- Location
- yorkshire
[X] Plan Versatile
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
This feels more interesting than another tower. Let's see what comes of it.
This feels more interesting than another tower. Let's see what comes of it.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Nothing useful, it's a battle magic spell, any dragon of the ice dragons tier could just dispel it.
- Location
- Utrecht
Changing vote because it's awesome
[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
well... your not actually casting it at the dragon.
you just need to spot him before he gets in range and do it before
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
Look, this does technically count as ensorcelling a dragon skeleton and using it to kill the dragon with.
Look, this does technically count as ensorcelling a dragon skeleton and using it to kill the dragon with.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
That doesn't matter.
Battle magic counter spelling can be done at longer range than spells can target enemies.
Transformation of Kadon is a 16 favour item.
Last edited:
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
We could just dispel their dispelling, you know? Losing in anything is possible; 'could' doesn't mean 'would succeed', for us or them, and dismissing an option because enemies won't line up for it like lambs is kind of defeatist.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
[X] Plan: Fight Dragon with Dragon
Because lets be honest being able to essentially pull a Dragon out of nowhere would be an effective tool in a lot of situations.
Because lets be honest being able to essentially pull a Dragon out of nowhere would be an effective tool in a lot of situations.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
No you can't. Counter spelling isn't a formal spell. It's a ball of magic used to disrupt the enemy caster.
Like I think you're all underestimating how difficult it will be for this item to be of any use against the Ice dragon, if that's your aim. It's the hardest beast lore battle magic spell in the spell list to cast.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also dispelling is not garunteed (Though I am more in favour of a conventional solution myself). To game it out in the 8E tt rules would depend on how powerful the bound spell was (boundspells mitigate a lot of the risk as well) but given that boosted ToK is such a powerful spell a bound version would be very hard to dispell even for a level 4 wizard (which a emperor dragon is not neccesserially, though ours probably is). This plan might also be used on other threats as well.
and I think you are massivly overselling the ease of dispelling magic at all. Let alone this particuallar spell. I remind you that the power powerful a spell the harder it is to dispell.
and I think you are massivly overselling the ease of dispelling magic at all. Let alone this particuallar spell. I remind you that the power powerful a spell the harder it is to dispell.
Last edited:
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Yes you can. This was brought up when discussing the operation of the Eye; the person casting the spell can interfere with interference attempts, because neither are concrete spells. It's most certainly not a ball.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Given that battle magic is fantastically more dangerous in this setting than even the table top, I'm concerned at the idea that the most powerful spell in the battle beast lore list will some how be safe merely because it's an item.
Do you recall any terms that might have been used by Boney and I'll see if I can find it? Also if the idea is to give a non-caster the ability to turn into a dragon they're going to be able to do nothing to stop the guy trying to stop them turning into a dragon. If it's being given to a wizard then unless they're beast mages we're running into the problem that Boney always gives us that Dhar will be a huge problem when mixing winds.
I mean, maybe but that assumes that the bound spell can cast at all. Bound spells in TT terms don't get a wizard bonus, so hitting the TN is very hard for a spell like this. I think this is asking for a big problem.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I said mitigate not remove and if you want to avoid dangerous magic items then the only plan that currently does that is Plan: Skavenslayer with Less Vague Artillery. Everything else either relies of powerful and dangerous magic or on magic that I honestly believe is not powerful enough for the task.
The core thing is that if battlemagic spells as bound weapons didn't work then arcane battle alters would not be a thing. Again, I don't even think this is a good plan. I just think you arguements are mistaken.
The wizard bonus was only a +1 to a +4. Not exactly huge when dealing with a boosted ToK. The important part was how many dice you rolled for it and a bound spell in 8E didn't miscast.
The core thing is that if battlemagic spells as bound weapons didn't work then arcane battle alters would not be a thing. Again, I don't even think this is a good plan. I just think you arguements are mistaken.
Last edited:
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Technically, they do. It just breaks the item, rather than killing the caster, or opening a hole to the Realm of Chaos.
- Location
- United States of America
I'm sorry, but does the Dragon flight idea plan on using Dwarfs, transforming them into dragons, and then using them to battle another dragon? That seems... unwise.
Dwarves are naturally resistant to magic, but we do have some evidence as to what happens when dwarves have magic coursing through their bodies. They turn into stone, aka the Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers. While that may not happen, it does seem like it would be a bad idea to surge so much magic through a Dwarf.
Another problem that I see is that Dwarfs don't really like Dragons, due to the numerous grudges against their kind. Convincing a dwarf to willingly transform into a Dragon seems like it will be difficult, given their prior dislike to magic which will compound with their dislike of dragons.
Dwarves are naturally resistant to magic, but we do have some evidence as to what happens when dwarves have magic coursing through their bodies. They turn into stone, aka the Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers. While that may not happen, it does seem like it would be a bad idea to surge so much magic through a Dwarf.
Another problem that I see is that Dwarfs don't really like Dragons, due to the numerous grudges against their kind. Convincing a dwarf to willingly transform into a Dragon seems like it will be difficult, given their prior dislike to magic which will compound with their dislike of dragons.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes but not the way @SuperSonicSound has been worrying about and I'm trying to avoid leaning to hard on the TT rules because Boney have been clear that they are not using them as holy writ.
Also I just don't want to do a detailed write up on out of print spell casting rules for a dead game today. I have better things to do.
No it doesn't. It explicitly says so in the plan.
- Location
- United States of America
You mean... this part?
Where it explicitly says that it "Can only be activated by a Dwarf not currently being transformed." Seems to me that it implies the Dwarf is the one activating the item and then transformed by the alter.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Why does that matter? We're not paying for it in personal favor. We're paying for it in Belegar Rulez.
Wait, so because one magic item can be counterspelled you instead vote for the other magic item? I don't understand.
But launching Urannon's battle magic spell from where we have all of our multi-colored towers is a-okay? Because that's the plan that's currently winning plan.
Again, this applies to all magic items we can provide. And "tell your two runelords to come up with some cool AA siege" is probably not what Belegar had in mind. So what do you actually want?
No. It ideally uses the Undumgi or some other loyal human. But making it specifically impossible to be used by Dwarves even in a pinch seems kinda pointless.
The idea is that anyone can be transformed, but only if a Dwarf wills it. And even a rogue Dwarf can't transform alone. Essentially it is a two man item. One target that becomes a dragon and one Dwarf with a key that approves of the target becoming a dragon. Do you have a better phrasing for that?
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sorry. I was thinking of this post.
but it does not actually say that.
Evidently I had just assumed. Others have also been assuming that it would be used on humans. Again though. This is just plans (and I guess fesability studies? Othwise not sure why we can't just do them all.) It would be worth finding out in-universe if Dwarfs cannot be effected or react negativly to being effected by transformation spells.
If a tower gets counter-spelled the lightning fizzles until the next round, if a person transformed by the altar gets counter-spelled they go splat.
- Location
- United States of America
Yes.
"Only a Dwarf can activate it and transform another willing person."
This makes it clear that it requires two willing participants, one which must be a dwarf, and the other person is the one being transformed.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The spell is not a constant upkeep effect. It is one spell to transform and then the casting wizard (or arcane alter in this case) can "end" the spell as an active effect. Thats how all the lore of beasts transformation spells work.