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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Having slept on it, I feel we're presumeing too much of a flawless victory. Like they just converted a Demon Prince, turned the mountain into a dhar purifier, and converted beastmen into a dwarven war gang.

There has to be a complication. There is no way its just "hooray! Demon Prince converted"
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Joerg? No clue. We know he has a streak of mysticism, and that the Ice Witch preferred his company to ours (how did they know each other? why does he have a kislev name structured like an imperial one?) I'm actually a little worried he'll want to stay—he's a devout Taalite, and Taal hates beastmen. He might see it as a duty to go on a crusade against the Beastman Demigod before us, and I don't know if we can hold him back if he decides to do that.
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Joerg wanted to leave when it looked like we wouldn't be able to carry enough food with much less reluctance than Ruprecht.
 
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Valmond said:
If we accept any help from them, then we too will be assumed corrupt, there is a reason why we did not make it public we were buying food form chaos dwarves.
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I'd rather all the expedition be alive and have some stoggy members of the Karaz Ankor going "She's corrupt, but she's reclaimed two Karak's, but she's corrupt, but she's reclaimed two Karak's" and bluescreening until someone points out "maybe... just maybe... when she says there were uncorrupted dwarves there she's right? There could be corrupt ones too, behind the Morghur thing, but uncorrupted ones who're just trapped!" than have half the expedition die on the way back because we couldn't be bothered to investigate.

EDIT: If they worked purely by the logic of "accepting aid from someone corrupt makes you corrupt" they'd be forced to declare the entire Karaz Ankor corrupt because we helped reclaim K8P and the whole Karaz Ankor is surviving on its power input now.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm going though the remaining councillors (ourself, Snorri, Joerg and Ruprecht) and I'm trying to figure out how they'll react.

Snorri probably wants to go home. Everything after Vlag has probably been a mistake in his eyes, and he wants to figure out how Clan Redbeard fits into the new political situation between Kadrin and Vlag.

Ruprecht probably also wants to go home. He's proven himself an able commander (rallying the wolves at Vlag) and he has ambitions for how the role of the wolves can be expanded. He's canny enough not to want to mess around here without obvious benefit.

Joerg? No clue. We know he has a streak of mysticism, and that the Ice Witch preferred his company to ours (how did they know each other? why does he have a kislev name structured like an imperial one?) I'm actually a little worried he'll want to stay—he's a devout Taalite, and Taal hates beastmen. He might see it as a duty to go on a crusade against the Beastman Demigod before us, and I don't know if we can hold him back if he decides to do that.

Of course, he might just want to Nope out of here as well. Two wings of knights and two wizards is nowhere near enough to take on Morghur, and someone as experienced as he is should know that. Being religious doesn't make you tactically stupid, after all.

To summarise the votes:
Snorri: Leave
Ruprecht: Leave
Joerg: ???
Mathilde: Undecided

Unless we have a really good reason to stick around, we might get outvoted here.
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Too be fair, we might not need to fight, the dwarves of Dum don't seem hostile, Mathilde's only task is to find out whats going on in Karag Dum and steal the chaotic cup, all of which requires no army.
 
CornyBones said:
Having slept on it, I feel we're presumeing too much of a flawless victory. Like they just converted a Demon Prince, turned the mountain into a dhar purifier, and converted beastmen into a dwarven war gang.

There has to be a complication. There is no way its just "hooray! Demon Prince converted"
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Yes, that's why the "made a pact" theory is also around. That'd be exactly what the Dawi-Zharr did with Hashut.
 
kingreaper said:
I'd rather all the expedition be alive and have some stoggy members of the Karaz Ankor going "She's corrupt, but she's reclaimed two Karak's, but she's corrupt, but she's reclaimed two Karak's" and bluescreening until someone points out "maybe... just maybe... when she says there were uncorrupted dwarves there she's right? There could be corrupt ones too, behind the Morghur thing, but uncorrupted ones who're just trapped!" than have half the expedition die on the way back because we couldn't be bothered to investigate.
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We accept help from Dum and we are not going to get out alive with some stoggy members, instead we are likely to have a civil war at our hands, if not a lynch mob.
 
Turning back after everything we've been through? No. Let the intrigue MC do some intrigue.

[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
 
The thing is that the dwarfs back home will never believe Dum isn't corrupted. Between what the expedition saw and the already dubious politics around Dum it won't matter.
 
Ithuriel said:
Communication between Vlag and Dum is still almost impossible. Messengers would need to travel above ground likely following the route we took past the Chaos Dwarfs, Skaven, and Dolgan.
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You have to wonder though :

1. Does the underpass goes from Vlag to Dum,
2. Does the chaos wastes extend underground (stone is an excellent insulator of magic but not perfect).
Omegahugger said:
A: It's the right thing to do.
B: With Karak Vlag restored communications will probably become easier to maintain, greatly increasing the odds of travelling news
C: It's literally the job Belegar sent us here to do
D: Never assume that something isn't going to be a problem just because everybody involved is dead.
E: These fuckers quite possibly managed to convert an immortal Demigod of Chaos, that shit deserves some recongition
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I'd add :

F: Would be nice to get some excavation tools to repair the road if we intend to come back the way we came.
 
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Omegahugger said:
A: It's the right thing to do.
B: With Karak Vlag restored communications will probably become easier to maintain, greatly increasing the odds of travelling news
C: It's literally the job Belegar sent us here to do
D: Never assume that something isn't going to be a problem just because everybody involved is dead.
E: These fuckers quite possibly managed to convert an immortal Demigod of Chaos, that shit deserves some recongition
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  1. I don't think it fits Mathilde's characterization to care enough about the right thing here to put her reputation and her life on the line
  2. It's really really not, this is the Deep Chaos Wastes, what are they going to do hire Deathwing every time they do a supply run? Even dwarfs aren't that rich.
  3. The job he sent us to do is to find out what state Dun was in, the state is 'apparently meddling with Chaos'. As seen by the reaction of our fellow expedition members that is more than cause enough to turn back.
  4. That's not a reason, just a statement of fact that has not been proven
  5. See point one
 
CornyBones said:
At that point, why would they choose Goat Man instead of Hashut?
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Because fuck Hashut?
I mean, it's fairly obvious that Hashut was a bad bet, but Goat Man? Surely nothing can go wrong with alliance with the Goat Man. :V

bigbow said:
Turning back after everything we've been through? No. Let the intrigue MC do some intrigue.
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And all that not intrigue people will just wait here and hope we roll well?
I mean, what even is the goal? What do you hope to accomplish? Other than satisfying your curiosity.
 
Sparsebeard said:
You have to wonder though :

1. Does the underpass goes form Vlag to Dum,
2. Does the chaos wastes extend underground (stone is an excellent insulator of magic but not perfect).


I'd add :

F: Would be nice to get some excavation tools to repair the road if we intend to come back the way we came.
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There is a ridiculous distance between Vlag and Dum. Also if their was an underpass it likely would have been cracked open and Dum fallen by now.
 
Valmond said:
We accept help from Dum and we are not going to get out alive with some stoggy members, instead we are likely to have a civil war at our hands, if not a lynch mob.
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If we manage to demonstrate that they're saveable why would people who can see with their own eyes what's actually happening be incapable of accepting it?

I get the belief that people back in the old world might be unable to, but people who're here and can meet a perfectly rational dwarf willing to help them who shows no sign of chaos taint and is vouched for by the experts on chaos taint that they brought with them for the expedition - no, I can't see them rejecting life-saving aid and declaring that they'd rather die.
 
kingreaper said:
I'd rather all the expedition be alive and have some stoggy members of the Karaz Ankor going "She's corrupt, but she's reclaimed two Karak's, but she's corrupt, but she's reclaimed two Karak's" and bluescreening until someone points out "maybe... just maybe... when she says there were uncorrupted dwarves there she's right? There could be corrupt ones too, behind the Morghur thing, but uncorrupted ones who're just trapped!" than have half the expedition die on the way back because we couldn't be bothered to investigate.

EDIT: If they worked purely by the logic of "accepting aid from someone corrupt makes you corrupt" they'd be forced to declare the entire Karaz Ankor corrupt because we helped reclaim K8P and the whole Karaz Ankor is surviving on its power input now.
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How did leaving now become more dangerous than staying and investigating? Seems like a hell of a stretch.

Whoa dude the wizards arent considered the experts on chaos taint.
 
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There is a way to prove that the dwarves of Dum is not a lost cause, build a tower that does not use Ulgu (enemy chaos magic users use Dhar and Ulgu) and have them submit to the eye of Gazul to be judged, or whatever Gods dwarves worship. if they pass, they are not corrupt and they live.
 
CornyBones said:
Having slept on it, I feel we're presumeing too much of a flawless victory. Like they just converted a Demon Prince, turned the mountain into a dhar purifier, and converted beastmen into a dwarven war gang.

There has to be a complication. There is no way its just "hooray! Demon Prince converted"
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Morghur isn't a Daemon Prince, and if there is a complication, I'd rather it not bite us in the ass because we just decided there was nothing to see here.

LightLan said:
Yes, that's why the "made a pact" theory is also around. That'd be exactly what the Dawi-Zharr did with Hashut.
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made a pact theory seems silly to me, Morghur is too insane to make a pact, and if he wasn't, why would the waystone still be pure, and the ground uncorrupted, and Borek accept headpats?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
How did leaving now become more dangerous than staying and investigating? Seems like a hell of a stretch.
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I'm arguing that if it turns out they're not corrupted our return journey will be safer.

Staying here is currently perfectly safe. We're not on a meaningful time limit and we're not under attack. Investigating could prove dangerous, but I feel like the chance of getting valuable aid is worth the risk that investigating might result in some scouts getting killed.
 
kingreaper said:
I get the belief that people back in the old world might be unable to, but people who're here and can meet a perfectly rational dwarf willing to help them who shows no sign of chaos taint and is vouched for by the experts on chaos taint that they brought with them for the expedition - no, I can't see them rejecting life-saving aid and declaring that they'd rather die.
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I don't see any such theoretical dwarf, I only got to see the obvious beastman demi-god and even waiting for this dwarf has risks.

Actively trying to make contact has worse risks.
 
Katahiraga said:
There is a way to prove that the dwarves of Dum is not a lost cause, build a tower that does not use Ulgu (enemy chaos magic users use Dhar and Ulgu) and have them submit to the eye of Gazul to be judged, or whatever Gods dwarves worship. if they pass, they are not corrupt and they live.
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Mathilde can't build such a tower and that would take months to do. Months where we were stuck either in the Chaos Wastes or in the Karak with dwarfs of dubious purity.
 
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