Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

veekie said:

We should write a report on that in the next downtime. This is possibly the first use of an Anvil of Doom in battle where a Magister with Windreader was in a perfect position to watch the whole thing go down from a safe vantage point.

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An extra comment to this. Mathilde's lens has a pretty amazing zoom function to be able to see the presence of the hundreds of smaller runes engraved on the larger carved runes he struck against the anvil.

Note also that her spying on the anvil was before the dwarves showed up. When she did she focused her view on the progress of the battle as if she'd been doing that all along...

BoneyM said:

Losses at the Battle of Karag Nar:
Karak Hirn: 50 Rangers
Karak Izor: 150 Longbeards, 400 Warriors
Unaffiliated Dwarves: 500 Adventurers

Demigryph Knights: 5 Knights.
Unaffiliated Humans: 800 Adventurers

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Wow. The Human Adventurers lost less than a thousand men.

I was expecting to see their numbers halved against that Green Flood, Kragg Anvil & artillery support or no.

Tally post

The Battle of Karag Nar will almost certainly form a legend for the humans who took part. It's hard enough for trained men to hold the line against that many orcs but for a mash together unit that has never really fought together, the difficulty of holding that line is unimaginable to me. It's pretty incredible what they did. I can definitely see a future merc company using this battle as their formation legend.

[X] The death of the Warboss and the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.

The rest is no one's business.

Okay, lets see...
-Clan Angrund - No losses in Karag Nar
-Clan Huzkul - No losses in Karag Nar
-Karak Kadrin - No losses in Karag Nar
-Karak Hirn - 50 Rangers, no other losses.
-Karak Izor - 150 Longbeards(ow), 400 Warriors, 500 Adventurers and Vagabonds.
-Karak Norn - No losses except ammo.
-College - No losses.
-Knights of Taal's Fury - No losses.
-Knights of the Vengeful Sun - 5 Demigryph Knights
-Winter Wolves - No losses.
-Codrin's Forces - 800 adventurers
-Halflings - No losses.

By Ranald's dice, we lost only 800 out of a melee wall of rabble against orcs. Kragg's runes do not shit around.
Karak Izor's going to feel those dead longbeards, but overall the casualties are effectively the greenskins charging wildly into a killing field and then running away once they are all the way through so they charge through the killing field AGAIN.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.


[X] Praise Panoramia. We didn't want her going into battle because exhaustion causes miscasts. She didn't go into battle until she saw orks about to descend on her comrades, and made the right judgement that the risk of miscast wasn't as bad as the risk of being overrun by orks. It was exactly the right reason and time to break orders, and in all honesty kept to the spirit of those orders.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.


If need be we can always reveal Ranald's role later, if the God wants to .

I've actually changed my mind on the Ranald thing... Why? Well... Bragging about what Ranald did... actually, that might make for an interesting story/outcome, you know?

Like. This is an event where Ranald intervened to help a (Grey) Wizard. If you want to build up some stories or narratives about Ranald being a patron to grey magic, then... Perhaps this wouldn't be such a bad opportunity, eh?

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.

Currently voting for both those options, because what I (now) actually want to win is the "and also tell about Ranald" one, I don't want to risk the other one losing to the other options.


I dunno if it's all that reasonable. I dunno if it'd even spread very far from the high command council, or if they'd keep it secret. But... I'd like to tell that story, you know?

Plus, honestly, perhaps them knowing that Mathilde worships Ranald -- and that Ranald saved her butt on this -- would mean that they'd associate those things about her in their mind. i.e. The "a mage and a Ranald-worshipper" thing.

EDIT: Changed vote again... To just warboss, idol, weakening Mork...

veekie said:

Okay, lets see...
-Clan Angrund - No losses in Karag Nar
-Clan Huzkul - No losses in Karag Nar
-Karak Kadrin - No losses in Karag Nar
-Karak Hirn - 50 Rangers, no other losses.
-Karak Izor - 150 Longbeards(ow), 400 Warriors, 500 Adventurers and Vagabonds.
-Karak Norn - No losses except ammo.
-College - No losses.
-Knights of Taal's Fury - No losses.
-Knights of the Vengeful Sun - 5 Demigryph Knights
-Winter Wolves - No losses.
-Codrin's Forces - 800 adventurers
-Halflings - No losses.

By Ranald's dice, we lost only 800 out of a melee wall of rabble against orcs. Kragg's runes do not shit around.
Karak Izor's going to feel those dead longbeards, but overall the casualties are effectively the greenskins charging wildly into a killing field and then running away once they are all the way through so they charge through the killing field AGAIN.

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Longbeard losses are starting to mount, which hurts. Those replacements come at only a trickle.

Garlak said:

I've actually changed my mind on the Ranald thing... Why? Well... Bragging about what Ranald did... actually, that might make for an interesting story/outcome, you know?

Like. This is an event where Ranald intervened to help a (Grey) Wizard. If you want to build up some stories or narratives about Ranald being a patron to grey magic, then... Perhaps this wouldn't be such a bad opportunity, eh?

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork and strengthening of Ranald.

Currently voting for both those options, because what I (now) actually want to win is the "and also tell about Ranald" one, I don't want to risk the other one losing to the other options.


I dunno if it's all that reasonable. I dunno if it'd even spread very far from the high command council, or if they'd keep it secret. But... I'd like to tell that story, you know?

Plus, honestly, perhaps them knowing that Mathilde worships Ranald -- and that Ranald saved her butt on this -- would mean that they'd associate those things about her in their mind. i.e. The "a mage and a Ranald-worshipper" thing.

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Sure. But we should tell that to the Grey Order, not dwarves, not other humans. We can tell this story to other worshipers of Ranald, I don't think we should tell it to the general public. Ranald is already a patron of Grey Wizards. But knowing that may not be for the best for everyone.

OneirosTheWriter said:

Longbeard losses are starting to mount, which hurts. Those replacements come at only a trickle.

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I'm hoping we can have the Ulricans be the first wave as any assault against the Citadel. 1,850 Foot Knights and 18,000 other infantry is solid numbers, and they've suffered the fewest losses and seen the least combat compared to the Expedition's other frontline forces.

Definitely better than sending the Karak Izor forces into another melee grind.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

OneirosTheWriter said:

Longbeard losses are starting to mount, which hurts. Those replacements come at only a trickle.

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They look like they took point on breaching a fortified position against black orc heavy infantry with a chokepoint.
<10% losses even then.

Think normally thats a job for Slayers or Firedrakes, but we're all out of Slayers and we never had Firedrakes.

Alratan said:

if something isn't suitable for the human audience, I think she'll indicate that she needs to do a more detailed debrief with the dwarves at the end of the main meeting. Simply hinting it was something magic related would have the humans running for the doors.

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Unless you get confirmation from the QM, I rather doubt that we will tell the dwarves. If we vote to not mention the weakening of Mork , we won't mention the weakening of Mork.

Now I would be fine with a vote like this:
[] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
-[] But tell Belegar about the weakening of Mork in private.

It's likely way to late for a write-in, but I will edit it into my vote post anyway, because why not.

primemountain said:

Sure. But we should tell that to the Grey Order, not dwarves, not other humans. We can tell this story to other worshipers of Ranald, I don't think we should tell it to the general public. Ranald is already a patron of Grey Wizards. But knowing that may not be for the best for everyone.

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Well.. Ranald gaining another aspect as a patron for magic users would require that there be mass belief in such happening. So this event could act as the genesis of the seed of that change but it's trusting in a lot of things going right so whilst i've voted for it i'm not pushing it super hard.

Chimeraguard said:

Wow. The Human Adventurers lost less than a thousand men.

I was expecting to see their numbers halved against that Green Flood, Kragg Anvil & artillery support or no.

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veekie said:

By Ranald's dice, we lost only 800 out of a melee wall of rabble against orcs. Kragg's runes do not shit around.

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When the adventurers go home and tell people about the Battle before the Citadel no one's going to believe them. I wouldn't want to credit it all to Kragg's rune. For morale purposes the adventurers need to be showered with praise to encourage them to believe they can do this again next time if required. Men will die to live up to such a legend.

Neshuakadal said:

The Battle of Karag Nar will almost certainly form a legend for the humans who took part. It's hard enough for trained men to hold the line against that many orcs but for a mash together unit that has never really fought together, the difficulty of holding that line is unimaginable to me. It's pretty incredible what they did. I can definitely see a future merc company using this battle as their formation legend.

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It will probably further help general human reputation amongst the dwarves that witnessed it. The umgi held the line as if they were armoured dawi. Even a conservative dwarf would find it hard to call it a shoddy performance. If a mercenary company is formed from this, I could see the dwarves giving them a runic banner, or something similar., and basically hiring them full time to secure lines of communications in the Badlands.

veekie said:

They look like they took point on breaching a fortified position against black orc heavy infantry with a chokepoint.
<10% losses even then.

Think normally thats a job for Slayers or Firedrakes, but we're all out of Slayers and we never had Firedrakes.

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Hopefully Karak Azor will have Irondrakes, or if not enough runic weapons. Thorek has been sitting there for centuries looting recovering lost runic lore and objects from the surrounding fallen holds, major and minor, and using that to create new runic gear as well as training apprentices to do the same. They've been bottled up for millenia, but for the last few centuries under Kazador have been winning so hard they they ran out of local greenskins and had to go looking for more, so, being optimistic, will come loaded for troll.

Otherwise, and perhaps anyway, Belegar might have to ask for a regiment with Trollhammer Torpedoes to be airlifted in from Zhufbar. He can probably justify the expense and risk given the situation in Karag Wyn. They're (lore-wise) murder on trolls, as the name suggests.

Gingganz said:

Unless you get confirmation from the QM, I rather doubt that we will tell the dwarves. If we vote to not mention the weakening of Mork , we won't mention the weakening of Mork.

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I hope that if we vote to mention the weakening of Mork Mathilde will only tell the people that she thinks might need to know this, which is the dwarves, as she knows that the humans can't do anything useful with the knowledge, with the possible exception of the White Wolf Grandmaster/High Priest.

SuperSonicSound said:

Well.. Ranald gaining another aspect as a patron for magic users would require that there be mass belief in such happening. So this event could act as the genesis of the seed of that change but it's trusting in a lot of things going right so whilst i've voted for it i'm not pushing it super hard.

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To be honest, I think Ulric himself ought to be informed about what happened to Mork, because it has potential implications on the greenskin menace that has plagued humanity even in the time Ulric walked the earth. It won't surprise me if Mathilde, because of her disdain of Sigmar, regards Ulric as the true head of the human pantheon.

Andmeuths said:

To be honest, I think Ulric himself ought to be informed about what happened to Mork, because it has potential implications on the greenskin menace that has plagued humanity even in the time Ulric walked the earth. It won't surprise me if Mathilde, because of her disdain of Sigmar, regards Ulric as the true head of the human pantheon.

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And fortunately, we happen to have a burgeoning friendship with the local high priest of Ulric.

The main reason I favor not mentioning the weakening of Mork is because merely the fact that we have reason to know or "suspect" something that enormously significant raises a lot of questions about why we know or suspect something like that. Questions that will be asked of us, and might lead to some more cunning dwarves and humans to suspect we're hiding something when we inevitably need to lie (or get very specific in our wording) to avoid mentioning Ranald's involvement. Limiting our story to just mentioning we destroyed the idol does not raise such questions or suspicion: "Idol destroyed, then Ork Shaman battle magic disrupted" stays a relatively local and straightforward event that won't prompt people to question it too deeply.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.

Ranald stays under wraps, IMO. The rest should be mentioned - I'm not sure what to make of it, but perhaps someone else will know something useful.

[X] Praise Panoramia. We didn't want her going into battle because exhaustion causes miscasts. She didn't go into battle until she saw orks about to descend on her comrades, and made the right judgement that the risk of miscast wasn't as bad as the risk of being overrun by orks. It was exactly the right reason and time to break orders, and in all honesty kept to the spirit of those orders.

I like this write-in, but I also like the leading vote and I anticipate an exchange along the lines of "How did you know?" "It's my business to know." [smugs in Grey Wizard]

[X] The Citadel should be destroyed before we can consider our position secure.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

Finally, the Citadel, so that the expedition will control an area rather than a line. Also because the orks are on the backfoot, Kragg has almost certainly boosted morale tremendously, and we should take advantage before the local enemies get organized.

Why does no one want to investigate Codein, to see if he is a mass murderer, a quick disguise as a adventurer would help, if he's sending men to their deaths, than he should be stopped.

Alratan said:

When the adventurers go home and tell people about the Battle before the Citadel no one's going to believe them. I wouldn't want to credit it all to Kragg's rune. For morale purposes the adventurers need to be showered with praise to encourage them to believe they can do this again next time if required. Men will die to live up to such a legend.

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I was referring to the zone of lava, lightning and general Fuck Greenskins going on.
The rune granting them what looks like Hatred(Greenskins) turbo charged because Kragg really freaking hates Greenskins, was frosting on the cake.

Martenzo said:

The main reason I favor not mentioning the weakening of Mork is because merely the fact that we have reason to know/guess something that enormously significant raises a lot of questions about why we know or suspect something like that. Questions that will be asked of us, and might lead to some more cunning dwarves and humans to suspect we're hiding something. Limiting our story to just mentioning we destroyed the idol does not raise such questions or suspicion: "Idol destroyed, then Ork Shaman battle magic disrupted" stays a relatively local and straightforward event that won't prompt people to question it too deeply.

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...we're a wizard and part of the job is to interpret magical rituals. We actually had a chance to know what was happening on the original infiltration but failed the Learning Check apparently.

Katahiraga said:

Why does no one want to investigate Codein, to see if he is a mass murderer, a quick disguise as a adventurer would help, if he's sending men to their deaths, than he should be stopped.

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Because he isn't. The casualty numbers are rather LIGHT for the kind of fighting they've been doing.

Alratan said:

If we're marketing it to the dwarves, we might want Mathilde to learn Khazlid first though.

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The Dwarfs are very protective of Khazalid. Especially written Khazalid. It might be quite a few favors to be given permission to learn it. Also, you know, learning a completely new language, which tends to not be easy or fast. Though I suppose the influence Khazalid had on Reikspiel might have an impact?

Katahiraga said:

Why does no one want to investigate Codein, to see if he is a mass murderer, a quick disguise as a adventurer would help, if he's sending men to their deaths, than he should be stopped.

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Because.. Meh. There is so much to do that checking to make sure that one of the primary generals isn't ruining the expedition seems wasteful. Besides given the performance his front line troops just gave I am more than willing to give him the benefit of doubt.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] Praise Panoramia. We didn't want her going into battle because exhaustion causes miscasts. She didn't go into battle until she saw orks about to descend on her comrades, and made the right judgement that the risk of miscast wasn't as bad as the risk of being overrun by orks. It was exactly the right reason and time to break orders, and in all honesty kept to the spirit of those orders.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

DragonParadox said:

That is pretty much the definition of lawful evil, acting in a treacherous manner by killing his own men (some of whom are undoubtedly innocent of what he suspects) in the interests of maintaining order.

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Actually no, that's still Lawful Neutral. going by D&D, Lawful is supporting rules/law/order, Evil is harming others for your own benefit, Lawful Evil is twisting/manipulating the rules to achieve your own goals or support yourself, and he's not doing that he's trying to cut down those who would fuck things up.

Katahiraga said:

Why does no one want to investigate Codein, to see if he is a mass murderer, a quick disguise as a adventurer would help, if he's sending men to their deaths, than he should be stopped.

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1) his reasons for doing so, if he has been doing so, make sense considering where we are and where he came from
2) As has been stated already, but holy shit did he come out of this with FAR fewer casualties than he should have taken realistically.