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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
As I understand it, an elf literally can't cast a spell unless they know how and why it works first. A human can YOLO it instead.

That's not a "won't cast because it's sloppy", that's a "physically impossible to cast for an elf".

An elf could never cast Rite of Way, no matter how many times we showed it to them, because in theory it doesn't work at all. Seriously, we wasted like, an entire AP doing the maths trying to calculate it, gave up, and used intuition to make it instead. An elven mage can't do that.
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Actually, if I understand Boney right, an radical/reckless elf could cast an 'codified' version of Rite of way just as well as a human wizard.

But they won't understand it if they 'opened the bonnet' to look at the detail of the spell.

And elf's are rarely willing to use spells that they don't understand as that's how you 'fuck up' and get arcane marks.

It's not 'cant' it's 'not worth it for them to try'
 
Elfs can understand anything that Colleges can codify. What elves cannot do is make intuitive jumps totally devoided of any logic or structure.

Far as I understand, it's not perfectly identical to DnD wizard/sorcerer divide, but that's a passable metaphor for difference (with single-wind limit for humans as a caveat): elfs do magical science, while humans also do that as much as possible and add non-logical jumps of intuition born out of affinity for a particular wind. Anything codified, elfs can read and understand, eventually.

And an additional note is that humans can mutate further into becoming a creature of their wind, meaning they gain powers just from their nature, without any magical casting or understanding involved. See Mathilde's Arcane Mark which attracts all mist/fog/gas in the area: she can turn it into a way of doing tricks with such substances just because she's mutated this way. Elfs cannot really replicate this, it's a mutation, not spell.
 
DragonParadox said:
You know I wonder how many wizards we will be able to bribe with access (direct or second hand) to the Library of Mornings? I mean we joke about Mathy being a cat, but that thing is legitimately wizard catnip. :V
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All the Colleges will step on each other trying to convince us to take their Magisters for the project. I don't think the Eonir would give free access to all imperial magisters participating, but certainly to a few of them in exchange of College favours. And we will also get those favours for taking said magister with us.

If Laurelorn win, of course.
 
so, interesting theory from reading 2ed/4ed Laurelorn.

there does seem to be quite a lot of class struggle undertones beneath the surface of Lauelorn between the descendants of the 'original' natives/Grey Lords and the descendants of the 'refugees'.

and between the nomadic 'Ward of the forest' and more settled 'Ward of the Sun'.
 
Speaking of wizards and libraries how do you guys think the K8P wizards will react to the move? Who is up for some elf living/

My guesses would be:
  1. Max: No, he is a methodical person and has sunk a lot of effort into learning dwarf forging, he is not going to give that up to run off into the forest to look at books, even books older than the elven species.
  2. Johan: Yes, he is ambitious and driven and there is nothing binding him to K8P
  3. Panoramia: No, she has work yet to do on the caldera and the Skaven goo experiments
  4. Adela: No, she wants to learn engineering and you do not find those with the Eonir
  5. Hubert: Maybe, on the one hand he is not very academic, on the other hand he is Ulrican and a noble, this might be his chance to impress his family
  6. Gretel: No, she has a very comfortable life here, silk sheets and all and she can work with the mercs to get the money to maintain it
 
DragonParadox said:
Speaking of wizards and libraries how do you guys think the K8P wizards will react to the move? Who is up for some elf living/

My guesses would be:
  1. Max: No, he is a methodical person and has sunk a lot of effort into learning dwarf forging, he is not going to give that up to run off into the forest to look at books, even books older than the elven species.
  2. Johan: Yes, he is ambitious and driven and there is nothing binding him to K8P
  3. Panoramia: No, she has work yet to do on the caldera and the Skaven goo experiments
  4. Adela: No, she wants to learn engineering and you do not find those with the Eonir
  5. Hubert: Maybe, on the one hand he is not very academic, on the other hand he is Ulrican and a noble, this might be his chance to impress his family
  6. Gretel: No, she has a very comfortable life here, silk sheets and all and she can work with the mercs to get the money to maintain it
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honestly, while the joke is that Gretel is *best duckling. Hubert is my actual favorite, so I would like to see him come, but really this is not his jam and he got a good job.
 
I wonder what kind of Loremaster Belegar will go for next, what are even his options?

A Runemaster? A scholar, if so what discipline? Or will he go full radical and perhaps hire another wizard? I'd laugh my ass off if that was the case, us being so worried about not being the best pick and Belegar thinking otherwise and getting another wizard.
 
DragonParadox said:
Speaking of wizards and libraries how do you guys think the K8P wizards will react to the move? Who is up for some elf living/

My guesses would be:
  1. Max: No, he is a methodical person and has sunk a lot of effort into learning dwarf forging, he is not going to give that up to run off into the forest to look at books, even books older than the elven species.
  2. Johan: Yes, he is ambitious and driven and there is nothing binding him to K8P
  3. Panoramia: No, she has work yet to do on the caldera and the Skaven goo experiments
  4. Adela: No, she wants to learn engineering and you do not find those with the Eonir
  5. Hubert: Maybe, on the one hand he is not very academic, on the other hand he is Ulrican and a noble, this might be his chance to impress his family
  6. Gretel: No, she has a very comfortable life here, silk sheets and all and she can work with the mercs to get the money to maintain it
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I rather disagree with the Johann and Hubert assessments. It's splitting his time between Ulrikadrin and K8P that's allowed him to reach an equilibrium between his wizarding side and his...everything else. As for Johann, well, he'd be the first name to replace Mathilde as the leader of the Order of August Ducklings and, maybe more importantly, the go-to person for the dwarves to approach for the "strange shite is happening" problems.
 
Sparsebeard said:
I wonder what kind of Loremaster Belegar will go for next, what are even his options?

A Runemaster? A scholar, if so what discipline? Or will he go full radical and perhaps hire another wizard? I'd laugh my ass off if that was the case, us being so worried about not being the best pick and Belegar thinking otherwise and getting another wizard.
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Judging form the giant piles of documents on his desk, a law expert so he does not have to deal with new clans alone.

silentorphan said:
I rather disagree with the Johann and Hubert assessments. It's splitting his time between Ulrikadrin and K8P that's allowed him to reach an equilibrium between his wizarding side and his...everything else. As for Johann, well, he'd be the first name to replace Mathilde as the leader of the Order of August Ducklings and, maybe more importantly, the go-to person for the dwarves to approach for the "strange shite is happening" problems.
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OK but why doe Johann care about being a dwarf gofer or a baby sitter for wizards of other colleges? Neither of those things are going to help with his metallic transcendence of flesh or other improvements as a wizard.
 
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DragonParadox said:
OK but why doe Johann care about being a dwarf gofer or a baby sitter for wizards of other colleges? Neither of those things are going to help with his metallic transcendence of flesh or other improvements as a wizard.
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"Head Wizard of K8P" is...I hesitate to call it an ambassadorial position, but I think it functions as a rough equivalent for the Colleges as a direct line into the Karaz Ankor. It may not help in all academic pursuits, but there are realpolitik advantages to it.
 
silentorphan said:
"Head Wizard of K8P" is...I hesitate to call it an ambassadorial position, but I think it functions as a rough equivalent for the Colleges as a direct line into the Karaz Ankor. It may not help in all academic pursuits, but there are realpolitik advantages to it.
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The thing is Johan is not a diplomat by inclination. At most he is personable and well liked, but his basic interest is not in schmoozing with Belegar, it is in being a transhuman punch wizard with a sideline in material sciences, because he cheats.
 
silentorphan said:
"Head Wizard of K8P" is...I hesitate to call it an ambassadorial position, but I think it functions as a rough equivalent for the Colleges as a direct line into the Karaz Ankor. It may not help in all academic pursuits, but there are realpolitik advantages to it.
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The issue is that Johann is not Mathilde.
If the dwarves need to for some reason get in contact with colleges they would contact Mathilde as someone they can trust.
 
SpaceSloth said:
The issue is that Johann is not Mathilde.
If the dwarves need to for some reason get in contact with colleges they would contact Mathilde as someone they can trust.
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He is not Mathilde but he is a trusted individual and the closest thing to Dwarf friend after Mathilde and Max. If they have a problem, they'd approach him before Max due to him being a more established and higher ranking Wizard. They trust Johann, not nearly as much as Mathilde, but enough to confide in him if they have trouble.
 
Codex said:
He is not Mathilde but he is a trusted individual and the closest thing to Dwarf friend after Mathilde and Max. If they have a problem, they'd approach him before Max due to him being a more established and higher ranking Wizard. They trust Johann, not nearly as much as Mathilde, but enough to confide in him if they have trouble.
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Dawongr: Johann has always gotten along well with Dwarves, but has recently gone a step further into engaging with their culture.

He's not the closest thing to a dwarf friend he explicitly is one. Granted he's still no Mathilde.
 
Codex said:
He is not Mathilde but he is a trusted individual and the closest thing to Dwarf friend after Mathilde and Max. If they have a problem, they'd approach him before Max due to him being a more established and higher ranking Wizard. They trust Johann, not nearly as much as Mathilde, but enough to confide in him if they have trouble.
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How many times did dwarves have problem that they needed help from colleges ?

I cant think of anything time sensitive enough that they would need to come to Johann rather that contacting Mathilde, who will still be in contact with dwarves since they will be part of the waystone project.
 
I feel like Johans version of permanent mage-sight will be very helpful in tracking magic flow in and out of things. I hope we take Gretel because we rarely do anything with her and it makes me sad. Granted I'm biased towards death magic
 
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