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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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WorldSlayer said:
We're looking at spending at least another week in the chaos wastes regardless. If we back off a bit and take a look around with a telescope and poke at some bones that's a pretty marginal risk to potentially cut down the possibilities quite a lot. Higher risks can also be taken if they're worth it.

It'd be pretty tragic for example if we assume Karag Dum is completely corrupted and fail to receive a message because we immediately left instead of spending a few hours investigating. We don't even need to stay in the same place, we can start making distance away from Karag Dum immediately while we have people gather information and be close enough to receive messages.
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BoneyM said:
You ignore the steady thock of crossbow-fired messages from behind, then hear an out-of-breath Snorri swearing as he barges through the crowd behind you. "Why have we-" he stops himself as he looks out into the crater. "Where'd the other mountains go?"

"Don't know," you answer.

"Why is there a forest? And a desert?"

"Don't know," you say again.

"Why's Borek out there? Wait, who's that?"

"I think it's more of a 'what' than a 'who'," you say.

"Cor-Dum," one of the Rangers says.

There's a moment as Snorri processes that. "Alright, job done, Borek's back home, time we accomplished the same for ourselves," he says briskly. "If this thing's stuck, leave it here."
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I'm not imagining that any of the others will be more enthusiastic about staying.
 
Something else to keep in mind is the portent from the Celestial Magister Matriarch. Michel said he doesn't know, but even if he's actually honest, the Matriarch does. And I think if we make it back alive thwn we have some right to grill her on it.
Katahiraga said:
Too bad Borek thinks Mathilde, is omniscient and knows what he is talking about in the first place, and knows what he wanted her to tell everyone.
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All Borek said is "Oh well. GG. Please tell the others not to hate us forever because we tried our best. Bye."
 
Omegahugger said:
Maybe that's what most people will think of, but Belegar won't. He trusts Mathilde, if she says that Karag Dum found a non-Chaos way to get the assistance of Morghur, he will believe her.
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OK I have to ask, why are we supposed to put our reputation on the line for these doomed weirdos at the edge of the world? There is no way to maintain constant communication and the Chaos Wastes will wear them down anyway, We can just declare them chaos and walk away secure in the knowledge that no on is ever going to gainsay it and be believed. What is a Daemon of Tzeench going to show up in twenty years and explain in complex detail how they weren't exactly Chaos? The only useful thing they can have for us are:
  1. Artifacts which we can claim we stole from the evil chaos dwarfs
  2. Lore which we can sneak in and sanitize like we did the Liber Mortis
 
ReImagined said:
I'm not imagining that any of the others will be more enthusiastic about staying.
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Humans are prone to the Sunk-Cost Fallacy, and coming out here is a damn big sunk cost. I can see a good number going "Fuckit, we're here now and we might not survive the journey back unaided. Lets make sure the job is 110% done and maybe we'll get lucky and there'll be some good dwarves left to help us."
 
kingreaper said:
Humans are prone to the Sunk-Cost Fallacy, and coming out here is a damn big sunk cost. I can see a good number going "Fuckit, we're here now and we might not survive the journey back unaided. Lets make sure the job is 110% done and maybe we'll get lucky and there'll be some good dwarves left to help us."
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The humans also have survival instincts, such as when everybody agreed not to press on without food, or when the scouts stopped scouting in the Chaos Wastes.
 
DragonParadox said:
OK I have to ask, why are we supposed to put our reputation on the line for these doomed weirdos at the edge of the world? There is no way to maintain constant communication and the Chaos Wastes will wear them down anyway, We can just declare them chaos and walk away secure in the knowledge that no on is ever going to gainsay it and be believed. What is a Daemon of Tzeench going to show up in twenty years and explain in complex detail how they weren't exactly Chaos? The only useful thing they can have for us are:
  1. Artifacts which we can claim we stole from the evil chaos dwarfs
  2. Lore which we can sneak in and sanitize like we did the Liber Mortis
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A: It's the right thing to do.
B: With Karak Vlag restored communications will probably become easier to maintain, greatly increasing the odds of travelling news
C: It's literally the job Belegar sent us here to do
D: Never assume that something isn't going to be a problem just because everybody involved is dead.
E: These fuckers quite possibly managed to convert an immortal Demigod of Chaos, that shit deserves some recongition
 
ReImagined said:
The humans also have survival instincts, such as when everybody agreed not to press on without food, or when the scouts stopped scouting in the Chaos Wastes.
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Survival instinct wise: Heading back into Kurgan territory immediately says "We looked at The Dum and decided we didn't actually want to challenge it. We're too weak." we get raided. We head back in a couple of days and make a show of having come back from a battle and it looks like we fought to a standstill and retreated. We don't get raided.

Without skills and tools we don't have navigating that cliff has a very significant chance of death.

Standing here at the outside of the crater seems pretty much safe. Morghur has seen us and the beastmen aren't charging us. Until we move we're safe.
 
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ReImagined said:
The humans also have survival instincts, such as when everybody agreed not to press on without food, or when the scouts stopped scouting in the Chaos Wastes.
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I have a hard time imagining anybody would be annoyed at us for turning around. We finished our job and spending time in the Chaos Wastes is a very bad idea. They get to go home from what is arguably a successful mission and enjoy the rewards.
 
This is the thing no one to my knowledge has explained HOW any information we gather changes things. The closest is blowing up the karak waystone but if these are choas dwarves that know about the waystones they can corrupt others futher afield. If they arent corrupt there is nothing we can do that will stop the perception that they have fallen.
 
Omegahugger said:
A: It's the right thing to do.
B: With Karak Vlag restored communications will probably become easier to maintain, greatly increasing the odds of travelling news
C: It's literally the job Belegar sent us here to do
D: Never assume that something isn't going to be a problem just because everybody involved is dead.
E: These fuckers quite possibly managed to convert an immortal Demigod of Chaos, that shit deserves some recongition
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Whats the possiblity of persuading the knights by claiming the dwarves of Dum may have weapons against chaos and Dhar taint, with whatever method they use to cleanse them.
 
Omegahugger said:
A: It's the right thing to do.
B: With Karak Vlag restored communications will probably become easier to maintain, greatly increasing the odds of travelling news
C: It's literally the job Belegar sent us here to do
D: Never assume that something isn't going to be a problem just because everybody involved is dead.
E: These fuckers quite possibly managed to convert an immortal Demigod of Chaos, that shit deserves some recongition
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Communication between Vlag and Dum is still almost impossible. Messengers would need to travel above ground likely following the route we took past the Chaos Dwarfs, Skaven, and Dolgan.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
This is the thing no one to my knowledge has explained HOW any information we gather changes things. The closest is blowing up the karak waystone but if these are choas dwarves that know about the waystones they can corrupt others futher afield. If they arent corrupt there is nothing we can do that will stop the perception that they have fallen.
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We actually know what is going on instead of guessing from the clues for starters, and we can gather reinforcements or even build a tower if needed, like the one that vaporize the Waagh, we might even be able to subjugate the kurgans and save them from chaos itself.
 
Omegahugger said:
A: It's the right thing to do.
B: With Karak Vlag restored communications will probably become easier to maintain, greatly increasing the odds of travelling news
C: It's literally the job Belegar sent us here to do
D: Never assume that something isn't going to be a problem just because everybody involved is dead.
E: These fuckers quite possibly managed to convert an immortal Demigod of Chaos, that shit deserves some recongition
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Like Frederick van Hal deserves reputation for his fight against the Skaven...
Which he doesn't have because no one wants to acknowledge even the possibility of of anything Dhar or Chaosy being turned to the good of Order.
Because the most likely outcome is still Corruption and too many would try to imitate the success here and fail.
Costing lives and not merely their own.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
This is the thing no one to my knowledge has explained HOW any information we gather changes things. The closest is blowing up the karak waystone but if these are choas dwarves that know about the waystones they can corrupt others futher afield.
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Given as all the gathering waystones are in Karaks, they probably can't. Conquering an occupied dwarfhold is really really really hard.

If they arent corrupt there is nothing we can do that will stop the perception that they have fallen.
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That's not the main value to talking to them if they're not corrupt. The main value is that we can get repair, resupply, equipment and skills for that damn cliff, and potentially a runelord who knows runecraft that no-one else remembers and is willing to return to the Karaz Ankor to find an apprentice.
 
Travel from vlag to dum is nigh on impossible its actually impossible for the rest of the Karazankor there will be no effort to relieve dum regardless of what we find theyve done stuff that means the kaz will never forgive them. Regardless of why.

Urgh this vote is stressful.
 
LightLan said:
Like Frederick van Hal deserves reputation for his fight against the Skaven...
Which he doesn't have because no one wants to acknowledge even the possibility of of anything Dhar or Chaosy being turned to the good of Order.
Because the most likely outcome is still Corruption and too many would try to imitate the success here and fail.
Costing lives and not merely their own.
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That's the purpose of the expediton, to brave the dangers to find Karag Dum and find out what is going on in that area, of which we are close to finding out.
 
kingreaper said:
Survival instinct wise: Heading back into Kurgan territory immediately says "We looked at The Dum and decided we didn't want to challenge it. We're too weak".
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If the Dolgan don't yet know that we are Southern God worshippers that shit on their values then they are utter fools. They still chose silver over blood.

And if they change their minds after all, well, we were always prepared for that. Other than a considerable blow to morale, all we lost from the last time we weren't sure if they'd keep their word is one Dwarf infantry guy of questionable value and one Demigryph Knight that apparently got bitten by a house.
 
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BoneyM said:
Transport capacity is one (1) Asarnil.
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ok so we get our pal Ranald realllllllyyyyy high and invite Tzeentch to the party and get Tzeencth baked too and then we get the Changeling in on our stoner bro sesh and get a second Asarnil that will swap with the og Asarnil and then turn in to yog-shoggoth when dropped on Karag Dum. With me so far?
 
kingreaper said:
Given as all the gathering waystones are in Karaks, they probably can't. Conquering an occupied dwarfhold is really really really hard.


That's not the main value to talking to them if they're not corrupt. The main value is that we can get repair, resupply, equipment and skills for that damn cliff, and potentially a runelord who knows runecraft that no-one else remembers and is willing to return to the Karaz Ankor to find an apprentice.
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If we accept any help from them, then we too will be assumed corrupt, there is a reason why we did not make it public we were buying food form chaos dwarves.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Travel from vlag to dum is nigh on impossible its actually impossible for the rest of the Karazankor there will be no effort to relieve dum regardless of what we find theyve done stuff that means the kaz will never forgive them. Regardless of why.

Urgh this vote is stressful.
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I wish I could give a like and a hug. This was an interesting experiment but this vote has been chaos incarnate and I understand your stress.
 
I'm going though the remaining councillors (ourself, Snorri, Joerg and Ruprecht) and I'm trying to figure out how they'll react.

Snorri probably wants to go home. Everything after Vlag has probably been a mistake in his eyes, and he wants to figure out how Clan Redbeard fits into the new political situation between Kadrin and Vlag.

Ruprecht probably also wants to go home. He's proven himself an able commander (rallying the wolves at Vlag) and he has ambitions for how the role of the wolves can be expanded. He's canny enough not to want to mess around here without obvious benefit.

Joerg? No clue. We know he has a streak of mysticism, and that the Ice Witch preferred his company to ours (how did they know each other? why does he have a kislev name structured like an imperial one?) I'm actually a little worried he'll want to stay—he's a devout Taalite, and Taal hates beastmen. He might see it as a duty to go on a crusade against the Beastman Demigod before us, and I don't know if we can hold him back if he decides to do that.

Of course, he might just want to Nope out of here as well. Two wings of knights and two wizards is nowhere near enough to take on Morghur, and someone as experienced as he is should know that. Being religious doesn't make you tactically stupid, after all.

To summarise the votes:
Snorri: Leave
Ruprecht: Leave
Joerg: ???
Mathilde: Undecided

Unless we have a really good reason to stick around, we might get outvoted here.
 
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