Your assumption seems to be that we have to bribe them to get in on this, and that's not really what I expect.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Your assumption seems to be that we have to bribe them to get in on this, and that's not really what I expect.
I think they are going to try to milk this for as much as they can get, after all we came to them which means we want them on board. They might want that elf and dwarf lore enough to work for free otherwise, but why show that they they can extract some other favor out of us and/or the Grey College?
K von Carstein
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We will have access to the Library of Mourning and books written by the greatest archmages of all time. Enough is said.
The cost of having had the opportunity to be on on this and staying out, both in prestige and lost opportunities to gain knowledge, is very large. Thorek was his own thing; a very busy runelord who isn't as likely to learn anything directly applicable to runecraft. Colleges will have opportunities to pick up information that will make them more powerful.
The thing is they would not be talking to the elves or the dwarfs, they would be talking to the most junior LM in the Grey College, one Mathilde Weber who has staked a lot on making this work. Can she afford to turn around if they make a demand? In their place I would bet no.
Perhaps we should say "no" then as a lesson to the others.
That only works if we publicize it, which would itself be a blow to the project in that negotiations broke down.
Well, depending on the time scale we're operating on, if the Jades for example, say no and then we succeed, then it's a cudgel to use in subsequent projects.
Sure, the trouble is that success of it comes will arrive in years so we will not be showing off anyone anything soon.
I mean hell if we were expecting the Jades to roll over would we be trying to get Ranald to warp reality in order to help us along.
Well, the Gambler may also help with the level of their commitment, not just whether they send anyone.
An experienced Lord Magister who has spent time mastering using Waystones happening to finish their existing project just as we ask would be a lot more useful than a fresh Magister who has been taught be standard set of secrets taught to every Jade who has completed their journey.
One thing we've not discussed is recruiting organisations that give us contacts with other organisations or information on whether they're likely to know anything useful. Looking at who we potentially have on board:
Thorek may have good contacts with the other dwarven cults. I'm not sure if they'd retain any lore about Waystones, or whether they'd have been a purely Runesmith endeavour.
The Grey Lords presumably know an awful lot about what the various Houses, Wards, and Temples of Laurelorn know, and probably have a lot of influence on them,
The Jade College may retain contacts with the faction of druids that rejected Teclis and (I believe) continue to worship Ghyran as the Great Mother. Depending on the deep history of the Damsels, and whether the Belthani were present in what would become Bretonnia, and if so whether they were assimilated or annihilated, there may be some historic connections. There may also be connections with the Cult of Taal and Rhya.
The Light College apparently somehow acquired some Nehekharan knowledge. I don't think we know if this was pre or post-founding. If it's post, I wonder if it's possible that they made some form of clandestine contact with the Mortuary Cult. Having a back channel route to return looted grave goods would be very valuable for the Empire, and the Lights could presumably tell that the Liche-Priests aren't animated by Dhar, but by Divine magic. They'd probably never tell us though.
Anything else? The big contacts we want are with the Ice Witches and then the Damsels, I think. For the former, we might be able to leverage Karak Vlag, as I think there are strong relations between them and Kislev.
Yes.
Thanks, fixed.
They did.
[X] Plan: Slow build up of cards with hedgewise and research
-[X] MAX: Use kitting out his workshop as a pretext to get to know House Miriel and the local Cult of Vaul
-[X] EGRIMM: Attempt to bring the Light Order into the Waystone Project
-[X] JOHANN: Train with and study the freshly-attached golden arm
-[X] Furnish the research spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (specify how much: 2000gc for Laurelorn-grade)
-[X] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (The Nordlanders Haléthans Hedgewise)
--[X] The Gambler: Attempt to bring the Nordlanders Haléthans Hedgewise into the Waystone Project
-[X] Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic
-[X] EIC: Insert agents into Talabecland administration to start gathering their secrets
-[X] Seek official recognition of Kron-Azril-Ungol as an affiliated library of the Colleges of Magic
-[X] Write a paper: Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes
Well, you know what they say, never say never if you don't want you plan's to remain dreams so here it is now that I have energy.
It's basically Slow and steady Research plan but instead of the jade order, it's the hedgewise I've decided to recruit.
One of the main things i'm worried about by approaching the Jade order so early without many of the groups were planning on adding to our order such as hedgewise knowledge on waystones and icewitches weird modified god waystones and other unique groups is that they seemingly from what i've heard consider theirwaystone secrets to be some religous secrets and perhaps may seek to cencure/limit the amount of groups we may wish to recruit or spread info around to the colleges because of said religous reasons and secrets.
Perhaps paranoia on my part sure as other groups wish to maintain their secrets but at the very least we scanned out the brettonian and icewitches and they were willing to work and share secrets with us and hedgewise were a ??? mark under the grey college option as sponsor and from Kurtwise.
At the very least I do wish to approach the Jade college with more groups under our shoulder and I believe the hedgewise is a good step to doing that.
For those questioning what makes me think we have better chances with hedgewise now. Well first of all I'll say this that we won't get in trouble for collaberating with the hedgewise as were under Laurelorn law and the following
We can take our sweet ass time assessing the hedgewise of Nordland suitability to joining the colleges and perhaps in time even promise them more in the ability to establish themselves more so in Nordland now that the vacuum of mages from the colleges due to them being to now perceived to have sided with the Eonir and we can give them a blind eye to recruit and influence as they wish in Nordland to perhaps even rise to prominence as the Elementalists did if they manage to catch the eye of the elector count in the absence of the colleges in Nordland although big doubts on that lol.
Perhaps offer them a chance to have us negotiate with the elves to create a sort of safehaven for the hedgewise in Nordland to hide for a time if individual groups are displaced by the new overzelous Sigmarite groups moving into Nordland.
Perhaps give them economic opportunities in time if we can spin it in a way that's not against the articles as trying to preserve them for recruiting attempts into the colleges.
Either way, this is my plan to go for the hedge mages of Nordland and attempt to approach the jade mages later in more a position of strength with more groups bundled under us.
-[X] MAX: Use kitting out his workshop as a pretext to get to know House Miriel and the local Cult of Vaul
-[X] EGRIMM: Attempt to bring the Light Order into the Waystone Project
-[X] JOHANN: Train with and study the freshly-attached golden arm
-[X] Furnish the research spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (specify how much: 2000gc for Laurelorn-grade)
-[X] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (The Nordlanders Haléthans Hedgewise)
--[X] The Gambler: Attempt to bring the Nordlanders Haléthans Hedgewise into the Waystone Project
-[X] Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic
-[X] EIC: Insert agents into Talabecland administration to start gathering their secrets
-[X] Seek official recognition of Kron-Azril-Ungol as an affiliated library of the Colleges of Magic
-[X] Write a paper: Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes
Well, you know what they say, never say never if you don't want you plan's to remain dreams so here it is now that I have energy.
It's basically Slow and steady Research plan but instead of the jade order, it's the hedgewise I've decided to recruit.
One of the main things i'm worried about by approaching the Jade order so early without many of the groups were planning on adding to our order such as hedgewise knowledge on waystones and icewitches weird modified god waystones and other unique groups is that they seemingly from what i've heard consider theirwaystone secrets to be some religous secrets and perhaps may seek to cencure/limit the amount of groups we may wish to recruit or spread info around to the colleges because of said religous reasons and secrets.
Perhaps paranoia on my part sure as other groups wish to maintain their secrets but at the very least we scanned out the brettonian and icewitches and they were willing to work and share secrets with us and hedgewise were a ??? mark under the grey college option as sponsor and from Kurtwise.
At the very least I do wish to approach the Jade college with more groups under our shoulder and I believe the hedgewise is a good step to doing that.
For those questioning what makes me think we have better chances with hedgewise now. Well first of all I'll say this that we won't get in trouble for collaberating with the hedgewise as were under Laurelorn law and the following
We can take our sweet ass time assessing the hedgewise of Nordland suitability to joining the colleges and perhaps in time even promise them more in the ability to establish themselves more so in Nordland now that the vacuum of mages from the colleges due to them being to now perceived to have sided with the Eonir and we can give them a blind eye to recruit and influence as they wish in Nordland to perhaps even rise to prominence as the Elementalists did if they manage to catch the eye of the elector count in the absence of the colleges in Nordland although big doubts on that lol.
Perhaps offer them a chance to have us negotiate with the elves to create a sort of safehaven for the hedgewise in Nordland to hide for a time if individual groups are displaced by the new overzelous Sigmarite groups moving into Nordland.
Perhaps give them economic opportunities in time if we can spin it in a way that's not against the articles as trying to preserve them for recruiting attempts into the colleges.
Either way, this is my plan to go for the hedge mages of Nordland and attempt to approach the jade mages later in more a position of strength with more groups bundled under us.
Codex
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So I've been on a funk lately, but now that I got my medicine, I feel the urge to start writing omakes again. The problem is that I've hit a bit of a roadblock.
The character I'm writing about is the following from Tome of Salvation:
"Hans von Kleptor:
The most prominent member of the cult is a powerful priest named Hans von Kleptor. Von Kleptor began his career as a wandering priest of Ranald. At first, he was little more than a petty criminal, until he had a vision of Ranald, who told him to spread the word about his nobler deeds.
He made his way to Marienburg, and worked to expand the size and grandeur of the city's main temple to Ranald, the Gilt House. Handsome, charismatic, and charming to the extreme, many of Ranald's cultists believe he is the mortal son of Ranald himself. He pledges to increase the status of the cult within the Empire, pulling it out of the shadows into the light. However, his proclamations of freedom from tyranny and release from the power of nobles have drawn the wrath of those in power."
I'm making a few changes and developments to his character, but basically this is following on from the White Raven omake. I wanted to see what a prominent Ranaldite would be doing in the current Marienburg situation with the blockade happening, as I imagine the citizens are quite dissatisfied with the blockade. After all, Marienburg isn't just hurting the Empire, it's hurting itself, and those lower down the economic hierarchy are the ones who suffer the most in those situations. It seems like the kind of situation ripe for someone who worships the Protector in that manner.
Here's what I got from developing Kleptor: I'm making it so that he's the third child of a destitute minor noble who escaped his home life to find his own fortunes. He joined a minor Ranaldite gang in Altdorf as a petty criminal. He then recieved a vision from Ranald telling him to spread the word of his nobler deeds. This vision greatly changed him, inspiring a great degree of faith in him, so he left for Marienburg where the biggest church to Ranald was. He joined the church and climbed the ranks until he became High Priest, expanding the "Gilt House" considerably and increasing the influence of Ranald within the city to a great extent, to the point that they could be considered rivals to the Cult of Haendryk (Handrich).
I've outlined that Kleptor has increased the influence of Ranald the Dealer in the city, contributed heavily to charities (which the Cult of Handrich took as a challenge, resulting in constant charity one-upsmanship). Most prominently, Kleptor has strong ties to the Cult of Shallya and surprisingly, the Cult of Verena. Kleptor spends a lot of time reading books on economic theory and social hierarchies as well as the history of Tilea, and a wide range of topic to further his understanding. He is a patron of the Cult, but some members of the Cult take it a step further and cooperate with him in matters of justice. Many Verenans care more about what's right than what's in the law, and they're willing to overlook the "lesser evil" of Ranaldite crime to deal with true atrocities, particularly as the Ranaldites work to eradicate some of the nastier criminals.
I'm making it so Kleptor has a hand in many underworld operations like smuggling, fencing, evaluating, forgery, thievery (duh) and other non violent crimes. He is strictly against violence unless it is absolutely necessary. He also most likely supports revolutionary groups and gives sermons about the rights of the common citizen.
The question I have however, is what would be a realistic way to portray his efforts in Marienburg? I'm not fully familiar with the concepts that a freedom desiring educated individual from this time period is going to be familiar with. My current thought is that he's aware that there is almost always someone on top in societies, and his goal is simply to reduce the gap between those on top and those on the bottom, and make sure that those on top don't abuse their power for tyranny. My problem is, how would he go about it? I don't think he's averse to violent revolution, because he would consider it necessary, but he's patient enough to do things with a slow build up and he realises that lack of preparation can mess things up.
He knows of Remas successfully kicking out their Merchant Prince and becoming a Republic, but he also knows the same thing happened with Trantio until Marco Columbo came in and became their prince, and they've been a Principality ever since. He doesn't necessarily aim for a democratic republic in Marienburg, just a better situation.
TL;DR How would someone with the resources try to take advantage of the unrest caused by the current Marienburg blockade to make positive changes to the social order without excessive bloodshed?
The character I'm writing about is the following from Tome of Salvation:
"Hans von Kleptor:
The most prominent member of the cult is a powerful priest named Hans von Kleptor. Von Kleptor began his career as a wandering priest of Ranald. At first, he was little more than a petty criminal, until he had a vision of Ranald, who told him to spread the word about his nobler deeds.
He made his way to Marienburg, and worked to expand the size and grandeur of the city's main temple to Ranald, the Gilt House. Handsome, charismatic, and charming to the extreme, many of Ranald's cultists believe he is the mortal son of Ranald himself. He pledges to increase the status of the cult within the Empire, pulling it out of the shadows into the light. However, his proclamations of freedom from tyranny and release from the power of nobles have drawn the wrath of those in power."
I'm making a few changes and developments to his character, but basically this is following on from the White Raven omake. I wanted to see what a prominent Ranaldite would be doing in the current Marienburg situation with the blockade happening, as I imagine the citizens are quite dissatisfied with the blockade. After all, Marienburg isn't just hurting the Empire, it's hurting itself, and those lower down the economic hierarchy are the ones who suffer the most in those situations. It seems like the kind of situation ripe for someone who worships the Protector in that manner.
Here's what I got from developing Kleptor: I'm making it so that he's the third child of a destitute minor noble who escaped his home life to find his own fortunes. He joined a minor Ranaldite gang in Altdorf as a petty criminal. He then recieved a vision from Ranald telling him to spread the word of his nobler deeds. This vision greatly changed him, inspiring a great degree of faith in him, so he left for Marienburg where the biggest church to Ranald was. He joined the church and climbed the ranks until he became High Priest, expanding the "Gilt House" considerably and increasing the influence of Ranald within the city to a great extent, to the point that they could be considered rivals to the Cult of Haendryk (Handrich).
I've outlined that Kleptor has increased the influence of Ranald the Dealer in the city, contributed heavily to charities (which the Cult of Handrich took as a challenge, resulting in constant charity one-upsmanship). Most prominently, Kleptor has strong ties to the Cult of Shallya and surprisingly, the Cult of Verena. Kleptor spends a lot of time reading books on economic theory and social hierarchies as well as the history of Tilea, and a wide range of topic to further his understanding. He is a patron of the Cult, but some members of the Cult take it a step further and cooperate with him in matters of justice. Many Verenans care more about what's right than what's in the law, and they're willing to overlook the "lesser evil" of Ranaldite crime to deal with true atrocities, particularly as the Ranaldites work to eradicate some of the nastier criminals.
I'm making it so Kleptor has a hand in many underworld operations like smuggling, fencing, evaluating, forgery, thievery (duh) and other non violent crimes. He is strictly against violence unless it is absolutely necessary. He also most likely supports revolutionary groups and gives sermons about the rights of the common citizen.
The question I have however, is what would be a realistic way to portray his efforts in Marienburg? I'm not fully familiar with the concepts that a freedom desiring educated individual from this time period is going to be familiar with. My current thought is that he's aware that there is almost always someone on top in societies, and his goal is simply to reduce the gap between those on top and those on the bottom, and make sure that those on top don't abuse their power for tyranny. My problem is, how would he go about it? I don't think he's averse to violent revolution, because he would consider it necessary, but he's patient enough to do things with a slow build up and he realises that lack of preparation can mess things up.
He knows of Remas successfully kicking out their Merchant Prince and becoming a Republic, but he also knows the same thing happened with Trantio until Marco Columbo came in and became their prince, and they've been a Principality ever since. He doesn't necessarily aim for a democratic republic in Marienburg, just a better situation.
TL;DR How would someone with the resources try to take advantage of the unrest caused by the current Marienburg blockade to make positive changes to the social order without excessive bloodshed?
- Location
- Earth
What blockade? If Marienburg were to blockade the Empire, that would have immense economic effects. They're threatening one, but as far as we know they haven't taken direct action, only indirect ones.
- Location
- Germany
Pretty sure Marienburg is not doing the blockade?
I mean there's a lot of sabre-rattling and such, but if they were fully blocking the river there would be war. And we made sure it would be war with the backing of Barrak Varr.
Codex
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Well:
The way in which this is phrased indicates that they are currently "blocking in the wolfships". If Marienburg was not doing a blockade, it would be unbelievably easy to confirm that there's nothing going on and Liljiana wouldn't react that way. There needs to be a blockade for these words to make sense. If they were threatening it she wouldn't say it like that.
Codex
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Ah ok, I understand what happened now. I went through a quick binge of all the Marienburg sections after the Chamberlain meeting, and I tracked down the source of my confusion.
It's the classic situation where things get inflated in your head. Every EIC update mentions Marienburg banditry and interfering with trade and the Marienburg situation, so my memory started to conflate that with the blockade being a thing instead of just a threat. I do think they're imposing unreasonable taxes that could be seen as "blocking in the wolfships", but yeah the blockade isn't in effect, just large scale sabotage.
That actually makes my job easier actually.
BTW, is it just me or is there a new Icon for the quest when you click on Threadmarks? That's the Grey Wind isn't it?
It's the classic situation where things get inflated in your head. Every EIC update mentions Marienburg banditry and interfering with trade and the Marienburg situation, so my memory started to conflate that with the blockade being a thing instead of just a threat. I do think they're imposing unreasonable taxes that could be seen as "blocking in the wolfships", but yeah the blockade isn't in effect, just large scale sabotage.
That actually makes my job easier actually.
BTW, is it just me or is there a new Icon for the quest when you click on Threadmarks? That's the Grey Wind isn't it?
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@Boney a few typos in the Collection of Important Information under "Major Holds of Karaz Ankor":
steel & stream > steam
Doesn't barak varr also have direct river access to Karak Izor? (not included in the listing)
Tiles > Tilea
steel & stream > steam
Doesn't barak varr also have direct river access to Karak Izor? (not included in the listing)
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I just noticed that this paragraph seems to imply the Tzar who supplanted Kattarin the Bloody was NOT actually her son, which would mean they are technically a "pretender" with no lineage/connection to the previous ruling Tzars, right?
Is that a big deal in terms of Kislev succession? I heard they place a lot of importance on their rulers being related to Miska.
Logically speaking most of their noble families would have some claim due to the royal line breeding out over the last however many generations since Kislev was founded, they are fine.
Blocking the Wolfships is a reference to them not alloying the Empire to send warships from the Reik fleet through their city, as wolfships are military vessels. I think they've always done that, for the sound reason that the Empire sees them as a rebellious province and an Imperial fleet passing through the middle of their city might turn out to be a Trojan Horse.
They let more lightly armed merchant ships through though.
Or, as Libris Necris says Neferata did, female vampires can have biological children, Katharine did, and he is one. The Elixir's effects may not be passed down to them.
Libris Necris suggests that a vampire can have a living body if they want.
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Say, if Prince Kazrik and Princess Edda get married and they each inherit the throne of their respective Karaks, how would the logistics of their relationship work? Presumably, they'd both need to return to their respective Karaks to rule over them, so that would mean they'd live separately, right?
What about any potential children they had, would they inherit both Karaks? I'm not sure how Dwarven succession works when two royals marry.
What about any potential children they had, would they inherit both Karaks? I'm not sure how Dwarven succession works when two royals marry.
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"Karl-Franz's father had signed begrudging treaties with Marienburg, so Empire vessels were once again sailing the oceans, but only after paying expensive tolls to the Marienburg Directorate."
"To the south, the hoary Imperial First Fleet operates from Altdorf's Reiksport. It is by far the larger of the two fleets, but the majority of its ships rarely see the sea, for Marienburg's tolls for war vessels are exorbitantly high." Both from Shades of Empire page 76.
Marienburg allows the Wolfships to pass through after exorbitant taxation. I'm 100% sure they're not scared of the Riverine Navy of Reikland being a threat to the strongest human Navy in the Old World in Marienburg that has the cooperation of Norscan and Elven traders.
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I know Kazrik has been mentioned somewhere to be the heir but I don't think Edda has ever been mentioned to be the heir of her home hold.