See, this debate over funds and money n'stuff is why the loan option was put in. You don't have to do it. It's just there as an option, is all.
Eh, if worst comes to worst, simply not taking an action should be doable. Like plan Scraping By which deliberately skips an Intrigue action.

Still, this is Ostland. Plenty of reason to push back the forest's edge beyond simple economy. Especially with all manner of horrible things once more inhabiting the deeper parts where we can't reach.
And going for a loan next turn wouldn't be the end of the world.
 
See, this debate over funds and money n'stuff is why the loan option was put in. You don't have to do it. It's just there as an option, is all.
We know and we are thankful for option, just that we want to avoid it if possible. While I'm sure we could cover whatever cult of Sigmar would want in return ideally we don't have to pay at all.
Goat Farming does not mention in its description that they help us settle the Middle Mountains.
Fair enough, I sorta thought it implied it in general since goats are being raised in mountainous areas where it's much harder to rise more traditional livestock in general.

I could switch out goats for logging if that is what you think is best and everyone else agrees. Personally think it makes more sense to do goats as soon as possible so we get most out of it sooner and do logging option next turn since while it does give a flat sum of gold an increase in logging income I don't think the income rise is more than goats at cap.

I could take out farming major I have it do logging instead.
 
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We know and we are thankful for option, just that we want to avoid it if possible. While I'm sure we could cover whatever cult of Sigmar would want in return ideally we don't have to pay at all.

Fair enough, I sorta thought it implied it in general since goats are being raised in mountainous areas where it's much harder to rise more traditional livestock in general.

I could switch out goats for logging if that is what you think is best and everyone else agrees. Personally think it makes more sense to do goats as soon as possible so we get most out of it sooner and do logging option next turn since while it does give a flat sum of gold an increase in logging income I don't think the income rise is more than goats at cap.

I could take out farming major I have it do logging instead.
Please don't switch. It really isn't a big deal. Just means we need to be careful for one more turn, and to really get the full benefit from goats we should take it as soon as possible anyway. The farming major is supposed to give us a golden windfall. The logging income is best switched for goats, but goats has benefits... Losing any of the other actions defeats the point of going full actions open from dwarf survey.

edit: Mass can't change the plan, cause some people copied the whole plan, not just the name. Tally would get weird. If plan to change, need new name.
 
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The thing I fund the simultaneously saddest and funniest is people (player?) obsession with action economy, even up to the detriment of, yanno, actual economy.
As I said before, just because there is an action slot open, does not mean it HAS to be used.
Choosing not to act is just as viable, if not more, than choosing substandard action plan just to use up all actions and remain within budget.
 
Fair enough, I sorta thought it implied it in general since goats are being raised in mountainous areas where it's much harder to rise more traditional livestock in general.

I could switch out goats for logging if that is what you think is best and everyone else agrees. Personally think it makes more sense to do goats as soon as possible so we get most out of it sooner and do logging option next turn since while it does give a flat sum of gold an increase in logging income I don't think the income rise is more than goats at cap.

I could take out farming major I have it do logging instead.
Taking out Farming Major would also be decent for the budget yeah. Still costs 500 extra and trades doubling up on settling the Middle Mountains for making Jegow more defensible but it protects us against the forests and allows irrigation to finish in conjunction with the slope farms instead of the slope farms finishing ahead of irrigation.

But:
Please don't switch. It really isn't a big deal. Just means we need to be careful for one more turn, and to really get the full benefit from goats we should take it as soon as possible anyway. The farming major is supposed to give us a golden windfall. The logging income is best switched for goats, but goats has benefits... Losing any of the other actions defeats the point of going full actions open from dwarf survey.

edit: Mass can't change the plan, cause some people copied the whole plan, not just the name. Tally would get weird. If plan to change, need new name.
Tally getting weird is a good point.
Probably won't win but:

[X] Plan Qeqre
-[X] Light Maintenance
-[X] Wolf Focus
-[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
-[X] Attracting Amber
-[X] Bloody Money
-[X] Logging Assistance
-[X] Slope Farming Major
-[X] Mountain Irrigation
-[X] Flying Fighters
-[X] Ogres Of The Wild
-[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
-[X] Work By Correspondence
-[X] Further Engineering Studies
-[X] Ortrud
 
You ended up needing to call a carpenter to repair the door to your bedroom after you kicked it open.
This is random but this is good indication of Sigmar's blessing on Freddy along with general strength to be able to kick a door down so hard you need to call a carpenter, also I assume since this is room to count's bedroom they are much sturdier than your average door.
Probably won't win but:
Even if doesn't win thinking about doing logging action next turn along with one of the three turn actions, assuming nothing else super important comes up.

Can't wait till we totally pay off soup tank since that means we get to save 3,500 gold a turn and start getting our huge stockpile back.
 
Even if doesn't win thinking about doing logging action next turn along with one of the three turn actions, assuming nothing else super important comes up.

Can't wait till we totally pay off soup tank since that means we get to save 3,500 gold a turn and start getting our huge stockpile back.
Something has already come up though:
Light Maintenance: A great many youths have been born and reached adulthood in Ostland. Many, are young men hungry for a fight. Or at least to get away from the farm or logging camps they were born into. Goodness knows you heard enough grousing of similar thoughts in your youth. But as time has gone on, and the malefic influence of Zacharias has steadily waned from the province, the forests have once more begun to come alive. This is good and bad, in potentially unequal measure. You cannot patrol the deepest paths, and with every Hexensnacht and Geheimnisnacht you know that new beastmen are mutated or horrifically spawned forth. Without Zacharias' undead servants and unceasing paranoia, greenskins are likely breeding as well. Your patrols are encountering them a bit more every year. Casualties are, compared to full wars and campaigns, light. With the work of the priests seconded to the armies, and simply dragging larger groups of injured back to Wulfenburg for healing, at least. As this continues, it would be better to be able to replace a few dozen men rather than having to wait for their casualties to increase to the hundreds. It would save time and attention at least. Cost: 100. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Yearly casualties from usual Empire issues i.e. greenskins+beastmen automatically filled. Won't have to spend actions to rebuild numbers if casualties occur. Costs will be automatically deducted, but due to being for piecemeal replacements will be significantly reduced.
The more logging we do and the faster we do it, the less room will be left for homegrown Beastmen and Greenskins. Which makes the job of the Army of the Forest(and the Amber Wizards/Taalites) easier.
 
Something has already come up though:

The more logging we do and the faster we do it, the less room will be left for homegrown Beastmen and Greenskins. Which makes the job of the Army of the Forest(and the Amber Wizards/Taalites) easier.
I highly doubt we will ever reach deep forests without generations of work, logging is mainly something to earn income and make more room around settlements so beastmen/greenskins are easier to spot coming out.

I don't disagree that logging is good but it isn't totally needed at moment since we already have army of forest spread out patrolling, better internal defenses, and the very action your quoting made to restore minor losses when they happen. It isn't super vital at this time an holding it for one turn won't ruin things.
 
I highly doubt we will ever reach deep forests without generations of work, logging is mainly something to earn income and make more room around settlements so beastmen/greenskins are easier to spot coming out.

I don't disagree that logging is good but it isn't totally needed at moment since we already have army of forest spread out patrolling, better internal defenses, and the very action your quoting made to restore minor losses when they happen. It isn't super vital at this time an holding it for one turn won't ruin things.
I never said it would ruin things though? And while I agree that it isn't super vital, the goats aren't super vital either. Or even regular vital. They are just something with a higher investment cost that will generate more money in the long run.

We don't need to access all of the deep woods, simply being able to patrol more of it lowers the safe capacity of safe breeding for Greenskins and Beastmen.
Yes, the very action I'm quoting automates the process of paying to replace losses(which are currently light) but the very action I'm quoting also notes that the number of Beastmen and Greenskins is growing(which would increase the per-year deductions due to growing forest raider pressure).

Given that turn 29 results noted that "tens of thousands of beastmen could potentially hide in the deeper portions of the forests – considering their breadth and size at least." every 1% of deep woods that we make accessible to those patrols you mentioned means the Forest of Shadows can sustain hundreds of Beastmen or Greenskins less.

Why not undermine a growing threat and save some money on the turn where we actually need to worry about money instead of trying to get more income that will only be relevant on a turn where we no longer need to worry about our income?
 
Why not undermine a growing threat and save some money on the turn where we actually need to worry about money instead of trying to get more income that will only be relevant on a turn where we no longer need to worry about our income?
Like I said, I will change vote if people ask me to since I was never against doing that. Reasoning isn't flawed just comes down to opinion in the end.
 
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@Qeqre one thing about the goat action is that it starts at +200 income and only increases from there. Browsing the recent discussion I have seen people stating only +100 for it.

Combined with no great offensive part 3 and we should be much better off funds wise next turn. I will put a proto plan for next turn together to get an idea on costs but with some income increases kicking in this turn we should be better off next turn.

Edit- next turn high end on actions I am getting 14.6k

Current net income is 12.2

Gains:.2 from goats .x from militia changes, .x from aligning trade routes, .x from sloop farming with the x being 1 or smaller as I don't see us getting more then +100 income from those based on previous turns. If anything swap out slope farming for logging for better income returns
Adhoc vote count started by Void Stalker on Nov 1, 2018 at 4:52 PM, finished with 208 posts and 38 votes.

  • [X] Plan Massgamer
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Slope Farming Major
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Ortrud
    [X] Plan Massgamer W/ Freya as a name choice
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Slope Farming Major
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Freya
    [X] Plan Qeqre
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X]Logging Assistance
    -[X] Slope Farming Major
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Ortrud
    [X] Plan: Jewel
    -[X] Freya
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Hard Drinking Markets
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X] Agricultural Survey
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    [x] freya
    [X] Plan Yannoshka
    [X]Mercenary Office

    [X]Wolf Focus

    [X]Attracting Amber

    [X]Bloody Money

    [X]Logging Assistance

    [X]The Wonders of Goats

    [X]Slope Farming Major

    [X]Steam Boiler Improvements

    [X]Ogres Of The Wild

    [X]Into The Wolf Den - DD​
    [X]Work By Correspondence

    [X]Further Engineering Studies

    [X] Ortrud​
    [X] Plan Scraping by
    -[X]Line Them Up
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X]Logging Assistance
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X]The General Fist
    -[X]Whatever She Chooses
 
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@Qeqre one thing about the goat action is that it starts at +200 income and only increases from there. Browsing the recent discussion I have seen people stating only +100 for it.

Combined with no great offensive part 3 and we should be much better off funds wise next turn. I will put a proto plan for next turn together to get an idea on costs but with some income increases kicking in this turn we should be better off next turn.
The Wonders of Goats: It isn't hard to buy goats, especially if you do it in bulk. They are, basically, one of the few pasture animals that dwarfs even bother with, but as with everything the dwarfs do in the long-term, they do it well. By purchasing a few herds of goats for yourself from the dawi, you will be receiving literally thousands of years of goat breeding for furs, milk, and meat, as the dawi prefer it. Which means high quality in all three aspects. It will cost a bit of coin, but it is coin that will be well worth it. It will not be hard at all to expand the herds to cover the valleys and mountains of the Middle Mountains that are under your control. Especially if your daughter-in-law is right, and you are not inclined to think that Sabine is lying to you about the gestation periods and maturity ages for the things. It will be a significant boost to your agricultural means, for certain, for the meats and milks, the cheeses that can be produced from that point, as well as the fur trade. A few years of breeding, and the rewards will be yours. Luckily, you have the Army of the Range which can protect them as they do this, far better than any goatherd might. Cost: 1,500. Time: 1 Year. Reward: +100 Agricultural Income Per Turn/+100 Trade Income Per Turn For First Year. As herds grow to reach carrying capacity over the next few years, income will rise again until hitting said cap.
Whether it starts at 100 or 200 doesn't change much though? Return on investment is still a few years down the line, when the Soup Tank payments have already stopped.

Also:
+100 Trade Income Per Turn For First Year. As herds grow to reach carrying capacity over the next few years, income will rise again until hitting said cap.
seems to indicate that the growth of +100 over the baseline 100 in the first year is the only income growth until the herds reach carrying capacity a few years down the line.
Current net income is 12.2

Gains:.2 from goats .x from militia changes, .x from aligning trade routes, .x from sloop farming with the x being 1 or smaller as I don't see us getting more then +100 income from those based on previous turns. If anything swap out slope farming for logging for better income returns
Slope Farming Minor: The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. The creation of a thousand farms begins with a lot of tilling and shifting of earth. But you have two things that many who would approach this topic don't – ogres, and Jade Wizards. The latter is a slight surprise to you, but perhaps it shouldn't be. They do a lot with the soil, why wouldn't they be able to do more than make crops and such? You've mostly used them for healing, but you know they are capable of combat and more significant things. More importantly, they will be of great help in ensuring that the tilling produces workable soil for slope farming. With many ogres, more than you have in the army in fact, you could tear apart the rocks and twist the soil as required for the proper work. Food in tiers along the slopes, crafted such that they are not easily vulnerable to storms or what have you, will not be easy. But you know the how, you have the how, now you need to pay for both. It will pay off in the long run. For now, start small, test cases, and prepare the way for further. Cost: 1,000. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Starter Slope Farms Begun, Foundation For Slope Farming Major Set. Agricultural Income Boost.

- The initial farms are a bit strange to look at, and it takes a braver heart than some might normally possess to willingly climb the steep staircases carved out – with rails, obviously – but the farms do work. Lots of potatoes and certain root vegetables, while interestingly enough a hardier variety of apples enjoy the climate. And damn it, if it works, it works! Driving forth and shaping earth for later farms, ensuring that they won't crumble under too much rainfall or other such issues – appreciations to the dwarfs for their knowledge in that regard, especially. With farms in the actual mountains themselves, it provides both incentive and security for those that settle in the Middle Mountains, a place to work and food to eat does a lot for the people. Reward: Starter Slope Farms Begun, Foundation For Slope Farming Major Set. Agricultural Income +100 Per Turn.
Slope Farming Major: You have set the foundation, and now all that remains is to build atop it. The soil has been tilled, the slope farms have been established as examples, and now all that you need to do is expand your works. Larger farms, paths to reach and to till them properly, the hardier vegetables and what not that can grow in such an environment. It will not be particularly cheap, but it will allow those mountains within your territory that have proved agricultural viable to become of further use to your people. You hear tales of how mountain air is good for the health, so maybe that might help as well. Plus, you simply can't deny that more food is never a bad thing. It shouldn't take you too long thanks to setting things up previously. With a greater abundance of food, settlements in the Middle Mountains will be better off as well. Cost: 1,000. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Large agricultural income boost. Greater ease for further settlement growth and production.
Large Agricultural income boost probably gives more income than a regular agricultural income boost. Maybe it's just another +100, maybe it's +200, who knows?

Logging + Goats gets us 0.2k income for turn 31 and costs 2.5k gold this turn, Logging+Slope Farms gets us 100+X income and costs 2k gold this turn.
Even if X = 0, Slopes+Logging is easier on the budget of next turn(turn 31) simply due to the goats option costing 500 extra. And it stops being as much of an issue once turn 32 rolls around due to us no longer needing to pay for the Soup Tank.

Also, Slope Farming Major makes it easier for the settlements in the Middle Mountains. Goats make no such claim.
 
[X] Plan Qeqre
Adhoc vote count started by EVA-Saiyajin on Nov 1, 2018 at 6:11 PM, finished with 211 posts and 40 votes.

  • [X] Plan Massgamer
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Slope Farming Major
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Ortrud
    [X] Plan Massgamer W/ Freya as a name choice
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Slope Farming Major
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Freya
    [X] Plan Qeqre
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X]Logging Assistance
    -[X] Slope Farming Major
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Ortrud
    [X] Plan: Jewel
    -[X] Freya
    -[X] Light Maintenance
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Hard Drinking Markets
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X] Agricultural Survey
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Feeling Out The Shadows
    -[X] Further Engineering Studies
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    [x] freya
    [X] Plan Yannoshka
    [X]Mercenary Office

    [X]Wolf Focus

    [X]Attracting Amber

    [X]Bloody Money

    [X]Logging Assistance

    [X]The Wonders of Goats

    [X]Slope Farming Major

    [X]Steam Boiler Improvements

    [X]Ogres Of The Wild

    [X]Into The Wolf Den - DD​
    [X]Work By Correspondence

    [X]Further Engineering Studies

    [X] Ortrud​
    [X] Plan Scraping by
    -[X]Line Them Up
    -[X] Wolf Focus
    -[X] The Greatest Offense, Part 3
    -[X] Attracting Amber
    -[X] Bloody Money
    -[X]Logging Assistance
    -[X] The Wonders of Goats
    -[X] Mountain Irrigation
    -[X] Flying Fighters
    -[X] Ogres Of The Wild
    -[X] Work By Correspondence
    -[X]The General Fist
    -[X]Whatever She Chooses
 
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