Well, okay, to be fair, Ashtarr will help us in any situation where a +2 on the die roll would tip us over into a greater category of success. But we've never had any specific indication that the successes scale as opposed to just being "crittable," so that's still a relatively limited fraction of the time.

[sigh]

Look, I get that he's good and I want him on-side, it's just that we're already spending 40pp to activate a ton of ships in a year we KNOW is going to be PP-poor. I think maybe this isn't the time for him.
 
Honestly, to me, this looks like exactly kind of situation where the Council should cough up some Core 4 ships for free, or give us a discount on Task Force ships during Snakepit, or something. Why would it cost so much political capital for the Starfleet to get some C4 ships to prevent a war between affiliates, when we are going to get all their ships for free in an year anyway? The mechanisms for such transfer are all there, after all.
 
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Honestly, to me, this looks like exactly kind of situation where the Council should cough up some Core 4 ships for free, or give us a discount on Task Force ships during Snakepit, or something. Why would it cost so much political capital for the Starfleet to get some C4 ships to prevent a war between affiliates, when we are going to get all their ships for free in an year anyway? The mechanisms for such transfer are all there, after all.
Alternatively, the bureaucratic mechanisms for the transfers aren't there, or are still under construction for this year, and Starfleet ships are stretched thin or in high demand everywhere throughout our space. The number of favors we have to call in is limited, a great deal of political capital has been expended getting the Core Four to approve the total signing-over of their planetary fleets to us at all. And the Council is heavily influenced by parties that are at best ambivalent about the merits of having lots of Starfleet ships poking around outside Federation borders doing things like 'affiliate the Gorn' or 'defend this mining colony we just founded Because Otherwise The Enemy Would Get It.'

All in all, I'm not surprised that the Council doesn't just throw open the vaults and give us everything they have at a time like this, especially since none of these crises is independently, in its own right, a real threat to the Federation itself. They're threats to the Federation's prospects for expansion and the stability of its frontiers, but that's not the same thing.

Everyone totally agrees more ships should be available, they just wonder why you're taking their ship instead of their neighbour's ship.
Also this.
 
Everyone totally agrees more ships should be available, they just wonder why you're taking their ship instead of their neighbour's ship.
Mm, because you are giving us your ships in an year anyway? That's one reason.
Alternatively, the bureaucratic mechanisms for the transfers aren't there, or are still under construction for this year, and Starfleet ships are stretched thin or in high demand everywhere throughout our space. The number of favors we have to call in is limited, a great deal of political capital has been expended getting the Core Four to approve the total signing-over of their planetary fleets to us at all. And the Council is heavily influenced by parties that are at best ambivalent about the merits of having lots of Starfleet ships poking around outside Federation borders doing things like 'affiliate the Gorn' or 'defend this mining colony we just founded Because Otherwise The Enemy Would Get It.'

All in all, I'm not surprised that the Council doesn't just throw open the vaults and give us everything they have at a time like this, especially since none of these crises is independently, in its own right, a real threat to the Federation itself. They're threats to the Federation's prospects for expansion and the stability of its frontiers, but that's not the same thing.

Also this.
Well, there are mechanisms for the usual transfer for TF usage, since I assume it's not done by Shey calling whoever's in command of the member fleet and saying "You're okay with giving us one of your ships to play with, right? I cleared it with the Pres and Council, they're okay with it". And surely Council in general and Pacifists coalition specifically agree that preventing an actual war, especially between our affiliates, is very important? Then why wouldn't it be easier for us to get some of the Core 4 ships using those usual channels, especially if they agreed in general that they are going to be joining with the Starfleet anyway?

Like, I am not asking the Council to somehow complete Federalization right now, or give us half of all member fleets ships. Just, some of the Core 4 ships that we are going to get soon anyway, so they are useful now, through the usual Task Force channels. Even just a discount on calling those ships during Snakepit would be nice. We can easily give them a stipulation that we are going to use those ships only for the war crisis, not for the Gorn diplomacy or colony scouting.
 
Hm...it's a shame we can't pull Nash off the Academy posting to lead one of the corewards task forces, since we know her old flame Penelya Miran was involved in the confirmation that the OSA were backing the pirates.

...unless Nash goes AWOL and abandons her post based on a tip off from an old friend to go solve mysteries together.
 
Hopefully after this year we can get at least a decade before everything explodes all at once again, because by the mid-2330s we should have the first tranche of new generalist cruisers coming out of the yards and be in a much better position with regard to ships.
 
(thinks)

If you really want to scrape for ships, I could get maybe three more for Unity.

I could move the Intrepid (Miranda-A) from Tellar sector (leaving Tellar with two good ships as garrison) then move it to Ferasa sector to be the third ship there, and move the Defiant (blooded Constitution-B) to Unity.
I could not send the Tarrak to the HBZ and instead send it to Unity.
I could leave Forward at 8 ships and move the Amarki Centaur-B to Unity.
 
Hopefully after this year we can get at least a decade before everything explodes all at once again, because by the mid-2330s we should have the first tranche of new generalist cruisers coming out of the yards and be in a much better position with regard to ships.
Don't kid yourself. With the way things have been going I wouldn't be supposed if we were in the middle of a war with the Cardassians or some other cataclysmic disaster.

The GM's seem to take a special delight in throwing us into the deep end at every turn.

That being said, I think our current woes stem more from our rapid expansion than anything else. Maybe after the current crisis passes it's time to focus more on expanding our capacity and infrastructure in the Federations new territory. Might be nice not to be on the brink of war for once.

Might mean we lose out on some of the current disputed territory, but we will probably be thankful for the rest and development later. Could also give us more time to work on our established relationships with the major and minor powers.
 
So apparently I missed this in the update:

-The Sarqel Treaty Organization has organized a force consisting of the Audacious-class cruiser SFS Serene and the Constrictor-class cruisers SFS Constrictor and SFS Coral to support these efforts; the frigates QSS Arquila Leb Hoiathi and QSS Alboa Bal have been withdrawn to cover

Okay, so Forward is down two frigates. Fun.
 
Now would be a really nice time to have Honiani ships available. Just saying. Maybe the entire coreward frontier being on the verge of going up in flames will finally convince the President to let the Honiani ratify and become full members instead of stalling it until after her coalition is voted out?
 
So apparently I missed this in the update:



Okay, so Forward is down two frigates. Fun.
Just for the thread, I already pointed this out in Discord: those frigates are C4 P1 D2 in a combat/diplomacy task force. We can use Miranda-As to replace them, C3 P1 D2 is not a big change, and if we get a blooded Miri it's an improvement, if we don't we can get a third Miranda-A so that there's an improvement overall. If there's one thing we can spare it's Mirandas. Again, it's not like we're replacing P4 Centaurs here.
 
Now would be a really nice time to have Honiani ships available. Just saying. Maybe the entire coreward frontier being on the verge of going up in flames will finally convince the President to let the Honiani ratify and become full members instead of stalling it until after her coalition is voted out?
Yeah, this current President hasn't really been that helpful to us. I know she's trying to avoid conflicts with other powers, but at this point that mentality has become a hinderance.

The Honiani have been good friends to the federation and I feel like her attempt to block them ratifying is a slap in the face. Not to mention the fact that they have a number of ally races including the Yan Ros.
 
Mm, because you are giving us your ships in an year anyway? That's one reason.
Yeah. I suspect some of the Core Four fleets are frantically running around trying to get every task they want their ships to do done, while they still have executive control over the ships.

Well, there are mechanisms for the usual transfer for TF usage, since I assume it's not done by Shey calling whoever's in command of the member fleet and saying "You're okay with giving us one of your ships to play with, right? I cleared it with the Pres and Council, they're okay with it". And surely Council in general and Pacifists coalition specifically agree that preventing an actual war, especially between our affiliates, is very important? Then why wouldn't it be easier for us to get some of the Core 4 ships using those usual channels, especially if they agreed in general that they are going to be joining with the Starfleet anyway?
I mean, it's certainly doable, but it's doable through the usual channels and we have to pay for it. Remember that the PP budget isn't a 'dollars and cents' budget, it's a metric of informal favors done and Starfleet's prestige. If Starfleet is saying "we can't handle this, we need you to send even more of our ships right now to help us," then by extension that diminishes our prestige and the number of other favors we can call in regarding other areas. So we end up having to pay PP, because everything the Council does for us costs us PP. Every time we have to approach the Council hat in hand and say "could you do this for us," we're spending PP.

(thinks)

If you really want to scrape for ships, I could get maybe three more for Unity.

I could move the Intrepid (Miranda-A) from Tellar sector (leaving Tellar with two good ships as garrison) then move it to Ferasa sector to be the third ship there, and move the Defiant (blooded Constitution-B) to Unity.
I could not send the Tarrak to the HBZ and instead send it to Unity.
I could leave Forward at 8 ships and move the Amarki Centaur-B to Unity.
Given that, as you point out later, TF Forward is already going to be losing two ships, it would probably be better NOT to pull that one.

But I agree on sending the Tarrak. Tempted to agree on sending Defiant, though heaven help us if something goes wrong in Tellar Sector AGAIN.

Could we maybe pull the Sommerfield from Vulcan Sector? That sector seems to stay relatively quiet, and doesn't have a History of feeling abandoned by Starfleet.

Could we maybe shave one ship off the Gorn task force? Just one? We can heavily reinforce them later when we get federalization. Then again, the more ships they have, the better the chance they have of making substantial progress before the Cardassians arrive in force.

Now would be a really nice time to have Honiani ships available. Just saying. Maybe the entire coreward frontier being on the verge of going up in flames will finally convince the President to let the Honiani ratify and become full members instead of stalling it until after her coalition is voted out?
Thaat would be nice.

Yeah, this current President hasn't really been that helpful to us. I know she's trying to avoid conflicts with other powers, but at this point that mentality has become a hinderance.
I think honestly, we're partly running into problems caused by Jime Okaar and her faction of the Pacifists kiiiind of thinking we're sort of kinda invincible.

Like, we've successfully handled so many crises in a row in a satifsactory and relatively low-cost manner by just about any metric that it's hard for them to believe that we're really truly having trouble keeping up with everything.

Alternatively/also, she might reasonably argue that it's OUR job to help HER, not the other way around. :p
 
Okay, so I replaced the missing frigates in Forward with three Miranda-As.

GOOD NEWS, though. I had bought a third Little Queenship/2 Stinger combination and then forgot to put it in Unity. New Unity:

[] [TASK] Task Force: Unity (Stop coreward war.)
-Mission: Mission: Resolve [Corps are Lying to Us 0/100] tag on OSA, [On the Brink of War N/A] tags on OSA, Licori and Laio.
-Commander: Rear Admiral Michel Thuir - Reroll first event failure each quarter
-Attachments:
  • Free FDS Diplomatic Team attachment. Effect: Reroll first failed Diplomatic Roll each quarter;
  • Ambassador Sarek: 5 pp per year. Effect: Reroll the first failed diplomatic roll each quarter; add +1 to the reroll. - 5pp [PEACE]
  • Ambassador Nikael Dalera: 8 pp on purchase, 5 pp per year. Effect: Double progress on the first passed Diplomatic event each quarter. = 8pp [PEACE]
2323.Q1 Ships:
Explorers: 3 or 4 Starfleet Excelsior-As: [Rru'adorr (B), Pleezirra (B), Lakota] + Opportunity if it is out of the EC
Cruisers: 1 Orion Nelhiar Savings & Loan Enforcer Cruisers [Nelhiar's Honor], 1 Little Queenship
Frigates: 1 Vulcan Centaur-B, 4 Betazoid Centaur-B, 1 Caldonian Centaur-B, 1 Andorian Centaur-B, 1 Starfleet Centaur-B [Zephyr (B)], 3 Molhane Patrol Escorts, 2 Stingers (in Q2 add 1 Centaur-A [Gale (B))
Notes: 18 (or 19) Ships, then +1 in Q2.

That's 20 ships by Q2!
 
Tally Time.
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 15, 2018 at 1:34 AM, finished with 198 posts and 15 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 15, 2018 at 3:37 AM, finished with 210 posts and 18 votes.
 
Now would be a really nice time to have Honiani ships available. Just saying. Maybe the entire coreward frontier being on the verge of going up in flames will finally convince the President to let the Honiani ratify and become full members instead of stalling it until after her coalition is voted out?
Yeah, this current President hasn't really been that helpful to us. I know she's trying to avoid conflicts with other powers, but at this point that mentality has become a hinderance.

The Honiani have been good friends to the federation and I feel like her attempt to block them ratifying is a slap in the face. Not to mention the fact that they have a number of ally races including the Yan Ros.

It's easy to say that but where are we going to find the ships to Garrison their space and put out all the fires!?

We kind of need Federalization to kick off so we can garrison their space.

Edit: This must be how the ISC feels like...
 
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@Briefvoice , there's a pretty wide groundswell for the Scrutineers, to the point where I suspect most people would be content to pay the 5pp for them even if we don't cut anything else for them.
 
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