While I understand desire not to DD keep in mind that Attracting Amber only has base 50% chance of success so if we don't want a wasted action can DD for 70%.

We can afford the extra 500 so we should go for it.

Having Amber Wizards in Forest is another passive defense against beastmen/greenskins.
Getting more sophisticated logging facilities to keep back the forest's edge also would've been another passive defense against beastmen/greenskins. And taking that instead of goats would've provided us with an extra 500 gold spending money to potentially Double Down with.

But alas, we went for the more expensive goats and another open stewardship slot next turn. And whether we take option unlocks like agricultural survey/horses or continue our campaign against the trees(or a mix thereof, like logging and surveys to prepare the farming industry for future expansion/Horses and Charcoal to indulge our daughters in law as much as possible).

Besides, it's not the end of the world if the action is wasted. We can try again next turn. And 50% is still a decent chance of success.
 
Getting more sophisticated logging facilities to keep back the forest's edge also would've been another passive defense against beastmen/greenskins. And taking that instead of goats would've provided us with an extra 500 gold spending money to potentially Double Down with.

But alas, we went for the more expensive goats and another open stewardship slot next turn. And whether we take option unlocks like agricultural survey/horses or continue our campaign against the trees(or a mix thereof, like logging and surveys to prepare the farming industry for future expansion/Horses and Charcoal to indulge our daughters in law as much as possible).

Besides, it's not the end of the world if the action is wasted. We can try again next turn. And 50% is still a decent chance of success.
Do you remember if new income is added to income for the turn it finishes in or does that apply the following turn? As it is without the DD I think we are 600 to 800 in treasury but if the income increases apply this turn that is likely to be 500 higher.

Current Net Income: 12,184
Treasury: 3,689
Net: 15,873
Stipend: 2,600
Costs: 9,500 naval + 8,100 other actions = 17,600 - 2,600 = 15,000
After Turn: 873
Net Income next turn: 12,684 (assuming 500 increases, 200 is known from goats and we have three other actions boosting net income two of which should be at least 100 each)
For next turn: 13,557 + 1,000 Stipend (if income counts for turn it completes then this is 14,057 + 1,000 stipend)

I think I have the plan costs correctly.
 
People the last time we did an Amber related action we only passed it BECAUSE we doubled down! So please vote to double down this time.
 
If I remember right, we can only use 2000 of the navy stipend. WE have to pay for the port upgrades out of pocket. I could be wrong though.
 
Can we even afford anything else?
Yes.

[X] DD on Attracting Amber
Cost: 500. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Amber Wizards in the wild places of Ostland? Chance of Success: 50%

[] DD on Ogres Of The Wild
Cost: 500. Time: 3 Years. Reward: Cult of Taal and Rhya Further Entrenched Amongst Ogre Population. Ogres To Aid Cult/Work With Cult/Further Effects? Chance of Success: 75%

[] DD on Further Engineering Studies
Cost: 0. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Engineering Trait Advancement. Chance of Success: 50%


[] Do not DD
Cost: 0. Time: 1 year. Reward: No DD, no paying twice the worth of an action.

Further engineering costs nothing, double nothing is nothing. And would boost 50% to 70%.

Edit: QM ruled no DD on no cost actions.:(
 
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Do you remember if new income is added to income for the turn it finishes in or does that apply the following turn? As it is without the DD I think we are 600 to 800 in treasury but if the income increases apply this turn that is likely to be 500 higher.

Current Net Income: 12,184
Treasury: 3,689
Net: 15,873
Stipend: 2,600
Costs: 9,500 naval + 8,100 other actions = 17,600 - 2,600 = 15,000
After Turn: 873
Net Income next turn: 12,684 (assuming 500 increases, 200 is known from goats and we have three other actions boosting net income two of which should be at least 100 each)
For next turn: 13,557 + 1,000 Stipend (if income counts for turn it completes then this is 14,057 + 1,000 stipend)

I think I have the plan costs correctly.
Remember, Light Maintenance auto-deducts to replace losses. Though at 7 gold per 20 soldiers, this number will probably remain fairly low.

Anyway, with 1k in the Stipend, assuming 3 Military won't cost us more than 2.5k, 2 Diplomacy, doesn't go above 1.5k, 2 Stewardship is only 2k, 2 Research will take cheaper options for 2k, 2 Piety doesn't unlock a shiny 1k option(keeping the price at 2k as I'm hoping to get the Esmereldan Kitchen for the Middle Mountains), that the 2 Personal won't be more expensive than Hornfist + Bayonets(1.1k) and that an Intrigue action will unlock costing no more than 0.5k, going Wolf Ships would merely cost us a total of 12.600 + 1.000 Stipend gold, giving us some wiggle room to play with.

This is assuming the raids on Nordland and the turn 30 Raids don't have a cascade effect on our trade(same if Hochland's count becomes useless enough for Hochland's problems to spill over or if something kicks off that Kislevite Civil War), that Averland doesn't decide 4 turns of Ostlander deliveries is good enough(+1 research option, -1.500 gold/turn), that we restrict ourselves to the 1k research options and that a 500 gold option opens up for Military, Diplomacy and Intrigue(which we'd have to be willing to restrict ourselves to even if something more lucrative pops up).

It's entirely possible for example, that we simply get another 1k/1.5k option for the Military(+1.5k for Lining them Up, +0.5k for Mercenary Office). Or another 1k option for Diplomacy. Or that we might want to lock in a 1.5k project for research(which we'd probably want to DD on all things considered).
[X] DD on Further Engineering Studies
Cost: 0. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Engineering Trait Advancement. Chance of Success: 50%
Can we even DD on a free personal action?
 
Getting more sophisticated logging facilities to keep back the forest's edge also would've been another passive defense against beastmen/greenskins. And taking that instead of goats would've provided us with an extra 500 gold spending money to potentially Double Down with.
I feel like you are going to hold that over our heads for awhile simply because you disagree with the decision.:eyebrow:
Besides, it's not the end of the world if the action is wasted. We can try again next turn. And 50% is still a decent chance of success.
We have no idea if we can take it again if failed and 50% is not decent, it is literally a coin flip.
@torroar
Can we DD a free personal action like the Engineering one?
I don't think we should be able to since it costs nothing and would be silly for DD to work on that since quest wise it works because we are dumping more money into an action.
 
I don't think it makes sense that DD would work on the personal action. As for throwing money at the ogre thing, seems like a waste given it already has a decently high chance of success. Throwing money at amber is the most logical. So far this is where we are currently at:
Adhoc vote count started by Zrayz10 on Nov 2, 2018 at 11:09 PM, finished with 277 posts and 50 votes.

  • [X] Plan Massgamer
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Slope Farming Major
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Ortrud
    [X] Plan Massgamer W/ Freya as a name choice
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Slope Farming Major
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Freya
    [X] Plan Qeqre
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X]Logging Assistance
    -[X] Slope Farming Major
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Ortrud
    [X] Do not DD
    [X] DD on Attracting Amber
    [x] freya
    [X] Plan Yannoshka
    [X]Mercenary Office

    [X]Wolf Focus

    [X]Attracting Amber

    [X]Bloody Money

    [X]Logging Assistance

    [X]The Wonders of Goats

    [X]Slope Farming Major

    [X]Steam Boiler Improvements

    [X]Ogres Of The Wild

    [X]Into The Wolf Den - DD​
    [X]Work By Correspondence

    [X]Further Engineering Studies

    [X] Ortrud​
    [X] Plan Scraping by
    -[X]Line Them Up
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X]Logging Assistance
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X]The General Fist
    -[X]Whatever She Chooses
    [x] Don't DD
    [X] DD on Further Engineering Studies

Adhoc vote count started by Zrayz10 on Nov 2, 2018 at 11:10 PM, finished with 33 posts and 17 votes.
 
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