Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

The armor options are:
-keep tradition 100% even if it's a loss for the hold, +outer diplomacy
-keep tradition a bit but bend a little to benefit, +military
-new hold, new ways, +inner diplomacy from gifts.
I think that new ways option is the best one here even disregarding it's effect on the ubersword.

vsh said:

The armor options are:
-keep tradition 100% even if it's a loss for the hold, +outer diplomacy
-keep tradition a bit but bend a little to benefit, +military
-new hold, new ways, be glad we saved and sanctified the corpse, +inner diplomacy from gifts.
I think that new ways option is the best one here even disregarding it's effect on the ubersword.

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It was looted from a Stormvermin corpse, so we didn't save and sanctify any corpse.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Soizic, Bretonnian Questing Knight
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.


I changed my mind. Much as the merchant is nice, I just cant resist having a Questing Knight invited to Mathilde's Book Club. Especially since we will be giving them that torc.

Still no preference for Rune though.

Kornet said:

Foe everyone claiming that re-forging armor is grudgeworty: remember, we are not determining it's fate. We are merely advising. If it is indeed grudgeworthy, Belegar will not do it.

Ours is but a single voice, and the power of decision is not in our hands.

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Honestly, I think that Belegar's been given carte blanche for those kinds of decision. Thorgrim has almost withdrawn Karak Anzor support from Belegar but tacitly allowed him to try new ways.

vsh said:

Honestly, I think that Belegar's been given carte blanche for those kinds of decision. Thorgrim has almost withdrawn Karak Anzor support from Belegar but tacitly allowed him to try new ways.

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We are not that versed in grudgelore and dwarven diplomacy. Thankfully, we have a dwarf diplomatic advisor on the council, let him be the one who worries about that kind of things and brings this part of the matter to our king.

Our job as an advisor is to suggest the best course of action from the viewpoint of our official position.

Withholding advise should be only done when the action will not affect our sphere of responsibility, which is not the case here.

primemountain said:

A treat for the entire UberSword! Party, and @TotallyNotEvil as the current leader of the Inspiring Legend weapon plan, have a quote from realms of Sorcery:

To put things into perspective,
over the course of a character's lifespan, if he ever gains one
magic item, he is singularly lucky. Only the mightiest heroes
and champions have more, and of them, almost none have
more than three. More than even their rarity, the Colleges of
Magic, temples, Imperial Armory and the Witch Hunters
all take steps to acquire these items, sequestering them away
to safeguard the populace from the magic item's corrupting
influence or to add the item to the Empire's arsenal to combat
the hordes of Chaos and the marauding bands of Greenskins.
And when acquired, characters who reveal the nature of the
item in a public way are guaranteed to attract unwanted
attention from some of the most powerful people in the Old
World.

Bolded for reference.

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We already have more magic items than many lord level characters, adding a dwarf sword isn't going to change much in that regard. We are not exactly a wandering adventurer who is a soft target for opportunistic thieves.

TotallyNotEvil said:

Remember all those nice options like "set up company policy to something other than maximum lucre" and "employ it as spy ring and info collection agency"?

Say bye-bye to those if Dwarven businessmen enter into the fray.

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Pretty sure we could include a "For the Good of Empire and Allies first, personal profit second." policy. They might interpret that one differently, though. Possibly literally seeing it as a public rather than private asset, for example.

primemountain said:

the Colleges of
Magic,[…] add the item to the Empire's arsenal to combat
the hordes of Chaos and the marauding bands of Greenskins.

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Pretty sure we are doing this part. As long as all the bling is given to the Colleges/Dwarves/Imperial Armory if Mathilde dies, it should be fine.

A bit worried giving away the torc may raise eyebrows, though.

primemountain said:

A treat for the entire UberSword! Party, and @TotallyNotEvil as the current leader of the Inspiring Legend weapon plan, have a quote from realms of Sorcery:

To put things into perspective,
over the course of a character's lifespan, if he ever gains one
magic item, he is singularly lucky. Only the mightiest heroes
and champions have more, and of them, almost none have
more than three. More than even their rarity, the Colleges of
Magic, temples, Imperial Armory and the Witch Hunters
all take steps to acquire these items, sequestering them away
to safeguard the populace from the magic item's corrupting
influence or to add the item to the Empire's arsenal to combat
the hordes of Chaos and the marauding bands of Greenskins.
And when acquired, characters who reveal the nature of the
item in a public way are guaranteed to attract unwanted
attention from some of the most powerful people in the Old
World.

Bolded for reference.

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That is advice for characters who work within the scope of WFRP. We have passed this line long ago, even talking just stats we are more powerful than is legal there, and we have a fair bit of gear and authority to remove us even further. In fact, we are exactly one of the parties it advises the adventurers to be wary of.

It is a statement advising murderhoboes to be cautious, lest we come and take their trinkets from them.

Regarding the sword thing, while I am pretty convinced that a 25 favor artefact makes a lot a sense, I wonder if there might not be better options than a sword. Most of what we do is not swording things.

Like, there is that flying Rune that help with throwing weapons and makes them return to us afterwards. Wouldn't that be more useful to us than a more killy sword on, say, a knife? Or a Runed crossbow bolt? As far as weapons go. We assassinate more than we fight, or at least do more with our assassination than our fighting.

Otherwise, since we can't wear armor, sneaky stuff and stuff that would help with our magic (by helping with miscasts, like that Dhar Burning Rune, or perhaps something that, like Kraggs Anvil of Doom, forces in the winds around it and bullies them into desired shape. Would be perfect for getting rid of out of control Ulgu when we miscast.) could be very useful.

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [RUNE] No purchase.

Enerael said:

Regarding the sword thing, while I am pretty convinced that a 25 favor artefact makes a lot a sense, I wonder if there might not be better options than a sword. Most of what we do is not swording things.

Like, there is that flying Rune that help with throwing weapons and makes them return to us afterwards. Wouldn't that be more useful to us than a more killy sword on, say, a knife? Or a Runed crossbow bolt? As far as weapons go. We assassinate more than we fight, or at least do more with our assassination than our fighting.

Otherwise, since we can't wear armor, sneaky stuff and stuff that would help with our magic (by helping with miscasts, like that Dhar Burning Rune, or perhaps something that, like Kraggs Anvil of Doom, forces in the winds around it and bullies them into desired shape. Would be perfect for getting rid of out of control Ulgu when we miscast.) could be very useful.

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Our talisman slot is already occupied. In fact, the only magic item slot not occupied is the weapon slot.

And greatsword is thematic enough for Mathilde that it is the only weapon she can earn a trait for mastering.

Plus, most of us are after the legend and not utility. And it is weapons that legends grow around.

Really curious what kind of effects a giant spider spidersilk robe would have, especially if we get it enchanted, would be really cool.

for any one worried that reforging the armour would lead to Grudges I'd like to point out if that's actually true then there's literally zero chance that Belegar will do it.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase.
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Daemons.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword

I see my wording was rather misleading, my apologies. When I voted '[X] [ENCHANTMENT] Item to communicate with The We.' I did not intend it to be something given to The We. I intended it to be something Mathilde keeps for personal use because the ability to talk to animals is awesome utility. Talking to The We is but one of many uses.
Do people not want to use Randal's cats as spies? Do people think the non-Skaven rats aren't a useful information source? Think of all the secrets horses are privy to because people don't expect their non-talking mount to tattle. Or the giant Winter Wolves of the ulricans. (Come to think of it will Wolf get the ability to speak on his own or do we need to facilitate that?)
Probably too late now for this voting phase but still…

The library vote looks… reasonable. I'm a little concerned with the amount of money we are haemorrhaging but hopefully we will run out of topics before we run out of ingots. 2 College favours for something we will use near constantly is acceptable.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Soizic, Bretonnian Questing Knight
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.

[X] [ENCHANTMENT] An item of Talk With Beast for Mathilde's personal use. (3 Favours)

Angelform said:

I see my wording was rather misleading, my apologies. When I voted '[X] [ENCHANTMENT] Item to communicate with The We.' I did not intend it to be something given to The We. I intended it to be something Mathilde keeps for personal use because the ability to talk to animals is awesome utility. Talking to The We is but one of many uses.
Do people not want to use Randal's cats as spies? Do people think the non-Skaven rats aren't a useful information source? Think of all the secrets horses are privy to because people don't expect their non-talking mount to tattle. Or the giant Winter Wolves of the ulricans. (Come to think of it will Wolf get the ability to speak on his own or do we need to facilitate that?)
Probably too late now for this voting phase but still…

The library vote looks… reasonable. I'm a little concerned with the amount of money we are haemorrhaging but hopefully we will run out of topics before we run out of ingots. 2 College favours for something we will use near constantly is acceptable.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Soizic, Bretonnian Questing Knight
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.

[X] [ENCHANTMENT] An item of Talk With Beast for Mathilde's personal use. (3 Favours)

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I'm sceptical that a new enchanted item cote has a chance, but I'm willing to try.

You have my support. Vote edited.

Just a reminder that the Karaz Ankor supports Belegar to a significant extent. Yes, Karaz-a-Karak has tenous relations with him and isn't supporting him, and Karak Kadrin's position is uncertain and not directly supportive. On the other hand, all of the New Holds (Karak Izor, Karak Hirn, Karak Norn, Karak Azgaraz, Karak Anghazar, Karak Gantuk), as well as most of the Old Holds (Barak Varr, Zhufbar, Karak Azul) are directly and heavily supporting Belegar.

The lack of support from KaK and Kadrin hurts, but not extremely so considering the majority of the dwarf holds support Belegar.

[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword

Codex said:

Just a reminder that the Karaz Ankor supports Belegar to a significant extent. Yes, Karaz-a-Karak has tenous relations with him and isn't supporting him, and Karak Kadrin's position is uncertain and not directly supportive. On the other hand, all of the New Holds (Karak Izor, Karak Hirn, Karak Norn, Karak Azgaraz, Karak Anghazar, Karak Gantuk), as well as most of the Old Holds (Barak Varr, Zhufbar, Karak Azul) are directly and heavily supporting Belegar.

The lack of support from KaK and Kadrin hurts, but not extremely so considering the majority of the dwarf holds support Belegar.

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I'd argue that Karaz-a-Karak actually supports him, just in a roundabout way. What did the high king do when presented with the rift?

He deployed a bunch of airpower, master engineers to maintain it and produce new aircraft, and a great political boon - the heir to Zhufbar who is very sympathetic to k8p cause.

To me, that screams that he positively, desperately wants to be proven wrong, he just doesn't dare to really hope.

By the way, the said heir is full of shit. He is not a hostage and he likely never was. Using a hostage as the head of a task force seconded to your political opponent (with similar political views to thevsaid hostage) is pretty much the opposite of how this whole hostage business works.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons.
[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase.

Codex said:

Just a reminder that the Karaz Ankor supports Belegar to a significant extent. Yes, Karaz-a-Karak has tenous relations with him and isn't supporting him, and Karak Kadrin's position is uncertain and not directly supportive. On the other hand, all of the New Holds (Karak Izor, Karak Hirn, Karak Norn, Karak Azgaraz, Karak Anghazar, Karak Gantuk), as well as most of the Old Holds (Barak Varr, Zhufbar, Karak Azul) are directly and heavily supporting Belegar.

The lack of support from KaK and Kadrin hurts, but not extremely so considering the majority of the dwarf holds support Belegar.

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Also, Karak Kadrin probably think he's a pretty cool guy, considering he managed to point their slayers at a giant group of trolls as soon as we got here, and most of them got super glorious deaths killing them and saving thousands of honorable dwarfish lives.

So there has been a lot of talk about how advising Belegar to reforge the armor while commissioning a weapon is kinda skeevy and honestly I felt the same way. But after thinking about it, I realized that I disagree. Let me explain my logic by first considering the options without our great-sword in the balance.

We have the diplomatic option to send it back to the original owners. This will build strong diplomatic ties and if the recipient is one of the old holds or even Karaz a Karak, this could end up being a great coup diplomatically speaking. Then we have two separate options for the personal use of K8P. I feel like this is enough to conclude that diplomatically speaking, while keeping it for ourselves won't gain us much plus points with Karaz Ankor, it shouldn't get us any minus points either otherwise they wouldn't even be options. The question becomes do we want to give a more conservative dwarven image or do we want to double down on the image that we are projecting. Reforging the armor into weapons for the new Hold shows a degree of acceptance towards the races that inhabit it, especially if a glomril weapon is distributed among them.

This is where - for me - the greatsword tips the balance. There is a lot of difference in terms of imagery with that and without. Without the 25 favor weapon, we have powerful symbols that are great for internal diplomacy and morale. With it we have Kragg himself choosing to re-forge the armour into a weapon for Mathilde Weber, one of the most controversial choices of councillor but also one of the people responsible for the success of the expedition. It's also not just any weapon, but his masterpiece. Just by owning it and working for Belegar, Kragg is giving us and by extension K8P his own tacit approval. Given he's famous for his conservatism, his approval would hold large amount of influence over Karaz Ankor.

As such, I don't feel wrong or skeevy about advising Belegar to reforge the armour. Sure, it sounds skeevy but it's just advice and mentioning the blade we will be commissioning completely changes the optic of the option. In fact, it's absolutely criminal to keep this information from him. Belegar is a king and he is free to not heed our counsel but that doesn't mean we shouldn't give it. He should have all the facts to work with.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks
[X] [UNDUMGI] Soizic, Bretonnian Questing Knight
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Daemons.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword

Ok, I am convinced of the Rune Sword now. Having it be part of Mathilde's Legend seem like a worthy use of 25 favours. Also a Greatsword is a prominent part of her Noble Coat of Arms.

[X] Plan Web of Secrets
- [X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the skaven.
-[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
-[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.
-[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase.
-[X] [RUNE] No purchase.
-[X] [ENCHANTMENT] No purchase.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons.
[X] [LIBRARY] No Purchase