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He agreed to work for us because we used his jouneyman disguise as an intrigue bludgeon to put him under us. Sure, the money is probably nice but he doesn't need it. He's a Gold Magister whose here for a reason. We can make his life hell if he doesn't go along with us but intimidation seems like a poor way to control a subordinate.
Who's talking about intimidation? On the other hand "Hey you agreed to take Belegars money, here's a task for the good of the Hold" is by no means unreasonable.

And if he is going to balk at not doing whatever he wants all the time, might as well find out now?
 
He agreed to work for us because we used his jouneyman disguise as an intrigue bludgeon to put him under us. Sure, the money is probably nice but he doesn't need it. He's a Gold Magister whose here for a reason. We can make his life hell if he doesn't go along with us but intimidation seems like a poor way to control a subordinate.
Working under Mathilde is his price for a permit to poke at Skaven from a safe base behind dwarven defenses.
 
He agreed to work for us because we used his jouneyman disguise as an intrigue bludgeon to put him under us. Sure, the money is probably nice but he doesn't need it. He's a Gold Magister whose here for a reason. We can make his life hell if he doesn't go along with us but intimidation seems like a poor way to control a subordinate.
I mean if that's the case, I uh..hope he packs up and leave?
He agreed to work under our command and get Belegar's pay, if he doesn't like it then well the exit is right there.
Sure losing his spells would be a loss but I rather have someone who we can trust.
Heck maybe we can nab a Bright Wizard.
 
Anyone who is interested in gaining Real, Ultimate Power, paying back Ranald for that thing he did (every turn! every turn he saves our butt), and not going to poke Clan Mors should probably vote for Darklight's [ ] Magical Mathilde

Like, I voted to write papers for College Favour, and yeah, that College Favour can be turned into some pretty sweet trinkets that do things like 'full heal the wearer once per day'. It'd be cool to flood Karak Eight Peaks with useful magical items and get the dwarves to admit that magical items are awesome. But we can't actually wear any of them. In comparison, considering we already have all the low-hanging fruit, almost any spell we learn is going to be really solid.
 
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I am pro-juice even before a proper lab because juice I think it is not a single action, it's an action chain. The sooner we start, the more we can accomplish.
 
Sorry to badger you with so many questions, but, how would Mathilde treat the research of the Asp Blood at this exact, present stage, absent a personal research lab but with a general lab and a penthouse to her own?

I'd say delay till a right proper personal lab or let every journeymanling know enough about it to not poke the scary crates with demon blood.
Latter actually can be possible - if Johan pokes warpstone tech, why not poke demon blood? Wizards we have with us do not seem to be the most conservative bunch in this regard.

However, they may still inform someone else about it, whether on accident or because some grey order folks decided to double check how is K8P going. Not sure whether that'd get us in hot water.

Former is a tad preferable in my eyes, but if people think they can both
- convince all our wizards to not poke demon blood and
- convince them not to talk about it to Colleges and
- ensure they do not accidentally blab it and
- that giving them this more or less blackmail over us (dependent on how bad is demonic research viewed in Empire)
If people think all above is is worth getting to research a turn or two earlier....
Well sure, why not? It's a valid enough tradeoff if one thinks that demon blood is time-sensitive.



I honestly want to say that those who want to research something right now should take a long hard look at Coin research instead - it looks way safer in pretty much all regards.
 
I am pro-juice even before a proper lab because juice I think it is not a single action, it's an action chain. The sooner we start, the more we can accomplish.
Applies to coin too most likely; also way less liable to make people go "uh mathilde why do you poke demonic blood tho".

I mean, again, if you think that getting to it two turns earlier (build tower + set up personal lab may well be a separate action) is worth the risk, sure. It's a valid choice. Just as long as you keep in mind that there might be a tradeoff involved. /shrug

edit: well unless we can do research in public-ish lab without anyone noticing. Given that one of them is a Magister, uhhh....well, maybe? Idk.
edit2: or unless I overestimate public face-danger of demon blood research and colleges are actually totally fine with it as long as we treat it with caution. Could well be the case, Johan does get to poke Skaventech after all. Not sure.
 
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[X] Plan Magical Mathilde Underground
-[X] Instill corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (Waaagh energy)
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (1 College Favour per class; 100gc can be paid instead for non-magical classes)
--[X] Spells of Grey Magic (teachers' choice; multiple spells)
-[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -50gc for 2 rooms.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnars and Morrite Lore.
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] The Gambler: Spells of Grey Magic

Literally just Plan Magical Mathilde with excavated rooms instead of tower.

[X] Plan Waaaghnald
[X] Plan Magical Mathilde
[X] Plan Publishing Power
 
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I'd say delay till a right proper personal lab or let every journeymanling know enough about it to not poke the scary crates with demon blood.
Latter actually can be possible - if Johan pokes warpstone tech, why not poke demon blood? Wizards we have with us do not seem to be the most conservative bunch in this regard.

However, they may still inform someone else about it, whether on accident or because some grey order folks decided to double check how is K8P going. Not sure whether that'd get us in hot water.

Former is a tad preferable in my eyes, but if people think they can both
- convince all our wizards to not poke demon blood and
- convince them not to talk about it to Colleges and
- ensure they do not accidentally blab it and
- that giving them this more or less blackmail over us (dependent on how bad is demonic research viewed in Empire)
If people think all above is is worth getting to research a turn or two earlier....
Well sure, why not? It's a valid enough tradeoff if one thinks that demon blood is time-sensitive.



I honestly want to say that those who want to research something right now should take a long hard look at Coin research instead - it looks way safer in pretty much all regards.
I feel like journeymen who would poke an ominous box with clearly inhuman blood leaking out of it would not have survived to the age of 30 the way these have.
 
I feel like journeymen who would poke an ominous box with clearly inhuman blood leaking out of it would not have survived to the age of 30 the way these have.

Johan lived to Magister and he wants to poke ominous magically radioactive clearly one sneeze away from explosion "engineering" of Skaven. :V
Wizards can be fairly curious bunch it appears.
 
I'm sure there are a lot of good reasons to delay it, but we've literally been doing that since Turn 8, which was 11 turns and a year and a half ago. I'm entirely uncertain that we will ever decide to stop delaying. There are always going to be better opportunities, and more time-sensitive things to do.
I mean, considering everything that happened since we trapped the Asp that stopped us from doing anything with it (Abelhelm's death, the Sylvania campaign, and dwarves happening), you can't say it was wholly on the players deciding to delay.

I don't think anyone is "against" ever dealing with the snake juice. Now that Mathilde's finally in a permanent residence with gainful employment, there's nothing else demanding her attention, barring the proper facilities getting set up.
 
[X] Plan Publishing Power

This plan has (almost) everything I want.
Let me shill for it:
1) Researching Juice without setting up UberLab is suboptimal. We are building Lab Tower now, UberLab will become operational next turn
2) Our subordinates have their own action to pursue their interests. Paying them money for doing nothing is strange.
3) Gunnars and human burials is a time-limited opportunity to build relationship with fellow Council member who knows useful skill besides (Greatswording)
4) Ranald Shrine is not critical yet, but better set it up now (during somewhat relaxed turn) than wait until deadline and end up with too much critical tasks at our hands
5) Skaven with cool toys for Johann are Skryre, not Mors, so I don't understand where all "poke Mors together" hype comes from.

Only thing that plan lacks is swording lessons from Gunnars in social slot, but I can live with Wolf.
 
These quotes basically cover our interaction with Johann after offering him a job. Note the lack of enthusiasm.
Johann is less enthusiastic but a lot more entertaining, as you put just enough of a hint on Journeyman that he suspects that you know but he doesn't know that you know.
Johann wasn't feeling cooperative in the field of hint-taking, and you almost had to tip your hand by the end. The statement 'it would be a shame if the Dwarves thought less of us for a wizard like yourself to not hold their proper rank' earned you a long stare, but he never ended up asking the question on the tip of his tongue and instead muttered an agreement and left to pack, still not entirely sure whether you knew. Hopefully he spends his time in Altdorf constructively, since it would take a stay of at least a few months for his 'promotion' to be convincingly 'earned'.
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We can bar him from K8P entirely and he will have no recourse. We have basically all the power here.
Yes we do. But I'd rather he work for us willingly. He's a peer in the college, quite possibly a better established peer. Let's not make him an enemy. I want to work with him to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement. Sort of like "This is what you get if you work for me". Stuff like like access to our library may well be invaluable for him.
Who's talking about intimidation? On the other hand "Hey you agreed to take Belegars money, here's a task for the good of the Hold" is by no means unreasonable.

And if he is going to balk at not doing whatever he wants all the time, might as well find out now?
We already forced him to work for us. My point is that if we don't actually try to get him to work with us, we won't find out will we? We've already handled his lies so that he isn't a liability to our relationship to the dwarves. Now that he's done that, let's either come to a mutually beneficial arrangement or out off his pay, let him do his thing while hiring someone else to take his place.
Working under Mathilde is his price for a permit to poke at Skaven from a safe base behind dwarven defenses.
If we didn't force him to work for us, he would have got that stuff anyway. There's a reason you use a carrot and a stick not only a stick.
I mean if that's the case, I uh..hope he packs up and leave?
He agreed to work under our command and get Belegar's pay, if he doesn't like it then well the exit is right there.
Sure losing his spells would be a loss but I rather have someone who we can trust.
Heck maybe we can nab a Bright Wizard.
Look man, we voted to get him under us. He's here because his life's work is trying to reverse engineer skaven tech. We can choose to bar him from working here and earn an enemy for life, or we can spend an action to see if we can come to an arrangement. If we can't, we can just cut off the pay and let him focus on his own work while hiring someone else.

Like imagine if someone locked the snekjuice in a vault and said "you have to work for me, or you won't get to research that". We wouldn't be very happy would we? A happy subordinate is worth a lot more than an unhappy one.

This is something that needs handling. Let's handle it.
 
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[X] Plan Publishing Power

This plan has (almost) everything I want.
Let me shill for it:
1) Researching Juice without setting up UberLab is suboptimal. We are building Lab Tower now, UberLab will become operational next turn
2) Our subordinates have their own action to pursue their interests. Paying them money for doing nothing is strange.
3) Gunnars and human burials is a time-limited opportunity to build relationship with fellow Council member who knows useful skill besides (Greatswording)
4) Ranald Shrine is not critical yet, but better set it up now (during somewhat relaxed turn) than wait until deadline and end up with too much critical tasks at our hands
5) Skaven with cool toys for Johann are Skryre, not Mors, so I don't understand where all "poke Mors together" hype comes from.

Only thing that plan lacks is swording lessons from Gunnars in social slot, but I can live with Wolf.
Have you considered that Plan Magical Mathilde meets criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 of your shilling?
 
Yes we do. But I'd rather he work for us willingly. He's a peer in the college, quite possibly a better established peer. Let's not make him an enemy. I want to work with him to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement. Sort of like "This is what you get if you work for me". Stuff like like access to our library may well be invaluable for him.
He is working for us willingly? He is choosing to work part time under us in exchange for access to Skaven and their tech. That's the arrangement. The assertion that we will make an enemy of him if we 'force' him to use one of his six actions per turn on his job is kinda bizarre?
 
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