Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Knights of Judgment.
That's got the same problem as the Mathilde/grey wizard idea of bad PR if it gets loose. We don't want stories of the Grey Order's knights teamkilling.

All in all, I think we should avoid any sort of skin that makes the apparition look tame or normal. It should look dangerous so that when one of them slips its leash, it going on a rampage is a plausible result, just like with the golden hounds. It's implausible for Mathilde or a generic grey wizard or a normal knight to do that, so those ideas should be avoided. A spider, ringwraith, or other monstrous-looking creature is what we should aim for.
 
Thus probably isn't a good idea...but why not Abelhelm? Have the Hunter Count ride again against the enemies of the Empire?

We're pre-photography and television. No one will ever recognise it.

The only reason they might recognise the Mathilde option is that the Shadowsteed and Greatsword should be very distinctive at relatively long range.
 
What form should Mathilde impose on the Rider in Red? For most mount-and-rider designs this would be an aesthetic choice, but may influence how the spell is perceived by others. A dramatically different shape may have new advantages and drawbacks.

[ ] [RIDER] Mounted Wraiths
[ ] [RIDER] Mathilde on a Shadowsteed
[ ] [RIDER] Knight
-[ ] Conventional Empire
-[ ] Winter Wolves
-[ ] Demigryph Knight
-[ ] Winged Lancer
-[ ] Other (specify which)
[ ] [RIDER] Spider
[ ] [RIDER] Centaur
[ ] Other (write in)

[RIDER] Mathilde on a Shadowsteed

I really love the idea of being able to drop a decoy to fight and teleport away if necessary or have two Mathildes fighting and leave opponents unsure of which one to target. This makes the [Mathilde on a Shadowsteed] option really attractive.

However, as has been pointed out in many situations Mathilde can just throw down a doppelganger spell beforehand to change her appearance. That way as long as the steed part looks like a shadowsteed the decoy effect will still be effective. [Mathilde on a Shadowsteed] is thus only uniquely effective compared to other options in cases where Mathilde is ambushed and can't put up a doppelganger or is hit by a dispel and has her doppelganger illusion disrupted.

Of course the very same idea applies to any other wizard who would use the spell (they could doppelganger to turn themselves into Mathilde) or they can make modifications to the spell to change the appearance if they truly want to change it.

Either way the potential makes me strongly inclined to picking an option on a horse for the decoy ability. Winter Wolves though are attractive in their own way since you get a vicious bite attack which is probably more fearsome than a vicious horse bite? Although I guess you could give the horse fangs and such if you're custom designing it so potentially horses are just as good.



[ ] [RIDER] Mounted Wraiths

Hexwraiths are apparently not exclusively evil necromantic constructs.
Hexwraiths also known as Reaper Knights, are a type of wraith, ethereal spirits born from the depths of the Underworld, sent forth into the world of the living to hunt down those evil men who would dare to defy their fate and the will of the Death God.
Potentially necromancers will piss themselves if they see an unbound hexwraith coming for them and even screw up and try and use the wrong counter.
 
The Mathilde Rider does all that and also does vastly more though. Why be content with the bare minimum when we can potentially achieve vastly more with no effort?
Cause originally Red Rider won on the idea of expanding the arsenal of our college. Adding our face to it just makes it fucking weird. And re-skinning is dangerous and waste of AP.
Knight of Judgement, Hexwraith or Spider options do everything we set out to do when we went into apparition binding, and we can codify them without particular issues with our colledge.
 
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What about a Knight of Ulric riding a white wolf?

Could it be an in with the Cult of Ulric?
What did you inflict on our brother Knight that lets you call upon him in such a manner? What torments does he suffer, witch!?
---
I don't think the response will be good. Neutral, at the very best.
 
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On self aggrandization, this IS the same lady who spelled her name over all the colleges miscast cancel rooms...
Yeah, but... that's more of a prank than vainglory. Mathilde has eight letters, there are eight colleges, so it's a joke that you only notice if you compare all eight rooms and then twig to it.

"Everyone in my college, if they want to use my awesome new method that expands our combat arsenal, needs to do it with my face attached"... there's no subtlety or cleverness to it, there's no "a-ha!" moment of realization followed by a long-suffering groan, it's just gauche.
 
That's got the same problem as the Mathilde/grey wizard idea of bad PR if it gets loose. We don't want stories of the Grey Order's knights teamkilling.

All in all, I think we should avoid any sort of skin that makes the apparition look tame or normal. It should look dangerous so that when one of them slips its leash, it going on a rampage is a plausible result, just like with the golden hounds. It's implausible for Mathilde or a generic grey wizard or a normal knight to do that, so those ideas should be avoided. A spider, ringwraith, or other monstrous-looking creature is what we should aim for.

That massively, massively reduces the value of the spell. Having it able to be manifested in a city when we want to fight there; which has happened, or fight alongside other soldiers without scaring them off or them having no idea how they'd actually do it makes it much less useful.

The Mathilde option just has so many massive advantages going for it. Particularly as a miscast driving very temporarily wizards into a homicidal rage is actually a known thing.
Demigryph Knight is catlike enough to be a reference to Ranald while deniable enough to not be obvious, which of course just makes it more Ranaldian.

The Rider being a decoy that protects Mathidle while deceiving people that it is actually her is much more Ranaldian than any of the other options.

Not just then, as per word of Boney a lot of groups would be terrified of Hexwraiths which should allow us to add to the fear effect of the spell.

That's not what Boney said, I believe.
 
That doesn't work in many scenarios. We'll often specifically want enemies to think that the Rider is Lord Magister Mathilde Weber, a high priority target, so they'll chase or focus their attacks on the decoy. That's when we doppelgänger into a random other person or go invisible, with them distracted by the Rider so they don't notice or head in the wrong direction.

The rider being on a Shadowsteed also adds verisimilitude when summoning the Rider in a place a horse would usually have difficulty reaching.


Illusion requires the caster's concentration to control the illusion. That makes it vastly worse than the autonomous Rider which Mathilde can fire off and forget while she makes her escape or exploits the distraction to accomplish whatever other goal she has.

Also; the Rider being solid and having hands can do things that make it a much more convincing decoy, and can also do other things like cause physical damage on its way
Let's keep something in mind; this is a battlemagic spell.

This is not an "instant distraction" spell. This is not a good "make a distracting body double spell". This is not a spell you use when you want to sneak away and distract somebody; this is a spell you use when you want to send out a cavalry rider to kill a target.

So saying "we'll often want enemies to think it's Mathilde" is inaccurate, because we won't "often" use it at all, as it is battlemagic. And when we do use it, its primary usage will be to hunt down a target and kill it.

It can be used as a distraction or for confusion. But if you're doing that, or wanting that, then it's still not that great a distraction ultimately; because once they start fighting it, they'll notice it doesn't act like Mathilde, and if they stab it and it bleeds shadow or Aetheric Vitade instead of blood, or if it doesn't fight back with spells, or if its blade doesn't have the characteristics "screw everything I hit with this" effect of Branulhune? Or if it gets stabbed and disperses? Yeah, it's gonna be kind of a giveaway.

And if you wanted to use it as a distraction by placing it in a location and telling it to go off elsewhere rather than fighting, to lead people on a chase? Then you're using battlemagic to make a distraction instead of killing. In which case, maybe you would have been better off using Illusion to cast that; or using Doppelganger on yourself to avoid notice and sneak away.

There's also another possible issue here; namely, what if you did want to use a Rider in Red as a distraction... but you didn't want it to be mistaken for Mathilde?

Because that, too, is a possible viable use of an Apparition -- if you were going to use it for distractions or feints rather than to fight -- and which would work well if it had a weird or generic appearance, rather than a specific appearance of a specific person.

i.e. The ability to make it appear like Mathilde is kind of a very niche thing. If you're using a battlemagic spell as a distraction, it can probably work as a normal distraction too. You can also just be stealthy on your own, rather than using a tricky Apparition for it.

Making it look like Mathilde is mostly about being cheeky or wanting to do the Dammerlichtreiter legend, rather than about tactical utility, I feel like. It might be cool or neat, and that might be a reason for people to do it. But I think trying to sell it as "think of the common tactical applications" is wrong. Because that will not be a common tactical application.
 
Honestly why do we need the knight? Just turn the rider into a big cat, let's us give.some ranald themeling to the spell

[] enormous grey tabby cat
Needs six limbs (and two heads?), and the shape of the apparition informs what it can do in a fight, and a Knight-with-swords-on-a-cat is probably more desdly than a six legged cat, or a cat that is grabbing swords with its prehensile tails.

Probably.
 
It would be about the size of a horse. While that's not something most people would want to wrestle with, it wouldn't have the same effect that an adult Dragon appearing on a battlefield would have.

Is it be possible to get more Red Ridders and try to fuse/combine them together to increase their size and power?

That's what the Winter Wolves option is, they're the Ulrican Knights that founded Ulrikadrin.

Ups, sorry I didn't realize it was already there.
 
That massively, massively reduces the value of the spell. Having it able to be manifested in a city when we want to fight there; which has happened, or fight alongside other soldiers without scaring them off or them having no idea how they'd actually do it makes it much less useful.
The golden hounds are not massively, massively reduced in value because they look like dogs, and same thing if we make our apparition look similarly non-friendly.
 
So one thing that should be noted about the spell that might make the Wraith option more appealing, note this line from the update:
According to one school of thought, Apparitions are embodiments of the fears of the Wizards they prey upon.

Which could mean that they will take more easily to things that help generate that fear, which is something the Wraith appearance does. It uses a preexisting thing to up the fear generation aspect of the spell and thus will probably improve strength and stability as it plays more in with the Apparition's nature.
 
Why limit the appearance to something that actually exists? We could do a two tailed or six legged (insert animal) and not have to worry about associations with real things at all. I'm personally a far of a two tailed panther with bladed tails, or a two headed mini hydra.
 
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