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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Deathbybunnies said:
For the arm, I'm definitely in favour of putting it on a Wizard, and Johann will do if he's into that sort of thing. A Wizard will be able to give better feedback than a non-Wizard about what the hell it's doing and how it works, and be more helpful for future experimentation.

If we take it apart we'll learn about it, but we can always take it apart after putting it on someone. (This might take a while if they want to keep it, but there's no rush I'm aware of.)
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Between Egrimm, Johann and Mathilde (and possibly Max), we're pretty much nearing the magical dreamland scenario of learning how recreate it as well, and I'm sure Johann won't mind us taking it back and regrowing his original arm with the seed too much if we ask very nicely—especially if there's an opportunity to put another one on back again afterwards.
 
Alratan said:
The Guild of Wizards and Alchemists was apparently founded shortly after the Colleges by Magisters assigned to the north, and has been chartered by all eight of them and has representatives who can tutor members in the use of all eight Winds. It might be interesting to drop by and see what the local representative of the Grey Order has to say about the dwarves and how to approach them. It also might be interesting to see how a branch college works.
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There's two different sources that talk about the Guild.

Ashes of Middenheim says what you say, while in Realms of Sorcery, instead it says that the old Alchemist's Guild of Middenheim was bought out by the Gold Order about 80 years back and at this point only has representatives from the Gold and Celestial colleges.

Boney has previously indicated that he's going with the RoS version of things.

For example:
Boney said:
as demonstrated by the Gold Order competing with and eventual acquiring the Alchemists Guild of Middenheim
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm fairly sure we're not going to go all "terrifying ethereal assassin" on the imperial dwarves.

We're going to go to the Graf and say "Hey, buddy, the imperial dwarves living in your city have inherited ancestral knowledge that my very good friend Runelord Thorek Ironbrow—you might have heard of him?—very much wants to know. Could you give us a hand with this?"

And then Boris says to the imperial dwarves "As your lawful liege, I request that you pass on this knowledge to your kin in Karak Azul."

And then the Imperial Dwarves say "nope"

And so Boris responds "Oh that's a shame, especially since this business with our new friends the Eonir—who I've just learned were very good friends with your ancestors—has put such a strain upon my treasury. Why, it was only the other day when my steward suggested a new tax on dwarf made goods to make up the difference. I'm sure I could be convinced to find another method of raising the funds, however, hint hint, nudge nudge."
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And they in turn say, that is indeed a tragedy, but unfortunately you'll understand that with our costs raising the price to maintain the only ways in and off the roof of our city, which we control and are the only ones who can maintain has increased by even more than that...

Mopman43 said:
There's two different sources that talk about the Guild.

Ashes of Middenheim says what you say, while in Realms of Sorcery, instead it says that the old Alchemist's Guild of Middenheim was bought out by the Gold Order about 80 years back and at this point only has representatives from the Gold and Celestial colleges.

Boney has previously indicated that he's going with the RoS version of things.
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They're not necessarily incompatible. Realms of Sorcery says that the original Alchemists Guild of Middenheim folded eighty years before the canon date, and had its properties bought out by the Gold College, who then partnered with the Celestials to take over the facilities, who then moved their Middenheim personnel into the old building. The other Colleges may not have substantial faculties there as the Golds and Celestials do as Realms describes, but they doesn't mean that there aren't representatives from the other Colleges there as Ashes say.
 
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Mathilde: Hey Johann, please cut off your perfectly functional, superhuman arm that cost you years of savings to upgrade so we can try grafting on this object I bought in a Chaos Dwarf market.
Johann: Fuck no. *moves preternaturally fast to grab Mathilde shaped interlocutor* Who Are you? Where's Mathilde? Answer or the only place this golden hand is going is through your head!
After some frantic identity verification, rib healing and cups of tea...
M: I thought you'd be well up for some experimental body augmentation.
J: The Gold Order has studied the process of gilding since before Teclis. Nothing of what I've done to myself was experimental and yet such procedures can still sometimes fail. They're always agonising. I'd have to be an idiot, do you think I'm an idiot?
M: No, of course not. Sorry.
J: What if it fails but doesn't kill me? I'd have to get a Jade to regrow the arm and then I'd have to re-gild it which will hurt and will cost and might fail.
M: Point taken.
J: It's bad experimental design too. Grafting on to a highly attuned Chamon user is an unnecessary extra variable.
M: Fine. What do you suggest?
J: Find someone who is already missing an arm. Someone with little to lose and everything to gain. Someone you can put down if they turn into a monster. I'll happily join in poking them. If they survive all that you have a new henchman with a cool gimmick for when you do your menacing spymaster act.
 
Mopman43 said:
The one talked about in RoS is called the Guild of Wizards and Alchemists.

It was a retcon (RoS came out later).
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Sorry, corrected my post for a more plausible reconcilliaiton of the sources. RoS came out a few months later, but they'd have been in development at the same kind. And as mentioned before, my understanding is there are no retcons in Warhammer, just different sources from different IC authors.
 
noliar said:
Mathilde: Hey Johann, please cut off your perfectly functional, superhuman arm that cost you years of savings to upgrade so we can try grafting on this object I bought in a Chaos Dwarf market.
Johann: Fuck no. *moves preternaturally fast to grab Mathilde shaped interlocutor* Who Are you? Where's Mathilde? Answer or the only place this golden hand is going is through your head!
After some frantic identity verification, rib healing and cups of tea...
M: I thought you'd be well up for some experimental body augmentation.
J: The Gold Order has studied the process of gilding since before Teclis. Nothing of what I've done to myself was experimental and yet such procedures can still sometimes fail. They're always agonising. I'd have to be an idiot, do you think I'm an idiot?
M: No, of course not. Sorry.
J: What if it fails but doesn't kill me? I'd have to get a Jade to regrow the arm and then I'd have to re-gild it which will hurt and will cost and might fail.
M: Point taken.
J: It's bad experimental design too. Grafting on to a highly attuned Chamon user is an unnecessary extra variable.
M: Fine. What do you suggest?
J: Find someone who is already missing an arm. Someone with little to lose and everything to gain. Someone you can put down if they turn into a monster. I'll happily join in poking them. If they survive all that you have a new henchman with a cool gimmick for when you do your menacing spymaster act.
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Johann is a pinnacle of sensible, rational risk assessment. That's why he never poured molten gold in his eyes twice, never used a spell of magical insight on a Dwarven holy place, and never frontally assaulted a Skaven fortification. In fact, he never became a Wizard in the first place, because what kind of weirdo would allow poorly-understood and potentially dangerous magic into their body in the name of power and understanding?
 
Boney said:
Johann is a pinnacle of sensible, rational risk assessment. That's why he never poured molten gold in his eyes twice, never used a spell of magical insight on a Dwarven holy place, and never frontally assaulted a Skaven fortification. In fact, he never became a Wizard in the first place, because what kind of weirdo would allow poorly-understood and potentially dangerous magic into their body in the name of power and understanding?
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Lol, what update did he do that?
 
Woltaire said:
Lol, what update did he do that?
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On our zeroth date with him, he told us about using Tale of Metal on a sliver of gromril from the First Mine and getting a vision of the Ancestor Gods dropped directly into his mind, which is why he now worships them.
Boney said:
He hesitates a moment longer. "The First Mine, under the Citadel? The Priest took me to visit it as part of my training. I was supposed to meditate in there, but I was curious, and it turns out trace amounts of gromril left behind by a miner counts as 'creation'. I only got the split second of the pick striking the stone, but... it was Them. All three of Them. One mining, one smelting, and one striking down the greenskins. I don't know if they were Gods, but what I saw of Them was more than enough to justify worshipping Them."
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Guile said:
[X] [ARM] Amputee

Please don't jam Hysh into our Chamon-user's brain
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It's (probably) not doing that though.
Boney said:
Though the magical interface seems like it would be a problem, Hysh meeting Chamon."

"I can't say for sure, but I don't think it would. If this is meant to be a long-term prosthetic, it must work through the body's natural control mechanisms - if it ran a tendril of Hysh all the way to the brain it would have negative long-term effects on the wearer.
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DragonParadox said:
You know we joke about Mathilde having a dwarf infection all the time, but has anyone considered that we may be giving the dwarfs who interact with us a bit of a Grey Wizard infection?

I mean think about what Thorek is asking here, not the Ghumzul thing, that is uncommonly subtle for a pissed off dwarf seeking to gain secrets from those he considers unworthy, but whatever, you work with the tools you have. No the thing that makes me think Thorek might have 'Goraki' in his sheet is the offer to trade his judgement on the matter of Waystones for a favorable report on Dum. That is really underhanded, far more so than what Belegar did by hitting Moulder to help Mors during the battles for Eight Peaks.
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Consider Thorek's king: When asked if we can borrow Thorek for a damn-fool research project involving both elves and umgi, he said 'Say no more, probably wouldn't understand it anyway, I trust you.'
DragonParadox said:
Very good point.

I don't know if the idea that Azul may think the empire is made up of Mathildes is hilarious or horrifying. :V
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Don't be silly; Kazrik knows the Empire isn't made up of Mathildes.

He spent time hanging with Nuln. The place Gotri wishes he lived instead.
The3rdCorinthian said:
It's (probably) not doing that though.
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I appreciate the quote dig.

Well, we can probably trust the unknown mystery folk who built a golden arm with a magic cannon in it to have the health of their subject in mind
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Now this is interesting, because engineering has become a daily part of dwarven life. Canons and handguns are everyday tools of war. Gyrocopters keep the holds connected. Steamships and ironclads patrol the rivers. Zhufbar is the engineering hold.

But runesmithing, which is a fundamental part of dwarven culture, has become a bit of a relic, only known and used by old masters who remember the old days. There were only a few thousand runic items in the reclamation of K8P. Runesmiths did not devise a way to maintain contact between the holds. The greatest achievement of the kings of Barak Var is to fund the creation of a dreadnought. There is no "runesmithing hold", unless we include Vlag and Dum. It is Manling canons that secure Karak Eight Peaks, not dwarven runecraft.

Thungni isn't a god for the modern Karaz Ankor. When Gunnars was rebuilding shrines to the Ancestors, only two were made for Thungni—a personal shrine for Thorek, and a personal shrine for Kragg, whilst Morgrim had a public one put in the Gyrocopter bay.

The runesmiths are utterly disconnected from the people they serve, and they are becoming less relevant each year, except as the creators of antiques and relics.

And Thorek wants to change that. He wants to drag the runesmiths—the ones who are failing in their duties, the ones who are failing their people—into the modern day, before all that's left of them is family heirlooms.
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Surprise upside: Thorek getting runesmiths to modernize and take on big numbers of apprentices may be the only way K8P will ever get a runesmith guild in our lifetime.
DragonParadox said:
I think it is clear by Belegar's intrigue being seen as extraordinary for a dwarf, that high intrigue on a dwarf is very much the exception and not the rule, and as they are mostly terrible at it we can assume that they rarely make use of it. I recall someone asked about a 'dwarf secret service' and the GM said he would not use it because it would not fit them.
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I think the issue is that Dwarf Intrigue is funneled outward, in the Rangers, rather than turned inward against itself.

Dwarfholds have two Marshal positions on the council and no Spymaster.
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
It's highly unlikely that the creators subscribe to the chiselhands philosophy of magic, and as such they probably considered pumping raw Hysh into the brainmeats to be a bad thing that is to be avoided.
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My point is that we have no idea what philosophy the creators subscribe to, because we have no idea who the creators are.

Lizardmen? Maybe? Big question mark.

I'd rather not stick the ancient Hysh artifact on a guy I like a lot and just... hope for the best. That's what Some Random Knight Or Whatever is for.
 
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