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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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So I decided to try and figure how exactly how our amulet allowed Orra to survive a direct hit from Dragon fire.


Hearthward itself basically ups a person's vitality, which handily explains how Orra is actually recovering despite her horrendous injuries but that doesn't really explain how she survived to begin with.




Hearthstones naturally consume the Ruby Wind and turn it into comfortable warmth. I imagine the average the Magma Wrym is swimming in it in Aqshy, so I'm wondering if maybe the Rune-enhanced Hearthstone (which is partially made of dragon bone too) somehow consumed a portion of that ruby-infused flame and momentarily shot that vitality buff into the stratosphere? Like an overheal, just increasing her HP so that the flame couldn't kill her.

Another theory is that we know Hearthstone can raise a room's temperature but I wonder if they do the opposite too? I mean as in lowering a hot room's temp into something comfortable? Mayhaps that function had been supercharged too, explaining why the limb holding the amulet remains while those further from it were scorched off.
The Rune of Valaya is antimagic.

Dragonfire is really, REALLY magical.

It's not hard.
 
So I decided to try and figure how exactly how our amulet allowed Orra to survive a direct hit from Dragon fire.


Hearthward itself basically ups a person's vitality, which handily explains how Orra is actually recovering despite her horrendous injuries but that doesn't really explain how she survived to begin with.




Hearthstones naturally consume the Ruby Wind and turn it into comfortable warmth. I imagine the average the Magma Wrym is swimming in it in Aqshy, so I'm wondering if maybe the Rune-enhanced Hearthstone (which is partially made of dragon bone too) somehow consumed a portion of that ruby-infused flame and momentarily shot that vitality buff into the stratosphere? Like an overheal, just increasing her HP so that the flame couldn't kill her.

Another theory is that we know Hearthstone can raise a room's temperature but I wonder if they do the opposite too? I mean as in lowering a hot room's temp into something comfortable? Mayhaps that function had been supercharged too, explaining why the limb holding the amulet remains while those further from it were scorched off.
Aside from the Rune of Valaya the rune of the Furnace also provides heat resistance IIRC. Stick those two things together and you get fire resistance of some level.
 
This as well. Regardless of collectivization issues, since I think those are a separate consideration, I would really like it if the Alchemist work could be accessed and practiced by Dwarves without the Gift.
I really don't see why it couldn't be, non runesmith dwarves make use of runes all the time as tools. Often better than runesmiths do because they have more time to devote to relevant skills, for example Otrek in our gear would be much stronger than Snorri is in it. This is the core of why I don't think we should focus on teaching Alchemy to other runesmiths if you do that you either end up with a runesmith with some alchemy knowledge or you trade a runesmith for an alchemist who can make runes, by comparison if you teach it to a non runesmith the Karaz Ankor gets an alchemist at the cost of a (much less valuable) non runesmith dwarf. We don't have runesmiths micromanaging gromril smelting, they make the smelter and then go their way and let the smiths handle it, this is basis any alchemy guild should use. Runesmiths build the tools alchemists use them and ideally they reverse engineer ways to do without runes in case they can't get access to the necessary runes. This way you don't need to go through the glacially slow growth of alchemists within the runesmiths your method proposes instead you get a dwarvenly slow growth of the alchemists guild as an entirely separate institute, one runesmiths can work with if they so desire and it's no different than when a runelord works with say the engineers guild.

Essentially the way I see the alchemists guild working based on my understanding of how warhammer magic works is that you would have the entirely mundane side of the guild, the chemistry side, this would cover investigating various mundane materials their properties how best to use them etc, they would probably work a lot with other mundane guilds to devolp their respective material sciences (e.g. working with smiths to create the best alloys for different situations or to create better refining process for ores) this hopefully results in inventing stuff like gunpowder early. Due to how magic interacts with most stuff in the warhammer world this would likely have a pretty fuzzy boundary between it and the more magical side which would have dwarves investigating methods of using physical materials and objects to interact with magic. Obviously this side covers a lot of stuff, there's obvious stuff like trying to create potions and elixirs by mixing together magical ingredients and submitting them to various process which is the stereotypical idea of alchemy, this would likely use a mix of mundane and runic tools. There would also be things like investigating the process by which magical materials (e.g. hearthstones) are created. Is it a process that can be deliberately replicated or was it a one off magical spasm that left them behind as a result? Can runes replicate the effect that created them and/or can it be done without them? This is the kind of investigation that would likely need a closer co-operation between alchemists and runesmiths but mundane dwarves can do a lot of the legwork and save runesmiths a lot of time as we've seen with spending favour on the rare places materials.
 
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[X] Plan Chain and A Daughter's Hand

[X] Fire Keeper: Ylva Hearth Hands
[X] Khazid: Accept
 
I really don't see why it couldn't be, non runesmith dwarves make use of runes all the time as tools. Often better than runesmiths do because they have more time to devote to relevant skills, for example Otrek in our gear would be much stronger than Snorri is in it. This is the core of why I don't think we should focus on teaching Alchemy to other runesmiths if you do that you either end up with a runesmith with some alchemy knowledge or you trade a runesmith for an alchemist who can make runes, by comparison if you teach it to a non runesmith the Karaz Ankor gets an alchemist at the cost of a (much less valuable) non runesmith dwarf. We don't have runesmiths micromanaging gromril smelting, they make the smelter and then go their way and let the smiths handle it, this is basis any alchemy guild should use. Runesmiths build the tools alchemists use them and ideally they reverse engineer ways to do without runes in case they can't get access to the necessary runes. This way you don't need to go through the glacially slow growth of alchemists within the runesmiths your method proposes instead you get a dwarvenly slow growth of the alchemists guild as an entirely separate institute, one runesmiths can work with if they so desire and it's no different than when a runelord works with say the engineers guild.

Essentially the way I see the alchemists guild working based on my understanding of how warhammer magic works is that you would have the entirely mundane side of the guild, the chemistry side, this would cover investigating various mundane materials their properties how best to use them etc, they would probably work a lot with other mundane guilds to devolp their respective material sciences (e.g. working with smiths to create the best alloys for different situations or to create better refining process for ores) this hopefully results in inventing stuff like gunpowder early. Due to how magic interacts with most stuff in the warhammer world this would likely have a pretty fuzzy boundary between it and the more magical side which would have dwarves investigating methods of using physical materials and objects to interact with magic. Obviously this side covers a lot of stuff, there's obvious stuff like trying to create potions and elixirs by mixing together magical ingredients and submitting them to various process which is the stereotypical idea of alchemy, this would likely use a mix of mundane and runic tools. There would also be things like investigating the process by which magical materials (e.g. hearthstones) are created. Is it a process that can be deliberately replicated or was it a one off magical spasm that left them behind as a result? Can runes replicate the effect that created them and/or can it be done without them? This is the kind of investigation that would likely need a closer co-operation between alchemists and runesmiths but mundane dwarves can do a lot of the legwork and save runesmiths a lot of time as we've seen with spending favour on the rare places materials.
That'd be the hope yeah. At the moment its going to have to be runesmiths, but something that I think is also worth bringing up is that this might also be a path for low talent Runesmiths to become Alchemists when they might not have had masters at all which expands the possible population of valid students, before such a time as we manage to expand it to non-Runesmith dwarves.
 
That'd be the hope yeah. At the moment its going to have to be runesmiths, but something that I think is also worth bringing up is that this might also be a path for low talent Runesmiths to become Alchemists when they might not have had masters at all which expands the possible population of valid students, before such a time as we manage to expand it to non-Runesmith dwarves.
I think the key thing is that by going down the Deep Magic path if we can determine if blood of Thugni is *needed* to use it or if dwarves can learn to access Deep Magic without said perquisite.

Thugni/Runesmiths/Runelords to me feels like the exception that proves the rule in terms of accessibility of AG. None of the other AG have the 'you need to be literally related to me to take part.' in their clergy/chosen fields and so I think that if we do go the DM/AG angle we should try to keep that pattern.
 
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I think the key thing is that by going down the Deep Magic path if we can determine if blood of Thugni is *needed* to use it or if dwarves can learn to access Deep Magic without said perquisite.
Personally I don't think there's much connection between Deep Magic and Alchemy, but you're probably right in that Deep Magic exploration will end up leading us closer to understanding the connection between Thungni and Runesmiths.
 
Personally I don't think there's much connection between Deep Magic and Alchemy, but you're probably right in that Deep Magic exploration will end up leading us closer to understanding the connection between Thungni and Runesmiths.
Fair fair, I think I'm also getting my desire to see DM as an AG thing mixed up with Alchemy, which is possible to do on its own through the creation of semi-magical brews and such that totally won't homage Deep Rock Galactic's special beers >.>
 
[x] Plan Chain and A Daughter's Hand
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk.
--[X] Eagle-Eyed: Gain 40 Favour +? with Kraka Ornsmotek. There is now a consistent presence of tunnel gnubblers within the mines of Ornsmotek. 1 Retainer Action.
-[X] Dronril, Dronwut: [Cost 6 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc.
--[X] Craftsdwarf Expertise: [Cost: 15 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Gain 1 progress. Can be taken 4 times and without actions. Ask the Masters, and set them loose on what parts of the work they can. Take 4 times.
-[X] The Rune Metal Pt. 1b: [Cost: (8 -2) =6 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. 3 Actions.
--[X] Brotherhood Expertise: [Cost 10 favour from Brotherhood of Dron] Gain 1 progress.Can be taken multiple times and without actions. Call upon the expertise of the Brotherhood to aid in your research. Spend 50 Brotherhood Favor.
-[X] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt.1:
--[X] Accept
-[X] [Difficult] Triage Pt.1: A Princess's Strong Arm and Stout Legs. A terrible business that must be ended and made right to the best of your abilities. Give Orra arms and legs of Adamant, with Hearthstones socketed into her shoulder and shins and bands of Pure Gromril engraved with her lineage.
--[X] Choose: On the arm the Master Rune of Unyielding, Rune of Valaya and Rune of Forged Limb. On the legs, each bears a Rune of Forged Limb. The left leg also bears a Rune of Fortitude and a Rune of Vitality. The right also bears a Rune of the Valiant and Rune of Warding. Every rune associated with Valaya is engraved on a Hearthstone. You'll come back for her eye later. 1 Action.
-[X] Accept
[x] Fire Keeper: Kazrik Straightbeard
[x] Khazid: Accept
 
--[X] Choose: On the arm the Master Rune of Unyielding, Rune of Valaya and Rune of Forged Limb. On the legs, each bears a Rune of Forged Limb. The left leg also bears a Rune of Fortitude and a Rune of Vitality. The right also bears a Rune of the Valiant and Rune of Warding. Every rune associated with Valaya is engraved on a Hearthstone. You'll come back for her eye later. 1 Action.
Doesn't a rune of traversal make more sense for the legs? Or light foot. Or really anything that helps with walking.
 
I really feel like we should try to complete the Rune Metal P5 to discover how to create Gromril T5, then trade said information with the Brotherhood for Standing and favor.

Then snowball that favor to advance Rune Metal 1b. Thought even without that, just knowing how to improve Adamant to T5 would be amazing considering just how strong our armor is.
 
I really feel like we should try to complete the Rune Metal P5 to discover how to create Gromril T5, then trade said information with the Brotherhood for Standing and favor.


Step five is figuring out how the theoretical t5 metal exists, like how step 1 was figuring our how pure gromril was metaphysically impure. With no real way to TEST that other than our hunch. On it's own step 5 is worthless, we'd need more than that to get anything.
 
Another theory is that we know Hearthstone can raise a room's temperature but I wonder if they do the opposite too? I mean as in lowering a hot room's temp into something comfortable? Mayhaps that function had been supercharged too, explaining why the limb holding the amulet remains while those further from it were scorched off.
I figure it can absorb excess Aqshy to reduce the ambient level to a certain point.
 
One of the things that I am happy about regarding just how much protection the Wrymheart amulet gave is that none of the runes on it were master runes, and yet it still allowed the wearer to survive a full-on Magma Wyrm attack.

Just goes to show that it doesn't take a master rune to craft something amazing and, with the right tools, skills, and knowledge, a work of massive runic might can be created from the simplest of runes.
 
Hearthward is probably the best example we've made of what alchemy might let us do right? It looks like the runes combo'd with the hearthstones to boost their effect and made the whole thing a lot better than it would be on it's own.
 
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