Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Table-chan did nothing wrong! Sayaka had no right! No right, I say!
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Table-chan did nothing wrong! Sayaka had no right! No right, I say!
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
No, that was some people's bullshit strawman exaggeration of how other people were responding. What actually happened was that some people were not okay with Sayaka using superstrength to trash our furniture in a fit of pique, and others decided to frame this is being somehow about establishing dominance rather than a teenager dangerously misusing her powers because she's having a temper tantrum so that they could ignore any dissenting opinions.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
It's amazing how consistently Sabrina's collective reactions imitate an actual human being's internal struggles.
I mean, think about it. A person of great power who has been working hard, struggling, and constantly fretting over how to best help people and make things right without doing something wrong is (almost) slapped by a teenager with none of her experience, a fragment of her knowledge, and no particular wisdom.
The first feeling is sudden rage. An urge to hurt the person who is judging them from a position of ignorance. This is only made worse by the fact that they have the power to get away with it. They have struggled so hard, tried so hard to do what's right, and this child is daring to accuse them!?
Almost immediately, they grapple with that rage, forcing it down bit by bit, until they are able to respond civilly, even if they're still angry and feel betrayed. Slowly, with time and distraction, they forget their anger and return to normal interaction, recognizing their childish rage for what it was.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That was exactly some people's reaction to Hitomi slapping us.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
The thread was Deeply Agreived after Hitomi objected to our crazy rant about Oriko.That sounds accusatory, but that feels so long ago that I don't even remember precisely what you're referring to.
Seriously, I can only vaguely recall the thread telling Sayaka and Hitomi that we accidentally mutilated Oriko and Kirika in a misguided attempt to pacify them and Hitomi almost smacking us in response. Was that it or did the thread do something else?
It's pretty strange, actually. A lot of times the thread as a whole is so smart that I can't follow at all. Other times it can be very... not smart.
E1ChristO
And this world is full of dreamers. Hug Harder.
- Location
- Walnut or LA, in CA
In other words, Sabrina had an intense struggle between her Id and Superego at that point.
I wonder if a psych major would see this thread as a fascinating case study.
mCooperative
meanderingCephalopod
- Location
- Back in Mitakihara after like 1000 years.
I mean, taking AI class this semester leaves me wondering what would happen if we tried to train an AI to be Sabrina by teaching it with the contents of this thread.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Maybe this is just phrasing, really really bad phrasing, but I'm reading a very aggressive, victim-blaming way of saying 'Sayaka had an accident with her new superpowers'.
Sayaka did not 'use her superstrenght to trash out furniture', or 'dangerously misused her powers'. She wasn't even having a 'temper tantrum'.
All of that would imply she decided to do what she accidentally did.
It was an accident. Sayaka didn't know her own strenght. Actually a pretty cliche moment where the newly minted superhero accidentally breaks something by doing a completely normal gesture they usually do, without realizing their new superpowers would turn that into something dangerous.
Anyone who's seen any superhero fiction can think a few examples off the top of their head.
I find it kind of interesting how it parallels normal teenager problems. Not knowing their own strenght, not knowing their own bodies.
Anyone who still wants to blame Sayaka for breaking that table is just blatantly wrong.
Dragontrapper
Homeless Draconis
- Location
- A Tower in the middle of nowhere
...I'd fund that.
mCooperative
meanderingCephalopod
- Location
- Back in Mitakihara after like 1000 years.
I always think Homura x Madoka, between the literal god v fallen angel aka devil thing they've got going on post-Rebellion, and the general sense of a long and persistent fight what with the time loops. But actually, yeah, Kyouko x Sayaka isn't a bad match. Hadn't considered it before, thanks for pointing it out. I think Homura/Madoka still wins out for me though, with the literal shotguns, and the fact the song basically sums up the actual events, more or less.
While I understood where Hitomi was coming from, I don't think laying hands on people is usually an appropriate response. Would you guys have been as okay with it if she had tried to hit Homura or Mami for their part in that mess?
I don't know about lecturing, but if someone had broken my table in a display of anger, I would probably be at least a little upset. I probably would have blown off Sayaka doing that in that particular situation (new magical girl, incredibly upsetting situation, etc.), but I think I can understand why certain people wouldn't have been okay with it?
I'm assuming that the other side had displayed their arguments in a terrible manner, because there do seem to be some half-decent points buried there. Sort of.
Last edited:
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
I think the rage would have won out, in that case. It would still have been close, but...we care a lot more about our Mumi and Momura than ourself.
E1ChristO
And this world is full of dreamers. Hug Harder.
- Location
- Walnut or LA, in CA
I sort of doubt it. Sabrina would have definitely said something in that case, but Sabrina (and by extension the thread) is almost as good as Mami at repressing stuff. There have been countless of times that various people here got really angry, but the thread as whole has always kept it down.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Hitomi is part of our group of friends. Not just people, friends.
Hell yes, I think it was appropriate. I can't count the amount of times me and my friends hit each other, playfully, or a bit less playfully to make a point, as teens.
Seriously, I'd have taken Hitomi's slap and thought nothing of it, beyond that she had a strong opinion. She wasn't trying to harm us, just making a point.
Hitomi knows self defense and is very self-controlled, I'd give her 0% odds of actually hurting us there, even if we didn't have super powers.
I think I would've feel more hurt if she had actually insulted us verbally.
Last edited:
mCooperative
meanderingCephalopod
- Location
- Back in Mitakihara after like 1000 years.
I think perhaps this is a place where there may be strong different opinions on what level of okay raising a hand to a friend may or may not be. Just wanting to point that out.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
In fairness, "woman slaps other woman to get them to knock off their bullshit" is a pretty stock anime trope.
Playfully, sure probably. Not playfully... I'm just going to emphatically disagree with you there and leave it at that. I'm really not in the mood for that sort of discussion.
Anyway, in broad strokes I agree with you guys and am pretty glad cooler heads had prevailed. That whole scene had been intense from what I remember.
Last edited:
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
I'm going to agree with Higure here. Hear me out.
For Sabrina, Mami is her friend, her girlfriend, all in all a beloved person.
But for me, an on-again-off-again participant of the quest?
She's Sabrina's waifu.
And what do you do if someone hurts your waifu?
You hurt the bastard. Right. Back. ( or at least wish you could while gulping down tears of rage and frustration, while continuing to watch the crazy clustercluck unfolding on the screen and scream— ahem. )
Conversely change "girlfriend" to just "friend" and "waifu" to "Momura" for Homura.
Seriously, application of violence is an almost instinctual response to watching your close ones being hurt. It's one of those tropes that are Truth in Television.
Basically explainable by your subconscious considering them at least partially an extension of your ego/superego, and while direct violence on your person can be left without response by consciously and unconsciously fighting said response down, pain being one of the factors that can help, other people who are close to you getting hurt is another matter entirely.
... I've read too many psychology books for amateurs while at school.
The situation is hypothetical anyway, and the whole thing ( I.e. Hitomi trying to bitch-slap Brina and Sayaka hurting Table-chan ) should really, really be put to rest. It was a long time ago? Some people, including me, didn't even participate at the time, so trading barbs for us is boring and unjustified?
... Please?
... so the update then. I guess explain to Airi what's going on? Tell her to contact us or Oriko (she hates us so probably Oriko) if she has problems or needs something, and then wish her the best. I'm not sure exactly that we should apologize for stopping her from her vengeance filled rampage. Or would that be more for accidentally setting her off when were speaking to her way earlier?
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Wait, really?
Interesting...looks like this is a cultural difference. I mean, a slap on the shoulder or something, sure, but a slap to the face, outside of very particular situations (such as breakups, for example)?
That's a grave insult, to me. I mean, it's kind of the last border of civility. You're forsaking words for violence--that implies that you are no longer worth talking to. It's not quite cutting ties, but it's pushing it.
Admittedly, I'm extraordinarily old fashioned, when it comes to manners. Maybe such things are less important than I thought, nowadays?
mCooperative
meanderingCephalopod
- Location
- Back in Mitakihara after like 1000 years.
At least partially because Sabrina isn't already a bundle of trauma in the way that they are, I think, and also in the practical sense, the thread can keep Sabrina from coming out of upsetting situations with too poor a mental state, but if someone trips the Mami or Homura houses of cards, we're not guaranteed to be able to be able to fix that.
Mind you, it looks as though we likely would not have physically retaliated, that particular incident- rereading the thread at the time looks like it dropped almost immediately into "how do we handle this situation powderkeg with our goals and aims intact" and then different analyses of exactly the right way to get our point across, which, although colored by indignation, don't look like unthought fits of temper. But verbally- reckon as it is was pretty close to something of a vicious verbal response. Reckon it woulda been worse, definitely, if we were defending Mami, or Homura.
At least where I've been, that action doesn't necessarily seem to be having that exact and agreed definition- but I think it does continue to carry that connotation, a lot of the time, depending on the circumstances. I'm not sure in these ones specifically, what with the physical power imbalance between Hitomi and Sabrina, and also what impact Japanese culture has on this discussion, but to punish or silence with violence does, I think, often take a tone of it-is-not-worth-speaking-with-you and possibly 'you are not intelligent/civilized enough to understand my reasoning, so I will merely classically condition you to react properly to it'.
That being said, a group of friends that communicate with a lot of physicality or roughhousing are just as likely to have their own internal protocol that doesn't have any of those nasty undertones at all, I think, though I do not have experience with them.
That-that being said, the entire conversation chapter set back then looks like a bit of a mess to suss out what every character was meaning, and it looks like the thread at the time had the same difficulty. So. Hm. Yeah, well, at any rate, I wasn't here either, so, I'll be moving back on.
"They" or "he" is fine, yeah.
I like this bit, seems like a plan.
(edited for grammar: spellcheck, what are you doing, stahp. Also, I didn't mean for this to be long, why is it long.)
Last edited: