Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Because I don't believe that we ordering him to do what he actually really wants to do. We're ordering him to do what Mathilde wants him to do, but is close enough to what he'd actually like to do that she can pretend. It's like when she called him Journeyman Johann before.
I think she's implicitly forbidding him from poking skaven without permission, by asserting that he requires her permission to do so.
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Is Johann obligated to share his research with us?
If Mathilde recovered the samples with him while he was on the clock as her subordinate in his job? He'd have a very hard time saying no.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Though we'd probably be the junior name on the paper. I don't see anything wrong with that though.
That isn't what the vote says, tho. It says "allow him to spend all his time investigating clan Mors." That carries the clear implication that he's going to spend his free time on the investigation anyway, with or without 'permission.'
So we'd get what, maybe a paper out of it? There's no way he's going to share all of his stuff. So why are we spending two actions to either a) acquire another research topic when we already have plenty or, if he does share his entire research b) get another action sink?
Neither do I. It sets a good precedent that would encourage other Magisters to come and collaborate with her as well.
NeonLights
Formerly Reliable_2IC
- Location
- In shambles
I'm sorry if this comes across as weird or rude, or that it's not my place to answer questions addressed to the QM, but if Max is writing the papers on his lonesome, he'll only be able to work with what he knows. He wasn't there for the Sylvanian Purge, and at best only had a short, secondhand perspective of the Waggh without Windsight.
- Location
- Canada
So there was some thought about whether it makes sense to vote Snake Juice now, or wait for the tower for a better research bonus.
I have concerns with that assumption. Please envision the following:
All it needs is to be set up to be used for something, so we can get that bonus.
And what is our new tower designed for?
But wait, someone else just added something to their Plan-
Well.
Which one are YOU voting for?
Because I don't even know which one I'm voting for.
I have concerns with that assumption. Please envision the following:
Excellent! Vote complete, we now have a tower.
All it needs is to be set up to be used for something, so we can get that bonus.
And what is our new tower designed for?
Hey, that sounds like a great Plan! Glad the matter is settled and we can finally research the rainbow juice with that bonus.
But wait, someone else just added something to their Plan-
Well.
Which one are YOU voting for?
Because I don't even know which one I'm voting for.
- Location
- Vancouver
Nah, if that were the case there'd be a lot less amateur necromancers running around. I'm pretty sure you're talking about True Dhar which can't be easily created and most cases is found naturally in Warpstone and rare pools of magic. It's certainly not a requirement for necromancy though and mostly acts as a massive power booster.
- Location
- Germany
the main point is not appeasing johann but to make our relation if possible workable and to get results on skaven tech.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Id love to send him out for romance novels: just tear a swath through Altdorf lifting everyone's bedside reading material, and deliver it labeled to us.
Pretty much agree with this. We kept him because he is useful, we sent him to Altdorf (a long and pointless trip) as a cover/slap on the wrist, now we should take the opportunity to refound our relationship. He knows better than to try and snow us now, we can treat him with respect as a peer, and ideally we can build a friendly professional relationship.
I'm thinking it isn't a question of one and not the other, it's a question of sequencing. I want dwarf now because that's the likeliest to give us an immediate headache here, I trust Willhelme to work in the best interest of the empire for now. So my preferred sequence is dwarfcode - factory help -information policy - good of empire policy - entrench in K8P. Five turns worth of locked actions, info starts rolling in turn 4, right about as we start getting the AP to act on it as our infrastructure finishes.
Its way more than appeasing him, though I think you undervalue a good relationship with the only other Magister here.
- He'll be doing stuff that is valuable to our goals and (if we push him to share info) Belegar's goals.
- He'll learn that we can offer him a lot in terms of help if he is willing to ask- keep in mind he hasn't seen us work either, really.
- We'll learn his skills and goals from him, rather than guessing, and this lets us target carrot and stick better in the future.
- Social action rolled in, since we really haven't talked to him much. If there's a chance of romantic feelings, getting him alone in a high pressure environment with windsage is the best way to see possibilities.
- Getting our name on his research paper(s) is a huge win for college favor.
And in terms of just appeasement, we want to set up our relationship so he will come to us with problems and ideas, and that needs good will. I really don't want to be trying to force a Magister into a place where he regards his boss as a hostile obstacle- he'll leave, sabatoge us to get a different boss, or just sandbag and do the minimum he can for us while resenting us for forcing him into it. (People don't quit bad jobs, they quit bad bosses.)
So, I want to set us up for long term success, not a need to spend AP making sure our employee is on the straight and narrow.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Research. Snakejuice happens next turn no matter what.
I doubt Mathilde honestly recalls much from back then, and besides, the is mostly collating from the various undead identification pares we sent out anyway. I don't feel a need to worry about getting the max from each paper because I doubt we're going to run our of research topics any time soon.
If you were him, who always seems to know more than he thought she did on first impression, would you want to hold out? Particularly as Mathilde would find out as soon as he published an cut off his pipeline of search materials. With Mathilde as a collaborator who can occasionally drop off pieces of warp tech while providing an amazing library, and, in future, workshops, his incentives are very much to share, as he'd end up way ahead. As she's from another College, she's not a real adacemic rival, and a reputation for being a effective cross-College collaborator might be actively beneficial to him.
That's what I understand necromancy to be. Using Shyish to manipulate True Dhar, either as warpstone or from a contaminated location. That's why amatur necromancers are specifically a Sylvania problem, as the place is contaminated with warpstone dust, and the rest of the Empire usually sees more general witches as the problem.
- Location
- Canada
I appreciate your optimism.
- Location
- France
Wow. This is clearly the best thing ever. I really hope that we get it from the Liber Mortis soon and don't have to research it, but even if we do have to then it's still worth it. You know what this is? It's the easiest way to kick the Skaven out of our mountain!
Seriously, being able to sneak into any Skaven enclave and start a chain-reaction that destroys their economy (and maybe a few war machines or lightning guns) is simply amazing. 10/10, would do again and again for a while until they cut their losses and retreat.
This is an easy way to severely hurt the skaven economy (and therefore the clan's local ability to function internally) at basically zero risk to ourselves.
When we do this we should warn the Dawi to be ready at the gates in case the Skaven somehow figure out that it was us, but I doubt they will if we're careful and we only target clan Mors while they're at war with the others.
A specific example of a larger issue. Studying the webs is something that directly serves our interests. It has academic value, it may have trade or enchanting value.
Poking the Skaven, even if we go out of our way so it also benefits us, is serving Johann's interest.
Next turn we will have something else to do and the same three options:
Order Johann to do something utterly unrelated to his interest, which will get voters complaining.
Order Johann to do what he wants, which will get voters complaining.
Order Johann to do what he wants then try to contort things such that Johann doing what he wants is useful to us.
This is not a situation I want to continue.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Then pick literally almost any other option - the Waagh! paper is only interesting for our own personal understanding of it. This actively impedes a paper we want to be involved in later, where the other choices are net-neutral at worst, aside from other papers we have specific personal insight into.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I'd note that there has not been a single dissenting voice, suggesting to use the tower for something other than a lab.I appreciate your optimism.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
With regard to Johann:
I was against hiring him in the first place, but people decided we should get him, so we did. I think giving him a turn "off" to do his thing is fine for two reasons: synergy with the relocation of the We, and the opportunity to observe what he does with his freedom. The second, in particular, matters a great deal to how much we decide to trust him in the future. I'm still skeptical of him, but I think it's worth giving him the chance to impress us. I don't view this turn as "rewarding" him, I view this turn as, essentially, giving him the opportunity to demonstrate the value of his pet project to our own goals.
And if that last bit of reasoning sounds familiar... Abelhelm did that with us a fair bit.
I was against hiring him in the first place, but people decided we should get him, so we did. I think giving him a turn "off" to do his thing is fine for two reasons: synergy with the relocation of the We, and the opportunity to observe what he does with his freedom. The second, in particular, matters a great deal to how much we decide to trust him in the future. I'm still skeptical of him, but I think it's worth giving him the chance to impress us. I don't view this turn as "rewarding" him, I view this turn as, essentially, giving him the opportunity to demonstrate the value of his pet project to our own goals.
And if that last bit of reasoning sounds familiar... Abelhelm did that with us a fair bit.
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- Location
- some computer lab
we already know the Second Secret of Dhar, that action is just testing if it works on warpstone or not.
Eh, whatever. I've changed my plan so it has Max collating nthe papers from the Purge, since we should have better insights into the Waaaagh energy.
This. Unless this is the last time we let Johann do whatever he wants, then he becomes an actively bad subordinate, who will have people clamoring to spend actions assisting him. We don't need more action sink, and we don't need more research topics!
It has been changed.
- Location
- Canada
I can't follow the whole discussion with how fast it goes, but that's reassuring.
But on the other hand, Puppy VS Doggo was still the most divisive issue just two votes ago. So I'm still a bit concerned.