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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] Plan Build That Hold and Poke A Potato
[X] Plan Build That Hold and Take A Walk
[x] Plan: Gift Giver - Karak crafter, Odd delver, Tuber tester
[X] Plan Build That Hold and Rune Metal
 
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This might come out badly formatted, but I am trying to use the add votes bit beneath this.

[x] Plan: Return of the Gift Giver - All in edition
[x] Plan Build That Hold and Take A Walk
-[X] Odd Places 8/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. 1 Action.
-[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
-[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. This is a great deal of work, one devoted wholly to crafting, ordering and coordinating with the survivors of Dum to properly supply them with the material necessary to found a Hold. While technically less difficult, the sheer scale of material required will be more than enough to make such a thing quite the daunting task indeed. 2 Apprentice Actions. 2 Actions.
--[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1 progress. You have some amount of influence on King Otrek. Normally you have little need or desire to ask him for aid, much to his dismay, but here the pull and weight of a King can be of great use. At the very least it will help the man lessen the crushing weight of the debt he and his Clan owe you. Sometimes you wonder if you went overboard. Bah, nonsense! 50 Kraka Drakk Favor
-[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] Due whenever.

--[X] Accept
[x] Plan Build That Hold and Poke A Potato
-[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
-[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. This is a great deal of work, one devoted wholly to crafting, ordering and coordinating with the survivors of Dum to properly supply them with the material necessary to found a Hold. While technically less difficult, the sheer scale of material required will be more than enough to make such a thing quite the daunting task indeed. 2 Apprentice Actions. 2 Actions.
--[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1 progress. You have some amount of influence on King Otrek. Normally you have little need or desire to ask him for aid, much to his dismay, but here the pull and weight of a King can be of great use. At the very least it will help the man lessen the crushing weight of the debt he and his Clan owe you. Sometimes you wonder if you went overboard. Bah, nonsense! 50 Kraka Drakk Favor
-[X] Durazkul: [Cost: (4 -3) =1 action] Student of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc.
-[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] Due whenever.

--[X] Accept

EDIT: Interesting! This is pretty good functionality.
 
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[X] Plan: Return of the Gift Giver

I like this quest for two simple things: researching and FLEXING.
This? This is flexing in it's purest form.
Snorrimass came early, plaitlings.
 
[X] Plan Build That Hold and Take A Walk
[X] Plan Build That Hold and Rune Metal

It would be nice not to stupidly overflow everything and I'm not a fan of the leading plan not involving the apprentices at all for the hold action.
 
[X] Plan Build That Hold and Take A Walk

I really don't understand the overflow. We're sure we'll get a better result because of it?
 
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[X] Plan Build That Hold and Take A Walk

I really don't understand the overflow. We're sure we'll get a better result because of it?

There's some nebulous cutoff where overflow stops mattering, but nobody knows exactly where it is for a particular project. The leading plan might overspend on effective actions or it might not; personally, I suspect it does. This project is different from the big underway excavation in the sense that Snorri's not finishing it by personally taking on an insane workload (by his own standards), but rather by browbeating a lot of other people to contribute to the supply effort, so there's less room for Snorri shenanigans of the "I made a giant robot in my spare time after finishing the job twice over" variety. The settlers are going to get a lot more than they're asking for, but they're getting it because Snorri's playing politician and he's got a lot of political capital to burn. The story being told is different from previous maximum overflow escapades, even if the results are similar strictly as a matter of arithmetic.

In any case, no, we're not sure going from effective 10 actions to effective 12 will yield better results (although, in fairness, we can't be certain it definitely won't, either).
 
There's some nebulous cutoff where overflow stops mattering, but nobody knows exactly where it is for a particular project. The leading plan might overspend on effective actions or it might not; personally, I suspect it does. This project is different from the big underway excavation in the sense that Snorri's not finishing it by personally taking on an insane workload (by his own standards), but rather by browbeating a lot of other people to contribute to the supply effort, so there's less room for Snorri shenanigans of the "I made a giant robot in my spare time after finishing the job twice over" variety. The settlers are going to get a lot more than they're asking for, but they're getting it because Snorri's playing politician and he's got a lot of political capital to burn. The story being told is different from previous maximum overflow escapades, even if the results are similar strictly as a matter of arithmetic.

In any case, no, we're not sure going from effective 10 actions to effective 12 will yield better results (although, in fairness, we can't be certain it definitely won't, either).
The way I interpret the leading two plans with regards to Snorri shenanigans is that the leading plan has Snorri essentially getting Otrek to provide the entirety of the tools needed plus a little extra. Then on top of that it has Snorri doing an amount of work equal to what a regular Runelord could achieve in a decade so he can do effectively 10 "runelordyears" worth of shenanigans. The second plan has Snorri getting less aid from Otrek, just under the amount needed but it has his apprentices making up the difference so the total aid from others is equal, it then has Snorri doing work equal to 6 runelordyears which he can devote to shenanigans.
 
So, I would like to expound a bit more on my previous argument regarding the Rune Metal. Particularly, why we should pursue it diligently and achieve the goals it promises.

In this argument, I hope to express, explain, and, hopefully, share my passion and enthusiasm for this branch of research. So, without further ado, let's begin.

Snorri Gift-Giver is an inspirational figure to many Dwarves around him. Where he walks, assistance arrives. What he crafts is fit for Kings and can even crown them. His apprentices have become masters in their own right and his legacy is as enduring as Kraka Drakk. Also, none of that was expected of him. Snorri comes from a clan with a distant relation to Thungni, he had a blisteringly short apprenticeship before beginning his journeying, and every scrap of knowledge, every coin of wealth, every recognizable deed was gathered with hands of skill and a will of iron. He is a runelord that every apprentice from any clan can point to and say "I can do that." He may be odd, he may be strange, he may be a bit off, but he is inspiring and it is known.

Bara is working to the bone to achieve the same metal that Snorri unveiled.

Valma initiated a trade of Runic knowledge for the insight needed to delve deeper in to the Deep Magic.

Lorna took it upon herself to begin training apprentices and working on the Rune of Transcription.

The Brotherhood of Dron now has a new method of generating Adamant, the metal they seek after with all they have.

All of these were results of Snorri Gift-Giver working on becoming the peak of his craft, of studying the mysteries of the world and understanding them. He has never settled for not striving to be the best that he can be. Not because it is the challenge that drives him, although it may be something to look forward to. Not because of the prestige it grants, he has more than he ever dreamed of. Not because of the individuals it allows him to meet, he has met the Ancestor Gods and has worked at their sufferance. I think it is because it allows him to be the most useful to the most amount of people. No matter how many pickaxes he crafts, how many hammers he forges, how many breastplates he measures, how many holds he lays the foundations of there are more ways he can be useful.

He can inspire all around him to ever greater heights, to show every Dwarf that the limits are not where one might imagine them to be. That with sufficient will and sufficient skill craftsmanship that was thought to only belong to the Gods can be grasped by the hands of a mortal. And that is a wonderous thing. It is one thing to look at the Ancestor Gods and say "I can not reach those heights" and another thing to look at a fellow Dwarf who had no inherent advantage by dint of birth or training and say "I can not reach those heights."

Breaking into the realm thought only to be the domain of the Gods challenges every other Dwarf who learns of the feat, not just runesmiths, to aspire to be better than what they thought possible. That the limitations there are to mortal craftsmanship and skill are not barriers, but challenges to be overcome in an eternal process of betterment. What works the Ancestor's Gods produced were not to delineate the line between mortal and divine but to provoke and challenge the mortals to reach ever further.

There are, admittedly, many things that Snorri could do to help inspire others. Researching Deep Magic ever further and expanding that field. Inventing whole new avenues of prosthetics to improve the lives of the average dwarf. Crafting wonders beyond the imagination of young runesmith apprentices. But, I think, the clearest and most potent avenue towards this level of inspiration is to seek the Rune Metal. To seek the ultimate expression of the metal held most dear by Dwarves and seek the craftsmanship with that metal thought exclusive to that of the Gods.

And that is why I want to diligently pursue this avenue of research. So that Snorri can climb the highest peaks of skill he can see, and stand before a vista of towering mountains capped in the whitest snow. Then turn around, grasp the forearm of the next dwarf and haul them up to the same place he is before moving forward to the next height. And the Rune Metal is one of the heights peaks that I can see in our branch of research that we can inspire others to reach as well.
 
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So, I would like to expound a bit more on my previous argument regarding the Rune Metal. Particularly, why we should pursue it diligently and achieve the goals it promises.

In this argument, I hope to express, explain, and, hopefully, share my passion and enthusiasm for this branch of research. So, without further ado, let's begin.

Snorri Gift-Giver is an inspirational figure to many Dwarves around him. Where he walks, assistance arrives. What he crafts is fit for Kings and can even crown them. His apprentices have become masters in their own right and his legacy is as enduring as Kraka Drakk. Also, none of that was expected of him. Snorri comes from a clan with a distant relation to Thungni, he had a blisteringly short apprenticeship before beginning his journeying, and every scrap of knowledge, every coin of wealth, every recognizable deed was gathered with hands of skill and a will of iron. He is a runelord that every apprentice from any clan can point to and say "I can do that." He may be odd, he may be strange, he may be a bit off, but he is inspiring and it is known.

Bara is working to the bone to achieve the same metal that Snorri unveiled.

Valma initiated a trade of Runic knowledge for the insight needed to delve deeper in to the Deep Magic.

Lorna took it upon herself to begin training apprentices and working on the Rune of Transcription.

The Brotherhood of Dron now has a new method of generating Adamant, the metal they seek after with all they have.

All of these were results of Snorri Gift-Giver working on becoming the peak of his craft, of studying the mysteries of the world and understanding them. He has never settled for not striving to be the best that he can be. Not because it is the challenge that drives him, although it may be something to look forward to. Not because of the prestige it grants, he has more than he ever dreamed of. Not because of the individuals it allows him to meet, he has met the Ancestor Gods and has worked at their sufferance. I think it is because it allows him to be the most useful to the most amount of people. No matter how many pickaxes he crafts, how many hammers he forges, how many breastplates he measures, how many holds he lays the foundations of there are more ways he can be useful.

He can inspire all around him to ever greater helps, to show every Dwarf that the limits are not where one might imagine them to be. That with sufficient will and sufficient skill craftsmanship that was thought to only belong to the Gods can be grasped by the hands of a mortal. And that is a wonderous thing. It is one thing to look at the Ancestor Gods and say "I can not reach those heights" and another thing to look at a fellow Dwarf who had no inherent advantage by dint of birth or training and say "I can not reach those heights."

Breaking into the realm thought only to be the domain of the Gods challenges every other Dwarf who learns of the feat, not just runesmiths, to aspire to be better than what they thought possible. That the limitations there are to mortal craftsmanship and skill are not barriers, but challenges to be overcome in an eternal process of betterment. What works the Ancestor's Gods produced were not to delineate the line between mortal and divine but to provoke and challenge the mortals to reach ever further.

There are, admittedly, many things that Snorri could do to help inspire others. Researching Deep Magic ever further and expanding that field. Inventing whole new avenues of prosthetics to improve the lives of the average dwarf. Crafting wonders beyond the imagination of young runesmith apprentices. But, I think, the clearest and most potent avenue towards this level of inspiration is to seek the Rune Metal. To seek the ultimate expression of the metal held most dear by Dwarves and seek the craftsmanship with that metal thought exclusive to that of the Gods.

And that is why I want to diligently pursue this avenue of research. So that Snorri can climb the highest peaks of skill he can see, and stand before a vista of towering mountains capped in the whitest snow. Then turn around, grasp the forearm of the next dwarf and haul them up to the same place he is before moving forward to the next height. And the Rune Metal is one of the heights peaks that I can see in our branch of research that we can inspire others to reach as well.
Unless a part 2 to this hold founding pops up, I think we have a chance of rune metal winning next turn. I would like to have either a bar or a chain done before Smednir leaves just to complete the set.
 
So, I would like to expound a bit more on my previous argument regarding the Rune Metal. Particularly, why we should pursue it diligently and achieve the goals it promises.

In this argument, I hope to express, explain, and, hopefully, share my passion and enthusiasm for this branch of research. So, without further ado, let's begin.

Snorri Gift-Giver is an inspirational figure to many Dwarves around him. Where he walks, assistance arrives. What he crafts is fit for Kings and can even crown them. His apprentices have become masters in their own right and his legacy is as enduring as Kraka Drakk. Also, none of that was expected of him. Snorri comes from a clan with a distant relation to Thungni, he had a blisteringly short apprenticeship before beginning his journeying, and every scrap of knowledge, every coin of wealth, every recognizable deed was gathered with hands of skill and a will of iron. He is a runelord that every apprentice from any clan can point to and say "I can do that." He may be odd, he may be strange, he may be a bit off, but he is inspiring and it is known.

Bara is working to the bone to achieve the same metal that Snorri unveiled.

Valma initiated a trade of Runic knowledge for the insight needed to delve deeper in to the Deep Magic.

Lorna took it upon herself to begin training apprentices and working on the Rune of Transcription.

The Brotherhood of Dron now has a new method of generating Adamant, the metal they seek after with all they have.

All of these were results of Snorri Gift-Giver working on becoming the peak of his craft, of studying the mysteries of the world and understanding them. He has never settled for not striving to be the best that he can be. Not because it is the challenge that drives him, although it may be something to look forward to. Not because of the prestige it grants, he has more than he ever dreamed of. Not because of the individuals it allows him to meet, he has met the Ancestor Gods and has worked at their sufferance. I think it is because it allows him to be the most useful to the most amount of people. No matter how many pickaxes he crafts, how many hammers he forges, how many breastplates he measures, how many holds he lays the foundations of there are more ways he can be useful.

He can inspire all around him to ever greater heights, to show every Dwarf that the limits are not where one might imagine them to be. That with sufficient will and sufficient skill craftsmanship that was thought to only belong to the Gods can be grasped by the hands of a mortal. And that is a wonderous thing. It is one thing to look at the Ancestor Gods and say "I can not reach those heights" and another thing to look at a fellow Dwarf who had no inherent advantage by dint of birth or training and say "I can not reach those heights."

Breaking into the realm thought only to be the domain of the Gods challenges every other Dwarf who learns of the feat, not just runesmiths, to aspire to be better than what they thought possible. That the limitations there are to mortal craftsmanship and skill are not barriers, but challenges to be overcome in an eternal process of betterment. What works the Ancestor's Gods produced were not to delineate the line between mortal and divine but to provoke and challenge the mortals to reach ever further.

There are, admittedly, many things that Snorri could do to help inspire others. Researching Deep Magic ever further and expanding that field. Inventing whole new avenues of prosthetics to improve the lives of the average dwarf. Crafting wonders beyond the imagination of young runesmith apprentices. But, I think, the clearest and most potent avenue towards this level of inspiration is to seek the Rune Metal. To seek the ultimate expression of the metal held most dear by Dwarves and seek the craftsmanship with that metal thought exclusive to that of the Gods.

And that is why I want to diligently pursue this avenue of research. So that Snorri can climb the highest peaks of skill he can see, and stand before a vista of towering mountains capped in the whitest snow. Then turn around, grasp the forearm of the next dwarf and haul them up to the same place he is before moving forward to the next height. And the Rune Metal is one of the heights peaks that I can see in our branch of research that we can inspire others to reach as well.
see I am not oppsed to do this but I would rarther focus on some smaller things, the light one, prothestic, kholeck brain reaserch exc before taking on this herculean task
 
(*New*)[ ] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc.
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- [ ] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1 progress. You have some amount of influence on King Otrek. Normally you have little need or desire to ask him for aid, much to his dismay, but here the pull and weight of a King can be of great use. At the very least it will help the man lessen the crushing weight of the debt he and his Clan owe you. Sometimes you wonder if you went overboard. Bah, nonsense!
Kraka Drakk, "The Dragon Hold," Standing 10, Favours 555
Weight of a King, if 50-ish favor is enough material support for a Runelord to consider it "all he can give".

Edit: One wonders, is there any God with a sacred number of "5"? Favours: 555
Bolgi Dolgisson is a better name than Dolgi Dolgisson
I shall wait for his next kid, Colgi Dolgisson.
The Skaven are scared of digging too deep.
I'm now thinking of the Skavens digging under their enemy Clans holding, with the express purpose to wake those horrors up.
 
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Huh, I thought we had more than 1 overflow on Movement of Things.

Anyway, I see Dolgi is carrying on his plan to take over the Karaz Ankor with his descendants. I bet this one will be a runemisth, too. Haven't they all been thus far?
 
[X] Plan: Team Inspiration
-[X] Render Aid: 1 retainer action
-[X] Hold Founding: 2 apprentice action
--[X] Clerical Aid: 10 Favour from the Cult of Valaya
--[X] A Favour from Otrek: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk
-[X] The Rune Metal Pt. 1b: 3 actions
-[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request:
--[X] Accept
@Thor's Twin has voted for [ ] Plan Build That Hold and Rune Metal if you want to consolidate.
 
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