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Using the spiders against the greenskins is probably not a great idea, as grenskins magic can fuck with hiveminds, as Waaargh magic is sort of on the same wavelength. There is a reason why some goblins can ride spiders. Let's turn the spiders on folks who they are ideal against, the Skaven. The Skaven are never going to negotiate with them. Or treat them as anything but pets to muitate and butcher.

The Skaven move in darkness, without eyesight. Sure they organize, but think about it, imagine spider traps outside the dwarven held defenses of the hold? In the dark, the Skaven avoid stuff by smell and touch/whisker. You know what's horrible for such blind travel? Spider webs.

If the spiders can trust in the dwarves to shield their nests from organized reprisal, they can hunt the Skaven with impunity.

And it makes it much harder for the Skaven to unite, because "Those mean old dwarves are a threat" is something Skaven can agree on. You think any real Ratlord will take a threat of a giant spider hive, seriously? When he has warpstone fire throwers and lots of expendable subordinates?

The Skaven are allways going to be a threat from underneath. Trade the headache to the spiders. They get to feed, the dwarves don't have to bleed, and with their spawning grounds secure behind dwarven defenses, they can keep killing each other forever, as long as the Empire can provide Ambers to negotiate with.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.
-[X] [SPIDER] Given a few decades to test the military alliance first, of course.

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.
As for the armor? Symbols are powerful. If we find lots more, we should give it and use it for local forces, but the first one recovered should go back, to tell everyone in the Karaz, We Are Here.

[] [RUNE] You would like to purchase an Axe/Greataxe for 20 favor. Something to commemorate the retaking of Karag Eight Peaks, and something fit for a Ranger/Scout.

Might not be around when the rune vote unlocks, so:

On the rune vote, don't make dwarves make a sword. Its easier for Mat to learn to wield a Greataxe, than it is for a reactionary, grumbling dwarf to forge blades. He'll hate you for it. His disapproval will sore. This is entirely speculation, but it might add months and spend some of the favor spend on it being a sword, before the Runelord is satisfied with the product. Spare old Kragg the pain, he's done so well. I think a 20 point Axe/Greataxe might do as well as job as a 25 point sword. Their dwarves. The stubborness is legendary.

Don't be a dick to ancient dwarven Runelords, they will remember it.

And if you make a weapon great enough, like 25 points, which is the limits of ability for the greateest Runelord alive, the Witch King might drop by to steal it. Or Nefrata's agents.

Don't tempt fate.

As for the Umdumgy, best I can see we might want the Empire man in charge as part of our Grey Colledge taking care of the Empire stuff. Otherwise, IDK. The Tilean is probably best for the new culture, and the Bretonian for more fightiness, though she'll likely hate the cannon, so that might be an issue.
 
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I wonder if it'd be possible to do it the other way around, and give the spiders a translation item? They're a communal mind, so it might be possible to give them an item with some sort of shared effect, where all of them get the bonus. It'd probably more difficult and complex than a simple translation item, but if it lets every spider communicate it'd be worth it.
That's why I'm throwing idea about teaching them gestures or heck even how to made crude signs that basically say "Stop friendies here!"
even with alliance, making sure our own armies don't friendlies would be wise.
but yeah I guess I'm tangentially on spider team now.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation
 
Yeah, integrating the spiders immediately would be awesome, but I don't think it's the kind of thing the Dwarves would go for. Remember that above all else they value reliable, tested relationships over a long period of time. Using the spider as a military ally not only gets all sides used to each other, but also allows the dwarfs to determine that they are in fact reliable partners. They'll be much more likely to go for closer integration the .
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.

Whilst I'm sort of concerned that this is a lot to spring on Belegar the We seems quite cooperative and can certainly provide something unique to Karak Eight Peaks. Besides spider silk clothing can be quite valuable for the hold in the longer term.
Frankly I'd be willing to spend Dwarf Favour on this because of the potential return on in.

Plus the We is really quite cute as far as hive minds go so that's a plus.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

If the human community is to grow a bit beyond just the mercenaries it needs someone who can and wants to do more than just mercenary stuff.

[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.

Mathilde probably doesn't know enough about Dawi lore to guess how each option would be received so...
 
Regarding the We, I think an item of animal speech might be a worthwhile investment to facilitate diplomatic interactions?

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [ENCHANTMENT] No purchase
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.
 
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I wonder if it'd be possible to do it the other way around, and give the spiders a translation item? They're a communal mind, so it might be possible to give them an item with some sort of shared effect, where all of them get the bonus. It'd probably more difficult and complex than a simple translation item, but if it lets every spider communicate it'd be worth it.
Actually, this is really smart. Skip out on needing to give a magic item to every person with the position by giving it to the We instead!

And even if they go rogue, what are they going to do, tell puns while they eat you? It's an item that's pretty much only useful for letting us be friends with them.
 
@BoneyM would you prefer a description like:

[RUNE] Ranger's Greatsword.

or what I originally proposed:

[ ] [RUNE] A rune weapon worth 25 points, whatever Thorek/Kragg think is most suitable for someone who wars on the forces of disorder and their works from the shadows.

Two words, gives both the type of item and the intended use. If you can think of another simple description that would fit, speak up and add it to the conversation. And please keep favor expenditure out of it, so we can choose it in its own vote rather than knife-fighting about it in the middle of all the other votes we have currently. (P.S. Writing this in a hurry so sorry if I messed something up.)

I'm not willing to vote for any kind of open vote without specifying favour, as I think getting a low favour rune weapon would be an absolutely terrible outcome, possibly permanently damaging Mathilde's abilities, much worse than delaying the decision to buy one until later.
 
I literally don't care about anything else. I love this. If we investigate the silk we might make quite some good bucks by feeding them greenskins and skaven in exchange of silk.
Now now, if the spiders are going to be fullblown citizens on equal level with everyone else (AND THEY WILL BE), we shouldn't just pay them the bare minimum to maximise profit. That would be borderline slavery!

No, if at all possible, the spiders should also have the ability to exchange their labour for various luxury items. Which means that, depending on how the spiders' mating rituals work, we might end up with a market for spider specific accesories and jewels.

If we integrate the spiders, there's a nonzero chance we end up with spiders wearing cute ribbons and fetching cloaks!
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.

[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons.
 
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It's a shame we can't get the gromil reused to make a weapon for Mathilde, but as pointed out, it belongs to the dwarves.
That was also my first thought, admittedly.
It's a shame Belegar has a crown already, in some ways.
Give it to the Karak's first Ironbreaker, and reforge the helm into a copy of Belegar's crown, to symbolically carry the Dwarflord's will into the depths in the battle against the Skaven.
 
Now now, if the spiders are going to be fullblown citizens on equal level with everyone else (AND THEY WILL BE), we shouldn't just pay them the bare minimum to maximise profit. That would be borderline slavery!

No, if at all possible, the spiders should also have the ability to exchange their labour for various luxury items. Which means that, depending on how the spiders' mating rituals work, we might end up with a market for spider specific accesories and jewels.

If we integrate the spiders, there's a nonzero chance we end up with spiders wearing cute ribbons and fetching cloaks!
I just had terrible terrible intriguing thought
Spiders writing their own romance novel.
 
Sending the spiders against the Skaven when clan Moulder (i.e. clan make horrific monsters with warpstone experiments) is in the area seems like a poor idea.

Their venom could be horrifically deadly rather than merely if Moulder get their hands on it. Or if they just grow some to giant size.
 
Either way is fine, but the less you specify the more room there is for imagination to go nuts.

Would "25 favour Greatsword" be better in your view?



Sending the spiders against the Skaven when clan Moulder (i.e. clan make horrific monsters with warpstone experiments) is in the area seems like a poor idea.

Their venom could be horrifically deadly rather than merely if Moulder get their hands on it. Or if they just grow some to giant size.

Yea I'd prefer that we send them against the Greenskin. Mathilde could join the attack for counter magic support. Who knows if we're lucky and crit again we could upgrade waaagh bane even further :p
 
Either way is fine, but the less you specify the more room there is for imagination to go nuts.

Hmm. I'm not sure which i more limiting, as a Ranger is a very specific job with lots of implications and cultural baggage to a dwarf.

It was largelly intended as flavour, so I can just revert to 25 favour greatsword.
 
On the rune vote, don't make dwarves make a sword. Its easier for Mat to learn to wield a Greataxe, than it is for a reactionary, grumbling dwarf to forge blades. He'll hate you for it. His disapproval will sore. This is entirely speculation, but it might add months and spend some of the favor spend on it being a sword, before the Runelord is satisfied with the product. Spare old Kragg the pain, he's done so well. I think a 20 point Axe/Greataxe might do as well as job as a 25 point sword. Their dwarves. The stubborness is legendary.

Don't be a dick to ancient dwarven Runelords, they will remember it.

And if you make a weapon great enough, like 25 points, which is the limits of ability for the greateest Runelord alive, the Witch King might drop by to steal it. Or Nefrata's agents.

Don't tempt fate.
On the other hand, Mathilde has powerful emotional and personal reasons to keep wielding a greatsword, something that dwarves would likely respect far more than her simply dropping it for a more convenient weapon. Also, the idea that dwarves want nothing to with swords is false- priests of one of their gods traditionally use them, as just one example, and the Runefangs are dwarven make. They might overall prefer axes and hammers, but swords are hardly a taboo or unknown weapon to them.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be allowed to scutter off into the Underway, never to be seen again.

I am feeling these ones the most, sure the community addition is awesome but I don't see it as practical.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.
 
Twenty five out of thirty eight is not the overwhelming majority. Given the way we're going with recovering the dwarven armour, it seems possible that we can earn a lot of that back.

As a mentioned elsewhere, there are some very, very high value targets around. Azorgaron, the dragon who destroyed the dwarven forges that created the Runes of Sorcery and killed the best runesmiths the dwarves had who lived there is the most obvious. Killing him would probably pay off the weapon in one go, and Mathilde is uniquely suited to sneak in and do it one day. However, killing an ancient dragon requires absolutely top tier weapons.

That's only one example. The Warboss of Karak Drazh is another.
I have heard the arguments for a wastefully expensive weapons and remain unmoved.
 
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