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If we keep going deeper into Ulgu, sooner or later we'll roll badly and pick up the Forgettable Face mark. At that point, the Dammerlichtreiter spell will be the only lasting version of Mathilde's face out there.
 
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I know that Mathilde is a fairly conspicuous grey wizard, but I still don't want to Codify a spell that would plaster Mathilde's face everywhere.

She's obviously capable of changing what she looks like, but it'd make basic Alys Schmidt level intrigue more difficult if our actual face becomes very well known.

It also just feels a bit too self-loving. Something Sigvald would do.
Strongly agreed.

I don't mind @Redshirt Army's idea of having her personal version of the spell look like her and then spending an action at some point in the future before codifying it to go hunt down another one to develop a new skin for, but then we'd be left with two Apparitions with non-matching appearances unless we spend another action to reskin and retrain the second one, which hurts my soul a little, and of course we've been told that controlling two Apparitions is twice as hard as using one. So I think I'd rather just do it right the first time.

Mounted Wraith might spook people, but the point has been made that wizards do a lot of spooky things already and looking like a hexwraith probably isn't a big deal because it is provably not a hexwraith. For non-spooky options, Winged Lancer seems great.
 
Wait a minute, fhe red riders are centaurs so we can probably choose dragon ogre shaggoths or Zoats (assuming mathilde learns about them) right?
 
I personally like the idea of more dramatically changing the shape of the Rider into something that's useful for a larger variety of environments. A horse&rider shape isn't exactly suited for every environment, is it? (EDIT: i will admit i know extremely little about cavalry)

By the way, for something like a cat or dragon shape or whatever, wouldn't a tail count towards the 6 limb limit?
EDIT: Apparently, it does not because the Rider in Red's horse has a tail.
 
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I know that Mathilde is a fairly conspicuous grey wizard, but I still don't want to Codify a spell that would plaster Mathilde's face everywhere.

She's obviously capable of changing what she looks like, but it'd make basic Alys Schmidt level intrigue more difficult if our actual face becomes very well known.

It also just feels a bit too self-loving. Something Sigvald would do.

Remember this is likely to be battle magic. Her face won't be everywhere. Only at important enough battles that it's worth a Grey Battle Wizard or Lord Magister showing up to.

Another thought on the form. Having a spell that creates some type of mounted rider, whether a Marhiode or not, seems to fit with Rite of Way. Both seem designed to work well with cavalry forces. It'd be erroneous, but might make people who aren't read in on her activities get completely the wrong idea about what she's been up to.

Hmm. With the clarification about how hard reskinning is likely to be, I'm swinging away from the Mathilde idea, since we'd want something that works for both Mathilde and other wizards. I'm back with Pickle on supporting the ringwraith look again.

I posted this above; but I think that being shaped like Mathilde generally makes the spell no less useful for other Grey Wizards, and occasionally makes it more useful, while making it much more useful for Mathilde.

It's neutral to marginally beneficial to them, and significantly beneficial to her, so overall the Mathilde option seems superior.

Also, if we bind a second Rider, we can make that one look like a generic knight, and share both versions of the binding.
 
I don't really understand what drawbacks people see with the Mathilde version for other casters - and it'd have to be a decently sized drawback to outweigh the utility it would bring for Mathilde, personally.

Assuming we even can codify it for others to use, which I don't think is guaranteed? Or is that part of the benefits of using the Gold Order's notes?
 
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By the way, for something like a cat or dragon shape or whatever, wouldn't a tail count towards the 6 limb limit?
The Red Rider's horse should have a tail, and it doesn't seem to count as a limb, so probably not.

As for the vote, wraiths or lancers for me. The former are what I've been wanting all this time, the latter are a suggestion of mine.

For the seviroscope, and it's so cool to see this finally becoming a thing, I lean towards auditory.
 
[ ] Other (Ranald on a Giant Cat)
I have to speak against this, not because it's heretical, but because it's a bad idea to have showing one's alligance to Ranald be inherent to casting the spell. How about:

[ ] Other (A handsome man with an winsom smile and knowing glint in his eye, yet for all that a hard to describe face, with a green cloak with some subtle cross-stitching. On a Giant Cat)

Or:

[ ] Other (Giant Cat [Maybe extra "tails" if we have to give it six limbs] )

Edit: The limb-tails could be pehensile and wield swords.

Or guns?

Or gunblades?
 
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I think something like a "Empire knight" ((or the original Nazgul look, which is cool)) would be better for subterfuge or distractions -- by other Grey Wizards I mean -- than a Mathilde clone.

Because if the Red Rider looks like a generic Knight, than people might not necessarily recognize them as an Apparition or as a Battlemagic Spell. Or, that is, if somebody hears about a knight that showed up in the presence of a Grey Wizard, well, that's less obvious than if a singular looking and specific being kept showing up around Grey Wizards. Too identifiable, basically.

Because if all the Grey College's battlemagics start summoning copies of Mathilde? Well it's a dead giveaway isn't it? People will catch on to the fact of "Oh hey, it's a magic spell of some sort."

Whereas if a mysterious Knight appears, kicks ass, and disappears? You can still plausibly have deniability about what just happened. Or uncertainty about what just happened. "Oh a mounted knight killed a person" versus "A specific person, Mathilde, was seen doing that."

@Boney if we pick "Empire Knight" could we make them look like the Knights of Judgment?

Because of the connection between that Knightly Order and the Grey Order?

In fact, making them look like Knights of Judgment might allow for even more obfuscation; it will allow for confusion as to whether any given Knight of Judgment called up by a Grey Wizard is an actual knight, or a magic knight.

People will think of the story "The Grey College can call upon the Knights of Judgment" and they will not know if it means that the Grey College has ties with a Knightly Order, or if they can summon magic knights, or both.

In short, I think it's a way better bit of distraction and plausible deniability for the Grey Order, than would having Mathilde showing up everywhere.

So: that's my suggestion for Apparition appearance.

Knights of Judgment.

The Knightly Order that the Grey College has some sort of dealings with but nobody knows the full story of what or why.

And now, there will be even more obfuscation and myth and legend added to that story. It's perfect!
 
I don't really understand what drawbacks people see with the Mathilde version for other casters - and it'd have to be a decently sized drawback to outweigh the utility it would bring for Mathilde, personally.

Assuming we even can codify it for others to use, which I don't think is guaranteed? Or is that part of the benefits of using the Gold Order's notes?

I just find it a bit weird and uncomfortable that we'd be giving other wizards a spell that summons something that looks like Mathlide. If Mathilde really needs a decoy, she can cast illusion.
 
The problem with the Hexwraith idea, I fear, isn't that regular civilians are scared, but that people in the know are scared. This is how you get witch hunters and the Greys looking into you. And remember, this is legally dubious magic, as the Golds didn't want credit. I'd be worried about sending off demon messages.

But on the other hands, Hexwraiths aren't evil. They are anti-necromancy things sent by Morr. The people in the know might know that as well. But then they are enslaved by necromancers, so...
 
And if you still want to use this spell as a distraction for Mathilde? Just have Mathilde cast doppelganger and take on the appearance of the Red Rider. Bam. It's that simple.

Now nobody will be able to tell the difference between Mathilde and the Apparition. All for the simple usage of a Doppelganger spell.
 
I understand why everyone feels that the visual model would be better for Kragg's use, but I don't necessarily agree.

The auditory model requires more patience to use, but we're talking about an ancient dwarf here. The embodiment of patience, by any measure. Moreover, it is more able to detect changes in what's happening. Which feels to me like it matches better with Kragg's existing understanding of the winds, as shown in his perspective during the battle of Karag Nar.
Also, what if some upper tier runes are dynamic in their shape? This would make perceiving those much easier.

Also important is the ease of manufacturing. Dwarves could produce this in large quantities, giving maybe even apprentices access to it as a teaching tool. It could be helpful for the Runkit of Karak Vlag, who are developing their own renewed understanding of Runesmithing.


I hope I'm not saying something someone else already said, because I can not theorize and keep up with the thread at the same time.
 
It also strikes me as odd that this doesn't already exist if magically attuned metal is the only necessity. I remember from that Kragg interlude forever ago that he very much is an expert of the winds on a theoretical level. What stopped Runesmiths from inventing this already?

Infusing materials with Winds is one of the foundational principles of Alchemy and a specialty of the Gold Order, and weird-ass hydraulic music organs are a special interest of the Light Order. The ideas Mathilde and Egrimm came up with are only this apparent to them because of their backgrounds.

Wait a minute, fhe red riders are centaurs so we can probably choose dragon ogre shaggoths or Zoats (assuming mathilde learns about them) right?

Those are possible.

By the way, for something like a cat or dragon shape or whatever, wouldn't a tail count towards the 6 limb limit?

No, the Rider in Red already has a tail that can be adapted into a new sort of tail if necessary.

Just confirming, is what I said above right? If we bound a second rider could we give it a different skin?

You could, but it would require another action to invent an entirely new skin-binding combination.

@Boney if we pick "Empire Knight" could we make them look like the Knights of Judgment?

The 'Conventional Empire' option is for a generic Knight from no particular Order, but you could write in the Knights of Judgement.
 
It should be noted that the Wraith look does have a side benefit that people aren't considering, namely the fear it induces can also help us as it piggybacks on the pre-existing fear of them which should help improve the terror aspect of things for the spell.

Plus them looking like Wraiths also adds a nice bit of deniability to using the spell as you can use them to kill someone and place the blame on Hexwraiths or something like that.
 
I just find it a bit weird and uncomfortable that we'd be giving other wizards a spell that summons something that looks like Mathlide. If Mathilde really needs a decoy, she can cast illusion.
I don't really get why that's a problem to be honest, it's a hostile warp entity you throw at your enemies. But ok.

An illusion is not nearly as useful as a Rider when we want to Smoke and Mirrors out of a bad spot. An illusion keeps the enemy there fighting "Mathilde" for as long as the swing of a sword, where the Rider will keep it there for as long as the fight lasts. We've had a few exfiltrations where that would have been really useful.
 
@Boney would it be reasonable to say that by using the Wraith look the fear the resulting spell would have in our enemies will be increased due to the preexisting reputation of the Hexwraiths?
 
But on the other hands, Hexwraiths aren't evil. They are anti-necromancy things sent by Morr. The people in the know might know that as well. But then they are enslaved by necromancers, so...

Oh, I didn't actually know that. That's kinda cool, and feeds into Mathilde's whole "turning dark magic into not-dark magic" thing.

Actually, now I'm wondering if actual Hexwraiths are a type of apparition that targets necromancers, and are bound in a similar way?
 
I don't think there's any real problem with "owning" a Hexwraith, even if that was what we were doing. So long as it wasn't done with necromancy. At worst the Amethyst College turn up, take one look at its bindings and say "That's Ulgu, not Shyish. It's not necromancy."

The misdirection actually points them further away from it being an Apparition, which would be more problematic to explain than a Hexwraith.
 
The 'Conventional Empire' option is for a generic Knight from no particular Order, but you could write in the Knights of Judgement.
I haven't found anything about them aside from the fact that they helped the Grey Order that one time, how do they actually look like? How heavily armored are they, and what kind of weapons do they carry?
 
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