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If Mathilde recovered the samples with him while he was on the clock as her subordinate in his job? He'd have a very hard time saying no.
The price of having K8P backing is you have to share your results with K8P i.e. us.

However...
@BoneyM , if we give Johann a different task, he'll still spend some of his tome poking skaven. So could we go with him then and direct it at Mors? I.e. Keep the Mathilde accompanies Johann action even though we've got him investigating webs too.
 
Wow. This is clearly the best thing ever. I really hope that we get it from the Liber Mortis soon and don't have to research it, but even if we do have to then it's still worth it. You know what this is? It's the easiest way to kick the Skaven out of our mountain!
Seriously, being able to sneak into any Skaven enclave and start a chain-reaction that destroys their economy (and maybe a few war machines or lightning guns) is simply amazing. 10/10, would do again and again for a while until they cut their losses and retreat.
This is an easy way to severely hurt the skaven economy (and therefore the clan's local ability to function internally) at basically zero risk to ourselves.

When we do this we should warn the Dawi to be ready at the gates in case the Skaven somehow figure out that it was us, but I doubt they will if we're careful and we only target clan Mors while they're at war with the others.

It bears remembering that this is Nagash's trick. If the Skaven realize what we are doing it will scare the living daylights out of them which may get them to run or it may get the Council of Thirteen involved to squash the powerful necromancer before she becomes a greater threat. I do not think it would even occur to the Skaven that Mathilde might not want to animate the dead.

We should be discrete in blowing up Skaven.
 
Currently going through the thread (which is a full time job, at this point). I decided to make a compilation post for this line of... mini-omakes, I guess, before I forget. It's a bit of a shame there's so many great posts sorta lost in the thread, because reading this whole beast from scratch is just not feasible if you don't have a lot of free time. I mean, it's nearly 300k words at his point (plus another 50k omakes, and a chunk of game info). It's basically a book series (Stirland is one, though you could argue it's actually several, and then the reclamaition is another. Third book has just started).


@BoneyM I remember that you said the unnatural shadow could be an issue when infiltrating a place with steady lighting, and that we could train to gain enough control over our shadow to prevent that. Could you add that to the training actions next turn? Or research, it sort of straddles the line (I think I'd actually prefer research, since it might open the way to further interesting applications).
In the same line, an action to train shooting our with magic lenses (that was suggested when assassinating the warbos, I think), and while invisible (once we have that).

EDIT: If you like the stuff compiled here, you should follow the links to the original posts, and like those. They made the good words. Unless you really consider what I wrote above likeable/funny/whatever, in which case I shall question your taste, but also secretly enjoy watching my numbers go up.
"How can you trust someone who tells lies?" asks Mathilde.

"You just can't," replies Ranald, the God of Lies.
Then they both hugged, tears streaming down their faces at the unjust world surrounding them filled with liars and conartists and sneaks.
And then Mathilde went back to her previous task, which was deciding between setting up a shrine to the God of Lies, establishing a spy ring among the corporation controlled by her beloved friends, or possibly taking another break to leaf through the Liber Mortis and breach like six strictures at the same time.
"How can you trust someone?" asks Mathilde.

"You just can't." replies Lord Algard, the Patriarch of the Grey College.
"How can you trust?" asks Mathilde.

"You just can't." replies Ulgu, the Lore of Confusion and Distrust.
"Trust?" Mathilde.

"No" Liar.
Or better yet

"Trust?" Mathilde

"No" WHF
"Love?" Mathilde.

"No" Sigmar.
I am Mathilde Weber, and I'm here to ask you a question.

Is a man not entitled to trust?
'No!' says Ranald, 'For everybody lies.'
'No!' says the Grey Patriarch, 'No one is beyond suspicion.'
'No!' says Ulgu, 'What is trust, anyway?'

I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different.
I chose the impossible. I chose... the dwarfs.
 
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If you were him, who always seems to know more than he thought she did on first impression, would you want to hold out? Particularly as Mathilde would find out as soon as he published an cut off his pipeline of search materials. With Mathilde as a collaborator who can occasionally drop off pieces of warp tech while providing an amazing library, and, in future, workshops, his incentives are very much to share, as he'd end up way ahead. As she's from another College, she's not a real adacemic rival, and a reputation for being a effective cross-College collaborator might be actively beneficial to him.



That's what I understand necromancy to be. Using Shyish to manipulate True Dhar, either as warpstone or from a contaminated location. That's why amatur necromancers are specifically a Sylvania problem, as the place is contaminated with warpstone dust, and the rest of the Empire usually sees more general witches as the problem.
My understanding was that the type of Dhar used by Necromancers simply had a lot more Shyish in it then just making Dhar out of a random collection of Winds.
 
However...
@BoneyM , if we give Johann a different task, he'll still spend some of his tome poking skaven. So could we go with him then and direct it at Mors? I.e. Keep the Mathilde accompanies Johann action even though we've got him investigating webs too.

His boss following him home to tag along in his after-hours pet project is a lot less likely to garner goodwill and cooperation than making those trips part of his job.
 
@BoneyM , if we give Johann a different task, he'll still spend some of his tome poking skaven. So could we go with him then and direct it at Mors? I.e. Keep the Mathilde accompanies Johann action even though we've got him investigating webs too.

Already answered. We could, but it would be seen very differently and much more negatively.

My understanding was that the type of Dhar used by Necromancers simply had a lot more Shyish in it then just making Dhar out of a random collection of Winds.

My understanding is that the Dhar used by Necromancy doesn't have any of the Winds left in it, it's all decayed into one corrupt homogenous mass that's lost its original character. It's reached the point where it's its become its own new and horrible substance, not simply a mixture of multiple Winds. Otherwise everything would be full of Dhar, as most places have all the Winds present simultaneously occupying the same location.

But this is a digression.
 
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We should be discrete in blowing up Skaven.
No. Discrete is the last thing we want to be when blowing up Skaven. We should endeavor to remain contiguous.

("Discrete" means being in multiple separate pieces. This is not a good word to use in the same sentence as "blowing up". ;) The word you're looking for is probably "discreet", because English has a lot of words.)
 
No. Discrete is the last thing we want to be when blowing up Skaven. We should endeavor to remain contiguous.

("Discrete" means being in multiple separate pieces. This is not a good word to use in the same sentence as "blowing up". ;) The word you're looking for is probably "discreet", because English has a lot of words.)

auto corrupt is a thing typing from a phone is genuinely painful
 
No. Discrete is the last thing we want to be when blowing up Skaven. We should endeavor to remain contiguous.

("Discrete" means being in multiple separate pieces. This is not a good word to use in the same sentence as "blowing up". ;) The word you're looking for is probably "discreet", because English has a lot of words.)
no, no, you see, the "we" was referring to us and Johan, and I would really rather we remain discrete.
 
It's a bit of a shame there's so many great posts sorta lost in the thread, because reading this whole beast from scratch is just not feasible if you don't have a lot of free time. I mean, it's nearly 300k words at his point (plus another 50k omakes, and a chunk of game info). It's basically a book series (Stirland is one, though you could argue it's actually several, and then the reclamaition is another. Third book has just started).
Having recently (only like a week and a half ago, jeez) gone through and read this quest from scratch, I'd group the "series" as follow:
  1. The first nine turns, with the "climax" being "purging the castle of infiltrators/destroying the Stirlandian league" and ending on the scene where Mathilde visits the village of her birth and rides away without speaking to her family. Thematically, this is Mathilde finding her new home in Stirland and learning who she can trust and what she can believe in.
  2. The buildup to the purge of the Haunted Hills and then the campaign against Sylvania, ending in the fall of Drakenhof and the receipt of the Libris Mortis.
  3. Mathilde faffing about trying to figure out her life in the aftermath of Abelhelm's death, joining up with the dwarves, and the expedition into K8P. The last scene here would be the capture of the Citadel in the update "Karak Eight Peaks: A Final Victory".
  4. The current story, beginning with the winding-down of the expedition and Mathilde beginning her job as Court Wizard to K8P.
 
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I recall that being said last turn. You know, when we voted to set up a lab so that we'd be able to do it this turn?
People were referring to building a dedicated tower and using it this turn. We didn't know that a tower room can't be used until the turn after it was constructed.
Yeah, exactly. You'll notice, if you read the planning posts during the moratorium, that almost every proposed plan had snek juice until BoneyM clarified that we cannot build the tower and get the bonus on the same turn. Then most of the plans switched away to do other things.
 
The response to the spiders hunting from the potential new nest is going to be to bring the warp fire throwers and guns over to shoot them. Stealing a warp fire thrower or two and sabotaging more on the way out reduces the threat to the spiders hunting over the next six months that this turn represents.
Remember the spiders are relocating to a place of safety behind dwarf lines, not in Clan Mors tunnels.

I'm not saying the skaven can't bring out flamethrowers, but they aren't going to find the nest regardless.
That's fair. There are no actions from Mathilde available to do dictating, though, so we can't do that. We're not in desperate need of publication and I don't think anyone voting for my plan is voting it in significant part because of that particular action, so I'd be willing to change it. I'm thinking that spider autopsies are probably the most useful of his other available actions; there's an argument to be made for written Reikspiel but it seems to me that any project to teach writing to a species which still needs magical assistance to comprehend even the spoken version of the language is going to be a high-difficulty uphill fight. So spider autopsies seem much more likely to produce useful positive results.

Anyone else who is voting for Magical Mathilde have an opinion on this one? I'd like at least a handful of people to chime in before changing it.
In my memory, he already took a crack at the Waaagh paperwork, flubbed it, and Mathilde gave him a bunch of pointers for his next attempt. We should get coauthor credit regardless.
 
Next turn we will have something else to do and the same three options:
Order Johann to do something utterly unrelated to his interest, which will get voters complaining.
Order Johann to do what he wants, which will get voters complaining.
Order Johann to do what he wants then try to contort things such that Johann doing what he wants is useful to us.

This is not a situation I want to continue.

Part of the problem is that Mathilde relationship with Johaan is not particularly strong, and so much of Johaan is an unknown. If he becomes more a known quality, alot of the complains are going to fade. But yes, I can see alot of Johaan votes falling into the dynamic you've described, especially if he remains an unknown quantity. Basically, I'd feel if we can make Johann a more known quantity, alot of the maybes, supposes, walking on eggshells, screw Johaan we are his boss, appease Johaann etc arguments are hopefully going to ease up, as will the appeasement versus force Johaan to do X arguments. We don't know how Johann really ticks, and until some vote gives us a chance to get a firmer sense of how Johann ticks beyond Skaventech! (which Citadel Focus attempts to uncover) , Johann would always remain this divisive "unknown".

Also, TBH, if we are going to ask Johaan to do something utterly unrelated to his interest, I'd prefer it if it's clearly critical to the primary mission of our job as Court Wizard of the current turn, since we hired him in our office as Court Wizard in particular, an office where we will often have priority, primary missions in each turn. Spider Web research does not qualify because it has nothing to do at all with Relocation, but there could have been other things that might and had planning gone down differently during the moratorium, perhaps the conversation could have turned out differently. Plan Citadel Focus happens to have a set of actions that intersect with our primary mission of relocation, involving one of the most likely failure modes of relocation: Skaven warptech, in our current theater of operations: the Under-Citadel. If this is the metric though, where would apply such a metric fall in your schema regarding say, a turn where our primary mission involves Orc Shamans?

Odds are, I would be on the other side - that scenario would have been one where I probably would have backed a plan that pits Johann into one of the failure modes of that hypothetical primary Orc-centric mission that I think a convincing case could be made that Johann is uniquely suited to, even if it has nothing to do with the Skaven, even if he wants to hit Clan Skyre that turn, and Clan Skyre is nowhere near our current theater of operations. The lack of information about Johann obviously would make such a hypothetical vote way more messier than a scenario where the thread has a firmer grasp of Johann.

We don't have the same issue with Maximillian, by the way, and that's partly because we probably have a clearer grasp of Maximillian than Johann.
 
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Having recently (only like a week and a half ago, jeez) gone through and read this quest from scratch, I'd group the "series" as follow:
  1. The first nine turns, with the "climax" being "purging the castle of infiltrators/destroying the Stirlandian league" and ending on the scene where Mathilde visits the village of her birth and rides away without speaking to her family. Thematically, this is Mathilde finding her new home in Stirland and learning who she can trust and what she can believe in.
  2. The buildup to the purge of the Haunted Hills and then the campaign against Sylvania, ending in the fall of Drakenhof and the receipt of the Libris Mortis.
  3. Mathilde faffing about trying to figure out her life in the aftermath of Abelhelm's death, joining up with the dwarves, and the expedition into K8P. The last scene here would be the capture of the Citadel in the update "Karak Eight Peaks: A Final Victory".
  4. The current story, beginning with the winding-down of the expedition and Mathilde beginning her job as Court Wizard to K8P.
Yeah, that's pretty good. Though I think book two should end on destroying the conspiracy. Or maybe that and the magister graduation are two smaller novellas, set between the main line books.
 
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A specific example of a larger issue. Studying the webs is something that directly serves our interests. It has academic value, it may have trade or enchanting value.
Poking the Skaven, even if we go out of our way so it also benefits us, is serving Johann's interest.

Next turn we will have something else to do and the same three options:
Order Johann to do something utterly unrelated to his interest, which will get voters complaining.
Order Johann to do what he wants, which will get voters complaining.
Order Johann to do what he wants then try to contort things such that Johann doing what he wants is useful to us.

This is not a situation I want to continue.
Indeed, there is potential economic value to the silk. It is dwarfed by the potential military value of a skaven tech report. There is academic value in silk; perhaps we need to do this action to get thorough on the paper about them. The Skaventech is rare, revolutionary, and tactically relevant almost by default.

I do agree that it's silly how much importance people are putting on how he feels about the whole thing but voting against Citadel Focus won't somehow stop that.
 
Eh, whatever. I've changed my plan so it has Max collating nthe papers from the Purge, since we should have better insights into the Waaaagh energy.

This. Unless this is the last time we let Johann do whatever he wants, then he becomes an actively bad subordinate, who will have people clamoring to spend actions assisting him. We don't need more action sink, and we don't need more research topics!

It has been changed.
Neat!

[X] Magical Mathilde
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
 
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore

The only thing I disagree with here is that if we're going to be using the knowledge gained from the Liber Mortis to help with burials, we should be using the Coin's Deciever face to make being discovered impossible.
 
Indeed, there is potential economic value to the silk. It is dwarfed by the potential military value of a skaven tech report. There is academic value in silk; perhaps we need to do this action to get thorough on the paper about them. The Skaventech is rare, revolutionary, and tactically relevant almost by default.

I do agree that it's silly how much importance people are putting on how he feels about the whole thing but voting against Citadel Focus won't somehow stop that.
I'm not sure how publishable skaventech is. Conspiracy of silence is in effect. It will most certainly go to the colleges more secure archives, but, unless warpstone-free analogues to skaventech can be 'independently invented', it is not academically publishable.

The question is: how much college favour do we get for an internal report on skaventech, as opposed to a publically published paper?
 
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