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I am really looking forward to us explaining the money to the grey college
Going by the last time we had a sudden windfall a simple "I looted/earned this stuff retaking a Karag" will be enough for the 'how did you get it' side of the equation.
They will be rather more interested in which of the cavernous loopholes in the vow of poverty we intend to shove our new hoard. So long as we can justify using it for the benefit of Dame Weber rather than Magister Mathilde we should be fine.
 
The main problem with the light grobi town on fire is that it's easy for the orcs and goblins to not get killed, they can flee the fire and it doesn't stop them interfering the assault on the Citadel. The burning shadows plan on the other hand is vastly more difficult for them to flee from as they'll be a hell of a lot more confused as to what is happening and will occur much more rapidly. The fire plan if we couldn't cast burning shadows wouldn't be terrible but it's no where near as effective as the burning shadows plan nor will it be any where near as safe.

The combined plan is also a pretty bad idea because it means doing the Burning shadows thing when the Grobi have been effectively roused and warned that they're under attack it will mean doing it when they're looking for who ever attacked them. Also it's splitting the vote on top which means neither burning shadows or Plan combi will get through unless people vote for both.
 
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Even if we don't start a firestorm, we can probably still expect a lot of in-fighting.

Presumably, they only reason the different factions aren't fighting right now is because things have balanced out. That will change when the fires destroy "fortifications" or just plain force the goblins and orcs to move around.
 
I like the general plan of setting everything on fire but we need to check which way the wind generally blows. We need to make sure the smoke and flame will be carried away from the citadel.
 
If the Grudge is against a fellow Dwarf, then first you talk to them, then your Clan Elders talk to their Clan Elders, then your King talks to their King, then escalate to the High King for him to adjudicate. This series of safety valves mean that as Grudge-happy as the Dwarves are, it's actually very rare for Dwarf-on-Dwarf Grudges to develop.
Just to pick up a point from a while back: This isn't quite true. Per Grudgelore, dwarf-on-dwarf grudges still happen fairly commonly - there's examples like a grudge levied against a clan because they brought shoddy supplies to the stores for a campaign. It's simply that, because everybody involved is nominally on the same side and understands the importance of grudges, the matter is usually resolved diplomatically rather than through violence.
 
I like the general plan of setting everything on fire but we need to check which way the wind generally blows. We need to make sure the smoke and flame will be carried away from the citadel.
It's south-north (or was it north-south?). GM said so somewhere recently. Either way, it's not blowing towards the citadel.
 
Do people actually think Orcs can't self reflect and aren't people?
I've noticed that it's not unusual for people to conflate WH Fantasy Orcs with 40k Orks. With 40k Orks, the argument that they aren't capable of changing themselves away from being psychotically violent does hold water. In 40k, Orks are an (possibly incomplete) Anti-Necron/C'tan bioweapon that effectively hasn't changed at all in the 60 million years since the fall of the Old Ones. Whether they're people and capable of self-reflection is actually tangiental to the core of the issue: all that 40k Orks are capable of doing with self-reflection is reaffirming how nice and fun a proper Waaagh! is. The only thing that's "changed" in 60 million years is that regular "Orks" are pretty much the larval stage of their species' life cycles and they're being culled aggressively and early enough that it's really rare for them to actually reach the more mature stages (and sizes) they used to reach when they were the Krorks of the War in Heaven. Which begs the question of whether Orks are still people if they're literally incapable of changing their nature away from the design intended by the Old Ones.

But that's all 40k Orks. WH Fantasy Orks and Goblins are very much a species of people, even if GW's need for miniature sales ensures their culture is perpetually warlike and backstabby as a whole. To such an extend that self-reflecting individuals realize that sticking with their own species is always the safe option, because the safe option for anyone else they could turn to is to assume the Ork/Goblin coming to "talk" is some kind of ruse and respond with arrows, bolts or bullets.
 
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I'm not caught up to the discussion on what to do with the gold (apart from "be the dragon") but to be honest I think we can probably (and honestly) tell the college that a large portion of it will be spent on building a really good and tough research area (where yet to be decided) and on experiments.

From what I understand enchanting is a damn expensive to really get skilled at, and we badly want to increase our skills there. We also want to learn about the snake juice, which I also expect to be expensive. If we use it for enchanting we'll no doubt need to find a lot of materials to try and see what it works with. If not and we go down the snake-bloodomancy tree* I expect a few failures where we will need to replace things. Like the lab.

The only problem might be the college expecting regular results and/or reports, but now that Mathilde will have turned in both her matrix and her MAP I think there will be less concern that she really isn't going to be useful as a researcher, and so a bit less scrutiny.

*Now including the exciting field of how to trapp warp-creatures in a paradoxical state of perpetual agony in order to harvest their essence!
 
But that's all 40k Orks. WH Fantasy Orks and Goblins are very much a species of people, even if GW's need for miniature sales ensures their culture is perpetually warlike and backstabby as a whole. To such an extend that self-reflecting individuals realize that sticking with their own species is always the safe option, because the safe option for anyone else they could turn to is to assume the Ork/Goblin coming to "talk" is some kind of ruse and respond with arrows, bolts or bullets.
Actually, there's a factor you're not considering, which is common to both 40k and Fantasy. The psychic gestalt. Orcs and Goblins can't self reflect because of the giant voice of every other orc/goblin in their heads telling them to Waaagh!

Chaos races are more independent, because the chaos gods' grip on their soul is not always actively influencing them, but it certainly could correct any impulses of cooperation with others that aren't regarded as sufficiently according to keikaku.
 
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Actually, there's a factor you're not considering, which is common to both 40k and Fantasy. The psychic gestalt. Orcs and Goblins can't self reflect because of the giant voice of every other orc/goblin in their heads telling them to Waaagh!

I mean, I looked up Skarsnik, and while he was a nasty piece of work, he was definitely capable of self-reflection.
 
Go in and kill local war bosses seems like a plan to me, I dunno how military Mathilde should get. Leave that to dwarves
 
[x] plan: It wuz Dem!
-[x] infiltrate and plant delayed incendiaries
-[x] widely scatter caltrops with black lotus poison.
-[x] set off some explosions away from the citadel
-[x] impersonate a big orc to scream out lies about who is attacking and from where. Slip away, repeat elsewhere.
-[x] Panoramia ritual casts father of thorns to quietly seal the gate.

So, basic idea is to lean hard enough into stirring things up that the citadel battle sounds like background noise. The caltrops should be widely enough scattered that the effect is random grobi going beserk rather than area denial, the incendiaries are for the confusion and to give an immediate threat, explosions are to cover the noise of the cannon and ideally rile up/lure out trolls to the caldera, and infiltrating/posing as orcs is to get them pointed at fake threats or each other.

Panoramia is the backstop, to block the gate from any that realize what is actually going on.
 
I don't see why having a psychic gestalt would make them less capable of being people.

We see this with Skarsnik actually.

When Gobbla dies in End Times he actually get depressed and is saddened by his loss.

That's not very orky behavior but he was still able to do it.

So maybe the psychic gestalt is more background influencer rather than full-blown mind control people may suggest
 
I was suprised there were no reaction rolls in how badly Belegar and Kragg would react to Math knowing about the Dawi Zharr, or were those included with the Mork rolls as a general package?
That Dwarf rep she's been earning has a point...
Because this is ridiculous if true - means that grey wizards are horrifying in mountains and can ape Battle Wizard tier spells without any of the risks so long there is a big enough shadow.
Where is the catch?

Structures...and note it won't count the interior of a dark building.

Its like kicking someone off a cliff. It'd probably kill the person but the situation is difficult to set up on purpose without a lot of telltale signs. So its just perfect time and place.
You're going to need some good evidence to prove that Mathilde can do it with shadows of any distance. The spells are based on Realms of Sorcery and we know the distance is limited there (within 18 yards).
Word of GM said the idea works.
Do people actually think Orcs can't self reflect and aren't people?
Theres enough individuality around to bust that.

I'd actually lean towards there being a lot more potential persons out there, what with a fantasy setting. We saw a giant spider with enough intelligence to register in Ulgu.

Not that it changes much IC, since we've killed quite a number of humans as it is. State Inquisitors don't tend to ask a lot of questions about human rights even for other humans.

More concerned with citizens and allies.
I am also more curious about the implications of dwarven soul lore than I am pleased about the natural 100. We should definetly track down that priest and ask what the hell is up with our shadow.
We know whats up with our shadow. Its a well known Ulgu arcane mark and theoretically its some corner of our soul(or some Ulgu warp structure/creature we've fused to) having a fine old time wriggling about.
Just to pick up a point from a while back: This isn't quite true. Per Grudgelore, dwarf-on-dwarf grudges still happen fairly commonly - there's examples like a grudge levied against a clan because they brought shoddy supplies to the stores for a campaign. It's simply that, because everybody involved is nominally on the same side and understands the importance of grudges, the matter is usually resolved diplomatically rather than through violence.
So less that grudges don't happen much and more that they don't escalate much. And if then, deliberately so rather than accidentally so.
 
Side note if this is the end of the campaign and if the Set it on fire plan works, that would mean that this is two campaigns that Mathilde has been on that have ended with a town being set on fire.
 
Colour me unconvinced. Needs a very very high proof.
And then it's a criminal waste of good spirits!
I mean, if you don't want to use good spirits, I'm sure someone back in our homeland could teach us how to summon exclusively bad ones. Sure, listening without reflexively swording them might prove difficult, but maybe they could write their notes down in a book or similar.
 
True, but would he have been capable of it if he'd gone against the grain of his species' collective consciousness and the gods with a direct claim on his soul? Or would his mind have been squashed by the weight of the tide?
It'd be pretty orky to stand up and tell the Waagh to fuck off. Heck, I'm willing to bet that naturally arising Warbosses and Shamans are usually those with enough imagination and will to seize control of the Waagh rather than being dragged around by it.

And theres some downright weird orc pirates and mercenary groups wandering around.

E: Heck, the actual Old One bioweapons here are the Slaan, Elves, Dwarves, Ogres, Halflings and Humans.
Just never quite gotten debugged yet.
 
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I don't see why having a psychic gestalt would make them less capable of being people.

We see this with Skarsnik actually.

When Gobbla dies in End Times he actually get depressed and is saddened by his loss.

That's not very orky behavior but he was still able to do it.

So maybe the psychic gestalt is more background influencer rather than full-blown mind control people may suggest
He can be sad about things, like the end of a good fight and I guess deaths. What he's not allowed to do is, say, decide to become a pacifist, or something else that is really against the tenets of Greenskins. If he did that the direct connection between him and other greenskins, and between him and Gork and Mork, would kick his ass so hard he'd never sit still again.
It'd be pretty orky to stand up and tell the Waagh to fuck off. Heck, I'm willing to bet that naturally arising Warbosses and Shamans are usually those with enough imagination and will to seize control of the Waagh rather than being dragged around by it.

And theres some downright weird orc pirates and mercenary groups wandering around.
Oh, there's some control. But it's riding the current of the Waagh, not fighting against it. That why they're orc pirates and mercenaries, not orc merchants and farmers.
 
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