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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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AuraTwilight said:
It's because Kazumi Magica is really stupid and Firn changed a lot to make it up to standard. A lot of the Pleiade witches never even got names, iirc, so adjusting them all to tie into the Pleiades theme is pretty appropriate.
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*Considers, looks at memetic status of Asunaro on the thread, looks at canon PMKM witch names, considers again.*

...Okay, fair enough. Hmm, would that make the Soujuu's Witch "Orthrus" then?
 
Enchantment practice with Hitomi, would have to mean a first step at power-gem sharing? We have to choose a low-damage one for starters.
 
[x] Airi
-[x] "Me."
-[x] Be mild, neutral, polite.
-[x] Explain what we're doing and where she'll be staying for the near future
-[x] Telepathically, nonspecific: You'll be working on what Oriko offered her. No matter what.
-[x] Address her replies
-[x] Keep conversation well away from Witchbomb.

[X] Vote in abeyance.
-[x] Make sure Oriko's not bothered by the 'Kures' thing.

[X] Telepathy Masami and Hiroko about Kuroki

[X] Mami: Thoughts about O&K, freedom, and Homura. Ask if she could develop a tracking measure to let us check on O&K anytime.

[X] Enchantment practice.
-[X] Let Madoka and Hitomi attend if they want.

-[X] Practice the basics:
--[X] Imbuing objects with elements of your power. (Bringing things into our telekinesis and proprioception, self flying paper airplane, Etc.)
--[X] More advanced practice: Work with body control-based enchantment: map grief sensors to sight, grief-hearing, things like that.

-[X] Attempt to phase your grief to be invisible to normals

Anri:
Edited the Anri opener into an even more explicit note to be polite. After some of the talk here, I think it will be needed.
Cut talk of clearing the seed, replaced with a but if Onmur's section. Shuffled it around.
Remember that Sendai, Fukushima, and Mami are all with us right now.

RE: Enchantments:
I feel it better to start with the basics. Don't run before you can walk. Even the more advanced stuff we try should be close to the core.
Personally, my suggestions in that vein follow from the "our grief control makes grief effectively our body" theory.

Also added vote for grief phases because I want to and Hitomi will be there.

------

@Redshirt Army I'd appreciate your input on the vote to contact Masami and Hiroko. (My intention right now is to do this before enchantment practice, and get back to Hijiri either immediately after or after talking with Homura and Sayaka.)
 
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@The Phoenixian

[x] Airi
-[x] "Me."
-[x] Be mild, neutral, polite. Explain going on and where she'll be staying.
-[x] Telepathically, nonspecificly: You'll keep working on what Oriko discussed.
-[x] Address her replies. Avoid witchbomb.

[X] Vote in abeyance.
-[x] Ensure Oriko's okay with the 'Kures' thing.

[X] Telepathy Masami and Hiroko about Ono, progress finding Kuroki.

[X] Mami: Thoughts about O&K, freedom, and Homura. Discuss potential means to let us track and monitor O&K.

[X] Practice session.
-[X] Let Madoka and Hitomi attend if they want.
--[X] Follow Mami's suggestions for an enchantment curriculum.
--[X] Assist Sayaka with testing her powers.

100 words.
 
Vebyast said:
I feel that we should privately suggest Madoka-protection for Homura. That's not something that Mami would know to ask about, and it's something that Homura could get massive value out of.
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Very reasonable.

[x] Airi
-[x] "Me."
-[x] Be mild, neutral, polite. Explain what's going on and where she'll be staying.
-[x] Telepathically, nonspecificly: You'll keep working on what Oriko discussed.
-[x] Address her replies. Avoid witchbomb.

[X] Vote in abeyance.
-[x] Ensure Oriko's okay with the 'Kures' thing.

[X] Telepathy Masami and Hiroko about Ono, progress finding Kuroki.

[X] Mami: Thoughts about O&K, freedom, and Homura. Discuss potential means to let us track and monitor O&K.

[X] Practice session.
-[X] Let Madoka and Hitomi attend if they want.
--[X] Follow Mami's suggestions for an enchantment curriculum.
-[X] Suggest potential protective artifacts. Let Homura reach the conclusion re:Madoka without explicitly stating it.
-[X] Assist Sayaka with testing her powers.
 
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Got behind on the page, and posters are arguing about the Table-chan incident again.

One nitpick, most of the participants were fairly reasonable, aside from a few individuals toxic posts on both sides, so please don't paint the entirety of your opposing posters viewpoint with the sins of those individuals.

[X] Onmur
 
Matou Sutegobana said:
aside from a few individuals toxic posts on both sides
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When one side is voting from a belief that you have to threaten muggles with violence to not be "doormats", and the other side is just reacting to said other party wanting to flip the main character from "Madoka Kaname" to "Frank Castle", I don't think that you get to say that both sides are "equally bad".

(as a side note, while I'm sure that that argument can be used effectively, you'll probably want to be aware that it's currently strongly associated with a particular political demographic whose association doesn't do your position any good at all.)
 
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Vebyast said:
When one side is voting from a belief that you have to threaten muggles with violence to not be "doormats", and the other side is just reacting to said other party wanting to flip the main character from "Madoka Kaname" to "Frank Castle", I don't think that you get to say that both sides are "equally bad".

(as a side note, while I'm sure that that argument can be used effectively, you'll probably want to be aware that it's currently strongly associated with a particular political demographic whose association doesn't do your position any good at all.)
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First of all, you're generalizing posters into one extremist viewpoint and an outraged reaction.

Which in itself doesn't mesh with the resulting end vote of standing firm and staying non-violent to do so. And furthermore would flanderize posters like me as belonging to both camps.

Everyone was disgusted with the edgelord who voted to harm or threaten Sayaka and Hitomi. It wasn't one side giving tacit approval while the other got to express their moral outrage at the lows of their 'opposition party'.

There was two main proposed votes; O

One was to acknowledge Hitomi was fully within her right to attempt to slap Sabrina, either just from her limited knowledge or in general, and chastise Mami for restraining her - that didn't win.

The other was to chastise Sayaka for 'losing her cool' by pointing out how she could have easily hurt or killed someone - that also didn't win.

What won was a modification to the second vote in which we praised Mami, were slightly snarky and dismissive to Hitomi and Sayaka, and didn't resort to or condone violence. It was almost, but not really a compromise, because none of the goals or issues of the first vote were used.

If those of us who didn't want to 'be a doormat', were all insistent on "Threatening Muggles with violence", then how could we have ended up not doing so with a vote we won?


Secondly I never stated both sides are 'equally bad', I merely stated the majority of posters were reasonable. Heated yes, understandably so because of the toxic posters, but reasonable enough that a reasonable vote was produced to defuse the situation.
 
[x] Airi
-[x] "Me."
-[x] Be mild, neutral, polite. Explain what's going on and where she'll be staying.
-[x] Telepathically, nonspecificly: You'll keep working on what Oriko discussed.
-[x] Address her replies. Avoid witchbomb.

[X] Vote in abeyance.
-[x] Ask Oriko's if she's okay with the 'Kures' thing.

[X] Telepathy Masami and Hiroko about Ono and Kuroki.

[X] Mami: Thoughts about O&K, freedom, and Homura. Discuss potential means to let us track and monitor O&K.
-[X] Thoughts on Sayaka?

[X] Practice session.
-[X] Let Madoka and Hitomi attend if they want.
-[X] Nudge Homura towards protective/tracking magics regarding Madoka.
-[X] R1d4:
--[X] Practice Control Enchantment on Grief: Making Non-Witchy Pocket Brina.
--[X] Fourth dimensional Grief: Attempt to move Grief in four dimensions.
--[X] Check Aurora. Cleanse and observe. Attempt emotional communication?
--[X] Follow Mami's suggestions for an enchantment curriculum.

We should get something done today, science wise. Not sure what, though. We probably should check on Aurora?
 
Onmur said:
-[X] R1d4:
--[X] Practice Control Enchantment on Grief: Making Non-Witchy Pocket Brina.
--[X] Fourth dimensional Grief: Attempt to move Grief in four dimensions.
--[X] Check Aurora. Cleanse and observe. Attempt emotional communication?
--[X] Follow Mami's suggestions for an enchantment curriculum.

We should get something done today, science wise. Not sure what, though. We probably should check on Aurora?
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Still writing up my own response to Redshirt but I'm pretty eh on a lot of this: While I want to do some more science today (sonar, and griefhax psychometry in particular) the enchantment session should reserved for enchantment. Though I do think we could use a bit more direction than "do what Mami says." and I like the non-witchy pocket Brina as an element with a lot of moving parts to be figured out with enchantment. (though, I would)

Personally, I've been earmarking Aurora for a "tomorrow, during school hours" thing. It keeps the dewitching project away from Mami and the only thing we have earmarked then is talking with the Shiogama refugees.
 
Need to figure out how, or if it's possible, to enchant up a non-seed grief storage matrix.

And/or a non-grief-seed-based grief siphon.

Clear seeds are useful, but there are logistics issues, and they create a long-term problem for dewitching efforts. Having a way to capture, transport, and store grief that doesn't require seeds and doesn't require Sabrina's personal attention would be useful. And it's probably in the realm of her native magic.
 
If we're just throwing science ideas at the wall, one I'd like to test is the dimensionality/quantization of grief.

Grief isn't composed of atoms or molecules, it's a absolute substance. That implies that structures in grief can theoretically be scaled down to any size, smaller then any atom.

I want to try to make a true 3D fractal with grief. With just naive and direct grief control, this will probably eventually fail, since we probably have a precision limit, but even then knowing how many iterations we were able to make would let us pin down what exactly that precision limit is.

With witchy grief, though... I strongly suspect we should be able to generate a perfect 3D fractal. After all, the rules behind it are pretty simple to express and understand. And that's very interesting, because if we can make 3D fractals, and grief is an absolute substance...

The Banach-Tarski paradox comes into play.

In short, if we can divide an object made of an absolute substance into a set of 3D fractals, we should be able to arbitrarily multiply the total amount of those objects, forever. If this fails, that tells us something about grief. If it succeeds...

Most likely, it won't be "true" grief generation, in that I expect the total amount of uncompressed, non-witchy grief we have left (after we collapse the witchy grief construct) to be the same after we do this duplication process as what we started with. Rather, I expect this to show that "volume" is among the properties of witchy grief we can arbitrarily change as we wish, without impacting the "true amount" that went into creating that witchy grief.
 
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[x] Anri: Be mild, neutral, polite.
-[x] "Me."
-[x] Explain what's going on and where she'll be staying.
-[x] Telepathically, nonspecificly: You'll keep working on what Oriko discussed.
-[x] Address her replies. Ensure she doesn't spill witchbomb beans.

[X] Vote in abeyance.
-[x] Ask Oriko's if she's okay with the 'Kures' thing.

[X] Telepathy Masami and Hiroko about Ono, progress finding Kuroki.

[X] Mami: Thoughts about O&K, freedom, and Homura. Discuss potential means to let us track and monitor O&K.
-[X] Thoughts on Sayaka?

[X] Practice session.
-[X] Let Madoka and Hitomi attend if they want.
--[X] Confer with Mami on your enchantment curriculum.
---[X] Should you try analyzing and copying enchantments?
---[X] Default to replicating basic elements of your power.
---[X] More advanced: A non-witchy pocket Brina and components thereof, (sight, coloration, etc.)
-[X] Nudge Homura towards protective/tracking magics regarding Madoka.
-[X] Assist Sayaka with testing her powers.

150 exactly

Rearranged some of the early stuff and expanded a bit since I felt it lost some clarity.

Added a line for enchantment analysis. I've personally found that copying stuff by sight is both a learnable and extremely useful skill for designing things yourself.

Added a version of the pocket brina stuff. Not only is it likely to be within the realm of our powerset, but with Mami's ribbon clones, her extensive ribbon work (see: ribbon guns for things to look into in the vein of copying texture and color), the Sayaka clones, and even our own body, there's also stuff to work with in the vein of cribbing from others and getting better and analysis that way.
 
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[x] Airi
-[x] "Me."
-[x] Be mild, neutral, polite. Explain what's going on and where she'll be staying.
-[x] Telepathically, nonspecifically: You'll keep working on what Oriko discussed.
-[x] Address her replies. Avoid witchbomb.

[X] Vote in abeyance.
-[x] Ensure Oriko's okay with the 'Kures' thing.

[X] Telepathy Masami and Hiroko about Ono, progress finding Kuroki.

[X] Mami: Thoughts about O&K, freedom, and Homura.
-[x] Potential O&K tracking, monitoring methods?
-[X] Thoughts on Sayaka?

[X] Practice session.
-[X] With Madoka and Hitomi, if they want.
--[x] Update them about the talks. We're reasonably optimistic.
--[x] Ask: any ideas for meguca-business ventures?
-[X] Nudge Homura towards protective magics regarding Madoka. Artifacts, safety alarms, beacons?
-[X] Assist Sayaka with her power testing
--[x] Can others use Sayaka's gems?
-[X] Follow Mami's suggestions for an enchantment curriculum. Consider:
--[x] Magical telepathy router
--[x] Non-Witchy Pocket Brina
--[x] Dimensionality/quantization of grief. True 3D fractals?

Built-in word count says exactly 150 words for the vote. Is that the one we should be counting with?

Made some changes, really like @Redshirt Army's science idea, and it's a good foundation for later work, too. Put in some stuff from the day planner, condensed some wording. Included the bit about explicitly planning on updating Madoka and Hitomi, reassuringly. Is there a better tone we can use, because I'm not sure if that comes off a bit as 'handling' them unnecessarily. Actually, editing that bit. "We're reasonably optimistic." Both reassuring, more open, and not potentially seeming like we're trying to coddle them!

Let's also maybe not be nudging Homura to find ways to stick a covert tracker on Madoka if she hasn't already found one. Madoka is not particularly hard to find, with the open communication we have going on, and our new search grid-abilities, and all. What she is is squishy, and I feel like protective magic in this case will be of more use. Actually, bonus if the protection magic angle is something Homura herself can cover basically without assistance, after R&D is done. On the balance of things, if there's one thing Homura's magic should be amenable to doing, it is protecting Madoka, particularly now that we've comped the power costs. It would reassure Homura more, I think, if it's something she trusts from her own power, that's protecting Madoka at every instant. Well, if Homura trusts her powers, anyway- and with what we've observed about timestop as her sanctuary, I think she rather does.
 
Mami doesn't need to practice; if she's not assisting anyone we should use speckled enchanting to give her something useful to copy.

[x] Airi
-[x] "Me."
-[x] Be mild, neutral, polite. Explain what's going on and where she'll be staying.
-[x] Telepathically, non-specifically: You'll keep working on what Oriko discussed.
-[x] Address her replies. Avoid witchbomb.

[X] Vote in abeyance.
-[x] Ensure Oriko's okay with the 'Kures' thing.

[X] Telepathy Masami and Hiroko about Ono, progress finding Kuroki.

[X] Mami: Thoughts about O&K, freedom, and Homura and Sayaka.
-[x] Tracking bracelet so Homura can keep using them as a security blanket?

[X] Practice session.
-[X] Let Madoka and Hitomi attend if they want.
-[X] Homura: Suggest making something to protect Madoka.
--[x] Indicate her shield (=> "good at defensive enchantments") as a cover for your real reasoning.
-[x] Make speckled enchants for Mami to copy: Telepathy router, O&K tracking bracelet, non-witchy pocket brina?
 
... well, I suppose we all were working on vote ideas at the same time, there. I am liking things from all our propositions; more integrating of ideas, away!
 
Regarding Homura's and Sayaka's attitude towards lessening some of the restrictions on Oriko and Kirika, I think the fact that not much time has passed in the quest world since our conflict with them is a major problem. Maybe it'd be more worthwhile to frame the discussion in terms of conditions and timeframes? How long does Sayaka want to keep them under house arrest? What would they need to do in order to demonstrate they can do their own shopping?

Is Homura even willing to let them help with Walpurgisnacht? I'm not sure if this was ever explicitly discussed.
Redshirt Army said:
The Banach-Tarski paradox comes into play.

In short, if we can divide an object made of an absolute substance into a set of 3D fractals, we should be able to arbitrarily multiply the total amount of those objects arbitrarily. If this fails, that tells us something about grief. If it succeeds...
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Unfortunately, the Banach decomposition is distinctly non-constructive. A bit of a showcase for how unintuitive results one can achieve if non-constructive axioms are allowed in set theory, really. So I don't think you can will a sphere of Grief to decompose into the Banach sets, because you have no way of describing what those sets are.

It is a really cool idea, though.
 
[x] Airi: Be mild, neutral, polite.
-[x] "Me."
-[x] Explain what's going on and where she'll be staying.
-[x] Telepathically, non-specifically: You'll keep working on what Oriko discussed.
-[x] Address her replies. Avoid witchbomb.

[X] Vote in abeyance.
-[x] Ensure Oriko's okay with the 'Kures' thing.

[X] Telepathy Masami, Hiroko: re: Ono, progress finding Kuroki.

[X] Mami: Thoughts about O&K, freedom, and Homura and Sayaka.
-[x] Potential O&K tracking, monitoring methods?

[X] Practice session.
-[X] With Madoka and Hitomi, if they want.
--[x] Update them about alliance. We're reasonably optimistic.
-[X] Homura: Suggest protective magics for Madoka. Artifacts, safety alarms, beacons?
--[x] Indicate her shield ("defensive affinity") as cover for reasoning
-[X] Assist Sayaka with power testing
-[X] Confer with Mami on enchantments. Consider:
--[x] Making speckled enchantments to assist development:
---[x] Magical telepathy router
---[x] O&K tracking bracelet
---[x] Non-Witchy Pocket Brina, or components thereof


---[x] Dimensionality/quantization of grief. True 3D fractals?

How about this? 150 by the wordcount.

Looks like discussions of potential meguca business ventures will wait.

Roomba said:
Maybe it'd be more worthwhile to frame the discussion in terms of conditions and timeframes? How long does Sayaka want to keep them under house arrest? What would they need to do in order to demonstrate they can do their own shopping?
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This is an exceptionally good point and we need to keep it in mind when we hit the vote that covers it, yes.
 
I think a lot of the enchantment suggestions here is still us getting ahead of ourselves. The griefhaxing items to be copied especially seems like something that will eat up valuable training time. I think we're still at a stage where we should be considering fundamental skills rather than end-products. (Except inasmuch as those end products can teach fundamental skills.)
 
The Phoenixian said:
I think a lot of the enchantment suggestions here is still us getting ahead of ourselves. The griefhaxing items to be copied especially seems like something that will eat up valuable training time. I think we're still at a stage where we should be considering fundamental skills rather than end-products. (Except inasmuch as those end products can teach fundamental skills.)
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... fair point, although at least re: the tracking equipment, that's a bit of a near-term need.

Editing my frankenvote a bit, gimme a sec.
 
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