Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, and if we don't kill them all because a bunch fucked off to go hunting, then we're doing this all over again a season later.
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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
Yeah, and if we don't kill them all because a bunch fucked off to go hunting, then we're doing this all over again a season later.
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- He/Him
Ah! Check. I'm still against that because of the 'insulting' thing but it makes a lot of sense otherwise.
I mean, that's always a risk even if we attack them now. Some of them are certainly off hunting at any time...we're hopeful that the ones we and the svartalfar killed were the only ones, but that's a hope, it shouldn't be an expectation. If any significant number go out between now and when we attack, we'll likely be able to tell, having seen them at this point, and can try and hunt them down (or make a deal for the svartalfar to do it...we can pay in food for them to prioritize it).
Additionally, whether that happens is probably a Hamingja roll (since it's basically pure luck)...if we go up into the sunlight, our luck should be pretty good for that roll.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Come on pal, you're basically telling me now that we're wasting our time here.
Consider too that we can't really communicate well with our guide, if we all go topside, do you really think he's going to think we're just "Going to get a breather before coming back with more firepower?" Or do you think he's going to assume we feel too weak to handle this and fuck off?
And if we send someone up to get reinforcements, we're spending a full round to do that where everyone else is ticking down the Counter.
Just kill them, we have the ability to potentially kill the entire pack in a single combat round, and our Hamingja doesn't start becoming sour for two full rounds. Even when it does, I sincerely doubt it's going to instantly go from "Perfectly fine" to "INSTANT PERMANENT LOSS AND HORRIBLE CONSEQUENCES." Troll-Men would be straight up invincible if people couldn't even hunt them down without their Luck going sour.
It'll be easier though if we can get a ballpark of what to expect from our bombs. But IF seems a bit busy today to answer that.
Consider too that we can't really communicate well with our guide, if we all go topside, do you really think he's going to think we're just "Going to get a breather before coming back with more firepower?" Or do you think he's going to assume we feel too weak to handle this and fuck off?
And if we send someone up to get reinforcements, we're spending a full round to do that where everyone else is ticking down the Counter.
Just kill them, we have the ability to potentially kill the entire pack in a single combat round, and our Hamingja doesn't start becoming sour for two full rounds. Even when it does, I sincerely doubt it's going to instantly go from "Perfectly fine" to "INSTANT PERMANENT LOSS AND HORRIBLE CONSEQUENCES." Troll-Men would be straight up invincible if people couldn't even hunt them down without their Luck going sour.
It'll be easier though if we can get a ballpark of what to expect from our bombs. But IF seems a bit busy today to answer that.
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- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Uh, not really? I don't see why we can just attack them while someone goes up top to get help. It makes sense if it's Stigr too, as I honestly don't think he'd be able to contribute much, on account of having to actually look out for himself unlike the rest of us. I mean, yeah, he could snipe with his bow, but I honestly think that if we're going to attack these guys now, it'd be more worthwhile of Stigr's time to go get backup.
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- He/Him
Killing 80-90% of them is still useful...as we saw with the svartalfar, they do have natural enemies down here and will not inherently always grow back to their previous strength.
In fact, while the svartalfar explicitly lack the manpower to kill all of them without risk (presumably, unlike us, they don't have a way to be invulnerable to them), they have just demonstrated they can kill smaller numbers quite readily (300 with minimal issues, remember). Us killing 90% and hiring the svartalfar to play clean-up seems very doable.
But we were never gonna kill 100% of the Troll-Men under the Hading, which means a repeat is always possible. The idea is to cull them and get their numbers down so there isn't a giant cluster right under us.
I literally came up with a way to mime this and posted it (we count all of us, pointing at us and showing him fingers, then point upwards and count three more fingers, then show the full number of fingers). That's honestly hard to misinterpret. We'd also bring him with us most of the way, not leave him here with the Troll-Men, obviously.
Right, I'm definitely against that. I'd pick attacking them now over that plan, I agree. I'm also not sure of the 'send for help while attacking' plan...I'm pretty sure that's pointless as getting help will take longer than the battle.
I mean, there's a reason they haven't been exterminated yet. And we haven't taken every precaution we could or gotten here as quickly as possible. Also, we've been told Hamingja inverts making high Hamingja people much more susceptible to this than low Hamingja people. The average Hamingja is 5-7. We have a 16. The consequences of Hamingja inverting are much worse for us than for most people. A lot of people might be fine with one or two inverted Hamingja rolls...that's a lot less true of us.
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I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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- He/They
For your charms? Probably a decently big deal. Three frag grenades are better than one
Probably, oh, several hundred. Easily three or four hundred. You can probably take out 15-30 with an odr-powered charm
Very. There are certain paths the fylgjur can walk that loosen up the restrictions.
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Since there's a lot of discussion going on, I might extend the voting period out a bit. Also because you're only going to get one update today as I posses only a single can of v8 so I might as well give you all the time you need.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I guess those depend on the quality of the rolls then? How many kills are made?
"Easily three or four hundred" implies we could more difficultly get higher numbers, right?
Yeah, honestly, we're looking at potentially 1000+ kills in the first round for Halla here depending on how big a deal the Fire Berry does for our Kindle-Spinner spam, that automatically stackwipes their more optimistic numbers and deals horrifying damage to the more pessimistic ones right there. The Odr empowered Charms then likely account for anywhere from another 100 to 200 or so, and then Halla's kindle-spinner spam + the Fire Berry does potentially up to 500 more (If each Kindle-Spinner kills 3 by default, and we throw 102 of them, even if each Kindle-Spinner only kills one more, that's still another 400+ kills). That's enough to kill even a 'Double their number' estimate from Halla's contribution alone, and we can likely mop up even the 'Triple their number' estimate afterwards in the follow up round before our luck turns sour.
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How many can an Explosive Charm kill without the Odr?
I guess it almost doesn't matter from my perspective if it's in the single digits. Spending 1 Odr per 20 kills out of 2400 needed is just not worth the Odr. That's what, 140 kills at most for 7 Odr? Definitely not worth the price. Especially compared to the boulders (which net us five times the kills for less than 1/3 the price, or 15 times the kills per point of Odr).
I've never been against using the boulders in the eventual plan. I'm all for it, really. I just think taking a bit more time and getting a bit more backup doesn't hurt. We can probably do this in two rounds, sure, but we don't have to in order to succeed. It's a large expense (if actually burning Odr on normal scale Explosive Charms) and a risk that we just don't need to take.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I guess we can convert the Explosive Charms to more Folded Kindle-Spinners if that's your pain point to shift over. Costs a fair bit more but still gets us about the same amount of kills.
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It'd definitely help. 7 Odr is just a crapload of progression to give up for very minimal gains...28 Orthstirr (the cost of 7 2Fold Kindle Spinners) is almost infinitely more replaceable.
Isn't the thing with our Hamingja that it will apply a penalty to our luck which gets worse over time, not immediately flip into being negative luck?
Like correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought @Imperial Fister said that the "rolls count as reversed" thing happened after prolonged sunlight deprivation, on the order of days or something.
Like correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought @Imperial Fister said that the "rolls count as reversed" thing happened after prolonged sunlight deprivation, on the order of days or something.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Just to make sure, @Imperial Fister, how many boulders can we actually get away with using? You said it's fine if we don't over-use them, so would that translate to only one per scene? Or will you say if you think we're using them too much?
Also, it doesn't actually say we have a boulder in our fylgja.
From what I understand, we'd lose hamingja, not have it turned negative. Which is still pretty bad, considering that's training dice lost, among other things.
Also, it doesn't actually say we have a boulder in our fylgja.
From what I understand, we'd lose hamingja, not have it turned negative. Which is still pretty bad, considering that's training dice lost, among other things.
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I mean, he said 'bad stuff happens' in two more rounds. A minor penalty on a 16 die pool is not 'bad stuff happening'.
Adding two was in the turn plan, if they aren't there it's an error (though not a huge one).
It does not. Which is a large part of the reason we don't usually use it.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, I know we added some to our fylgja, I just wasn't aware how many we had because it didn't say.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Edit made then, that still gets us about the same amount of net kills, which should be in the ballpark of 1,300-1,600 depending on the results of the Bomb Boulders.
Kindle-Spinners should generate about 4-5 kills each and we're now throwing 116 of them. I don't even think they need to be rolled because it's mathematically impossible to miss, so that'll turn into...
(Maths)
Just around 500 kills. Then another 300-500 each from the Bomb Boulders, yeah, we're looking at close to 1,600 kills from Halla alone, which kills the optimistic numbers, the realistic numbers, and gets us within clean-up distance of the pessimistic numbers when we include the kill rate of the rest of the party, which I can imagine won't be far behind outside of the Bomb Boulders since everyone but Stigr can achieve immunity to damage, and we should have enough chaos and a strong enough front-line to keep them off him.
More importantly, this sends a message to the Svartalfar through our Guide that we shouldn't be trifled with, a show of force that even with a small number of companions we could absolutely kill a dummy number of Troll-Men very, very quickly. It should discourage them from starting shit with us later.
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- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Attack now, with the element of surprise!
-[X] Halla moves in first and sets up to flank from above, when in position, the main party baits out the Troll Men, when they all bunch up to attack the main party, bombard them with the Bomb Boulders and then go to town with Explosive Charms and Kindle Spinners. CONVERT SHAPESHIFT: Convert Dense Muscles to Thick Skin , advise Eric and Stigmar to also strengthen their defenses so we can focus on the offense, Remove our mail and store it in our Owl because it's just going to get fucked up for nothing here if we take hits. Give the frontline a helping of our Fireproof Oil so we can risk going danger-close without hurting them over much. (Total of 3 expended), also, eat a Hearthroot Berry to increase our killing power (Last one for the year eaten
[X] Plan: Artillery is King of the Battlefield
-[X] 2 2x Honed Chuck Tricks with the Bomb Boulders empowered with Odr (1d6 + 1d6 (Hone) +1d6 (Skyfire)+ 4 (Frenzy), 7 Orthstirr + 1 Odr each (Orthstirr paid with Sagaseeker's pool) ), 7x 2x Honed Chuck Tricks with the Exploding Charms (1d6 + 1d6 (Hone) + 1d6 (Skyfire) + 4 (Frenzy), 7 Orthstirr + 1 Odr Each (Orthstirr paid with Sagaseeker), then pay for it out of our own). When all explosives are expended, use all remaining dice on 2-fold Kindle-Spinners (A total of 51 sets of two Kindle-Spinners, 1d6 + 6d6 (Ignition), + 1d6 (Skyfire), 4 Orthstirr each (Total cost of 204 Orthstirr).
-[X] Use Halting-Vortex on any Troll-Men who look like they might actually be able to hurt us through our DR (4 Orthstirr each), otherwise, ignore them, they can't hurt us!
-[X] Ember-Winged Cloak as required to get into position and otherwise maximize our kill-per-attack ratio. (6 Orthstirr each)
-[X] Gabriel, Eric, and Stigmar serve as the frontline, as they're tough enough to be mostly immune to the Troll-Men's attacks between Shapeshifts and Armor, Halla flanks from above and bombards the depth of the tide when they all clump up to attack the frontline with her explosives first, as Odr should amplify their effects dramatically, the cave has been described as big enough that the blasts shouldn't significantly disrupt its integrity, especially when it has to explode through the tide of Troll-Men first! When we run out of bombs, shift to Kindle-Spinner strafing runs until they die or the Round ticks over. Tap Aspects as required to sustain, though chances are good they'll all be dead before we run out of gas. Try to avoid catching our allies in the crossfire if possible, but with them tanked up and with Hearthroot Oil as defenses, they'll likely be okay for all but direct flamethrower hits.
-[X] Halla moves in first and sets up to flank from above, when in position, the main party baits out the Troll Men, when they all bunch up to attack the main party, bombard them with the Bomb Boulders and then go to town with Explosive Charms and Kindle Spinners. CONVERT SHAPESHIFT: Convert Dense Muscles to Thick Skin , advise Eric and Stigmar to also strengthen their defenses so we can focus on the offense, Remove our mail and store it in our Owl because it's just going to get fucked up for nothing here if we take hits. Give the frontline a helping of our Fireproof Oil so we can risk going danger-close without hurting them over much. (Total of 3 expended), also, eat a Hearthroot Berry to increase our killing power (Last one for the year eaten
[X] Plan: Artillery is King of the Battlefield
-[X] 2 2x Honed Chuck Tricks with the Bomb Boulders empowered with Odr (1d6 + 1d6 (Hone) +1d6 (Skyfire)+ 4 (Frenzy), 7 Orthstirr + 1 Odr each (Orthstirr paid with Sagaseeker's pool) ), 7x 2x Honed Chuck Tricks with the Exploding Charms (1d6 + 1d6 (Hone) + 1d6 (Skyfire) + 4 (Frenzy), 7 Orthstirr + 1 Odr Each (Orthstirr paid with Sagaseeker), then pay for it out of our own). When all explosives are expended, use all remaining dice on 2-fold Kindle-Spinners (A total of 51 sets of two Kindle-Spinners, 1d6 + 6d6 (Ignition), + 1d6 (Skyfire), 4 Orthstirr each (Total cost of 204 Orthstirr).
-[X] Use Halting-Vortex on any Troll-Men who look like they might actually be able to hurt us through our DR (4 Orthstirr each), otherwise, ignore them, they can't hurt us!
-[X] Ember-Winged Cloak as required to get into position and otherwise maximize our kill-per-attack ratio. (6 Orthstirr each)
-[X] Gabriel, Eric, and Stigmar serve as the frontline, as they're tough enough to be mostly immune to the Troll-Men's attacks between Shapeshifts and Armor, Halla flanks from above and bombards the depth of the tide when they all clump up to attack the frontline with her explosives first, as Odr should amplify their effects dramatically, the cave has been described as big enough that the blasts shouldn't significantly disrupt its integrity, especially when it has to explode through the tide of Troll-Men first! When we run out of bombs, shift to Kindle-Spinner strafing runs until they die or the Round ticks over. Tap Aspects as required to sustain, though chances are good they'll all be dead before we run out of gas. Try to avoid catching our allies in the crossfire if possible, but with them tanked up and with Hearthroot Oil as defenses, they'll likely be okay for all but direct flamethrower hits.
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- He/Him
Actually, I just checked the sheet and it does in fact list 2 Boulders. So we're good there.
Cool.
Hmmm. Point. We'd only be able to do the boulders on the first round, though we could keep going Kindle Spinner on the second for a full 60 actions (and 240 Orthstirr...we'd be stoking Apects at that point).
Let's see, conservative numbers that's probably around 1200 the first turn (including our comrades doing, like, 100 between them...a lowball estimate) and then 600 the second. So minimum 1800. The average is probably more like 1600 on the first turn and then 700-ish on the second if we still assume only 100 per turn from our allies. That's probably a lowball though...
Alright, I'm still not 100% sold this is better than going back, but I'm convinced it's probably just as good (slightly higher risk, probably slightly higher reward).
[X] Hold off on attacking, go home and grab Abjorn and the twins.
[X] Attack now, with the element of surprise!
-[X] Halla moves in first and sets up to flank from above, when in position, the main party baits out the Troll Men, when they all bunch up to attack the main party, bombard them with the Bomb Boulders and then go to town with Explosive Charms and Kindle Spinners. CONVERT SHAPESHIFT: Convert Dense Muscles to Thick Skin , advise Eric and Stigmar to also strengthen their defenses so we can focus on the offense, Remove our mail and store it in our Owl because it's just going to get fucked up for nothing here if we take hits. Give the frontline a helping of our Fireproof Oil so we can risk going danger-close without hurting them over much. (Total of 3 expended), also, eat a Hearthroot Berry to increase our killing power (Last one for the year eaten)
[X] Plan: Artillery is King of the Battlefield
-[X] 2 4x Honed Chuck Tricks with the Bomb Boulders empowered with Odr (1d6 + 4d6 (Hone) +1d6 (Skyfire)+ 4 (Frenzy), 9 Orthstirr + 1 Odr each (Orthstirr paid with Sagaseeker's pool), When all explosives are expended, use all remaining dice on 2-fold Kindle-Spinners (A total of 58 sets of two Kindle-Spinners, 1d6 + 6d6 (Ignition), + 1d6 (Skyfire), 4 Orthstirr each (Total cost of 232 Orthstirr).
-[X] Use Halting-Vortex on any Troll-Men who look like they might actually be able to hurt us through our DR (4 Orthstirr each), otherwise, ignore them, they can't hurt us!
-[X] Ember-Winged Cloak as required to get into position and otherwise maximize our kill-per-attack ratio. (6 Orthstirr each)
-[X] Gabriel, Eric, and Stigmar serve as the frontline, as they're tough enough to be mostly immune to the Troll-Men's attacks between Shapeshifts and Armor, Halla flanks from above and bombards the depth of the tide when they all clump up to attack the frontline with her explosives first, as Odr should amplify their effects dramatically, the cave has been described as big enough that the blasts shouldn't significantly disrupt its integrity, especially when it has to explode through the tide of Troll-Men first! When we run out of bombs, shift to Kindle-Spinner strafing runs until they die or the Round ticks over. Tap Aspects as required to sustain, though chances are good they'll all be dead before we run out of gas. Try to avoid catching our allies in the crossfire if possible, but with them tanked up and with Hearthroot Oil as defenses, they'll likely be okay for all but direct flamethrower hits.
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- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
? Weird, when I crtrl+f'ed, I got nothing.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's under the Fylgja entry, so that needs to be open when you ctrl+f or you get nothing.
Also, FYI, your Artillery Plan vote is the outdated version and thus not being counted with the others.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
Correct. There's a lot of nuance in how positioning effects the results of things like this. Positioning is, of course, determined by dice.
3–9. The charms also have some shrapnel elements, which goes a long way for helping take out larger groups of enemies.
In situations like this, where it's a matter of dealing with an absolute horde of enemies, I'm a lot more lenient with your boulder usage. I don't want you to just throw bomb boulders at every threat, because that's boring to write and boring to read. I'll let you know if it's getting a bit much.
You don't exactly wear armor under your skin.
Reversed rolls start happening quickly, after a small handful of hours. Actual reduction is on a larger timescale. Still starts before the day is out, though, at a rate of about 1 hamingja a day spent underground.
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Since the discussion seems to have settled down a bit, I'll tentatively call the voting in an hour-and-a-half