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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Hard to choose between the extra EC crew in BVs plan (which I like) but it also comes with early spending on Engineering ships we can't start for three quarters, which bothers me.
 
Alliterate said:
Hard to choose between the extra EC crew in BVs plan (which I like) but it also comes with early spending on Engineering ships we can't start for three quarters, which bothers me.
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As I argued in chat, the Engineering ship situation isn't going to be different next year. We order it in the Snakepit and then we start it in the next year. That's how it's worked with the previous engineering ships we've ordered.

Just to make it clear, in 2322.Q2 Snakepit we bought some engineering ships. We ordered them in the 2323 Shipyard Ops, commencing in 2323.Q2 (for reasons of berth juggling).

In the 2323.Q2 Snakepit we ordered another pair of engineering ships. We started them in 2324.Q1 Shipyard Ops.

That's how it works. That's how it's always worked. I have no idea where you're getting the idea we would order them in Snakepit and then start them immediately. Ships are ordered in Shipyard Ops.
 
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Raw90 With Derpmind Diplo
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Briefvoice With Derpmind Diplo
 
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Well then, that's the way it works. The sequence and delay still bothers me, from an efficiency standpoint. But your plan has EC crew, and new Ambassadors take an additional five(?) crew units over the previous builder. I'm not sure what Raw has but yours doesn't, but...

[][COUNCIL] No Starbase Loss Briefvoice Snakepit 2326
 
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[X][COUNCIL] Sunrise's no starbase Snakepit 2326
  • Request Research Colony Hill 361 Archive, N'Lask, 9pp, 2 cp, 4 (6.5) rp/year, 4 turns (Sol; may not be transferred to United Earth)
  • Request Mining Colony 23 Levar VIII, 12pp, 2 cp, 15 (35) sr/year, 4 turns (GBZ)
  • Request Mining Colony LM-34-V-XL, 14pp, 2 cp, 20 (35) br/yr, 4 turns (Tellar)
  • Request Mining Colony V'Ten, 10 (25) br/year, 15 (35) sr/year, 4 turns (GBZ)
  • Request Academy Development, 30pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
  • Request Explorer Corps Annex Development, 25pp (Gain +0.15 EC O/E/T throughput)
  • Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony Qendip III, 10 (25) br/year) (Rethelia; pass to Ataami) +10pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Bolians) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Tauni) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Sydraxians) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Ashidi) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Morshadd Commune) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request to start a ship refit project, 20pp, 2 turns for frigates ("low crew" Kepler refit)
  • Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Command, 75pp (Permanently gain +3pt under control of Vice Admiral)
  • Request an increase in the Research budget, 70pp, +1 yearly Breakthrough.
  • Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1pt of Intel Spending on reports for powers on that border. (Imelak Border Zone), 20pp
  • Request that an eccentric and esoteric Gaeni defensive project be approved: Dreamer Ranger Gear, 50pp, 20sr, 2 turns
  • Request resources for an extra Starfleet Intelligence Operations task group (Will add a Science-heavy event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year, (Offense)
  • Request Civil Service cooperation for an early Law Enforcement task group (Will add a balanced event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year
  • (9ep used below)
  • Request new Auxiliary Shipyard at <Fiiral>, 3ep, 45pp, (12 turns, 1x2mt, 4x1mt Berth)
  • Upgrade Convoy Waystations in a particular Sector, 2 ep, 40pp, 4 turns (Gabriel Border Zone)
  • Request new Sensor Platform in a system or map square – (Map Square C5, for Kelowna Front) will add an event card to rebuff raiders on that front. 1ep, 10pp
  • Request new Sensor Platform in a system or map square – (Becarra System, for Okatha Front) will add an event card to rebuff raiders on that front. 1ep, 10pp
  • Upgrade Convoy Waystations in a particular Sector, 2 ep, 40pp, 4 turns (Paddah Sector)
  • 8 extra engineering points from members = 40 pp
  • = 675 pp total
The main change with my old plan is replacing the starbase trap with a research budget increase and giving the Ataami a BR colony to get them to affiliates allowing a push on the Sydraxians.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Currently 3 4 plans:
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My plan has Defense Tactical, not Science. Also only one Waystation.

Thanks for the comparison though.

Raw90 said:
[X][COUNCIL] Raw90 Safe Snakepit 2326
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Looking at our Task Groups, our defence lacks in Combat, not Science. Offense needs Science. I recommend taking Starfleet Tactical instead.

You can buy Explorer Corps Annex by dropping one Listening Post. They aren't good, what with effectively buying 1 locked Intel Point per year for 80pp, compared to 75pp for an Intel Point we can use for anything, or 3 points that we can't control.

Briefvoice said:
[X][COUNCIL] No Starbase Loss Briefvoice Snakepit 2326
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Why are you buying a colony that is in same area of space as one that is strictly cheaper and better, with -2pp +25br/y and the same SR output?


As the starbase gambit seems rather unpopular surprisingly, here is a variant of my plan without it.

[X][COUNCIL] Enerael Snakepit 2326 No Trap
  • Request Research Colony Hill 361 Archive, N'Lask, 9pp, 2 cp, 4 (6.5) rp/year, 4 turns (Sol; may not be transferred to United Earth)
  • Request Mining Colony V'Ten, 10 (25) br/year, 15 (35) sr/year, 4 turns (GBZ)
  • Request Mining Colony LM-34-V-XL, 14pp, 2 cp, 20 (35) br/yr, 4 turns (Tellar)
  • Request Research Colony Morgana-1321, 2 (4.5) rp/year, 4 turns (GBZ)
  • Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony Qendip III, 10 (25) br/year) (Rethelia; Attami)
  • Request Academy Development, 30pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
  • Request Explorer Corps Annex Development, 25pp (Gain +0.15 EC O/E/T throughput)
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Yrillians) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Tauni) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Sydraxians) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Ashidi) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Misek TAG - [A Bad Neighbourhood]) [Can be taken up to five times]
  • Request an increase in the Research budget, 70pp, +1 yearly Breakthrough.
  • Request to start a ship refit project, 20pp, 2 turns for frigates ("low crew" Kepler refit)
  • Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Command, 75pp (Permanently gain +3pt under control of Vice Admiral)
  • Request allocation to expand Colony Command, 60pp, will allow 2 x Colony Ships to be built in Starfleet line yards, providing 2 cp on completion.
  • Request that an eccentric and esoteric Gaeni defensive project be approved: Dreamer Ranger Gear, 50pp, 20sr, 2 turns
  • Request resources for an extra Starfleet Intelligence Tactical task group (Will add a Combat-heavy event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year, (Defense)
  • Request resources for an extra Starfleet Intelligence Operations task group (Will add a Science-heavy event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year, (Offense)
  • (9ep used below)
  • Request new Auxiliary Shipyard at <Fiiral>, 3ep, 45pp, (12 turns, 1x2mt, 4x1mt Berth)
  • Request new Outposts on 4 Rimward BZ Federation Colonies, 2 ep, 10pp
  • Request new Sensor Platform in a system or map square – (Map Square C5, for Kelowna Front) will add an event card to rebuff raiders on that front. 1ep, 10pp
  • Upgrade Convoy Waystations in a particular Sector, 2 ep, 40pp, 4 turns (Paddah Sector)
  • 7 extra engineering points from members = 35 pp
  • = 673, 7pp remaining

Changes from my original plan:

Dropped the Singer Starbase Trap.

Bought Colony Ships with those PPs. We can buy member EPs, have some Eng Ships coming of the berths soon, and finishing projects will also free a bunch, while we need more colony ships to chew through our colony backlog and only a single one will come off aux berths in the foreseeable future, in 2330 no less.

Had spare PP, so I took an Offensive Science Task Group, as our offensive lineup seems to be a weak there.

Edit: Sunrise had a great idea, had to drop one Sensor Platform to make it work though. Colony passed to the Ataami instead to affiliate them. Older plan had the PP slack to do that without any sacrifice, also edited.


[X][COUNCIL] Enerael Snakepit 2326


Edit:
sunrise said:
Just realised if we give the Ataami a single colony they become affilliates without a diplomatic push, the closest colony to them seems to be
  • Request Mining Colony Qendip III, 7pp, 2 cp, 10 (25) br/year, 4 turns (Rethelia)
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Great idea! Edited my plans.

You are buying a strictly worse and more expensive colony btw, like BV.

Also, passing the colony to Ataami gives no PP.
 
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Comparison of No Starbase Trap plans:

[][COUNCIL] Raw90 Safe Snakepit 2326
25BR+35SR Colony, passes colony to STO, no EC Annex, two Listening Posts, no Eng Ships, Defensive S Task Group, Balanced Task Group

[][COUNCIL] No Starbase Loss Briefvoice Snakepit 2326
35SR colony, passes no colony, two Listening Posts, Eng ships, Offensive S Task Group, Balanced Task Group, no Intel Points

[][COUNCIL] Sunrise's no starbase Snakepit 2326
35SR colony, passes colony to Ataami to affiliate them, different Diplopushes (Bolians and Morshaad Commune instead of Yrrilians and the Misek), one Listening Post, no Eng ships, Offensive S Task Group, Balanced Task Group,

[][COUNCIL] Enerael Snakepit 2326 No Trap
25BR+35SR Colony, passes colony to Ataami to affiliate them, no Listening Posts, no Eng Ships, Colony Ships, Offensive S Task Group, Defensive C Task Group, Rimward BZ Outposts, no GBZ Waystation, one less Sensor Platform
 
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[X][COUNCIL] No Starbase Loss Briefvoice Snakepit 2326
[X][COUNCIL] Sunrise's no starbase Snakepit 2326

Changing my vote now that there are more plans without the Starbase trap.
 
[X][COUNCIL] Afforess Snakepit 2326
  • Request Research Colony Hill 361 Archive, N'Lask, 9pp, 2 cp, 4 (6.5) rp/year, 4 turns (Sol; may not be transferred to United Earth)
    • 680-9=671pp
  • Request Mining Colony Nailia's Gift, 21 pp, 2 cp, 30 (45) br/year, 5 turns (m7)
    • 671-21=650pp
  • Request Mining Colony V'Ten, 10 (25) br/year, 15 (35) sr/year, 4 turns (GBZ)
    • 650-10=640pp
  • Request Research Colony HKP-426, 12 pp, 2 cp, 3 (5.5) pp/year, 4 turns (-8f)
    • 640-12=628pp
  • Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony Kr'ritti V, 12pp, 2 cp, 15 (35) sr/year, 4 turns (Ferasa; pass to Caitian Cooperative)
    • 628+10=638pp
  • Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony Aeneid III, 12pp, 2 cp, 15 (35) sr/year, 4 turns (Tellar; pass to Tellar State)
    • 638+10=648pp
  • Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony Qendip III, 10 (25) br/year) (Rethelia; pass to Sarqel Treaty Organization
    )
    • 648+10=658pp
  • Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony Quawxa-303 IX, 15 (30) br/year, 4 turns (Sol; pass to United Earth)
    • 658+10=668pp
  • Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony Sarcissa Belt, 15 (30) br/year, 4 turns (IBZ; pass to Sarqel Treaty Organization
    )
    • 668+10=678pp
  • Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony 23 Levar VIII, 12pp, 2 cp, 15 (35) sr/year, 4 turns (GBZ; pass to United Hives of Apinae
    )
    • 678+10=688pp
  • Request Academy Development, 30pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
    • 688-30=658pp
  • Request Explorer Corps Annex Development, 25pp (Gain +0.15 EC O/E/T throughput)
    • 658-25=633pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Yrillians) [Can be taken up to five times]
    • 633-20=613pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Tauni) [Can be taken up to five times]
    • 613-20=593pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Sydraxians) [Can be taken up to five times]
    • 593-20=573pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Ashidi) [Can be taken up to five times]
    • 573-20=553pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Misek) [Can be taken up to five times]
    • 553-20=533pp
  • Support additional resources for the Federation Diplomatic Service, 60pp (Cap of pushes, and of FDS tags that may be targeted annually, increases by 1)
    • 533-60=473pp
  • Request resources for an extra Starfleet Intelligence Operations task group (Will add a Science-heavy event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year, (Defense)
    • 473-30=443pp
  • Request Civil Service cooperation for an early Law Enforcement task group (Will add a balanced event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year
    • 443-30=413pp
  • Deploy Centi-Cochrane Band Antenna to a Border Zone to increase event rate one stage. 2 ep, 30 pp, 8 turns - Horizon Border Zone
    • 413-30-5(1ep)=378pp
  • Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Command, 75pp (Permanently gain +3pt under control of Vice Admiral)
    • 378-75=303pp
  • Request allocation for new Engineering Team, 50pp, will allow 2 x Engineering Ships to be built in Starfleet line yards, providing 2 ep on completion.
    • 303-50=253pp
  • Request allocation to expand Colony Command, 60pp, will allow 2 x Colony Ships to be built in Starfleet line yards, providing 2 cp on completion.
    • 253-60=193pp
  • Request an increase in the Research budget, 70pp, +1 yearly Breakthrough.
    • 193-70=123pp
  • Request to start a ship refit project, 20pp, 2 turns for frigates ("low crew" Kepler refit)
    • 123-20=103pp
  • Request that an eccentric and esoteric Gaeni defensive project be approved: Dreamer Ranger Gear, 50pp, 20sr, 2 turns
    • 103-50=53pp
  • Upgrade Convoy Waystations in a particular Sector, 2 ep, 40pp, 4 turns (Paddah Sector)
    • 53-40-10(2ep)=3pp
Note: 3ep purchased (15pp), 4ep spent

Highlights:
  • I prioritized BR > SR for colonies. We have ~2.5k BR and ~2.5k SR, but are spending BR at a much faster rate (we _lost_ 200 BR overall in 2325 [3700->3500)
  • I prefer passing Colony 23 Levar VIII to the STO, who are UFP members rather than to a non-affiliate. Yes, it might push Ataami to affiliate, but that is not guaranteed, (GM shenangins). Colonies should stay inside the UFP.
  • Yes, this plan passes control of a lot of colonies. We realistically can't colonize all of our options, and this trades us for pp we urgently need for the upcoming hostilities. Stick in the hand vs two in the bush. (Also when we federalize everything, we may get some of the resources back, eventually)
  • Centi-Cochrane Band Antenna. No idea why all the plans so far ignored this. Let's up the HBZ actions.
  • More FDS pushes.
  • More research, CP, EP, etc.
This is my first real attempt at a plan, lemme know if I made a maths error somewhere.
 
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Aranfan said:
I want the singer trap tho.
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It bears noting that Singer traps explicitly involve putting people at risk without their consent or reasonable expectation of consent, since you are explicitly using an operational Starbase as bait in the mousetrap.
Especially given as Starfleet starbases are not exclusively military installations.

There are significant questions about whether that even passes the Starfleet ethical smell test.
Let alone the pragmatic one of putting that much industrial output and potentially military firepower within the reach of a hostile.
The calculus is even worse if said Starbase is located in an inhabited system.

Do remember that the Singers have a well-earned reputation for spite when their plans go wrong.
On both the micro- and macro- scale.
 
uju32 said:
It bears noting that Singer traps explicitly involve putting people at risk without their consent or reasonable expectation of consent, since you are explicitly using an operational Starbase as bait in the mousetrap.
Especially given as Starfleet starbases are not exclusively military installations.

There are significant questions about whether that even passes the Starfleet ethical smell test.
Let alone the pragmatic one of putting that much industrial output and potentially military firepower within the reach of a hostile.
The calculus is even worse if said Starbase is located in an inhabited system.

Do remember that the Singers have a well-earned reputation for spite when their plans go wrong.
On both the micro- and macro- scale.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I shall think on it.
 
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