To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Katsuragi said:

Consensus that basically boiled down to a barely majority flip of the coin you mean? Lol.

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even more so than you think: We have one person who switched to non-intervention to break the tie and one Non-Intervention vote that was counted in error.

Enerael said:

I do remember you putting quite a fleet together that could be send to Chrystovian space, but not enough for the general war that would likely result in. Might have missed it though.

If a general war was likely, a TF would probably win I think.

Also please note the that I said what the consensus was, not that it is a fact.

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What consensus? The literally tied vote that had to be broken by begging for tie-breakers? Sorry, but there's no such thing either.

There was no real point to measuring the specifics beyond ship counting by map square ship availability, because once we go to the general war we have such a massive advantage that only the first 1.5 months matter at all.

The full Federation in a general war scenario has enough firepower to defeat the Cardassian Union Navy four times. Even if 60% of that is left home in garrison, left on defense like the STO wanted, or left holding the fort on task forces, we still hold a crushing advantage in naval force. That's before we add in the ISC and HoH forces.

Industrially, berths Starfleet can access alone give us almost a 200% advantage over the Cardassians in ship production.

If we call the Federation a Tier 1 power, the Cardassians are Tier 1.5 (and indeed the only other Tier 1 is the Harmony of Horizon). If we call the Cardassians Tier 1, the Federation is Tier 0. We have built that much of an advantage. The only way for the Cardassians to win is to force a collapse of political will. Militarily and industrially we trounce them.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

What consensus? The literally tied vote that had to be broken by begging for tie-breakers? Sorry, but there's no such thing either.

There was no real point to measuring the specifics beyond ship counting by map square ship availability, because once we go to the general war we have such a massive advantage that only the first 1.5 months matter at all.

The full Federation in a general war scenario has enough firepower to defeat the Cardassian Union Navy four times. Even if 60% of that is left home in garrison, left on defense like the STO wanted, or left holding the fort on task forces, we still hold a crushing advantage in naval force. That's before we add in the ISC and HoH forces.

Industrially, berths Starfleet can access alone give us almost a 200% advantage over the Cardassians in ship production.

If we call the Federation a Tier 1 power, the Cardassians are Tier 1.5 (and indeed the only other Tier 1 is the Harmony of Horizon). If we call the Cardassians Tier 1, the Federation is Tier 0. We have built that much of an advantage. The only way for the Cardassians to win is to force a collapse of political will. Militarily and industrially we trounce them.

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I do not disagree. This vote felt a lot like being asked to decide something that you are not remotely qualified to. I fully expect that there are people who have voted differently for exactly the same reasons even, from what I have seen of the discussion.

There has never been much doubt about winning the war I believe, it was more about the costs.

And perhaps I understand the word wrongly, but I think that even 51% is a consensus, if a poor one.

I was trying to lessen the sting of this vote for people who voted for, but probably shouldnt have tried.

Enough of this. I do not want to prolong these arguments. The die were cast, and If we have chosen poorly, all we can do now is to prepare to choose better next time.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

What consensus? The literally tied vote that had to be broken by begging for tie-breakers? Sorry, but there's no such thing either.

There was no real point to measuring the specifics beyond ship counting by map square ship availability, because once we go to the general war we have such a massive advantage that only the first 1.5 months matter at all.

The full Federation in a general war scenario has enough firepower to defeat the Cardassian Union Navy four times. Even if 60% of that is left home in garrison, left on defense like the STO wanted, or left holding the fort on task forces, we still hold a crushing advantage in naval force. That's before we add in the ISC and HoH forces.

Industrially, berths Starfleet can access alone give us almost a 200% advantage over the Cardassians in ship production.

If we call the Federation a Tier 1 power, the Cardassians are Tier 1.5 (and indeed the only other Tier 1 is the Harmony of Horizon). If we call the Cardassians Tier 1, the Federation is Tier 0. We have built that much of an advantage. The only way for the Cardassians to win is to force a collapse of political will. Militarily and industrially we trounce them.

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Here's the thing, the Federation wasn't committed. Half of our members were arguing against it. Not only that, our force projection is shit out where the Chrystovian are. Having a large ass fleet that can trounce the Cardassians means shit if they don't have the resources need to operate. Do you think we're happy that we're not committing to help them? Of course not! This was a fucking rigged vote. Commiting to intervention means that we're throwing away resources for a mission that might not even succeed, putting our members in jeopardy. Not intervening means our diplomatic relations is going to tank a lot. It also means we're not upholding what the Federation stands for. Both sides wanted to stop the Cardassians. It just that one side decided that the cost wasn't worth it, while the other side did.

Just my two cents.

Crafter of War said:

Here's the thing, the Federation wasn't committed. Half of our members were arguing against it. Not only that, our force projection is shit out where the Chrystovian are. Having a large ass fleet that can trounce the Cardassians means shit if they don't have the resources need to operate. Do you think we're happy that we're not committing to help them? Of course not! This was a fucking rigged vote. Commiting to intervention means that we're throwing away resources for a mission that might not even succeed, putting our members in jeopardy. Not intervening means our diplomatic relations is going to tank a lot. It also means we're not upholding what the Federation stands for. Both sides wanted to stop the Cardassians. It just that one side decided that the cost wasn't worth it, while the other side did.

Just my two cents.

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The members who indicated strongly against intervention represented 15 seats on the Council. The members strongly for represented 11. Both of those are out of 72. In what world is that half?

To get away from the dour war topic...

OneirosTheWriter said:

USS Hypatia, Kepler-class science frigate (Starfleet Build Order NCC-4102) @ San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth 1
USS Lyflam, Kepler-class science frigate (Starfleet Build Order NCC-4103) @ San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth 2
USS Sanvor, Kepler-class science frigate (Starfleet Build Order NCC-4104) @ Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards Berth 2
USS Aullare, Kepler-class science frigate (Starfleet Build Order NCC-4105) @ Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards Berth 3
USS Edrondu, Kepler-class science frigate (Starfleet Build Order NCC-4106) @ Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards Berth 4
USS Tolvamoc, Kepler-class science frigate (Starfleet Build Order NCC-4107) @ Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards Berth 5
USS Caerliss, Kepler-class science frigate (Starfleet Build Order NCC-4108) @ Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards Berth 6

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Isn't this beautiful? Not only is it the first wave of science ships launched in over a decade, it's the first production wave of our first custom design, beating the Amby first wave into service due to their long build times. There'll be more where these came from, many, many, many more.

Okay, here are the Mothball/Federalization plans. You'll see I include mothballing all four member Constitution-B ships right away... I trust nobody has any objections to that, even if it means we get only half the crew out of them?

Now in Plan A we mothball 12 constitutions, including our 4 Blooded Constitution-Bs and the Cheron. In return we Federalize 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, all 17 available Centaurs, and a Miranda-A.

In Plan B we mothball only the 3 non-Blooded Starfleet Constitution-Bs, the 4 member Constitution-Bs, and a member Oberth. In return we Federalize 1 Excelsiors, 1 Renaissance, and all 17 available Centaurs. So yes, keeping those five blooded ships and the Veteran Cheron costs us 1 Excelsior, 8 Renaissance, and a Miranda-A. By keeping 5 ships, we lose out on 10.

[ ][RETIRE] Briefvoice A – Mothball All 12 Connies
Mothball following ships:

• 1 Starfleet Constitution-A [Cheron (V)]
• 7 Starfleet Constitution-B [Exeter, Defiant (B), Valiant (B), Hood (B), Lexington, Saratoga, Korolev (B)]
• 4 Member Constitution-B Equality, Krinuk, Eridani, T'Plana Hath]

[ ][FED] Briefvoice A – 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A, 1 Miranda-A

• 2 Excelsior-A [Tellarite: Miracht Agrad; UE: Liberty]
• 9 Renaissance [UE: Saturn, Venus, Neptune; Tellarite: Pralim, Phinda, Mugat, Gokoch; Andorian: Thelasa-vei, Thejal]
• 13 Centaur-B [UE: Yorkshire, Oslo; Andorian: Charal, Vinakthen; Flabbjellah; Tellarite: Achlanacht, Thruq; Vulcan: Suurok; Betazoid: Harmony, Symphony, Wonderstruck, Starlight, Talaxana]
• 4 Centaur-A [UE: Nairobi; Andorian: Yravas, Sevaijen; Vulcan: Sh'Raan]
• 1 Miranda-A [UE: Calgary]

[ ][RETIRE] Briefvoice B – Mothball only 7 non-Veteran Connies and 1 Member Oberth
Mothball following ships:

• 3 Starfleet Constitution-B[Exeter, Lexington, Saratoga]
• 4 Member Constitution-B [Equality, Krinuk, Eridani, T'Plana Hath]
• 1 Member Oberth [Vulcan: Selek]

[ ][FED] Briefvoice B– 1 Excelsior, 1Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A

• 1 Excelsior-A [UE: Liberty]
• 1 Renaissance [UE: Saturn]
• [13 Centaur-B [UE: Yorkshire, Oslo; Andorian: Charal, Vinakthen; Flabbjellah; Tellarite: Achlanacht, Thruq; Vulcan: Suurok; Betazoid: Harmony, Symphony, Wonderstruck, Starlight, Talaxana]
• 4 Centaur-A [UE: Nairobi; Andorian: Yravas, Sevaijen; Vulcan: Sh'Raan]

[X][RETIRE] Briefvoice A – Mothball All 12 Connies

[X][FED] Briefvoice A – 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A, 1 Miranda-A


Now for Shipyard Federalization, what I'm doing is basically leaving each polity one 1mt berth and two 500kt/400kt berths for national expansion. Except UE which has a huge industry and seems to be producing multiple requiring 1mt berth ships all at once, so I just plain left them Cochrane.

[X][FY] Briefvoice 2324 Shipyard Federalization

• Luna 3.1 A (8pp)
• Luna 3.1 B (8pp)
• Luna 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Luna 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Green Hook Yards 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Green Hook Yards 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Green Hook Yards 1mt 3 (3pp)
• Rix Loxhanda 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Rix Loxhanda 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Chelok-An 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Chelok-An 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Hanath-Cho 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Hanath-Cho 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Solitude Orbital (500kt), for Auxiliary Construction Only (1pp)
• Xurch Melloch 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Xurch Melloch 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Xurch Melloch 3mt 1 (3pp)
• Grand Duk 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Grand Duk 1mt 2 (3pp)
• - NOTE: Starfleet will crew Constellation at Xurch Cheg even though yard not claimed this year.
• Andorian Orbital 3mt A (8pp)
• Andorian Orbital 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Andorian Orbital 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Andorian Orbital 1mt 3 (3pp)
• Hathlorn 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Hathlorn 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Total Cost = 88pp (75 free, costs 13)
• Assume we crew all ships in claimed berths

What Member Worlds Keep:

chen bonus: -1 Qtr (total) for parallel builds at shipyards without an HIP, 25% pp discount for anything built in STO space.

Note: All new builds benefit from "Arsenal of Liberty" technology that reduces construction times by 1qt. This will be calculated in and not otherwise noted.

[][BUILD] 2324 Plan A – 11 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

…..


[][BUILD] 2324 Plan B – 8 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships


[X][BUILD] 2324 Plan A – 11 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

Briefvoice said:

[][BUILD] 2324 Plan A – 11 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

Spoiler: Build Plan A

Sol System Berths (May utilize Heavy Industrial Park)

• SF Berth A (3mt) – Building Ambassador. (ETC 2327.Q3)
• SF Berth 1 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence Kepler using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• SF Berth 2 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence Kepler using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
  
  
• Luna Berth A (3.1mt) – Building Ambassador. (ETC 2326.Q4)
• Luna Berth B (3.1mt) – Building Excelsior-A. (ETC 2325.Q1)
• Luna Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Kepler (ETC 2325.Q2)
• Luna Berth 2 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence refit of Centaur-A (Lightning) to Centaur-B (ETC 2325.Q1)

• UP Berth A (3mt) – Building Ambassador using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• UP Berth B (3mt) – Building Ambassador using 'serial production' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q4)
• UP Berth C (3mt) – Building Ambassador using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• UP Berth D (3mt) – Building Ambassador using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• UP Berth E (3mt) – Building Ambassador using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• UP Berth F (3mt) – Building Ambassador using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
  
  
• UP Berth Z (2mt) – Building Starfleet Super-freighter. (ETC 2325.Q2
• UP Berth Y (2mt) – Building Starfleet Hospital Ship.(ETC 2325.Q2)
• UP Berth X (2mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence Kepler using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)

• UP Berth 1 (1mt) – Berth free 2324.Q2. In 2324.Q2 commence refit of Centaur-A (Nairobi) to Centaur-B. (ETC 2325.Q2)
• UP Berth 2 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence Kepler using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• UP Berth 3 (1mt)– In 2324.Q1 commence Kepler using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• UP Berth 4(1mt)– In 2324.Q1 commence Kepler using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• UP Berth 5(1mt)– In 2324.Q1 commence Kepler using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• UP Berth 6 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence Kepler using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)

Other Shipyards

• Green Hook 1 (1mt) – Building Hospital Ship (ETC 2325.Q2)
• Green Hook 2 (1mt) – In 2324.Q2 commence Kepler using Chen parallel build bonus. (ETC 2326.Q1)
• Green Hook 3 (1mt) – In 2324.Q2 commence Kepler using Chen parallel build bonus. (ETC 2326.Q1)

• Oreasa Starfleet Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Kepler (ETC 2325.Q1)
• Oreasa Starfleet Berth 2 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence refit of Centaur-A (Typhoon) to Centaur-B (ETC 2325.Q1).
  
  
• 40 Eridani Berth A (3mt) – Building formerly-Tellarite Ambassador (ETC 2326.Q3)
• 40 Eridani Berth B (3mt) – Building Ambassador. (ETC 2327.Q3)
• 40 Eridani Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Kepler (ETC 2325.Q1)
• 40 Eridani Berth 2 (1mt) – Building Kepler (ETC 2324.Q3)

• Chelok-An 1 (1mt) – Building Cargo ship (ETC 2325.Q1)
• Chelok-An 2 (1mt) – Building Kepler (ETC 2325.Q2)

• Hanath 1 (1mt) – Building freighter. (ETC 2326.Q1)
• Hanath 1 (1mt) – Building Hospital Ship. (ETC 2325.Q1)

• Ana Font Berth A (2.5mt) – Building Cargo Ship. (ETC 2323.Q4)
• Ana Font Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Engineering ship. (ETC 2325.Q1)
• Ana Font Berth 2 (1mt) – Building Kepler (ETC 2324.Q3); then leave empty.

• Xurch Melloch 1 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence Kepler. (ETC 2326.Q1)
• Xurch Melloch 2 (1mt) – Building freighter. (ETC 2326.Q1)
• Xurch Melloch 3 (1mt) – Building freighter. (ETC 2326.Q1)
  
  
• Grand Duk 1 (1mt) – Building Kepler. (ETC 2325.Q2)
• Grand Duk 2 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence refit of Centaur-A (LNairobi) to Centaur-B (ETC 2325.Q1)

• LOCF Berth A (2.5mt) – Leave empty.
• LOCF Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Engineering ship. (ETC 2325.Q1)

• Andor Orbital A (3mt) – Building Ambassador. (ETC 2326.Q4)
• Andor Orbital 1 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence Engineering ship using Chen's parallel build bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• Andor Orbital 2 (1mt) – In 2324.Q1 commence Engineering ship using Chen's parallel build bonus. (ETC 2325.Q3)
• Andor Orbital 3 (1mt) – Building Freighter. (ETC 2326.Q1)

• Hathlorn 1 (1mt) – Building Freighter. (ETC 2325.Q1)
• Hathlorn 2 (1mt) – Building Freighter. (ETC 2325.Q1)

• Intazzi Shipyard Berth A (3mt) – Building Ambassador. (ETC 2327.Q3)
• Intazzi Shipyard Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Kepler. (ETC 2325.Q2)
• Intazzi Shipyard Berth 2 (1mt) – Building Comet prototype. (ETC 2325.Q3)
  
  
• Lei-Hann Shipyard Berth Z (2mt) – Building Kepler. (ETC 2325.Q2)
• Lei-Hann Berth Y (2mt) – Building Kepler. (ETC 2325.Q2)

…..


[][BUILD] 2324 Plan B – 8 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

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Could you elaborate on the cost of that Kepler vs Centaur-B trade? I presume it's a future sacrifice, but of what?

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

Could you elaborate on the cost of that Kepler vs Centaur-B trade? I presume it's a future sacrifice, but of what?

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With the crew/resources savings of building 3 Centaurs instead of 3 Keplers, we'll probably be able to afford an extra Comet down the line.

But mostly I think it's about if you think we need more Centaurs or more Keplers a couple of years from now. In fact, I think I just changed my mind on which one I'll vote for. More Keplers!

pheonix89 said:

You know? From a meta level perspective this event is really annoying.

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Not going to lie, that whole event was a goddam clusterfuck.

I lay it entirely on the feet of the GMs. We, the playerbase, were given no indication that the GMs actually expected us Players/Starfleet to actually do anything about the invasion. The GMs likely knew for months that they expected us to do something but never told us.

This is an issue that should have been brought up during the 2323 Deployment Phase so we could have an informed discussion and actually budget ships to deal with the invasion.

If such a discussion actually did occur but on Discord instead of the actual main thread, I'll be fucking pissed!

chriswriter90 said:

Not going to lie, that whole event was a goddam clusterfuck.

I lay it entirely on the feet of the GMs. We, the playerbase, were given no indication that the GMs actually expected us Players/Starfleet to actually do anything about the invasion. The GMs likely knew for months that they expected us to do something but never told us.

This is an issue that should have been brought up during the 2323 Deployment Phase so we could have an informed discussion and actually budget ships to deal with the invasion.

If such a discussion actually did occur but on Discord instead of the actual main thread, I'll be fucking pissed!

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It was admittedly pretty surprising to learn that apparently Chrystovian independence is a major issue that multiple major powers on the opposite sides of the quadrant as well as the civilian population were invested in. Where was this support when the Cardassians launched a coup on Bajor or conquered the Khobeerians? I guess they're more "out of sight, out of mind" because public opinion is fickle?

[X][RETIRE] Briefvoice A – Mothball All 12 Connies

[X][FED] Briefvoice A – 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A, 1 Miranda-A

[X][FY] Briefvoice 2324 Shipyard Federalization

[X][BUILD] 2324 Plan A – 11 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

Glassware said:

It was admittedly pretty surprising to learn that apparently Chrystovian independence is a major issue that multiple major powers on the opposite sides of the quadrant as well as the civilian population were invested in. Where was this support when the Cardassians launched a coup on Bajor or conquered the Khobeerians? I guess they're more "out of sight, out of mind" because public opinion is fickle?

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We definitely hadn't met either the ISC or HoH when Bajor happened, and maybe not even Kohbeerians. Can't object to something you don't know is happening, can you?

chriswriter90 said:

Snip

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It definitely was not shown on Discord otherwise we would have warned you about it.

Nervos Belli said:

We definitely hadn't met either the ISC or HoH when Baker happened, and maybe not even Kohbeerians. Can't object to something you don't know is happening, can you?

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I mean they haven't stopped being under fascist rule and suffering. We still get regular horror stories out of the Bajoran diaspora. I guess they don't trip the ISC's "declare war on the fascists right now or we unfriend you" switch.

[X][RETIRE] Briefvoice A – Mothball All 12 Connies
[X][FED] Briefvoice A – 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A, 1 Miranda-A
[X][FY] Briefvoice 2324 Shipyard Federalization
[X][BUILD] 2324 Plan A – 11 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

not sure its best plan but sounds way better then anything i could think up.
will miss the veteran crew however oh well progress right

[X][RETIRE] Briefvoice A – Mothball All 12 Connies

[X][FED] Briefvoice A – 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A, 1 Miranda-A

[X][FY] Briefvoice 2324 Shipyard Federalization

[X][BUILD] 2324 Plan A – 11 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

In thinking about it... I'd honestly prefer to go for the three Centaur-Bs in order to get the savings for another Comet-class frigate rather than to go for another three Keplers.

[][RETIRE] Briefvoice A – Mothball All 12 Connies

[][FED] Briefvoice A – 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A, 1 Miranda-A

[][FY] Briefvoice 2324 Shipyard Federalization

[][BUILD] 2324 Plan B – 8 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

Briefvoice said:

Now for Shipyard Federalization, what I'm doing is basically leaving each polity one 1mt berth and two 500kt/400kt berths for national expansion. Except UE which has a huge industry and seems to be producing multiple requiring 1mt berth ships all at once, so I just plain left them Cochrane.

[X][FY] Briefvoice 2324 Shipyard Federalization

• Luna 3.1 A (8pp)
• Luna 3.1 B (8pp)
• Luna 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Luna 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Green Hook Yards 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Green Hook Yards 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Green Hook Yards 1mt 3 (3pp)
• Rix Loxhanda 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Rix Loxhanda 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Chelok-An 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Chelok-An 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Hanath-Cho 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Hanath-Cho 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Solitude Orbital (500kt), for Auxiliary Construction Only (1pp)
• Xurch Melloch 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Xurch Melloch 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Xurch Melloch 3mt 1 (3pp)
• Grand Duk 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Grand Duk 1mt 2 (3pp)
• - NOTE: Starfleet will crew Constellation at Xurch Cheg even though yard not claimed this year.
• Andorian Orbital 3mt A (8pp)
• Andorian Orbital 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Andorian Orbital 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Andorian Orbital 1mt 3 (3pp)
• Hathlorn 1mt 1 (3pp)
• Hathlorn 1mt 2 (3pp)
• Total Cost = 88pp (75 free, costs 13)

What Member Worlds Keep:

Spoiler: Member Worlds Retain

Leaves UE with:
Cochrane 2 x 1mt
New Seoul 1 x 500kt
Joburg 1 x 500kt

Leaves Betazed with:
Talak Zin 1mt
Rixx Loxhanda 2x400kt

Leaves Vulcan with:
Faran-Bel (1x1mt,1x500kt)
82 Eridani (500kt)

Leaves Tellar with
Xurch Cheg (1x1mt)
Cedrun Agrun Yard (500kt)
Sar Alpha Yard (500kt)

Leaves Andor with:
Ranford Orbital (1x1mt)
Thiak V (500kt)
Shrantet III (500kt)

chen bonus: -1 Qtr (total) for parallel builds at shipyards without an HIP, 25% pp discount for anything built in STO space.

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I actually want to propose an alternative:

[ ][FY] Federalize Everything

• Andorian Orbital (1x3mt, 3x1mt) =17pp
• Hathlorn (2x1mt) =6pp
• Ranford Orbital (1x1mt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1.5pp
• Thiak V (500kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1pp
• Shrantet III (500kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1pp
• Chelok-An (2x1mt) =6pp
• Faran-Bel (1x1mt,1x500kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =2.5pp
• Hanath-Cho (2x1mt) =6pp
• Solitude Orbital (500kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1pp
• 82 Eridani (500kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1pp
• Xurch Melloch (3x1mt) =9pp
• Grand Duk (2x1mt) =6pp
• Xurch Cheg (1x1mt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1.5pp
• Cedrun Agrun Yard (500kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1pp
• Sar Alpha Yard (500kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1pp
• Luna Orbital (2x3.1mt, 2x1mt) =22pp
• Cochrane Yards (2x1mt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =3pp
• Green Hook Fleet Yard (3x1mt) =9pp
• New Seoul (500kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1pp
• Joburg (500kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1pp
• Rixx Loxhanda (2x1mt) =6pp
• Rixx Loxhanda (2x400kt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1.5pp
• Talak Zin (1x1mt) for Auxiliary Construction Only =1.5pp

=106.5pp-75pp= 32pp (rounded)

Why? Because despite Briefvoice's work in trying to estimate it, we can't really call exactly what these polities need or will need in the future. We don't have any information other than what they tend to build thusfar.

Having all their production fall back to our auxiliary berths means we get the most efficient possible solution, because they steal the berths they need then we can build what we need with the excess. We don't have to do any tea-leaf reading, it all falls to auxiliary command, which is run by the GMs. Taking a 19pp hit for a bunch of dirt cheap aux yards and to eliminate the chance that a hot potato lands in our lap later is a good deal.




[X][RETIRE] Briefvoice A – Mothball All 12 Connies
[X][FED] Briefvoice A – 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A, 1 Miranda-A
[X][FY] Federalize Everything
[X][BUILD] 2324 Plan A – 11 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

Much prefer the Keplers. I like Keplers more than I like Comets, and I definitely like them better than Centaur-Bs.

What about the Oberths? Now that the Keps are out why keep them?

[X][RETIRE] Briefvoice A – Mothball All 12 Connies

[X][FED] Briefvoice A – 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A, 1 Miranda-A

[X][FY] Federalize Everything

[X][BUILD] 2324 Plan A – 11 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

Kolar said:

What about the Oberths? Now that the Keps are out why keep them?

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Click to shrink...

One more wave imo. We still have places we don't have Keplers and an Oberth is filling in.

Kolar said:

What about the Oberths? Now that the Keps are out why keep them?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

We don't really get much from decommissioning them. Low resources and we don't have a shortage of techs at the moment.

[X][RETIRE] Briefvoice A – Mothball All 12 Connies

[X][FED] Briefvoice A – 2 Excelsiors, 9 Renaissance, 13 Centaur-B, 4 Centaur-A, 1 Miranda-A

[X][FY] Briefvoice 2324 Shipyard Federalization

[X][BUILD] 2324 Plan A – 11 Kepler, 3 Centaur-B Refits, 2 Engineering Ships

I like this setup. It pulls in the most ships we can get and starts another major Kepler wave. By the end of this wave we should have enough for our 1 per sector/border zone plan with a few available for TFs.

Looking at the list we sure do have a lot of ships commissioning in 2325. 38 ships in all including our Ambassador wave.