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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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deathofrats0808 said:
Hey if we can find a gun that works like the actual Contender from that series, with the bullets, I'm pretty sure the thread would be ecstatic.
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Permanently damaging our opponent's magic? No, that's not happening. Not beyond "they can't cast when they're dead", anyway.

But having enchanted ammunition in general is possible. Not by the Dwarves, but the Colleges would probably be willing to make us a bunch of single-use enchantments for some favors.

Chamon is probably the easiest, since the bullets are metal, but I could see Aqshy working too, since they're propelled by explosion and flame - both of those have some nice options for enchanted bullets.
 
Although, if our sword turns into some gigantic door-knocker because we picked 'hit hard', we won't really have a stealthy method of killing that isn't shadow chisels.
 
Guile said:
Although, if our sword turns into some gigantic door-knocker because we picked 'hit hard', we won't really have a stealthy method of killing that isn't shadow chisels.
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Way Opener (aka Gate Breaker) WAS the most popular option last time we talked sword names, if I do say so myself.
 
Guile said:
Although, if our sword turns into some gigantic door-knocker because we picked 'hit hard', we won't really have a stealthy method of killing that isn't shadow chisels.
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What about
U / Shroud of Invisibility: Makes you invisible for up to half a minute.
- No limitations. Attack, shoot, scream, do what you like, you stay invisible until it expires or is dispelled.

Sure they will see our target get shredded but we are usually all about killing one guy and then getting out of dodge. We do need to learn it but that is hardly an insurmountable barrier.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Permanently damaging our opponent's magic? No, that's not happening. Not beyond "they can't cast when they're dead", anyway.

But having enchanted ammunition in general is possible. Not by the Dwarves, but the Colleges would probably be willing to make us a bunch of single-use enchantments for some favors.

Chamon is probably the easiest, since the bullets are metal, but I could see Aqshy working too, since they're propelled by explosion and flame - both of those have some nice options for enchanted bullets.
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IDK, you might be able to do it. Runed bullets with anti-spellcasting runes or enchanted bullets that hold some sort of disrupting magical influence.

Much easier to just enchant ammo, true, but probably betterr to enchant it ourselves. Ulgu might make for some fun things that way (cause confusion in enemy ranks, invisible wounds, sudden gouts of smoke around enemy archers etc) but even Petty magic could be good. Sleep, magic dart, sounds.
 
The thing is, a more accurate pistol might extend our range from 20 yards to 50 yards but a decent rifle, even with just our base martial and an afternoon's instruction, will extend it to 100+ yards. If we do take actions learning it, 500+ yard shots are doable. On the rare occasion that a job can only be done by sniping and Mathilde is the only one who can get into position to take the shot, she should bring a rifle. Her difference in skill level between the weapons is overwhelmed by the difference in capabilities of the weapons themselves.

However, a longarm is a primary weapon, as long and bulky as her sword and considerably heavier. Mathilde is not a handgunner or sniper, she's a mage. She has a lot of magic to help her get into close combat with high value targets and more magic to make her effective when she gets there. She carries a firearm as a backup weapon, for when she needs stand-off power in a hurry - that's why she learned pistol rather than handgun in the first place. The question then is, is a marksman pistol an improvement over her revolver for the uses she needs it for? I would say that, although she has done a long (for a pistol) shot assassination in the past, the increased accuracy of the marksman pistol is irrelevant at the ranges she shoots at normally. More relevant is that that thing is fucking hand cannon firing a large calibre, pointy bullet with lots of penetration and stopping power. Against that, it's single shot whereas the revolver has eight shots so if it takes three hits to do the same damage she can do that and then shoot the next opponent. If she misses she has another shot.

I can see it being worth her while having a decent rifle for niche uses but not going overboard because she isn't going to put in the time to get good enough that it's the gun limiting her performance*. I don't see the marksman pistol filling that niche as well nor replacing the revolver as her sidearm. She could carry it in addition but it's a big, heavy pistol that takes different ammunition - better to carry a couple of extra pre-loaded cylinders for the revolver.


*Yes, I know the game mechanics don't work like that.
 
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Well if you care about making sure we are somewhat silent while killing using our shiny new sword, there is an option that seems to be pointed towards that.
 
Guile said:
Although, if our sword turns into some gigantic door-knocker because we picked 'hit hard', we won't really have a stealthy method of killing that isn't shadow chisels.
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Kornet said:
It might, however, make it loud as fuck (say, some kind of on-contact explision effect)
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If one means 'so stealthy people have a hard time telling the victim is dead', maybe, but part of the reason Kragg's hammer caused the door to explode inwards like it'd been hit by a cannonball was because Kragg's hammer had roughly the impact surface of a cannonball.

A greatsword hits along a ludicrously smaller surface area, which is its entire point (well, edge sometimes). S10 on a greatsword isn't going to cause them to explode (unless we're using deathblows), it's going to go through them like flaming butter. If anything, it'll actually probably be reasonably silent.
 
Guile said:
Although, if our sword turns into some gigantic door-knocker because we picked 'hit hard', we won't really have a stealthy method of killing that isn't shadow chisels.
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There's a reason I've been poking in the direction of Ulgu-boosted munitions; it shouldn't be hard to get some kind of silence or notice-me-not effect on a gun.

Maybe a confusion or terror effect downrange when fired, too.

Lotta fun options.
 
noliar said:
The thing is, a more accurate pistol might extend our range from 20 yards to 50 yards but a decent rifle, even with just our base martial and an afternoon's instruction, will extend it to 100+ yards. If we do take actions learning it, 500+ yard shots are doable.
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We're talking early 1800s here, not the 1900s.
 
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deathofrats0808 said:
IDK, you might be able to do it. Runed bullets with anti-spellcasting runes or enchanted bullets that hold some sort of disrupting magical influence.

Much easier to just enchant ammo, true, but probably betterr to enchant it ourselves. Ulgu might make for some fun things that way (cause confusion in enemy ranks, invisible wounds, sudden gouts of smoke around enemy archers etc) but even Petty magic could be good. Sleep, magic dart, sounds.
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Bullets deform and therefore cant hold runes.
 
Ah, the old debate on weather to emphasize a strength, or shore up a weakness.

I am still undecided on the sword.
 
noliar said:
The thing is, a more accurate pistol might extend our range from 20 yards to 50 yards but a decent rifle, even with just our base martial and an afternoon's instruction, will extend it to 100+ yards. If we do take actions learning it, 500+ yard shots are doable. On the rare occasion that a job can only be done by sniping and Mathilde is the only one who can get into position to take the shot, she should bring a rifle. Her difference in skill level between the weapons is overwhelmed by the difference in capabilities of the weapons themselves.

However, a longarm is a primary weapon, as long and bulky as her sword and considerably heavier. Mathilde is not a handgunner or sniper, she's a mage. She has a lot of magic to help her get into close combat with high value targets and more magic to make her effective when she gets there. She carries a firearm as a backup weapon, for when she needs stand-off power in a hurry - that's why she learned pistol rather than handgun in the first place. The question then is, is a marksman pistol an improvement over her revolver for the uses she needs it for? I would say that, although she has done a long (for a pistol) shot assassination in the past, the increased accuracy of the marksman pistol is irrelevant at the ranges she shoots at normally. More relevant is that that thing is fucking hand cannon firing a large calibre, pointy bullet with lots of penetration and stopping power. Against that, it's single shot whereas the revolver has eight shots so if it takes three hits to do the same damage she can do that and then shoot the next opponent. If she misses she has another shot.

I can see it being worth her while having a decent rifle for niche uses but not going overboard because she isn't going to put in the time to get good enough that it's the gun limiting her performance*. I don't see the marksman pistol filling that niche as well nor replacing the revolver as her sidearm. She could carry it in addition but it's a big, heavy pistol that takes different ammunition - better to carry a couple of extra pre-loaded cylinders for the revolver.
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Nobody is arguing that the marksdwarf pistol it to replace her revolver as a sidearm.

Nobody is arguing a marksdwarf pistol is better for sniping than a rifle.

The argument is that she doesn't have time to learn rifle, but could use some kind of marksman weapon and this one doesn't require time to learn.

The revolver is probably going to lose thevrole of a sidearm soon, but to the shadow knives spell, not marksdwarf postol
 
Neshuakadal said:
Yes however the warpstone embedded bullets used by the skaven offer interesting possibilities. To my understanding warpstone is the powerstone variant of Dhar and while Dhar likes to follow it's own rules adding an elemental effect to ammo could have very interesting effects.
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There's also the shuriken that is enchanted to always be coated in poison. While we might not have much use for that type of enchantment, I can bet that there will be Rangers or other Grey Wizards who would love to have a knife that is always coated with the Black Lotus poison.
 
Neshuakadal said:
Yes however the warpstone embedded bullets used by the skaven offer interesting possibilities. To my understanding warpstone is the powerstone variant of Dhar and while Dhar likes to follow it's own rules adding an elemental effect to ammo could have very interesting effects.
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An avenue to research, but I fear the cost (in specialist man-hours) will be prohibitive.

Edit: aand goodnight folks.
 
Y'know, I'm trying to figure out exactly how Mathilde would work as a Lord character in Total War, and I'm getting some pretty funky ideas.

Like, for starters, not only would she have Lore of Shadows as her casting skill, she would also have a combination Pistol ranged attack and Sword melee. She'd have a couple legendary quests too, one dedicated to earning her Belt through the utter destruction of Castle Drakenhof, another for her Sword forger as a favor for helping to reclaim the Karak 8 Peaks for Belegar.

She'd also start the campaign with a unique Research tree involving the Liber Mortis. The first secret would open the door to a unique Corruption mechanic, which is easy to keep nil only if you don't actually Use the secrets.

Especially difficult, seeing as the second secret let's you effectively kill off Undead armies at Will.

The Third secret, however, is where the corruption risks Really kick off. Because then Mathilde gets a third button under her army panel labeled Raise.

Effectively, she'd gain the ability of all the vampire and undead factions, able to raise the dead effectively at Will into regiments and armies.

Even one use of that power instantly jumps the corruption meter up a full level, and gets Mathilde condemned by the Colleges for her crimes.

It also opens up diplomacy bonuses with Vlad von Carstein, but that's a more specific bonus than usual.

Eventually, I can see Mathilde as a genuine terror on the field. Not only through the use of Lore of Shadow battle magic, but through her unique skills granted by the Liber Mortis.

She has a skill that takes several minutes to cool down, but she can cause an entire unit of Undead to just pop, and fall apart. She'd eventually gain the ability to summon entire units of Undead to the battlefield, and eventually become an existential threat to the Empire.

There is such a good idea behind her for a possible Legendary Lord...
 
Kornet said:
An avenue to research, but I fear the cost (in specialist man-hours) will be prohibitive.

Edit: aand goodnight folks.
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It's not something I would be interested in pursing before snakejuice and Johann may very well beat us there but it's something to put in our whole other pile of backlog research.
 
DarknessSmiles said:
Bullets deform and therefore cant hold runes.
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I went back a fair bit in the thread, but couldn't find anything about this. Source please?

Darik29 said:
Especially difficult, seeing as the second secret let's you effectively kill off Undead armies at Will.
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I can't see that being implemented in a game. Balance still exists. It wouldn't surprise me if for something like the Mortis, they would use it as a boost to winds, and a negative to public order, or something similar.
 
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Soooo going by the vote tally (and skipping through the ever-expanding thread) here's my assessment:

Three main library votes. One for spending 800 gold and 2 Favors on books, another plan that skips the 100g of fungus books hunch, (IMO we can just ask Panoramia about fungus,) and no books at all. Plus assorted other plans with tiny amounts of votes. Can't say I'm a fan of any of the leading three votes, with "no books" looking like a decent compromise, unfortunately. I still want to purchase books, but the mechanic of spending hundreds of gold for a +2 on a roll maybe once or twice is looking more and more like a way to drain our bank account for little benefit. We've already picked up most major topics, so I think more books should only be for helping with stuff we know we'll have multiple actions for. Otherwise we'll end up spending bucketloads of even more gold and/or precious favors.

For the Rune vote, almost everyone voting is opting to save our favors for now. Just the various tower options alone are likely to drain this down quite a bit in the future, so no disagreement from me here.

For Enchantment, it's nice to see we'll get that grounding rod. But while a Burning Vengance enchantment sounds quite useful, until we start writing more papers it's a big favor cost when we still have all these expensive tower options.

Shopping has three votes: Either a Marksdwarf Pistol, a Rifle, oooor nothing. Frankly, I don't see why we aren't buying both a more accurate pistol for now and a rifle for training in later. Mathilde could use an extra gun or two more than just her one revolver, and I don't see why we shouldn't get both. Compared to books, books, and more books, a single extra gun has a much higher cost to value ratio.

Maybe Shadow Knives in the future will be better than a Marksdwarf Pistol, but even then it's easy enough to carry two pistols just-in-case. The rifle, meanwhile, has obvious utility in the future since we can probably enchant it to be silent at the least, but while it'll require an action to learn to use it it's not like it wouldn't be worth purchasing ahead of time anyways. And if it's too bulky to carry around much, Mathilde can still carry it with her when she thinks she'll need to snipe something from far away. So I think both are worth getting.

Anyways, that's my 200gc.

[X] [SPIDER] They are foreign allies and thus the responsibility of Prince Kazrik.
[X] [KRAGG] Hit Hard
[X] Tower of Utter Neutrality - with rune and material and a great deal of care, make your Tower completely magically neutral. Large bonus to studying anything magical, small bonus to studying everything else from higher Magesight contrast. 250gc, 5 Dwarf favours.
[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial text: Extensive Fungi, Romance Novels. Dwarf text: Romance Novels.
[X] [RUNE] No purchase.
[X] [ENCHANTMENT] Grounding Rod
[X] [SHOPPING] A Marksdwarf Pistol.
[X] [SHOPPING] Go to Zhufbar look for a nice rifle.
[X] [SHOPPING] Go to Zhufbar and look at buying a new pistol and rifle.
 
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chocolote12 said:
It's fairly simple logic. Runes are based on shape. Bullets deform by design. If you put a rune into a bullet it will either be destroyed and the rune won't work, or it won't be destroyed and your gun will explode instead.
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It's entirely possible I'm wrong here, but my understanding is that most bullets that do that, are designed to. It's not just because it happens to every bullet.
 
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