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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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Hmm, can't smoke the Trollmen either, because we're the ones in an elevated position, and heat flows upward.

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The Fylgja solution to Hamingja loss also doesn't work for our friends. So we effectively have 5 rounds to work with (1 to get here, 1 to get back).
 
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I'm against murdering our neighbors innocent children because 'it might be interesting' and frankly pretty sure so is Halla and the Norse system in general. And that's a risk we're taking by collapsing this without knowing what's above it. Risking our neighbors lives by going off half-cocked is definitely odrengskapr (drengskapr explicitly includes proper preparation) and probably nid to boot.
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So, there's a thing which happens quite often in quest arguments where when we dislike option B, we can't just say "I prefer A, and B has some downsides", we have to take the most extreme version possible of doom? (Especially if the argument goes on.) We have no idea if collapsing the cave will even produce a crater (we know it will cause "unintended effects", that's the literal sum total of what we know); we have no idea whether anyone's land is above us; let alone a farm; let alone children. The Hading is not exactly densely populated.

Like, sure, I agree, if there were a knowable chance of kids being hurt, it would be wrong to do it, but it's not a calculable risk, it's a remote one specifically conjectured just for this argument. As it is, our last serious fight had sixty innocent people die as collateral damage because we apparently underestimated Horra's contingencies, and we didn't exactly beat ourselves up over it and suffered no social censure whatsoever. Maybe my response before was a bit flippant, but this feels a tad overblown, you know?

Anyway:

[X] Hold off on attacking, go home and grab Abjorn and the twins.

It feels like making the cave-in work would require something really contrived, and I'd prefer to just move on with bandwagon vote and have a big cool fight scene.
 
Imperial Fister said:
Clarification on the leaving your fylgja outside thing is that it doesn't completely solve the problem. Since you-the-fylgja is outside, the hamingja effects are stopped, however, because you-the-human are still underground, it isn't actually stopped, just slowed.
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Yeah, I figure we go outside, set this up and then go to the Troll-Men cavern real quick and finish them off ASAP and we can manage it within the increased timetable.

Sol Zagato said:
As long as we can explain to our trusty swartelf scout what we're up to.
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We should be able to mime getting more forces, he'll understand that well enough (we can point at all of us and count us off on our fingers then point upward and count off three more fingers, for example).

Skippy said:
So, there's a thing which happens quite often in quest arguments where when we dislike option B, we can't just say "I prefer A, and B has some downsides", we have to take the most extreme version possible of doom? (Especially if the argument goes on.) We have no idea if collapsing the cave will even produce a crater (we know it will cause "unintended effects", that's the literal sum total of what we know); we have no idea whether anyone's land is above us; let alone a farm; let alone children. The Hading is not exactly densely populated.
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I mean, you're the one who brought up it not mattering if we killed people. I wasn't saying that it was likely, just that it was really bad if we did. And that I'd thus prefer not to risk it.
 
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I mean, you're the one who brought up it not mattering if we killed people. I wasn't saying that it was likely, just that it was really bad if it did. And that I'd thus prefer not to risk it.
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Well, the point I was trying to make was more "this might cause a feud if someone decides to be unreasonable about it and won't accept compensation" isn't a good reason in my view to stop us from doing things. Feuds by unreasonable assholes are sort of an occupational hazard of being a Viking cultivator, I think, and dealing with them appropriately is broadly good for our reputation. But yeah, apologies for any miscommunication.
 
Skippy said:
Well, the point I was trying to make was more "this might cause a feud if someone decides to be unreasonable about it and won't accept compensation" isn't a good reason in my view to stop us from doing things. Feuds by unreasonable assholes are sort of an occupational hazard of being a Viking cultivator, I think, and dealing with them appropriately is broadly good for our reputation. But yeah, apologies for any miscommunication.
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I mean, depends who the feud is with. A lot of the valley are related to each other (see: Horra being related to half of them). If we killed any of them through negligence we'd have a problem. And I don't think them being upset if someone died would actually be unreasonable...we don't need to collapse this cavern to kill the Troll-Men, so it being negligence isn't crazy talk.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I mean, depends who the feud is with. A lot of the valley are related to each other (see: Horra being related to half of them). If we killed any of them through negligence we'd have a problem. And I don't think them being upset if someone died would actually be unreasonable...we don't need to collapse this cavern to kill the Troll-Men, so it being negligence isn't crazy talk.
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Well, sure, but I guess I didn't (and still don't) consider someone being killed to be really very likely in the first place, which coloured my resoonse. (Probably we'd offer weregild, and if they refused that for a unintentional death, yeah, I think that counts as unreasonable.) But also to be clear, the original scenario I was responding to posited one of our neighbours launching a feud over property damage, or at least that was my reading of it.
 
Imperial Fister said:
He folds his arms, his weapons sheathed at his side. "Is this another troll situation?"

That grabs Eric's attention. "'Troll situation'?"
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This is just a Halla thing now.

Talking knights into giving up loot.
Sending a troll on a suicide mission.
Convincing Svartalfar to help.

Eric: You know, while we were killing the Trollmen, we met some Svartalfar. Stigmar spoke about 'another Troll situation' when Halla wanted to talk to them. Do you know what's up with that?
Sten: Oh yeah. While you were away, dad got cursed by a Scorn-Pole, and a Troll was guarding it. Halla like, just talked it into attacking Horra.
Eric: That's pretty.. un-Halla. Doesn't she really like fights?
Sten: I don't know! It's just a Halla thing now!
Stigmar: There was also that time on our raid when Halla just talked a knight into giving up all the loot without a fight. And it was a lot of loot.
Eric: Should I be calling Halla, Halla Silver-Tongue..?
 
[X] Hold off on attacking, go home and grab Abjorn and the twins.

I am glad the guide choice paid of so quickly.
And man... So much trollman is a big problem.

@Imperial Fister do we know where we are, relative to our farm and whats on above the trollman nest or in it's general direction? Also, you mentioned multiple piles.... How are they situated, in the cave?

For any fight, it's good to keep in mind that the trollman are piled up sleeping. Any fight that happens will heave people literally buried under trollman, live or dead.

Man, it would be so easy to call Steinarr and let him feed the fire, but he just got out of a decade long curse, he deserves the rest.

Shard said:
... Can we drown or suffocate them?
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Honestly, that's a really good idea.
Question is, can we do it quietly? Although...

Hm... IF mentioned the airflow isn't all that good, so burning out the air is possible.... And we can do that in battle too....
Oh! We have oil, right? Or can grab some on the surface....
I am thinking of doing a round above the piles, sprinkling/drenching the top of them with some oil and sending kindle spinners into the oiled spots on the way back to get the fire going. Then just fight until they suffocate.

As for how to get the giant trio here... either get them on stretchers or ask them to shapeshift soft bones or somethingso they can move easier.... If they can't shift into smaller form or something....
Perhaps something they can easily move on all four?
 
TheCount said:
I am glad the guide choice paid of so quickly.
And man... So much trollman is a big problem.
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Eh. We can make ourselves literally immune to their damage and so can most of our allies (everyone but Stigr and the Svartalf). At which point, based on Gabriel, we can likely kill quite a lot really quickly.

If we invested all 60 of our dice into 2Fold Kindle Spinners, we would, in a target rich environment, likely kill 360 Troll-Men ourselves (albeit at a cost of 240 Orthstirr). Our comrades probably can't manage quite that much without AoE, but anyone with 50 dice and some will can probably kill 50. At that rate we can get through them in two or three rounds, and that's assuming nobody else other than us has a way to kill them faster or a willingness to burn on Folded attacks (for 150 Orthstirr, anyone can spend 50 dice and make 50 2Fold Honed attacks and likely kill 100 Troll-Men).

Now, we need a way to protect our squishier friends while doing that, and clever plans or reducing the costs and time involved in this are very good (I do like idea of hitting one pile of them with a boulder-missile), but when you get right down to it this is more extermination than fight even with 1000 of them.

The threat here is taking too long in the dark and having our luck turn sour, which is why we need to head back up, take in some sunshine and leave our fylgja, then head back down and do this efficiently.
 
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[X] Hold off on attacking, go home and grab Abjorn and the twins.

This looks like the best idea to me. Collapsing the cave seems to risky, we don't know what is over the cave and we could accidently destroy somebody farm or even Asvir itself if we are unlucky.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Eh. We can make ourselves literally immune to their damage and so can most of our allies (everyone but Stigr and the Svartalf). At which point, based on Gabriel, we can likely kill quite a lot really quickly.
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My main concern, as I said in the post is getting literally buried in the fight.
I know we can kill them, and though skin twice is most likely enough to null any damage, but how many trollman can pile up on our friends before they can't move from the sheer mass around them?
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Eh. We can make ourselves literally immune to their damage and so can most of our allies (everyone but Stigr and the Svartalf). At which point, based on Gabriel, we can likely kill quite a lot really quickly.

If we invested all 60 of our dice into 2Fold Kindle Spinners, we would, in a target rich environment, likely kill 360 Troll-Men ourselves (albeit at a cost of 240 Orthstirr). Our comrades probably can't manage quite that much without AoE, but anyone with 50 dice and some will can probably kill 50. At that rate we can get through them in two or three rounds, and that's assuming nobody else other than us has a way to kill them faster or a willingness to burn on Folded attacks (for 150 Orthstirr, anyone can spend 50 dice and make 50 2Fold Honed attacks and likely kill 100 Troll-Men).

Now, we need a way to protect our squishier friends while doing that, and clever plans or reducing the costs and time involved in this are very good (I do like idea of hitting one pile of them with a boulder-missile), but when you get right down to it this is more extermination than fight even with 1000 of them.

The threat here is taking too long in the dark and having our luck turn sour, which is why we need to head back up, take in some sunshine and leave our fylgja, then head back down and do this efficiently.
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There's 800-3200 Trollmen according to Frenzy.

OTOH

Kill a large chunk of the enemy, withdraw, return, rekill..

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Can we go back home, find a metric ton of Boulders, store with our soulscape and Fylgja, return, close every entrance by stopping each with a Boulder, then suffocate all the trollmen via a lot of fire?

If we're tossing a bajillion kindlespinners around, do we need to worry about the smoke suffocating ourselves?

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I dunno I just feel like 'massive amounts of enemies in an enclosed area' feels like the sort of thing where you figure out a clever solution that explains why shoving a ton of people into a cramped enclosed area is actually really bad military tactics.
 
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Figured out a plan, one sec.

[X] Attack now, with the element of surprise!
-[X] Halla moves in first and sets up to flank from above, when in position, the main party baits out the Troll Men, when they all bunch up to attack the main party, bombard them with the Bomb Boulders and then go to town with Explosive Charms and Kindle Spinners.

Basically, the real issue is that our Bomb Boulders can kill a shit-ton of them, but they're too spread out to kill all of them.

However, we know their plan. "Charge at the attackers in one solid mass and try to drown you in their blood."

Which means they're all going to clump up at the choke point, which means we can actually kill them by the army with our Bomb Boulders and Explosive Charms, which both excel at Area of Effect.

Chances are good in light of this that we can literally kill 2 to three thousand in the time we've got left. They're literally too dumb to scatter and too dumb to flank us, and we have a choke-point, and so weak that an attack capable of crippling a heavily armored hyper murder elephant monster is going to likely kill close to a thousand a piece, sespecially since they're going to be bunched up in a single mass. Even if we do have to go into overtime a bit, we have a Guide that can get us topside again, and Hamingja doesn't start actively falling until your Luck's been sour for a bit.
 
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@DeadmanwalkingXI , when are we planning to introduce our children to the potebtial playmates?
@Imperial Fister , whats the impression of the greater community on the Asvir side of the Hading about Halla and Abjorn? What do they think of us? Like do we even interact with the community much? We only seem to make one yearly trip to Asvir, and we have sent Abjorn only one time to Asvir to buy some animals.
Also, I know this might sound like nagging, but when are we getting Steinarr's POV interlude about his thoughts on all the life-threatening encounters and bullshit that Halla has been involved in since she was 13 or 14?
Edit: apparently I tagged someone who has never interacted with this thread, so I removed their name.
 
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[X] Attack now, with the element of surprise!
-[X] Halla moves in first and sets up to flank from above, when in position, the main party baits out the Troll Men, when they all bunch up to attack the main party, bombard them with the Bomb Boulders and then go to town with Explosive Charms and Kindle Spinners. CONVERT SHAPESHIFT: Convert Dense Muscles to Thick Skin , advise Eric and Stigmar to also strengthen their defenses so we can focus on the offense, Remove our mail and store it in our Owl because it's just going to get fucked up for nothing here if we take hits. Give the frontline a helping of our Fireproof Oil so we can risk going danger-close without hurting them over much. (Total of 3 expended), also, eat a Hearthroot Berry to increase our killing power (Last one for the year eaten)

[X] Plan: Artillery is King of the Battlefield
-[X] 2 4x Honed Chuck Tricks with the Bomb Boulders empowered with Odr (1d6 + 4d6 (Hone) +1d6 (Skyfire)+ 4 (Frenzy), 9 Orthstirr + 1 Odr each (Orthstirr paid with Sagaseeker's pool), When all explosives are expended, use all remaining dice on 2-fold Kindle-Spinners (A total of 58 sets of two Kindle-Spinners, 1d6 + 6d6 (Ignition), + 1d6 (Skyfire), 4 Orthstirr each (Total cost of 232 Orthstirr).
-[X] Use Halting-Vortex on any Troll-Men who look like they might actually be able to hurt us through our DR (4 Orthstirr each), otherwise, ignore them, they can't hurt us!
-[X] Ember-Winged Cloak as required to get into position and otherwise maximize our kill-per-attack ratio. (6 Orthstirr each)
-[X] Gabriel, Eric, and Stigmar serve as the frontline, as they're tough enough to be mostly immune to the Troll-Men's attacks between Shapeshifts and Armor, Halla flanks from above and bombards the depth of the tide when they all clump up to attack the frontline with her explosives first, as Odr should amplify their effects dramatically, the cave has been described as big enough that the blasts shouldn't significantly disrupt its integrity, especially when it has to explode through the tide of Troll-Men first! When we run out of bombs, shift to Kindle-Spinner strafing runs until they die or the Round ticks over. Tap Aspects as required to sustain, though chances are good they'll all be dead before we run out of gas. Try to avoid catching our allies in the crossfire if possible, but with them tanked up and with Hearthroot Oil as defenses, they'll likely be okay for all but direct flamethrower hits.

Basically, we should be able to kill one to two thousand with Halla alone in the space of a single round. Especially if we can go full Sicko Mode on attacks because we're immune to their counters. The Kindle-Spinners alone should account for 155-ish kills. And those are relatively small potatoes compared to the actual honest to god High Explosive Naval Rifle shells and then cannonfire we're packing in our arsenal.

Their strategy is literally "Mindlessly charge in and drown the targets in their own blood", that's normally a great plan, but they'll get bottlenecked by our front line and then they'll all be bunched up for maximum effect by our high explosives. Halla is likely to score upwards of 2,000 kills between everything, possibly closer to 3,000 depending on how it all shakes out.

But even a contact detonation was strong enough to stun a kaiju sized, heavily reinforced necromantic abomination and set it up for the wombo-combo that subsequently killed it. This is going to detonate in the midst of their formation.
 
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Solar Saiyan said:
@Alratan,
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I'm about 99% certain that this person has never interacted with this thread. Are you talking about Alectai?
Shard said:
There's 800-3200 Trollmen according to Frenzy.
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800–2400
Solar Saiyan said:
@Imperial Fister , whats the impression of the greater community on the Asvir side of the Hading about Halla and Abjorn? What do they think of us? Like do we even interact with the community much? We only seem to make one yearly trip to Asvir, and we have sent Abjorn only one time to Asvir to buy some animals.
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Generous and honorable, if plagued by the borderline arrogance of the young.
Solar Saiyan said:
Also, I know this might sound like nagging, but when are we getting Steinarr's POV interlude about his thoughts on all the life-threatening encounters and bullshit that Halla has been involved in since she was 13 or 14?
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When he's dead, so I can do it all in one go
 
Imperial Fister said:
I'm about 99% certain that this person has never interacted with this thread. Are you talking about Alectai?

800–2400

Generous and honorable, if plagued by the borderline arrogance of the young.

When he's dead, so I can do it all in one go
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That aside, what kind of kill rate would we expect from a Bomb Boulder going off right in the middle of literally all of them? We know that the Bomb Boulder does dummy high damage to the ballpark of 26 to something that gets hit dead-on but how does that translate to its AoE?

Consequently, what kind of kill rate would we expect from an Infused standard bomb charm?
 
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Any thoughts about "take a sunlight breather, then set up a runebased trap fueled from the blood of the troll-men we are about to kill (initialized with some paint or our blood or a piece of Odr), then do the fight so that the troll-men pass over the trap and make sure their blood is spilled"?


On the bomboulder:
Good back up solution, but if we can avoid it now then we can use it in future situations without it getting old (need to conserve the available screentime for such tricks, if we use it too often it gets boring)
And are we sure that it doesn't cause a cave in / hurt us badly?
 
[X] Alectai


This plan avoids the Troll-Men having left by the time we've finished getting our ducks in a row; a potential snag with any plan that involves leaving and coming back.

It also involves Halla flying above the field of battle wielding fire like a winged goddess of war, which both is extremely cool, and likely to gain us a lot more Orthstirr.
 
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