Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

NaanContributor · May 28, 2018

Arkeus said:
Why would we? I don't think we can go on the stage with our buff already up, so why would we be able to go on the stage with our formations already up? We probably can either have them fly to us during the fight and then assemble them or take them out of our ring and then assemble (or be assembled in the ring? unsure) but those scenarios also need us to use a full action in combat.

We have always seen formations take turns in combat, and I don't see why 'formation prep' is something we can ask a timeout for to the ref but not anything else.

Because unlike our techniques, which have durations that only last combat rounds (which translates to seconds or minutes at most) before needing to be recast, the Ossuary Scouts have a duration of two weeks. We can just have them assembled into the Horror and ready to go days before the tournament, let alone right before we're called up to fight.

Erebeal · May 28, 2018

[X] An Eye to the future

NaanContributor said:
And since neither of those are going to complete a stage and give any kind of improvement for the tournament, I don't really see the point in doing them right now? I mean, even if people think the Ossuary Horror isn't up to par against peers, it's still more than nothing at all. And aren't it's current stats from before yrsillar tweaked some of the dice pools (I remember the mechanics gurus talking about how good it was when it was introduced), so updating it might rebalance it into being viable?

I would argue he shouldn't. I mean, it's still decent for a late yellow combatant. We just happen to have left those levels behind. And why should it be able to keep up with us? We aren't a green level formations expert. We've largely been bludging off Suyin - who is yellow - and still haven't really even put that much effort in.

The Ossuary Horror is largely a way to throw money away.

Neshuakadal · May 28, 2018

I feel formations will be a great way to expand our land by quick and efficient scouting. I am hoping to use the puppet formations to automate many of the jobs we will have to do such as checking our lands for any cracks in the ward line.

backgroundnoise · May 28, 2018

So I have this really odd idea for a snippet, but I'm not quite sure about it. Would anyone mind checking it over for me and possibly helping me to improve it?

NaanContributor · May 28, 2018

Erebeal said:
I would argue he shouldn't.

If the issue is that it's underpowered because it's stats are from before a rebalance like some people said, then I don't see why not.

Erebeal said:
I mean, it's still decent for a late yellow combatant. We just happen to have left those levels behind.

Doesn't it's cultivation level and stats scale with the number of scouts until it hits our own level?

Erebeal said:
We aren't a green level formations expert. We've largely been bludging off Suyin - who is yellow - and still haven't really even put that much effort in.

The formation originally came from an ancient text we looted, Suyin adapted it but she didn't invent it. And I thought one of the main points about formations was that they're not as intrinsically tied to raw cultivation as much as the time and effort you put into studying them, which Suyin has done a lot of, both with us and without.

Erebeal said:
The Ossuary Horror is largely a way to throw money away.

Unless we're spending those 168 red stones on something else for the tournament, I'd rather have whatever advantage it can give us.

Terrastorm · May 28, 2018

[x] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[x] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
[x] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale

Killer_Whale · May 28, 2018

NaanContributor said:
Ossuary Scouts have a duration of two weeks.

Ossuary Scouts at the tournament have a duration of "until they get 2 shot by literally anything"

TehChron · May 28, 2018

[X] Stalking Horror, Hidden Senses

[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat

Erebeal · May 28, 2018

Neshuakadal said:
I feel formations will be a great way to expand our land by quick and efficient scouting. I am hoping to use the puppet formations to automate many of the jobs we will have to do such as checking our lands for any cracks in the ward line.

Honestly, as soon as Suyin isn't doing all the work for us and it isn't attached to her minor, it will go right back to where we always put formations in our priority list: i.e. not on it.

DeAnno · May 28, 2018

Arkeus said:
We have always seen formations take turns in combat, and I don't see why 'formation prep' is something we can ask a timeout for to the ref but not anything else.

Most buffs last a matter of rounds. The Horror doesn't have a separate duration listed from the Scouts, so there's no reason we couldn't assemble it on the previous day or week. There's no real precedent for day-long buffs in this system so we can't really know how it'll be adjudicated, but by your logic we should have to build the actual scouts inside the arena, people should have to make their own talismans inside the arena from scratch, etc etc. Clearly you're allowed to bring stuff in, even stuff you haven't personally made. I would argue the Horror is "stuff".

Killer_Whale · May 28, 2018

DeAnno said:
Most buffs last a matter of rounds. The Horror doesn't have a separate duration listed from the Scouts, so there's no reason we couldn't assemble it on the previous day or week. There's no real precedent for day-long buffs in this system so we can't really know how it'll be adjudicated, but by your logic we should have to build the actual scouts inside the arena, people should have to make their own talismans inside the arena from scratch, etc etc. Clearly you're allowed to bring stuff in, even stuff you haven't personally made. I would argue the Horror is "stuff".

Best case scenario: We have everything pre built & activated, stored in our ring, and bringing it out mid fight is a free action.
Worst case scenario: We have everything pre buit, stored in our ring, but bringing it out and activating it mid fight costs one or more combat rounds.

Best case it's a distraction for the opponents
Worst case it's a distraction for us.

TehChron · May 28, 2018

This talk of the Ossuary Horrors not being able to contribute in combat or potentially dragging us down is literally nonsensical fearmongering.

It's not even smart fearmongering, since the only real competitor it has for improving our odds in the Tournament is the plan advocating a push for ASA, which has several problems of its own.

We have spare actions, the arts and dice it adds to combat make it a relevant combatant against Green-level opponents that forces them to spend actions taking it out lest it exist as an extra set of TRF buffing for a few rounds, and if an opponent wastes actions on trying to take it out it gives us time to further dish out the death spiral without fear of consequences.

There is practically no scenario where having the Ossuary Horror out makes things more difficult for Ling Qi in a fight against a peer opponent. And Peer Opponents are the one thing we simply can not afford to risk losing to. It's Multi-attacker penalties would be the potential difference between allowing a margin of error for failure and not allowing one.

So let's push our odds for getting to the Inner Sect as close to 100% as humanly possible instead. We can afford, there isn't a good reason to not do it.

So let's just do it already and be done with it.

Neshuakadal · May 28, 2018

Erebeal said:
Honestly, as soon as Suyin isn't doing all the work for us and it isn't attached to her minor, it will go right back to where we always put formations in our priority list: i.e. not on it.

I strongly disagree with this idea. Formations should be something we work on constantly once we are in the inner sect. The automation possible with these puppets is great. Look at how Suyin was doing the work of several people at once.

Our time is valauble. Anything that let's us do more things with our time is valuable. Puppets let's us do more things with our time. Therefore the puppets are valuable.

If we could create a web of scouts in the land we will control a great deal of time is saved. They can scout for precious locations. They can track vaulable spirit groups for us. All of these things and more take time to do. But, if we have our scouts do them we save that time. Instead of physically going out there or finding some one to go out there we send a mental command.

Yes it will take resources and time now to get to the level where the automation really takes off. However, the inner sect is the perfect place to get that system set up. If we wait untill we are at our land then a lot of time gets wasted as we try to set a system up and do everything else we will need to do.

The inner sect does not have a tourney at the end, or at least not one we care about overly much, so there is no pressure on our time that way.

NaanContributor · May 28, 2018

Killer_Whale said:
Best case scenario: We have everything pre built & activated, stored in our ring, and bringing it out mid fight is a free action.
Worst case scenario: We have everything pre buit, stored in our ring, but bringing it out and activating it mid fight costs one or more combat rounds.

Best case it's a distraction for the opponents
Worst case it's a distraction for us.

Or, you know, we don't bother to have it in the ring at all and it's just out and ready to fight alongside us when we step up for the match.

Arkeus · May 28, 2018

NaanContributor said:
Because unlike our techniques, which have durations that only last combat rounds (which translates to seconds or minutes at most) before needing to be recast, the Ossuary Scouts have a duration of two weeks. We can just have them assembled into the Horror and ready to go days before the tournament, let alone right before we're called up to fight.

DeAnno said:
Most buffs last a matter of rounds. The Horror doesn't have a separate duration listed from the Scouts, so there's no reason we couldn't assemble it on the previous day or week. There's no real precedent for day-long buffs in this system so we can't really know how it'll be adjudicated, but by your logic we should have to build the actual scouts inside the arena, people should have to make their own talismans inside the arena from scratch, etc etc. Clearly you're allowed to bring stuff in, even stuff you haven't personally made. I would argue the Horror is "stuff".

A lot of buffs can be used for a long, long time. Ling Qi could have Crescent Grace/Rumbling Squall/ Ten Ring Defences/ for ten minutes before the tournament without any significant loss to her combat potential. Yet, I don't think pre-buffing is something we'll be allowed to do.

Not only that, but Horror is "when you activate it it Gattai", it's not "Gattai form is the normal form". Even in the best case scenario where the horror stays around us for a week, I don't think we can assume we can have the horror going up on the arena with us from the start, so we would need to take it out of our ring (if it can even go there), or call it up from outside the arena.

Most likely, we'll need to actually use the 10Qi to assemble it within the Arena, costing us a full turn:

Ossuary Horror: ooo (Unlearned 6/9)
Combat
Cost: Requires multiple ossuary scouts, see below. 10 Qi

The tiny scouts created by the Ossuary Scout Formation are but a small part of the whole, when the time for observation has passed, they can be gathered to fight on their masters behalf. The construct created by the activation of this formation has a cultivation level equivalent to the number of scouts used to create it divided by three. Eg. A Horror created from 15 scouts would have a cultivation level of 5. The constructs cultivation level cannot exceed it's creators.

The horror has a movement of 21 and an initiative of 15. It's base combat statistics are as follows.

Offensive Clashes: 15 dice, plus 3 for every cultivation level above 4
Defensive Clashes: 12 dice, plus 3 for every cultivation level above 4
Armor 2 Durability 5(increases to 3 and 8 at cultivation 7)
DV 4 Armor Piercing 2
Health 4+1 for every cultivation level above 4

No more than one horror may be commanded at a time, on creation, the horror may be assigned one arm based and one spine or leg based technique from the users roster, each of which it may use up to three times. Techniques must be two dots or below.

It is a combat formation that has a Qi cost, after all.

veekie · May 28, 2018

[] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale

We've not really had many scenes with Heizui, and after we go to Inner Sect, we won't have many more either, unless we work out a reason for his mother to let us continue to interact.
Plus, Zhengui needs his prideful rival!

[] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.

Meizhen's position is secure, the only thing in question is whether she takes the crown. It would be a calming action I think, so its best taken as a relaxation action rather than furthering her social link.

[] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town

Xiulan is probably NOT going to appreciate this, to a significant part because of how close her qualifications for Inner Sect is likely to be. She wants to Closed Door(and probably HAS been doing Closed Door for the past few weeks), dragging her out might help her relax, but if she fails...well she'd have us to blame, however irrational.

[] You need to unwind, take a morning and spend it on the slopes with Zhengui and Hanyi, a little childish fun can be nice from time to time

Pure relaxation action. We can meet them both even after Inner Sect. It'd be cute.

[] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat

We won't see him for a long time after this, because he's not going to be in the Inner Sect. He's a great guy, and I think he deserves a little better than simply being left behind and forgotten as we move on, considering how much help he provided us with no expectations of return.

[] Cai Renxiang might have given you leave to see to other interests this week, but you don't need too. Meet the heiress for tea and politics.

Project Humanize Cai.
Not very popular, but if we want to get her to be more human rather than Justice Bot we'd have to make illogical sacrifices to throw her off enough to realign differently. Keeping in mind she's not that far away from locking in her identity after all.
We need to do things that she can't predict, for her. Social interaction is not an equation to be solved!

[X] Stalking Horror, Hidden Senses
[X] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
[X] Cai Renxiang might have given you leave to see to other interests this week, but you don't need too. Meet the heiress for tea and politics.

TehChron · May 28, 2018

Arkeus said:
Most likely, we'll need to actually use the 10Qi to assemble it within the Arena, costing us a full turn:

And the full turn it costs us can pay for itself by re-applying TRF at no cost every couple of turns, thus refreshing it for us while also further harrying any minions an opponent creates, or helping Zhengui against an opponents Spirit Beast in the event that they have one that Zhengui isn't fully capable of taking out on his own.

Everything costs Qi and an action. It's part of the investment for powerful effects, and by any measurement, an Ossuary Horror that is relevant at Third Realm is a very powerful effect.

Karnax626 · May 28, 2018

[X] Stalking Horror, Hidden Senses
[X] Stalking Horror, Hidden Senses and 20% less paranoia

[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat

archangis · May 28, 2018

Arkeus said:
A lot of buffs can be used for a long, long time. Ling Qi could have Crescent Grace/Rumbling Squall/ Ten Ring Defences/ for ten minutes before the tournament without any significant loss to her combat potential. Yet, I don't think pre-buffing is something we'll be allowed to do.

Not only that, but Horror is "when you activate it it Gattai", it's not "Gattai form is the normal form". Even in the best case scenario where the horror stays around us for a week, I don't think we can assume we can have the horror going up on the arena with us from the start, so we would need to take it out of our ring (if it can even go there), or call it up from outside the arena.

Most likely, we'll need to actually use the 10Qi to assemble it within the Arena, costing us a full turn:

It is a combat formation that has a Qi cost, after all.

Ah, yes I too remember that the voltron thingy cost a turn for the barbarian.

Or maybe not because he was busy throwing a curse.

The Meddler · May 28, 2018

[x] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[x] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
[x] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale

[X] Stalking Horror, Hidden Senses

Seventeen · May 28, 2018

[X] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale
I'd like to get the Han Jian action, too, but Xiulan and Meizhen are already locked in at this point, so it's really only worth voting for what I want as third.

[X] An Eye to the future
[X] Time for ASA
Not really interested in pulling out the skeleton monsters in front of a bunch of the high nobility. Ling Qi's got enough of a villain reputation already with her thieving, sabotage, and being part of the oppressive government. Don't need to add to it with necromancy. Leave that for Li Suyin's villain theme.

Nevill · May 28, 2018

[x] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale
[x] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[x] You need to unwind, take a morning and spend it on the slopes with Zhengui and Hanyi, a little childish fun can be nice from time to time

Asael · May 28, 2018

I may have to consider tactical voting at this point.

[X] Stalking Horror, Hidden Senses

[X] It's been nearly a year since you first met Meizhen, set aside an evening to spend with her as your closest friend.
[X] Gu Xiulan has done all she could to prepare herself and train, coax her out of the training field for one more night on the town
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat

Kian · May 28, 2018

yrsillar said:
The two of them headed the opposite direction, circling around, as the crows let out a croaking caw and attacked, a great cloud of bones and black feathers descended on the illusions, even as many of the crows hung back, clustering together and blurring, their forms shifting to combine into a single much larger puppet that loomed over the apparent battlefield.

While the crow's screamed and circled, fighting an enemy that was not there, she saw the strain on Su Ling's face increasing. Luckily the distance they had to cross was no great distance for cultivators like them, even slowing down to avoid being spotted.

Here is a likely instant where the horror transformation was used and lq and sl were not even in direct combat. it looks very much like the horror can be assembled and used without the need for direct combat. direct combat is here defined as actually fighting against an enemy. in the scenario above lq and sl were spotted by a scout which then combined to fight them. sl is distracting the horror with her fox illusion. the actual barbarian shaman is a few hundred meters away. this means that the horror could be combined from a distance and in a scenario that did not follow the usual action,instant action, response action scheme.

the big benefit of having the horror dissassembled is that the individual scout can be used to, well, scout or guard. If we decide that we dont need the scouting capability there doesnt seem to be a reason to not have the horror already assembled.

However, id really like it if @yrsillar could make a judgement on this situation because it seems to be a hot topic and speculation on the nature of game mechanics and eventual rules lawyering are not productive and only increase the salt level. so @yrsillar plz halp.

OneArmedYeti · May 28, 2018

Plan vote will follow after work when I have time to read and process them all, but in the meantime.

[X] Heizui has, for all his ill temper, been a decent host. Thank him for the time you've spent in the Vale
[X] Han Jian might not be your closest friend, but he was still one of your first, even if you've drifted apart. See if he has some free time to chat
[X] Cai Renxiang might have given you leave to see to other interests this week, but you don't need too. Meet the heiress for tea and politics.

Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.

Getting Too Old For This...

Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.

Sometimes words have two meanings

Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.

Crazy cat guy