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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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If the players were playing a ruler and we had to decide who got the very best personal gear between a researcher who was rarely ever going to use it or the best soldier around who would be constantly using it I'm 99.999 percent sure that everyone would have voted to give to the guy that would be constantly using it.

what if that reasearcher needs that gear to find the ingredient to save your kingdom from a plague. Or some other inane thing that can bust the metaphor.

Basically the point is that we don't actually need top level gear and it seems like there would be a more practical argument for giving it out to people who would get more use out of it.

We are a Runelord, as people have pointed out go on every big March we can. And in all of those we have been a center of the throng. The Greedy One is a good example. The only reason that the gear isn't used more often is because of the excess of runelords and the wealth and armaments of the hold.
 
@BungieONI In the interest of avoiding a repeat of gronti ingredient woopsie can you change your order this turn to the t4 troll heart or carnosaur just to get it out of the way? Or use favor to add an extra order for it?
I don't want to do Grontis very much, but I could add it in. Y'all who have voted for my plan, do you want to use Kingly Authority to add in another order on top of the White Lions, this time for a T4 troll heart?
 
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Lever
 
Seeing as I am sick and tired of this kind of thing I'm going to use this example. If the players were playing a ruler and we had to decide who got the very best personal gear between a researcher who was rarely ever going to use it or the best soldier around who would be constantly using it I'm 99.999 percent sure that everyone would have voted to give to the guy that would be constantly using it. Because you miss the thing about making epic gear that appeals to many of us, that is that it's actually out there used by the greatest heroes outright wrecking shit and making it's own legends with us being proud for having made it.

Otherwise having our best stuff lying around the bad majority of the time doing nothing is pretty wasteful. Heck, I remember playing a crafting quest where players were outright happy to make epic level gear not to keep for ourselves but to give to others. Especially since the PC for said quest wouldn't be anywhere near as capable as the top tier warrirors. Basically the point is that we don't actually need top level gear and it seems like there would be a more practical argument for giving it out to people who would get more use out of it.

On top of that the thing I can't comprehend is why people get so upset that not everyone is interested in getting absolute top level gear for ourselves considering that we can still make top gear for ourselves. Seriously, our second best personal gear would still be pretty fucking amazing and something the absolute best heroes would love to have as anyone who has played warriors in Warhammer quests would tell you.
I would argue that a lot of the appeal for the epic gear we craft is to see Snorri, the player character, actually use the weapons. We are not playing a ruler, we are playing a crafter/priest. If we were playing a ruler that would involve commissioning the craftsman to make the thing. No one is ever going to commission us to use Kholek's brain specifically.

Our use of Barak Azamar and Zharrgal is not wasteful. We use them to create better Runes and weapons. Now, with the cloak you have an argument, but a poor one. Snorri is very capable at fighting, and improving that is not wasteful in the least.

Do not get me wrong, I understand the sentiment, but I still consider the foundation of the argument to be flawed. Countering your arguments does not mean I cannot comprehend how you came to that conclusion. We already have five hundred favor with Kraka Drakk, which at this rate we will never spend because the only option we really would use with any degree of certainty was taken last turn with the breakthrough on the frozen stone. All your ideas will result in is yet more indebting of Kraka Drakk to ourselves. (Incidentally this is a large part of why I am so opposed to the retainer expansions)

Yes I am sure that a lot of heroes would love to have our gear. Don't you think that there are Dwarfs that could do more with Rik Hunken than Gimli? There would have been Dwarfs that could do more with Trollslayer than Otrek.

There is no point at which your argument ends without indulging in hypocrisy and hubris.
 
Hmm, yeah I'll add the heart, it'll mess up the tally a bit due to some folks copying the whole plan sadly. Still going to do Eltharin next turn and work on Akazit's opening the turn after. I don't want a Gronti to get in the way of that and would oppose building one on those turns.
 
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about Avelorn

[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Lever
[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Magic Killer Amulet.
 
And many people people were against using the Heart because people kept pointing that realistically the vast majority of items we make for personal use would be gathering dust the vast majority of time. Because again, we are literally playing a researcher and crafter whose main things are research and crafting. It's fine to use extremely rare items for those since they are as best as they can be without being one of a kind since we wouldn't be using one of a kind items for something that wouldn't be seeing much use compared to someone who would actually be using it constantly while being the best person to wield them.

Example being that if we end up making a T5 to get the most use out of it it would just make sense to give to say the best warrior around.


First of all, Snorri has fought literally every major enemy and gone on every major campaign the hold has had, with the soul exception of the Haruzildrakk's kid, which with it being lesser, we trusted Gloin to kill. Snorri fights, perhaps not as much as the king and his line, but he fights quite often for a Runelord. Secondly, Snorri provides a function that even his peers sometimes struggle with, persistent and constant Magical denial. Where most runelords would flag and exhuast themselves Snorri does not stop, and his ability to shut down magic is easily the best in the north, and likely only those runelords who are either truly ancient or have it as their focus can top that. This is on top of being a physically durable and untiring opponent who can wear down almost anyone with his gear wrecking hammer. Said hammer which draws power from his armor, said armor which was made as a masterwork and will not come again. We could give them to another fighter, but realistically as the most experienced runelord in the north entire, that'd be unhelpful. We're the equivalent of a Dwarven Wizard, but of course far far more reliable and much less shoddy. When the time comes for us to fight we're going to need to go hard, because our ability to shut down magic, our age, and our runes make us a huge target to anyone not an idiot. The only people who could surpass us either already have better gear, are too far away, are runelords similar to us, or are the Royal family who've staked their claim to Troll slayer which is already a terrifying weapon and THE royal weapon of the Karak.


I don't get you whining about us not fighting or wasting an item for a final piece which will likely finalize our gear for millennia to come if it goes off right.


I personally am against it if only because an unresearched chaos tainted mat with unknown properties getting used in such a high magic area is asking for trouble or something to go wrong.
 
In 44 turns it came up all of once. "Probably not going to see another against for a long, long time. If ever."
We goddamn know Storms of Magic are a common phenomena on Mallus. Maybe try to factor that into your calculations.

That the dwarfs think it won't ever come again is because it was clearly unreliable narrator and because this is the first(second actually, the first was Siege of Kraka Drakk, 25 turns ago, so factor that into your calculations too) Storm of Magic we could make use of.

At worst, we will wait another 20-30 turns, which si about a Dwarf generation i would suspect. Much more likely, it will come in 15 or so.
 
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[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Lever
 
We'll also have at least a full turn (turn post and results) of warning, like we got with this storm. It was foreshadowed by the air and sky going funky, so now we know to keep an eye out for that.
 
[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)
[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Lever
 
I don't want to do Grontis very much, but I could add it in. Y'all who have voted for my plan, do you want to use Kingly Authority to add in another order on top of the White Lions, this time for a T4 troll heart?
We don't have to make the gronti now, but it would be nice if we could actually be prepared for the next time it, you know, comes. :V
 
It seems like most people don't want to make a Gronti right now, for any number of reasons.
To be honest, the first thing that went through my head when the storm of magic popped up in the updoot was, "well, guess it's time to make that gronti eveyone's been talking about." I just don't have the attention to detail necessary (ie, runes + reagents, and flavor text) to make a non-shoddy gronti or else I'd make a proper vote of it myself.
 
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To be honest, the first thing that went through my head when the storm of magic popped up in the updoot was, "well, guess it's time to make that gronti eveyone's been talking about." I just don't have the attention to detail necessary (ie, runes + reagents, and flavor text) to make a non-shoddy gronti or else I'd make a proper vote it myself.
That's really fair tbh.
 
I suppose the good thing is we should maybe have movement done by the next one and maybe rune metal as well. If we can't get a t5 heart for the gronti, the t5 rune metal being used as the base for the runes is a good substitute.
 
Now I'd like to advocate for a Carnosaur Heart over a Troll Heart for the Grimnir Gronti. Why? Why because a Carnosaur will kick a Troll's ass, and I'm not about putting a loser's heart into dwarfdom's premier ass-kicker.
 
[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make the Grimnir Gronti.
 
[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make the Grimnir Gronti.
 
Screw it, switching my vote. Let's make us a Gronti.

[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)

[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make the Grimnir Gronti.
 
[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about this new Elf Colony
[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Talismanic Runes > Talismanic Runes (Exceptional+)

[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make a Lever
 
[X] Plan We Have a Fulcrum, Let's Make the Grimnir Gronti.

[X] [Specialty:] Productivity (Mastered+) > Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty:] Odd and Esoteric Runes (Exceptional) > Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered)
 
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