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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Summarized tally

Mirrorcatch Box: Leave it behind 52, bring it along 1.
Liber Mortis: Bring it along 47, leave it behind 7.
Shyish swords: Donate to amethysts 33, leave them stored 20, return to barrow 3.
Plans: Race between Private Sector Preparation 22, Ready For Battle 21, Finaly Getting IT DONE 18. (Next is Merged 7)
 
[X] Plan Ready For Battle

[X] Belegar Ironhammer has sent word that any that wish to seek their fortune are welcome to join him in retaking Karak Eight Peaks. While it is far from the civilized lands of the Empire, the treasure, the glory, and the adventure will be all the greater.
 
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Zaratustra said:
Also why didn't you vote for the swords I seen to have missed that ?
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Basically, the value of researching the swords relative to the time we would need to spend on it has decreased since we got them. Before they were our sole unique path of magical development, and we needed at least one so we could achieve the rank of Magister. However that need was satisfied by the creation of our Matrix, and now we also have the 'snake oil' and fog of war spells competing for our time to research as well. Our snake in the box is a literal one of a kind artifact and the fog of war spells have greater potential overall compared to the swords. Since we can't keep the swords around indefinitely and studying them would take up several valuable actions the best value seems to be to trade them for favors.

Zaratustra said:
Please Don't be like that, you are ignoring half the reason plan voting existis and doing you votes a greate disservice.
People vote for plans because mostly don't have time to wathc everything that hapens in the threath so they trusted you to push certain actions, and since situations change plans do all the time, people make an announements so those that are can at and that is it.
Yes you can't be sure no one would care about the gong farmers but I dare say based on the arguments for then and the way the thread is going we can be at least 90% sure of that, do you realy think you would be doing your ultmost to fullfill the trust your voterase put on you if instead of making sure everyone of them get everthing important you know they care about you make sure they get none of that whatsoever because of 0,10 doubt that one of them may care that much about gong farmers ?
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To me, plan voting exists to prevent a 'designed by committee effect' when a course of action is being selected. I don't believe I actually have a 'voter base', just a bunch of people happen to agree with what I believe to be the best course of action for various reasons.

In the future, when creating a plan I will clarify what actions I deem to be 'vital and non-negotiable' and those that are subject to change as the discussion is held. I will also ask voters for any major plan I create to indicate if they are open to negotiation or not and if they want to be notified via @ of any changes to vital actions, negotiable actions, or not at all. It is inconvenient, but that is the best way I see of allowing flexibility while preventing someone from voting for one thing at ten and voting for something significantly different at Tea without having changed their minds.
 
Exmorri said:
Shyish swords: Donate to amethysts 33, leave them stored 20, return to barrow 3.
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This one it something I honestly don't understand.

After so many years of keeping swords to reverse-engineer the enchantment... we are just giving them up. And for measly 2 points of favour.

Why so many wants to give up the opportunity after all the time we held on it?
 
As far as plans go, this seems rather silly overall. Why research the thing we're giving away this turn rather than the thing we're keeping and have years of juice stockplied for?
 
racnor said:
As far as plans go, this seems rather silly overall. Why research the thing we're giving away this turn rather than the thing we're keeping and have years of juice stockplied for?
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If you reread that question you notice it anwsers itself, the people most invested want to get the action done before it siapears, the people who don't care are willing to give it up, simple as that.
 
Zaratustra said:
If you reread that question you notice it anwsers itself, the people most invested want to get the action done before it siapears, the people who don't care are willing to give it up, simple as that.
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As Plan Ready For Battle now includes the shyish-kebabs, please approval vote as you previously offered. The vote is almost closed and quite close, so every vote matters.
 
DarkLight140 said:
As Plan Ready For Battle now includes the shyish-kebabs, please approval vote as you previously offered. The vote is almost closed and quite close, so every vote matters.
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On the one hand, the shyish-kebabs was the primary reason for my initial pick of vote.

On the other hand, you've got an overworked training action in there.

I'm, quite simply, never going to vote for a plan that sticks in overwork training actions.
 
Zaratustra said:
Please Don't be like that, you are ignoring half the reason plan voting existis and doing you votes a greate disservice.
People vote for plans because mostly don't have time to wathc everything that hapens in the threath so they trusted you to push certain actions, and since situations change plans do all the time, people make an announements so those that are can at and that is it.
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For the record: If one wishes to delegate decisionmaking, there's namevoting probably more suited than planvoting. [*] Username to just copy what someone else votes for, even if they change their vote.
 
Voting closed. Plan Ready for Battle has managed a last-minute win.
Adhoc vote count started by BoneyM on Mar 25, 2018 at 11:00 AM, finished with 12684 posts and 97 votes.
  • [X] Leave it behind; have Heideck come in and replace the containers as they fill.
    ... and 11 more.
    [X] Bring it with you, safely locked within the enchanted box Abelhelm kept it in.
    ... and 7 more.
    [X] Belegar Ironhammer has sent word that any that wish to seek their fortune are welcome to join him in retaking Karak Eight Peaks. While it is far from the civilized lands of the Empire, the treasure, the glory, and the adventure will be all the greater.
    ... and 3 more.
    [X] Zhufbar regularly sends salvaging parties into Karak Varn and mining parties into the tunnels below. It will be close enough to Stirland to keep in touch, and you have a good reputation in Zhufbar especially.
    [X] Donate them to the Amethyst Order (+2 College Favours)
    [X] Plan Ready For Battle
    -[x] Seek and hire a steward to manage and improve the fief in your absence. (100+50 gold to pay them for the projected duration of your absence, free action)
    -[X] Build a bailey for your subjects to shelter in and to encompass other structures. (100+50 gc for wood, free action)
    -[X] Improve the road between the Estate and Sonningwiese. (50+25 gc, free action)
    -[X] Purchase a loom, erect a building for it, and invite weavers to start calling your estate home. (100+50 gc, free action)
    -[X] Set up a dairy and recruit skilled cheesemakers from among the locals to work in it. (100+50 gc, free action)
    -[x] Internalized Lessons: If you've been using a particular trait a fair bit in the last year, you can spend some time on it to internalize what you've learned and increase the trait (choose which trait; can be taken multiple times; will be more effective the more you've used the trait lately).
    --[x] Learning
    --[x] Piety (Overwork)
    -[X] Your experience with the so-called Fog of War has given you a lot of ideas for new applications of Ulgu. Investigate them to see what might be possible.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[x] Spells of Grey Magic (teachers' choice; multiple spells)
    -[x] Sell the produced niter crystals to Zhufbar.
    -[x] Shyish-kebabs: The Shyish swords are hideously dangerous as weapons, but fascinating as a subject of study. Try to reverse-engineer the lost enchantments woven into them.
    -[x] Commission a magical healing item from the Colleges (-favours, specific spell deferred to a later vote, free action)
    -[X] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say auf wiedersehen. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [X] Plan Private Sector Preparation
    -[x] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Sell the produced niter crystals as fertiliser in Stirland.
    -[x]Formalize and organize the payments people make for the Gong Farmers to perform their service.
    -[x]Survey the Haunted Hills for sites rich in Ulgu for the EIC to buy on your behalf if the land goes on the market.
    -[x]Seek and hire a steward to manage and improve the fief in your absence.
    -[x] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say au revoir. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [X] Leave them stored in your spare room.
    [X] Plan Finaly Getting IT DONE
    -[x] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    -[x] Shyish-kebabs: The Shyish swords are hideously dangerous as weapons, but fascinating as a subject of study. Try to reverse-engineer the lost enchantments woven into them.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Sell the produced niter crystals as fertiliser in Stirland.
    -[x]Survey the Haunted Hills for sites rich in Ulgu for the EIC to buy on your behalf if the land goes on the market.
    -[x]Seek and hire a steward to manage and improve the fief in your absence.
    -[x] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say au revoir. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [x] Plan Merged
    -[x] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Your experience with the so-called Fog of War has given you a lot of ideas for new applications of Ulgu. Investigate them to see what might be possible.
    -[x] Spells of Grey Magic
    -[x] Sell the produced niter crystals to Zhufbar.
    -[x]Survey the Haunted Hills for sites rich in Ulgu for the EIC to buy on your behalf if the land goes on the market.
    -[x] Seek and hire a steward to manage and improve the fief in your absence. (100+50 gold to pay them for the projected duration of your absence, free action)
    -[X] Build a bailey for your subjects to shelter in and to encompass other structures. (100+50 gc for wood)
    -[X] Improve the road between the Estate and Sonningwiese. (50+25 gc)
    -[X] Purchase a loom, erect a building for it, and invite weavers to start calling your estate home. (100+50 gc)
    -[X] Set up a dairy and recruit skilled cheesemakers from among the locals to work in it. (100+50 gc)
    -[x] Relatively Simple enchantment (two favours, Earth Blood, free action)
    -[x] Moderately Complicated enchantment (three favours, Second Portent of Amul, free action)
    -[x] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say au revoir. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [X] Leave it safely in your Sunken Palace.
    [X] Plan Foundation For a Future
    -[X][Personal] Seek and hire a steward to manage and improve the fief in your absence. (100 gold to pay them for the projected duration of your absence)
    --[X] Leave standing instructions for them to prioritize the safety and wellbeing of the fief over profit, as long as they don't outright make a loss.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X][Personal] Use your reputation to build trade ties with Zhufbar.
    -[X][Personal] Expand the EIC into Sonningwiese; this is unlikely to increase profits, but would indirectly improve the lot of your subjects.
    -[X][Personal] Sell the produced niter crystals as fertiliser in Stirland.
    -[X][Personal] The Allies of Man
    -[X][Social] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say au revoir. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [X] Plan Finaly Getting IT DONE Qhaysh EDITION
    -[x] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[x] Shyish-kebabs: The Shyish swords are hideously dangerous as weapons, but fascinating as a subject of study. Try to reverse-engineer the lost enchantments woven into them.
    -[X] Sell the produced niter crystals as fertiliser in Stirland.
    -[x]Survey the Haunted Hills for sites rich in Ulgu for the EIC to buy on your behalf if the land goes on the market.
    -[x]Seek and hire a steward to manage and improve the fief in your absence.
    -[x] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say au revoir. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [X] Plan Tying up loose ends
    -[X] Build a relation with the local community leader so that either he or someone else from the community can perform the duties of a steward. (cannot be outsourced)
    -[x] [Gong Farmers] Fold them into the EIC; no need for you to have personal control of them. (no action needed)
    -[X] [Niter Factory] Fold it into the EIC. (no action needed)
    -[X][Personal] Use your reputation to build trade ties with Zhufbar.
    -[X] [Personal] Expand the EIC into Sonningwiese; this is unlikely to increase profits, but would indirectly improve the lot of your subjects. (Overwork)
    -[X] [Personal] Have the EIC print and sell a second edition of Asarnil's memoirs. (Overwork)
    -[X] [Personal] Survey the Haunted Hills for sites rich in Ulgu for the EIC to buy on your behalf if the land goes on the market.
    -[X][Personal] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Getting To Know You: Spend time with someone, offering your help in their tasks and generally getting a feel for them (choose one) (can be taken multiple times).
    --[X] Regimand (Our old Master)
    -[X][Social] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say au revoir. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [X] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    [x] Return them to the barrow you originally got them from.
    [X] Plan Affairs in Order
    -[x] Zhufbar regularly sends salvaging parties into Karak Varn and mining parties into the tunnels below. It will be close enough to Stirland to keep in touch, and you have a good reputation in Zhufbar especially.
    -[x] Donate them to the Amethyst Order (+2 College Favours)
    --[x] keep 2 for study
    --[x] Leave them stored in your spare room.
    -[x] Leave it behind; have Heideck come in and replace the containers as they fill.
    [x] Plan Merged
    -[x] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Your experience with the so-called Fog of War has given you a lot of ideas for new applications of Ulgu. Investigate them to see what might be possible.
    -[x] Spells of Grey Magic
    -[x] Get a magical healing item from the Colleges (-Favors)
    -[x] Sell the produced niter crystals to Zhufbar.
    -[x]Survey the Haunted Hills for sites rich in Ulgu for the EIC to buy on your behalf if the land goes on the market.
    -[x] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say au revoir. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [x] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say auf wiedersehen. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [x] Have dwarves do a surface survey of the Haunted Hills in anticipation of a land sale (-4 dwarf favours; will be mostly pointless if the land is given over to a Count or Baron instead of sold individually) (does not take an action)
    [x] Survey the Haunted Hills for sites rich in Ulgu for the EIC to buy on your behalf if the land goes on the market.
    [x] Build a relation with the local community leader so that either he or someone else from the community can perform the duties of a steward. (cannot be outsourced)
    [x] Your experience with the so-called Fog of War has given you a lot of ideas for new applications of Ulgu. Investigate them to see what might be possible.
    [x] Shyish-kebabs: The Shyish swords are hideously dangerous as weapons, but fascinating as a subject of study. Try to reverse-engineer the lost enchantments woven into them.
    -[x] Ranald's Favor
    [x] Sell the produced niter crystals as fertiliser in Stirland.
    [X] [Niter Factory] Fold it into the EIC. (no action needed)
    [X] Leave it safely in your Sunken Palace.
    -[X] Build a relation with the local community leader so that either he or someone else from the community can perform the duties of a steward. (cannot be outsourced)
    --[x] Overwork
    -[x] Build a large home for yourself, with plenty of spare rooms to expand into (6 rooms, 150 gc).
    --[x] pay the 50% premium
    -[x] Build a bailey for your subjects to shelter in and to encompass other structures (100 gc for wood).
    -[x] Improve the road between the Estate and Sonningwiese (50 gc)
    -[x] Purchase a loom, erect a building for it, and invite weavers to start calling your estate home. (100 gc)
    -[x] Set up a dairy and recruit skilled cheesemakers from among the locals to work in it. (100 gc)
    -[x] Expand the EIC into Sonningwiese; this is unlikely to increase profits, but would indirectly improve the lot of your subjects.
    -[x] Expand the Gong Farmers into the rest of Western Stirland.
    -[x] No longer linked to the Watch, the Gong Farmers might be vulnerable. Arm and train them so they can defend themselves in the sewers.
    --[x] dwarf favour
    -[x] Sell the produced niter crystals to Zhufbar.
    --[x] funds the gong farmer actions
    -[x] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[x] Imbue an item with a petty or lesser magic. (specify item and spell)
    --[x] a magic lock safe for the underground palace. Heavy and well concealed, spend freely.
    [X][Personal] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say au revoir. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [X] [Study] Spells of Grey Magic (costs 1 College Favour)
    [X] [Personal] Your experience with the so-called Fog of War has given you a lot of ideas for new applications of Ulgu.
    [X] [Personal] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    -[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] [Gong Farmers] Fold them into the EIC; no need for you to have personal control of them. (no action needed)
    [X] [EIC] Use your friendship with Anton to build trade ties along the Nuln Road.
    [X][Estate] Seek and hire a steward to manage and improve the fief in your absence. (100 gold to pay them for the projected duration of your absence)
    -[X] Leave standing instructions for them to prioritize the safety and wellbeing of the fief over profit, as long as they don't outright make a loss.
    [X] [Estate] Hire Manager:
    -[X] Purchase a loom, erect a building for it, and invite weavers to start calling your estate home. (150 gc)
    -[X] Set up a dairy and recruit skilled cheesemakers from among the locals to work in it. (150 gc)
    -[X] Improve the road between the Estate and Sonningwiese (75 gc)
    [X] Bring it with you, doing what you can with padding and cushions to protect it.
    [X] Money Magister
    -[X] Seek and hire a steward to manage and improve the fief in your absence. (100 gold to pay them for the projected duration of your absence)
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Hire Manager
    --[X] Purchase a loom, erect a building for it, and invite weavers to start calling your estate home. (100 gc)
    --[X] Set up a dairy and recruit skilled cheesemakers from among the locals to work in it. (100 gc)
    --[X] Build a bailey for your subjects to shelter in and to encompass other structures (100 gc for wood, 400 gc for stone, optional dwarf help for -1 dwarf rep).
    ---[X] Wood
    -[X] Sell the produced niter crystals as fertiliser in Stirland.
    -[X] Getting To Know You: Spend time with someone, offering your help in their tasks and generally getting a feel for them (choose one) (can be taken multiple times).
    --[X] Regimand (Our old Master)
    -[X] Your experience with the so-called Fog of War has given you a lot of ideas for new applications of Ulgu. Investigate them to see what might be possible.
    -[X] Practical Diplomacy
    -[X] Farewell: Visit everyone you've gotten to know during your time in Stirland, let them know where you're off to, and say auf wiedersehen. (does not take an action, incompatible with Free Time)
    [X] Plan Foundation For a Future
    -[X][Personal] Seek and hire a steward to manage and improve the fief in your absence. (100 gold to pay them for the projected duration of your absence)
    --[X] Leave standing instructions for them to prioritize the safety and wellbeing of the fief over profit, as long as they don't outright make a loss.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X][Personal] Use your reputation to build trade ties with Zhufbar.
    -[X][Personal] Expand the EIC into Sonningwiese; this is unlikely to increase profits, but would indirectly improve the lot of your subjects.
    -[X][Personal] Sell the produced niter crystals as fertiliser in Stirland.
    -[X][Personal] Getting To Know You: Spend time with someone, offering your help in their tasks and generally getting a feel for them (choose one) (can be taken multiple times).​
    --[X] Kasmir​
    -[X][Social] Free Time: Now well-established in Wurtbad, you can spend some time in your scant off hours getting to know someone better. Pick one character. (does not take an action)​
    --[X] Wilhelmina​
    -[X][Overwork] Getting To Know You: Spend time with someone, offering your help in their tasks and generally getting a feel for them (choose one) (can be taken multiple times).​
    --[X] Anton​
    [X] Estate Plan: Last Minute Improvements (Free Actions)
    -[X] Build a bailey for your subjects to shelter in and to encompass other structures. (100+50 gc for wood)
    -[X] Improve the road between the Estate and Sonningwiese. (50+25 gc)
    -[X] Purchase a loom, erect a building for it, and invite weavers to start calling your estate home. (100+50 gc)
    -[X] Set up a dairy and recruit skilled cheesemakers from among the locals to work in it. (100+50 gc)
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Candesce said:
On the one hand, the shyish-kebabs was the primary reason for my initial pick of vote.

On the other hand, you've got an overworked training action in there.

I'm, quite simply, never going to vote for a plan that sticks in overwork training actions.
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That's fair- I wasn't terribly happy about the overwork bit myself, and am wary of overwork in general. It could go wrong. But I also couldn't convince myself to not have Mathilde at least try to gain something of her recent religious experiences, and Piety isn't one of Mathilde's primary stats either on campaign or in general, so a plan focused on building up her prowess for the upcoming campaign couldn't really justify spending an action slot on it- nor can we reasonably expect to spend an action on it while on campaign, when we'll always have more immediate priorities.

So in between "Mathilde learns nothing from Wolf's death" and "Mathilde spends time during her last few months in Stirland on something relatively unimportant to either maintaining her interests or furthering her capabilities", I decided to take a gamble. Ranald be with us.
 
Well, there's no point in arguing against the vote itself, so I will instead finish this long-overdue rant of mine direct my frustration at what I consider to be the root of the problem, this action:
[ ] Internalized Lessons: If you've been using a particular trait a fair bit in the last year, you can spend some time on it to internalize what you've learned and increase the trait (choose which trait; can be taken multiple times; will be more effective the more you've used the trait lately).
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To put it simply, I find this to be the most boring, uninspired, and unfulfilling action in the quest (no offense to boney, who somehow finds a way to make the scenes about this interesting). Observe our other options for self improvment:
  • Take more martial training, gaining significant bonuses to our fighting styles
  • expand our collection of spells, gaining new options to resolve conflicts
  • research new techniques, expanding our knowledge and once again finding new avenues to resolve conflicts
All specific, directed actions. But of all of these options the most popular is the action that grants a permanent few percentage points of a bonus to 1/6 of our activities. Somehow, this bland option is one of the most-picked choices in the quest. Why? Because it has limited availability, so if players don't pick it they feel like they lost something.

Throughout this vote, for example, plan Ready for Battle was consistently described and promoted as the plan to prepare us for fights. Now, absent the decaying opportunity issue, would ANYONE here say that the best way to do that was to acquire a 1-2% bonus to piety and learning actions? No, that's silly. Not only that, the overwork on piety means that the action is statisitically negative when it comes to stats. It is thus clear that the motivation was not that Mathilde really needed piety and learning to survive a pitched siege against goblins and skaven; it was the quest mechanics equivalent of "act now while supplies last." It isn't this vote alone either. In every vote for this option, players bring up how we'll "lose" the lesson if we don't follow up.

But the secret is that supplies ALWAYS last. There's always SOMETHING we can learn from a turn.
 
racnor said:
  • Take more martial training, gaining significant bonuses to our fighting styles
  • expand our collection of spells, gaining new options to resolve conflicts
  • research new techniques, expanding our knowledge and once again finding new avenues to resolve conflicts
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In principle I agree but now that we're not in the council we don't have many characters available to teach us skills.
 
You're not wrong, but I'm not sure if there's a better way to do it that is both characterful and immune to the temptation to 'grind'. And I'm not sure whether the 'problem' is on the mechanical end or the player perspective end. I'm definitely open to suggestions.
 
BoneyM said:
You're not wrong, but I'm not sure if there's a better way to do it that is both characterful and immune to the temptation to 'grind'. And I'm not sure whether the 'problem' is on the mechanical end or the player perspective end. I'm definitely open to suggestions.
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I don't think it should be changed as an action. I just think the voters need to be more aware of it.
 
BoneyM said:
You're not wrong, but I'm not sure if there's a better way to do it that is both characterful and immune to the temptation to 'grind'. And I'm not sure whether the 'problem' is on the mechanical end or the player perspective end. I'm definitely open to suggestions.
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I think at the very least Internalize options should only appear after major events, revelations or operations and should be tied to the fallout from an action rather than a stat.

Edit: Also another idea maybe make it something we can take as a Free Time action.
 
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Sinsystems said:
I think at the very least Internalize options should only appear after major events, revelations or operations and should be tied to the fallout from an action rather than a stat.
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That would just make it worse; decreasing the availability in such a manner means that the action would feel even more mandatory when it did come up.
 
BoneyM said:
You're not wrong, but I'm not sure if there's a better way to do it that is both characterful and immune to the temptation to 'grind'. And I'm not sure whether the 'problem' is on the mechanical end or the player perspective end. I'm definitely open to suggestions.
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Maybe replace the stat gains with actions that enable stat gains?

Er, that is, kind of how like we increased martial by going for greatswording? But for every stat. Rather than "Internalize Piety", it'd be something like a limited time action of "Meditate on Wolf's fate and your faith in Ranald".

Basically, Internalize Action, except you strip away the "no-bonuses" version and leave it only for times where it's meaningful, so that every increase in our numbers is accompanied by its particular story.

Adding more traits also makes more sense than increasing the limited omnicompetence of the mechanics of the base stats...
 
chocolote12 said:
Maybe replace the stat gains with actions that enable stat gains?

Er, that is, kind of how like we increased martial by going for greatswording? But for every stat. Rather than "Internalize Piety", it'd be something like a limited time action of "Meditate on Wolf's fate and your faith in Ranald".

Basically, Internalize Action, except you strip away the "no-bonuses" version and leave it only for times where it's meaningful, so that every increase in our numbers is accompanied by its particular story.

Adding more traits also makes more sense than increasing the limited omnicompetence of the mechanics of the base stats...
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Again, that's not the problem here. There IS a place for stat training occasionally. The issue is that the exclusivity of the training actions causes people to evaluate those actions on that exclusivity rather than the actual effect.
 
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