What happens if the Klingons do jump the Romulans and reignite the war while there are Romulan vessels in our repair docks and Federation cargo ships and freighters carrying supplies around Romulan space?
If anything, it's a soft deterrent against such an action, which is exactly the kind of deterrent we want. After all, we really don't want the K-R war to reignite, and the current Klingon government is against that also, so we want to put just enough pressure on them to keep that stance.
A hard deterrent on the other hand could place too much pressure and restrict Klingon actions too overtly.
Neat. If that ain't just the CoGM joking around I would bet small amounts of money on the Breen being Andorians captured in their pre-warp says to serve as slave soldiers for the Romulans. After all, they are the guys with the obsessive raptor theme.
What happens if the Klingons do jump the Romulans and reignite the war while there are Romulan vessels in our repair docks and Federation cargo ships and freighters carrying supplies around Romulan space?
Hence why, when we get to vote on Klingon outreach, part of what we're paying them for is not to do that.
Having said that, it's probably possible to arrange our shipping routes so that we're not toting explicitly military cargos on the same side of the RSE as their border with the Klingons.
And what SWB said while I was typing this post as well.
What happens if the Klingons do jump the Romulans and reignite the war while there are Romulan vessels in our repair docks and Federation cargo ships and freighters carrying supplies around Romulan space?
Then the Klingons will probably shoot at our freighters in Romulan space, breaking the Khitomer Accords and causing us to go to war with them. Which is good, because we don't want anyone conquering the Romulans, but especially not another Great Power.
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
[X][PREZ] Aggressive Diplomatic Response to isolate Breen
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
Because this is important and I think he has a better analysis of the situation and grasp of the long-term consequences, but I'm not in the right state of mind right now to follow the discussion much further so I'm going to stick with his conclusions.
If anything, it's a soft deterrent against such an action, which is exactly the kind of deterrent we want. After all, we really don't want the K-R war to reignite, and the current Klingon government is against that also, so we want to put just enough pressure on them to keep that stance.
Then the Klingons will probably shoot at our freighters in Romulan space, breaking the Khitomer Accords and causing us to go to war with them. Which is good, because we don't want anyone conquering the Romulans, but especially not another Great Power.
Since fucking when? We spent years sitting out that war, ready to accept the outcome whatever it was. What changed in the past year that meant the Klingons winning would now be so unacceptable you'd rather go to war over it? Did you not notice how we professed careful neutrality over either result?
Since fucking when? We spent years sitting out that war, ready to accept the outcome whatever it was. What changed in the past year that meant the Klingons winning would now be so unacceptable you'd rather go to war over it? Did you not notice how we professed careful neutrality over either result?
The Romulans established a new government and are in the process of drafting a constitution we actually like. I now care about protecting that improbable and rare state of being more than I do the Klingons, where any reform the current Chancellor manages to implement will almost certainly be cast aside by whoever kills him.
In the longer term, I suspect any real positive relationship with the Klingons requires there be someone for us to fight together. In the original timeline, it was the Romulans-but with warmer Romulan relations this is no longer desirable. With Klingon culture revolving as it does upon war and causing harm to other species and themselves, I ultimately favor the Romulans over them if at all possible.
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
[X][PREZ] Conciliatory Diplomatic Response to Breen
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
Since fucking when? We spent years sitting out that war, ready to accept the outcome whatever it was. What changed in the past year that meant the Klingons winning would now be so unacceptable you'd rather go to war over it? Did you not notice how we professed careful neutrality over either result?
That was when the war was so even that even if one of the two won they'd never be able to actually conquer and hold the place. Which is what happened, the Klingons won but they only got some territory and their fleet was mauled.
The Klingons grabbing the lion's share of Romulan territory would be a Disaster, leaving us with another un-distracted Great Power on our borders. The Ashalla Pact is bad enough when they get aggressive, a Super Klingon Empire pushing in our direction at the same time would have made our position untenable.
The Breen would honestly make bad neighbors but nowhere near as bad, we'd just go back to the pre-Biophage days of big time paranoia and lean heavily on the Khitomer Accords and our friendship with the Klingons.
[X][PREZ] Industrial Support/Lend-Lease Response
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
The only downside I can see with the 1st option is the Klingon response to us helping re-build the Romulans so one big thing I want out of the Alliance Building option is a chance to offer the same deal to the Klingons.
If the Romulans order a dozen cargo ships then the Klingons can order a dozen. If we offer aid packages to the Romulan civilians then we can offer them to the Klingon civilians. And all of this is even more valuable to the Klingons given they just acquired a lot of new territory and colonies which were fought over and destroyed and therefore have more to rebuild.
I also really doubt that either of them would have us build or repair any of their warships given the levels of pride/paranoia both species have. Even if they can then focus more on building up both of their militaries, us helping their civilians is something very in line with the Federation Ideals.
The only downside I can see with the 1st option is the Klingon response to us helping re-build the Romulans so one big thing I want out of the Alliance Building option is a chance to offer the same deal to the Klingons.
[X][PREZ] Industrial Support/Lend-Lease Response
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
I'm not sure the Breen will respond to diplomatic attempts, and I see no reason to be concilatory towards the people who attacked one of our ships with a war fleet.
Giving industrial and intelligence aid to the Romulans while diplomancing allies, which would hopefully include the Klingons, seems like the best bet. And if the Breen don't like it - well too bad, you tried to blow up one of our ships because you wanted to invade another nation.
The Romulans established a new government and are in the process of drafting a constitution we actually like. I now care about protecting that improbable and rare state of being more than I do the Klingons, where any reform the current Chancellor manages to implement will almost certainly be cast aside by whoever kills him.
I'd argue that the Klingon Empire reforms are likely to stick more. Giving their subject species political and economic power isn't the easiest thing to reverse. At least, not without the sort of fight that could very well cripple their empire and give the Romulans an opening.
[X][PREZ] Industrial Support/Lend-Lease Response
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
[X][PREZ] Industrial Support/Lend-Lease Response
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
I live in the United States; I'm practically obligated to support Lend-Lease programs whenever possible as a means of securing economic and diplomatic influence.
I suspect the Sydraxians are over Thuir by now. They must have, on some level, accepted our story that we're innocent of the desecration of their sacred grove, and if Thuir wasn't guilty of that, they have no reason to hate him.
But yes, I think Thuir would be a good choice. The task force definitely rates a rear admiral given its sheer size.
Honestly, I'd happily do both- give Vol Chad a squadron specifically tasked with allying the OSA, under the overall command of someone like Thuir with more time in flag rank.
[X][EC] Vice Admiral T'Lorel
[X][ACAD] Rear Admiral Nash ka'Sharren, Chief of Staff, Explorer Corps
[X][PERS] Rear Admiral Gorac Crogan
Nash ka'Sharren: +10% EC O/E/T recruitment, all new ships gain experience faster in their first year of operations
T'Lorel: +1 bonus to successive events involving the same polity, phenomenon, or opponent
Gorac Crogan: +1 DC to enemy sabotage attempts, +3 to Cardassian research
I strongly agree with this. We have nine choices to pick from but the only completely clear and unambitious choices are:
[ ][PREZ] Industrial Support/Lend-Lease Response
[ ][PREZ] Direct Action Response against Breen assets
[ ][PREZ] Push for Federation Early Mobilisation
The others all have room for interpretation and that is assuming these mean exactly what they say and there aren't hidden secondary implications, like Early Mobilisation meaning we shift to a State of Emergency since that's the only time we've ever had a chance to influence/effect that.
It's really annoying to be once again choosing from a list of one line items with vague names. Would two or three sentences describing each choice really hurt that much? Especially for something that is explicitly supposed to be one of the most important decisions Shey will ever make?
One line items are acceptable for unimportant stuff not major potentially game shifting choices like this.
I mean, even if the QM's wrote even one or two sentences describing each choice, we'd still pour over the options, overanalyse every word and still find a way to misinterpret them. Then we'd blame them for not making the descriptions clearer.
"Why? I like Romulans. Their new empress is one of the greats; their latest marshal is such a droll, resourceful man. Quite admirable. Had our own race no pressing problems of its own, and a warfleet like what we used to have, I would seriously consider offering to detach an expeditionary force to lend them aid here and now."
If "offer something to the Klingons" does not appear, I'm going to feel deeply frustrated, because it's borderline absurd that there wouldn't be at least some pressure/desire/interest in the semi-post-scarcity Federation to try exactly this.
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
[X][PREZ] Aggressive Diplomatic Response to isolate Breen
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
[X][PREZ] Aggressive Diplomatic Response to isolate Breen
If they do it anyway then we deploy forces. We should be interested in stopping the Klingons from continuing the war. This is literally something we had people working on in the months before the armistice.
However, I think that a reversal of Klingon policy with our soft deterrence is vanishingly unlikely.
Since fucking when? We spent years sitting out that war, ready to accept the outcome whatever it was. What changed in the past year that meant the Klingons winning would now be so unacceptable you'd rather go to war over it? Did you not notice how we professed careful neutrality over either result?
We were secretly preparing an intervention and the armistice stopped us from needing those plans. Remember that? Total collapse of a great power is a scenario where we would intervene, which implies it's a scenario we don't want. Our intervention against the Breen, if limited, is predicated on exactly the same thing.
I think Qute is going to go chasing Thuir. Probably.
[X][PREZ] Industrial Support/Lend-Lease Response
[X][PREZ] Recon & Intel Support
[X][PREZ] Alliance-Building Diplomacy Response to gain more participants in response
