Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
Because the Horror is an additional Green level minion on our side in the combat field.
Qi card are actually limited use item that allow us to cast the technique inside.
It cost a turn because the techniques themselve take a turn.
Secondly, as other have pointed out it didn't take a turn to activate by the barbarian.
[X] Stalking Horror, Hidden Senses and 20% less paranoia
[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
Qi cards take a standard action even if it's an instant or response technique. This is largely why we haven't made use of them because the mostly defensive techniques that aren't stymied by the lack of gear bonuses are instants, have secondary qi-pump effects, or were otherwise impossible to justify using a standard action to cast. Dumping 21 formation constructs from our storage ring and injecting qi into them so they assemble themselves isn't going to be an instantaneous process. Having them fly around us in anticipation is a great way to get them damaged and nerf the final result, so that's not an option.
The barbarian's scouts could assemble themselves independently without his direct involvement or even awareness, ours can't.
[X] An Eye to the future
[x] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[x] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
[x] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale
[x] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[x] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
[x] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale
You know...
[] Su Ling is back and seems on edge. Did she get her spirit?
This had me thinking that something was on Su Lings mind.
In fact, Ling Qi mentioned something to other su about Su ling seeming off kilter.
But we never did actually learn what was bothering her. I was under the impression that it was the top three votes?.
I mean, it was nice meeting her spirit, but I was kinda hoping for more.
[] Su Ling is back and seems on edge. Did she get her spirit?
This had me thinking that something was on Su Lings mind.
In fact, Ling Qi mentioned something to other su about Su ling seeming off kilter.
But we never did actually learn what was bothering her. I was under the impression that it was the top three votes?.
I mean, it was nice meeting her spirit, but I was kinda hoping for more.
[X] Stalking Horror, Hidden Senses and 20% less paranoia
[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
[X] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale
[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
[X] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale
@Black Noise , just so you're aware, we bound another spirit since the fight where we had 15 more qi than Meizhen, and upkeep is 18, so we now have 3 less qi available than her, not including the qi changes since then, if any. This is a bit more accurate comparison too, as she had two bound spirits of unknown upkeep, while we only had Zhengui.
...
Yes, we can't assume that our formation will do what it has shown to be able to do.
Of course.
They're different formations! The combo wasn't even our idea, who could draw direct inspiration from the field-use of the broader methodologies, it was Li Suyin who came up with the idea. We can't just assume they can do something that isn't supported in the text. Different designers will achieve different results, even if subtle ones. @yrsillar has been pretty clear that formations specialize quickly. But besides that, the shaman's formation constructs were powered by human heartsblood and souls and other gross bullshit, not spirit stones and supplemental qi injection.
Also, this is the very first level of the formation that we'll be achieving. Like, we don't even have it yet, the stats on the character page are just a preview of what we will get. There's no way of telling how much the shaman had put into developing his version, it could have been a 2nd or 3rd revision easily. Between the different power source and the possibility of it being a more refined formation, yes we can't assume ours can do everything his could.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
All Qi cards take a turn, even when it's an instant. The shaman crows also took a turn to gattai, as has been pointed out. That their turn was away from the shaman doesn't mean it didn't take a turn to gattai?
This just means the shaman grinded their memory, as we know his formations were much more developed than ours (his scouts were capable of combat even before Gattai, etc).
Green Level minion is a term to denote its strength is green level. It is not. At most it's a late yellow level minion with no flexibility and sustain. You could, I guess, say it's a green level summon as those should by default be weaker than yellow opponents, but...
Speaking of Qi cards, I am kind of tempting to make some of TRU and so on, if @yrsillar tells us what dots that technique has, and what is its duration.
Yes, of course we can't assume that it do what it did. Of course.
On other news, we shouldn't train FVM because the next level will remove all techs from it. After all we can't assume what it would do.
One turn of their time is not at all an issue tho.
- Location
- United States
[X] Stalking Horror, Hidden Senses and 20% less paranoia
[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
So, this is the last week we have before the tournament, the event that the story has been building towards for all of recent memory, and that everyone has been minmaxing towards for just as long. The event that will determine the shape of Ling Qi's immediate future. Yeah, I'm going to be voting for a plan that prepares for it as much as possible. Every small advantage we can get towards it is much more important than anything else we could be doing, imho. And I really don't see how anything else we could do would be better for that than the formation work (sorry ASA, I wanted you to win in the old vote vs. FSA, but your time has passed).
As for minors, I'll be one of those people who's sad at how we've drifted away from Han Jian. He was nothing but kind and helpful to us when he had obligation to be, and his help played a big part in getting to the position to receive our moon arts in the first place. I think a last meeting with him would be the best way to bookend our first year in the sect. And the Xiulan and Meizhen minors let us spend some time with our closest freinds, so they speak for themselves.
[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
So, this is the last week we have before the tournament, the event that the story has been building towards for all of recent memory, and that everyone has been minmaxing towards for just as long. The event that will determine the shape of Ling Qi's immediate future. Yeah, I'm going to be voting for a plan that prepares for it as much as possible. Every small advantage we can get towards it is much more important than anything else we could be doing, imho. And I really don't see how anything else we could do would be better for that than the formation work (sorry ASA, I wanted you to win in the old vote vs. FSA, but your time has passed).
As for minors, I'll be one of those people who's sad at how we've drifted away from Han Jian. He was nothing but kind and helpful to us when he had obligation to be, and his help played a big part in getting to the position to receive our moon arts in the first place. I think a last meeting with him would be the best way to bookend our first year in the sect. And the Xiulan and Meizhen minors let us spend some time with our closest freinds, so they speak for themselves.
Last edited:
Don't be a dick. I laid out a number of reasons why two similar but different formations cannot be assumed to function identically. You're free to argue, agree, or ignore me as you want, but this was a particularly lazy misrepresentation and dismissal of my position.
Happerry
Bat out of Hell
- Location
- Kanto
[X] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale
[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
You are arguing that somehow the formation is fundamentally different despite having nothing to support that point of view.
I am being dismissive because you wrapped "we don't know so it can be anything" in a pretty bow.
If you have evidence that it doesn't act like the other horror, please present it.
Here we see one portion of scouts attack, while another portion uses the same span of time to combine. Not definitive, but suggestive that they don't get to do it in no time at all.
Here we see that the creation of a Horror requires a cultivator to add qi at the time of formation. This was not the case with the shaman's constructs. An observed difference.
To form the Horror, we need to retrieve the Scouts from our storage ring and inject the qi; qi cards need to be retrieved from our storage ring and activated with qi (though none is expended) and it takes a standard action to do so. We can reasonably conclude the same is true of the Horror.
And the nail in the coffin, Li Suyin's Horror is not the same as the Shaman's Horror. They're different formations built on the same base. As Ling Qi has pointed out before, Suyin basically tore the formations apart and rebuilt them from the ground up to strip out the human sacrifice components.
So yeah. That last quote was significantly easier to find than I expected it to be, so I apologize for not sharing it earlier.
Last edited:
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
No we don't. Even in this worst case scenario where we're not allowed to assemble the Horror ahead of time (even though it has no stated time limit to keep us from doing so the day before, and there's no stated rules against bringing in constructed minions like the Li Silk Guards or Renshu's puppets), Ling Qi has already moved around with a Scout active in her pocket. We could just have the Scouts hidden on our person ready to assemble, no storage ring action required.
And once again if it take one of their action that's a non issue.
For the rest you assume that the barbarian didn't spend Qi to activate the voltron power.
Given that they weren't originally one big horror, it seem quite unlikely.
It's 21 scouts. I don't think we're going to be able to hide 21 scouts in our clothes. Certainly not while protecting them from harm while we fight, which is @Thor's Twin's last proposal so far as I'm aware, as he objects to round one deployment on pretty sound first strike grounds.
If his constructs were in remote communication with him and capable of receiving his qi from the basement(and he was indeed notified, readying himself for intruders as we crept into the room while still successfully hidden from his senses), then they were definitely, demonstrably more advanced than what we have and this whole argument is doubly moot.
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
21 mouse/sparrow sized skeletons. I wouldn't be surprised if Ling Qi could fit them all in just her sleeves.
And considering our dodge tank/stealth build, I'm pretty sure she can avoid them getting crushed for the ~2 rounds before assembly. Again, this is under the assumption that we even need to assemble them in combat in the first place, even though there's no stated restrictions that say so.
- Location
- United States of America
What? That wasn't my proposal at all. Your proposal was to use PLR and FVM first before the conflict began which would negate first strike.
My proposal would be to deploy and activate the scout before the conflict begins, in an out of combat situation. Because it can be assumed that when a battle begins, the conflict is not immediate. That there will be time before the conflict to find the opponent, gain terrain advantage and use distance to leverage advantages over the opponent.
We can use that time to deploy the Horror before the fight even begins. That was my proposal. Your counterpoint was that we could do other things like PLR and other... buffs? I disagreed because it would negate first strike.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We are already so optimized for group combat that we don't really need to think any further on it. We should have the first round in the bag. In fact we are so optimized for group combat that I sort of hope that we will meet the serious competition in the first round.