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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Adhoc vote count started by Valkur on Feb 2, 2018 at 11:04 AM, finished with 225 posts and 24 votes.
  • [x] Plan Turn This Castle Upside Down And Shake It
    -[x] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    -[x] Trace their actions inside the castle, investigate every facet of what they did and see if there's a way they somehow could have sabotaged something.
    --[x] Van Hal assists
    -[x] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    -[x] Closely interrogate every remaining servant.
    -[x] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    -[x] If Kasmir is to be removed, he'll need replacing. Suggest somewhere that Van Hal could look to find someone.
    --[x] The Morrites are a key part of the defense against Sylvania and care for Stirland. They can likely suggest one of their own, or if that's not politically feasible, they could at least provide a recommendation as to a Sigmarite who they know that they and Stirland's other cults can work with well.
    -[x] Van Hal is having a crisis of faith, but as someone whose religion demands that she not talk about her religion, you don't think you can help. See if you can convince Wilhelmina to talk him through this. (no action)
    -[x] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each)
    --[x] Assign one to each of Drebkau and Langwald with orders to move in, build contacts, and send us reports regularly on recent events with an emphasis on anything unusual or suspicious. Veterans who have already retired into those locations or intend to do so anyway would be ideal.
    --[x] Assign one to keep an eye on opinions in the military. Put an emphasis on the new Marshal for now, from his staff if they can manage it.
    --[x] Assign one to keep in close contact with the Wurtbad Watch and personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[x] Hire a scribe to ensure that they are literate and numerate enough to send regular legible reports. (-15g discretionary)
    -[x] Van Hal recommended asking Anton about sons and daughters of nobles to use as assistants. They're likely to be well-educated and politically savvy, but their loyalties would be to their family and they may be undisciplined. Line up some interviews and see how it goes.
    --[x] Ranald's Blessing
    -[x] Report on Gustav based upon the previous investigation, anything learned from initially meeting him and asking some general questions about his background and plans, and whatever the new hires turn up before the deadline. (no action)
    --[x] Pass anything new to Van Hal, as well. (no action)
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    -[x] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[x] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    [X] Plan Solid Core
    -[X] As Per Orders: Perform your current assignment. Choose ONE to have Van Hal's assistance with.
    --[X] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    ---[X] Van Halp
    --[X] Trace their actions inside the castle, investigate every facet of what they did and see if there's a way they somehow could have sabotaged something.
    --[X] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    --[X] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    ---[X] Overwork
    -[X] Influencing Van Hal: You're going to be spending time with him anyway, that's a lot of time to talk. Choose up to ONE. If 'Sucking Up To The Boss' is chosen, choose up to TWO.
    --[X] He's seriously considering getting rid of Kasmir. Spend some time with him and suggest a specific approach, or try to talk him out of it. (write in approach and reasons)
    ---[X] Approach: You'd suggest to avoid doing anything as extreme as to the late Marshal, as that would ensure that the clergy of Stirland and the general Church of Sigmar would go from passive interference to active disruption. Which leaves two ways:
    ----[X] Provocation: Appoint influential local priests of Morr, Shallya, Rhya, Ulric, and maybe even Handrich, Myrmidia and whatever the halflings follow as Kasmir's advisory council, in addition to a local Sigmarite priest. Either he'd learn to work with the other faiths, achieving the objective without having to cross the Grand Theogonist, or Kasmir would be goaded into doing something unfortunate to his advisory council, in which case you'd be able to fire Kasmir for criminal action. Bonus if you can make sure that said priests come from noble backgrounds so as to make the resultant mess as hard to sweep away as possible.
    ----[X] Sabotage: You're hesitant to suggest this, but it would be possible to plant evidence in Kasmir's rooms that he's been working with the contents of the East Wing in secret. Which would give Van Hal the justification to execute him if successful. The problem is that given the way such things work, its all too easy for a lie to become reality and you'd really rather not touch any of it yourself.
    ----[X] You'd recommend the provocation approach, since it SHOULD be useful even if it fails, and theres really nothing stopping the Grand Theogonist from sending endless and increasingly worse lines of zealots as he removes each one.
    -[X] Backtracking and Side Operations:
    --[X] Okay. A report on the new Martial. Follow them around for a while, see what you can find out about them. (NEW)
    ---[X] Van Hal gets a copy as well.
    --[X] Try to tail the messenger who you give the report to. (NEW)
    ---[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each) (NEW)
    --[X] Get five.
    ---[X] Assign one to Bidenhof, Tarshof and Julbach each. Preferably someone who comes from those villages. Their job is to keep you up to date with the village rumors and point out what's just local custom, and whats unusual for those villages, as well as to acquire more gossips/informants from the village outlying farms in their own time.
    ---[X] Assign one to keep in touch with Swartzhafen, preferably someone who knows the Commander there.
    ---[X] Assign one to summing up the Wurtbad Watch's reports and to personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[X] Pay for them to be taught literacy, and basic sums if necessary. Check if they have any useful side skills. Assign to other tasks if they do.
    --[X] You'll get someone more educated(and no doubt, more expensive) from Anton later to manage what these guys churn out, but for now their job is to expand the not-at-all subtle informants and save your ass from riding up and down the country all year.
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed) (NEW)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    -[X] Research:
    --[X] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano. (NEW)
    [x] Plan They're coming out of the walls (but hopefully not the mirrors)
    -[x] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator. Van Hal.
    -[x] Closely interrogate every remaining servant.
    --[x] We might have non-Sigmarite priests from the Kasimir/Van Hal action to re-vet faith?
    -[x] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    -[x] If Kasmir is to be removed, he'll need replacing. Suggest somewhere that Van Hal could look to find someone. 'Suggest' he/Kasmir invites some prominent Morrite priests, Shalyans etc to help verify the faiths of the staff, with the Morrites also to examine the gribblies. He can size them up then? (free)
    -[x] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each)
    -[x] Looking for three. One bodyguard/assistant/messenger/apprentice. One to regularly cycle round the regional Watches and bring back reports. One to insert as retiree/veteran observer in Leicheberg (on the border, main army base. At least this guy will hear the back-from-patrol gossip from the border force).
    --[x] Scribe literacy training. -15g.
    -[x] Write down what little you already know and send that instead. (does not cost an action)
    --[x] One of our not-quite-yet but soon-to-retire recruits is to provide a report on the new Martial advisor. Theres a lot to be learned from how he addresses the men, who he surrounds himself with, what if anything he changes in army drills, organisation, etc. Add (some of?) this to our report. (free?)
    -[x] Try to tail the messenger who you give the report to. Ranald Bonus.
    -[x] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed)
    -[x] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    -[x] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano.
Click to expand...
 
Dutch said:
Honestly. I'd say we should just flat out get in his face about it. Tell him we have no issue with his quest to "reconquer" Stirland for the cult of Sigmar or whatnot, but by failing to study his "rival/opponents" he's oblivious of the corruption and heresy underneath his own nose.

Throw some scripture at him if needed.

Now is pretty much the time to act because we have a clear example.
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Sensible. I'll add something to confront him about it in my vote for Van Hal to act on.
Though I'm still a vote behind, so not sure if it helps enough
 
veekie said:
-[X] Influencing Van Hal: You're going to be spending time with him anyway, that's a lot of time to talk. Choose up to ONE. If 'Sucking Up To The Boss' is chosen, choose up to TWO.
--[X] He's seriously considering getting rid of Kasmir. Spend some time with him and suggest a specific approach, or try to talk him out of it. (write in approach and reasons)
---[X] Approach: You'd suggest to avoid doing anything as extreme as to the late Marshal, as that would ensure that the clergy of Stirland and the general Church of Sigmar would go from passive interference to active disruption. Which leaves three ways:
----[X] Rehabilitation: Approach it as a strategic exercise for Kasmir, that he cannot effectively convert the residents of Stirland back to Sigmar's will if he does not know the opposition. Challenge Kasmir to find out what needs are met by Morr, Ulric and Shallya which Sigmar's servants have not been meeting, then meet them. More importantly, find out how to tell apart those who are of different faiths, from those who are loyal to abominations unto Sigmar, of the vampires and necromancers that blight the world, take examples from Sigmar's own trials under each god to gain their blessing and how his own priests should emulate their god in uniting the gods of Man against the forces of Night. There's nothing to be lost but time and possibly patience from trying this approach first.
----[X] Provocation: Appoint influential local priests of Morr, Shallya, Rhya, Ulric, and maybe even Handrich, Myrmidia and whatever the halflings follow as Kasmir's advisory council, in addition to a local Sigmarite priest. Either he'd learn to work with the other faiths, achieving the objective without having to cross the Grand Theogonist, or Kasmir would be goaded into doing something unfortunate to his advisory council, in which case you'd be able to fire Kasmir for criminal action. Bonus if you can make sure that said priests come from noble backgrounds so as to make the resultant mess as hard to sweep away as possible.
----[X] Sabotage: You're hesitant to suggest this, but it would be possible to plant evidence in Kasmir's rooms that he's been working with the contents of the East Wing in secret. Which would give Van Hal the justification to execute him if successful. The problem is that given the way such things work, its all too easy for a lie to become reality and you'd really rather not touch any of it yourself.
----[X] You'd recommend trying to rehabilitate him before going with the the provocation approach, since it SHOULD be useful even if it fails, and theres really nothing stopping the Grand Theogonist from sending endless and increasingly worse lines of zealots as he removes each one. The best course of action is one which makes Kasmir an asset, as the Grand Theogonist cannot replace him or censure us if we change Kasmir's mind on things.
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Added one more option, changed the recommendation to try to get through to Kasmir with words(and the military exercise angle may let Van Hal make use of his extremely good Martial in the debate rather than pit Piety or Diplomacy against a priest who likely has better in both)
 
veekie said:
Though with the leading plan...why are we using Van Hal on the action he said he's not good at instead of either the autopsy(high Learning) or the Interrogation(Witch Hunter skill)? @DarkLight140
That's the biggest objection. Van Hal is explicitly not good at intrigue. He has Paranoid bringing him to merely average!
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The plan's not currently taking the autopsy action and can't assign Van Hal to it independently (as far as I know) without losing the Kasmir discussion action... although considering the points that have been brought up in favor of autopsy, it might be worth swapping one of the other lines of investigation to that and then moving Van Hal to assist. Do you have an opinion on which we could afford to lose? Interrogating the infiltrator, interrogating the servants, and following up on the servants' stories are locks as far as I'm concerned, so it'll have to be one of the other two.

Of those, "investigate what they did" might lead us to discovering and undoing some sort of damage, and "investigate their movements in town" might lead to us discovering spies based in town or some kind of weakening of the town defenses. I had considered both important, but maybe knowing the nature of the infiltrators is more so?

I don't really want Van Hal on interrogation with us because I don't want our relationship with Van Hal to be substantially built around torturing people together, which admittedly is a petty narrative reason but we've spent a sharply limited number of actions in his company and one was torture already.

There's nothing to be lost but time and possibly patience from trying this approach first.
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There's also the financial and opportunity cost of not having a properly functioning Piety advisor; Van Hal is paying for things like "get my army priests" and then Kasmir does so in highly inefficient and ineffective ways, as we've seen. If a conversation with him doesn't make him change his ways, every turn that he remains in place leaves Stirland worse off than it should be.

I can see the appeal of saying "give Kasmir another chance" because it doesn't rock the boat and make Van Hal more political enemies, but he wouldn't be raging about how the Grand Theogonist has betrayed Stirland if he found that remotely acceptable. He's talked to Kasmir already. Maybe he could leave Kasmir in place if he could pressure the Grand Theogonist to talk to him about doing his job properly (whether he make that happen by threats or concessions or whatever), but all evidence is that the Grand Theogonist wants Kasmir to do what he's currently doing.

Yes, I'm aware that your plan is about presenting Van Hal with a variety of options, but as others have mentioned I don't really feel like giving him bad/useless/redundant options is in our interests.


 
Last edited:
Inserted tally

Vote is tied 13-13
Adhoc vote count started by masterofmadness on Feb 2, 2018 at 12:47 PM, finished with 233 posts and 27 votes.
  • [x] Plan Turn This Castle Upside Down And Shake It
    -[x] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    -[x] Trace their actions inside the castle, investigate every facet of what they did and see if there's a way they somehow could have sabotaged something.
    --[x] Van Hal assists
    -[x] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    -[x] Closely interrogate every remaining servant.
    -[x] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    -[x] If Kasmir is to be removed, he'll need replacing. Suggest somewhere that Van Hal could look to find someone.
    --[x] The Morrites are a key part of the defense against Sylvania and care for Stirland. They can likely suggest one of their own, or if that's not politically feasible, they could at least provide a recommendation as to a Sigmarite who they know that they and Stirland's other cults can work with well.
    -[x] Van Hal is having a crisis of faith, but as someone whose religion demands that she not talk about her religion, you don't think you can help. See if you can convince Wilhelmina to talk him through this. (no action)
    -[x] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each)
    --[x] Assign one to each of Drebkau and Langwald with orders to move in, build contacts, and send us reports regularly on recent events with an emphasis on anything unusual or suspicious. Veterans who have already retired into those locations or intend to do so anyway would be ideal.
    --[x] Assign one to keep an eye on opinions in the military. Put an emphasis on the new Marshal for now, from his staff if they can manage it.
    --[x] Assign one to keep in close contact with the Wurtbad Watch and personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[x] Hire a scribe to ensure that they are literate and numerate enough to send regular legible reports. (-15g discretionary)
    -[x] Van Hal recommended asking Anton about sons and daughters of nobles to use as assistants. They're likely to be well-educated and politically savvy, but their loyalties would be to their family and they may be undisciplined. Line up some interviews and see how it goes.
    --[x] Ranald's Blessing
    -[x] Report on Gustav based upon the previous investigation, anything learned from initially meeting him and asking some general questions about his background and plans, and whatever the new hires turn up before the deadline. (no action)
    --[x] Pass anything new to Van Hal, as well. (no action)
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    -[x] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[x] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    [X] Plan Solid Core
    -[X] As Per Orders: Perform your current assignment. Choose ONE to have Van Hal's assistance with.
    --[X] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    ---[X] Van Halp
    --[X] Trace their actions inside the castle, investigate every facet of what they did and see if there's a way they somehow could have sabotaged something.
    --[X] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    --[X] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    ---[X] Overwork
    -[X] Influencing Van Hal: You're going to be spending time with him anyway, that's a lot of time to talk. Choose up to ONE. If 'Sucking Up To The Boss' is chosen, choose up to TWO.
    --[X] He's seriously considering getting rid of Kasmir. Spend some time with him and suggest a specific approach, or try to talk him out of it. (write in approach and reasons)
    ---[X] Approach: You'd suggest to avoid doing anything as extreme as to the late Marshal, as that would ensure that the clergy of Stirland and the general Church of Sigmar would go from passive interference to active disruption. Which leaves three ways:
    ----[X] Rehabilitation: Approach it as a strategic exercise for Kasmir, that he cannot effectively convert the residents of Stirland back to Sigmar's will if he does not know the opposition. Challenge Kasmir to find out what needs are met by Morr, Ulric and Shallya which Sigmar's servants have not been meeting, then meet them. More importantly, find out how to tell apart those who are of different faiths, from those who are loyal to abominations unto Sigmar, of the vampires and necromancers that blight the world, take examples from Sigmar's own trials under each god to gain their blessing and how his own priests should emulate their god in uniting the gods of Man against the forces of Night. There's nothing to be lost but time and possibly patience from trying this approach first.
    ----[X] Provocation: Appoint influential local priests of Morr, Shallya, Rhya, Ulric, and maybe even Handrich, Myrmidia and whatever the halflings follow as Kasmir's advisory council, in addition to a local Sigmarite priest. Either he'd learn to work with the other faiths, achieving the objective without having to cross the Grand Theogonist, or Kasmir would be goaded into doing something unfortunate to his advisory council, in which case you'd be able to fire Kasmir for criminal action. Bonus if you can make sure that said priests come from noble backgrounds so as to make the resultant mess as hard to sweep away as possible.
    ----[X] Sabotage: You're hesitant to suggest this, but it would be possible to plant evidence in Kasmir's rooms that he's been working with the contents of the East Wing in secret. Which would give Van Hal the justification to execute him if successful. The problem is that given the way such things work, its all too easy for a lie to become reality and you'd really rather not touch any of it yourself.
    ----[X] You'd recommend trying to rehabilitate him before going with the the provocation approach, since it SHOULD be useful even if it fails, and theres really nothing stopping the Grand Theogonist from sending endless and increasingly worse lines of zealots as he removes each one. The best course of action is one which makes Kasmir an asset, as the Grand Theogonist cannot replace him or censure us if we change Kasmir's mind on things.
    -[X] Backtracking and Side Operations:
    --[X] Okay. A report on the new Martial. Follow them around for a while, see what you can find out about them. (NEW)
    ---[X] Van Hal gets a copy as well.
    --[X] Try to tail the messenger who you give the report to. (NEW)
    ---[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each) (NEW)
    --[X] Get five.
    ---[X] Assign one to Bidenhof, Tarshof and Julbach each. Preferably someone who comes from those villages. Their job is to keep you up to date with the village rumors and point out what's just local custom, and whats unusual for those villages, as well as to acquire more gossips/informants from the village outlying farms in their own time.
    ---[X] Assign one to keep in touch with Swartzhafen, preferably someone who knows the Commander there.
    ---[X] Assign one to summing up the Wurtbad Watch's reports and to personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[X] Pay for them to be taught literacy, and basic sums if necessary. Check if they have any useful side skills. Assign to other tasks if they do.
    --[X] You'll get someone more educated(and no doubt, more expensive) from Anton later to manage what these guys churn out, but for now their job is to expand the not-at-all subtle informants and save your ass from riding up and down the country all year.
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed) (NEW)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    -[X] Research:
    --[X] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano. (NEW)
    [x] Plan They're coming out of the walls (but hopefully not the mirrors)
    -[x] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator. Van Hal.
    -[x] Closely interrogate every remaining servant.
    --[x] We might have non-Sigmarite priests from the Kasimir/Van Hal action to re-vet faith?
    -[x] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    -[x] If Kasmir is to be removed, he'll need replacing. Suggest somewhere that Van Hal could look to find someone. 'Suggest' he/Kasmir invites some prominent Morrite priests, Shalyans etc to help verify the faiths of the staff, with the Morrites also to examine the gribblies. He can size them up then? (free)
    -[x] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each)
    -[x] Looking for three. One bodyguard/assistant/messenger/apprentice. One to regularly cycle round the regional Watches and bring back reports. One to insert as retiree/veteran observer in Leicheberg (on the border, main army base. At least this guy will hear the back-from-patrol gossip from the border force).
    --[x] Scribe literacy training. -15g.
    -[x] Write down what little you already know and send that instead. (does not cost an action)
    --[x] One of our not-quite-yet but soon-to-retire recruits is to provide a report on the new Martial advisor. Theres a lot to be learned from how he addresses the men, who he surrounds himself with, what if anything he changes in army drills, organisation, etc. Add (some of?) this to our report. (free?)
    -[x] Try to tail the messenger who you give the report to. Ranald Bonus.
    -[x] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed)
    -[x] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    -[x] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano.
Click to expand...
 
DarkLight140 said:
The plan's not currently taking the autopsy action and can't assign Van Hal to it independently (as far as I know) without losing the Kasmir discussion action... although considering the points that have been brought up in favor of autopsy, it might be worth swapping one of the other lines of investigation to that and then moving Van Hal to assist. Do you have an opinion on which we could afford to lose? Interrogating the infiltrator, interrogating the servants, and following up on the servants' stories are locks as far as I'm concerned, so it'll have to be one of the other two.

Of those, "investigate what they did" might lead us to discovering and undoing some sort of damage, and "investigate their movements in town" might lead to us discovering spies based in town or some kind of weakening of the town defenses. I had considered both important, but maybe knowing the nature of the infiltrators is more so?

I don't really want Van Hal on interrogation with us because I don't want our relationship with Van Hal to be substantially built around torturing people together, which admittedly is a petty narrative reason but we've spent a sharply limited number of actions in his company and one was torture already.
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So instead he was assigned to a task he wasn't good at. It's actually listed that Van Hal finds that someone willing to sit through, and/or help with the interrogation

Remember also that we're aside from the session with Van Hal, not really much of an interrogator. The Grey Wizards are always more about spying and infiltrating than extracting answers from people.
DarkLight140 said:
There's also the financial and opportunity cost of not having a properly functioning Piety advisor; Van Hal is paying for things like "get my army priests" and then Kasmir does so in highly inefficient and ineffective ways, as we've seen. If a conversation with him doesn't make him change his ways, every turn that he remains in place leaves Stirland worse off than it should be.

I can see the appeal of saying "give Kasmir another chance" because it doesn't rock the boat and make Van Hal more political enemies, but he wouldn't be raging about how the Grand Theogonist has betrayed Stirland if he found that remotely acceptable. He's talked to Kasmir already. Maybe he could leave Kasmir in place if he could pressure the Grand Theogonist to talk to him about doing his job properly (whether he make that happen by threats or concessions or whatever), but all evidence is that the Grand Theogonist wants Kasmir to do what he's currently doing.
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Those costs get paid regardless, because no matter how we do it, if we get rid of Kasmir, the Grand Theogonist is not the sort of fold and send someone more amendable. He's more likely to send someone harder to kill/frame instead.

The thing is, Kasmir is doing what the Grand Theogonist asks incompetently. Hes not really making much headway in the mid term when his entire batch of chaplains wound up being assigned to a single unit. Everyone fails.

E: Going to bed now.
 
The "assign a task he's not good at" argument is rather dubious because we're working on a d%+stat system here where the difference between the highest and lowest stat is about ten points. Having two characters on a project means each is rolling a d% and adding their stat, and stat differences are so small relative to the variation in d% rolls that the best-of-two effect is vastly more important to the results than their statlines.

That said, it's not completely without merit (particularly from a flavor perspective, and flavor matters), and in the absence of any feedback from anyone on the question of which investigation line they think is most important after the better part of an hour, I'm making the call to swap out the sabotage investigation for the autopsy, and move Van Hal's assistance to the autopsy. That leaves us with the ability to chase down any town-based infiltrators or sabotage and lets us know the nature of our enemies while making best use of Van Hal's impressive Learning stat bonus.

Voters take note.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by HanEmpire on Feb 2, 2018 at 2:14 PM, finished with 238 posts and 29 votes.
  • [X] Plan Solid Core
    -[X] As Per Orders: Perform your current assignment. Choose ONE to have Van Hal's assistance with.
    --[X] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    ---[X] Van Halp
    --[X] Trace their actions inside the castle, investigate every facet of what they did and see if there's a way they somehow could have sabotaged something.
    --[X] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    --[X] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    ---[X] Overwork
    -[X] Influencing Van Hal: You're going to be spending time with him anyway, that's a lot of time to talk. Choose up to ONE. If 'Sucking Up To The Boss' is chosen, choose up to TWO.
    --[X] He's seriously considering getting rid of Kasmir. Spend some time with him and suggest a specific approach, or try to talk him out of it. (write in approach and reasons)
    ---[X] Approach: You'd suggest to avoid doing anything as extreme as to the late Marshal, as that would ensure that the clergy of Stirland and the general Church of Sigmar would go from passive interference to active disruption. Which leaves three ways:
    ----[X] Rehabilitation: Approach it as a strategic exercise for Kasmir, that he cannot effectively convert the residents of Stirland back to Sigmar's will if he does not know the opposition. Challenge Kasmir to find out what needs are met by Morr, Ulric and Shallya which Sigmar's servants have not been meeting, then meet them. More importantly, find out how to tell apart those who are of different faiths, from those who are loyal to abominations unto Sigmar, of the vampires and necromancers that blight the world, take examples from Sigmar's own trials under each god to gain their blessing and how his own priests should emulate their god in uniting the gods of Man against the forces of Night. There's nothing to be lost but time and possibly patience from trying this approach first.
    ----[X] Provocation: Appoint influential local priests of Morr, Shallya, Rhya, Ulric, and maybe even Handrich, Myrmidia and whatever the halflings follow as Kasmir's advisory council, in addition to a local Sigmarite priest. Either he'd learn to work with the other faiths, achieving the objective without having to cross the Grand Theogonist, or Kasmir would be goaded into doing something unfortunate to his advisory council, in which case you'd be able to fire Kasmir for criminal action. Bonus if you can make sure that said priests come from noble backgrounds so as to make the resultant mess as hard to sweep away as possible.
    ----[X] Sabotage: You're hesitant to suggest this, but it would be possible to plant evidence in Kasmir's rooms that he's been working with the contents of the East Wing in secret. Which would give Van Hal the justification to execute him if successful. The problem is that given the way such things work, its all too easy for a lie to become reality and you'd really rather not touch any of it yourself.
    ----[X] You'd recommend trying to rehabilitate him before going with the the provocation approach, since it SHOULD be useful even if it fails, and theres really nothing stopping the Grand Theogonist from sending endless and increasingly worse lines of zealots as he removes each one. The best course of action is one which makes Kasmir an asset, as the Grand Theogonist cannot replace him or censure us if we change Kasmir's mind on things.
    -[X] Backtracking and Side Operations:
    --[X] Okay. A report on the new Martial. Follow them around for a while, see what you can find out about them. (NEW)
    ---[X] Van Hal gets a copy as well.
    --[X] Try to tail the messenger who you give the report to. (NEW)
    ---[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each) (NEW)
    --[X] Get five.
    ---[X] Assign one to Bidenhof, Tarshof and Julbach each. Preferably someone who comes from those villages. Their job is to keep you up to date with the village rumors and point out what's just local custom, and whats unusual for those villages, as well as to acquire more gossips/informants from the village outlying farms in their own time.
    ---[X] Assign one to keep in touch with Swartzhafen, preferably someone who knows the Commander there.
    ---[X] Assign one to summing up the Wurtbad Watch's reports and to personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[X] Pay for them to be taught literacy, and basic sums if necessary. Check if they have any useful side skills. Assign to other tasks if they do.
    --[X] You'll get someone more educated(and no doubt, more expensive) from Anton later to manage what these guys churn out, but for now their job is to expand the not-at-all subtle informants and save your ass from riding up and down the country all year.
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed) (NEW)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    -[X] Research:
    --[X] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano. (NEW)
    [x] Plan Turn This Castle Upside Down And Shake It
    -[x] Examine closely the corpse of the slain infiltrator, trying to determine the cause of their abilities.
    --[x] Van Hal assists
    -[x] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    -[x] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    -[x] Closely interrogate every remaining servant.
    -[x] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    -[x] If Kasmir is to be removed, he'll need replacing. Suggest somewhere that Van Hal could look to find someone.
    --[x] The Morrites are a key part of the defense against Sylvania and care for Stirland. They can likely suggest one of their own, or if that's not politically feasible, they could at least provide a recommendation as to a Sigmarite who they know that they and Stirland's other cults can work with well.
    -[x] Van Hal is having a crisis of faith, but as someone whose religion demands that she not talk about her religion, you don't think you can help. See if you can convince Wilhelmina to talk him through this. (no action)
    -[x] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each)
    --[x] Assign one to each of Drebkau and Langwald with orders to move in, build contacts, and send us reports regularly on recent events with an emphasis on anything unusual or suspicious. Veterans who have already retired into those locations or intend to do so anyway would be ideal.
    --[x] Assign one to keep an eye on opinions in the military. Put an emphasis on the new Marshal for now, from his staff if they can manage it.
    --[x] Assign one to keep in close contact with the Wurtbad Watch and personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[x] Hire a scribe to ensure that they are literate and numerate enough to send regular legible reports. (-15g discretionary)
    -[x] Van Hal recommended asking Anton about sons and daughters of nobles to use as assistants. They're likely to be well-educated and politically savvy, but their loyalties would be to their family and they may be undisciplined. Line up some interviews and see how it goes.
    --[x] Ranald's Blessing
    -[x] Report on Gustav based upon the previous investigation, anything learned from initially meeting him and asking some general questions about his background and plans, and whatever the new hires turn up before the deadline. (no action)
    --[x] Pass anything new to Van Hal, as well. (no action)
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    -[x] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[x] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    [x] Plan They're coming out of the walls (but hopefully not the mirrors)
    -[x] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator. Van Hal.
    -[x] Closely interrogate every remaining servant.
    --[x] We might have non-Sigmarite priests from the Kasimir/Van Hal action to re-vet faith?
    -[x] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    -[x] If Kasmir is to be removed, he'll need replacing. Suggest somewhere that Van Hal could look to find someone. 'Suggest' he/Kasmir invites some prominent Morrite priests, Shalyans etc to help verify the faiths of the staff, with the Morrites also to examine the gribblies. He can size them up then? (free)
    -[x] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each)
    -[x] Looking for three. One bodyguard/assistant/messenger/apprentice. One to regularly cycle round the regional Watches and bring back reports. One to insert as retiree/veteran observer in Leicheberg (on the border, main army base. At least this guy will hear the back-from-patrol gossip from the border force).
    --[x] Scribe literacy training. -15g.
    -[x] Write down what little you already know and send that instead. (does not cost an action)
    --[x] One of our not-quite-yet but soon-to-retire recruits is to provide a report on the new Martial advisor. Theres a lot to be learned from how he addresses the men, who he surrounds himself with, what if anything he changes in army drills, organisation, etc. Add (some of?) this to our report. (free?)
    -[x] Try to tail the messenger who you give the report to. Ranald Bonus.
    -[x] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed)
    -[x] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    -[x] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano.
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Well, clearly I need to drop my plan. But I have concerns about both the others.

@BoneyM is this likely to result in an improvement for Mathilde? In either quality, quantity of info? Is the assumption that this is taking Mathilde a lot of time even correct? I presume not, being as you mentioned a postal service. And this is 50g/turn.

--[ ]Assign one to Bidenhof, Tarshof and Julbach each. Preferably someone who comes from those villages. Their job is to keep you up to date with the village rumors and point out what's just local custom, and whats unusual for those villages, as well as to acquire more gossips/informants from the village outlying farms in their own time.
---[ ]Assign one to keep in touch with Swartzhafen, preferably someone who knows the Commander there.
---[ ]Assign one to summing up the Wurtbad Watch's reports and to personally get to know the Watchmen.

@DarkLight140 I can't help recall the reactions of everyone more experienced than us when they hear we've been ignoring the Chaos Entity stalking us. We should read the book. I'm not sure that's less important than interviewing Anton's pals? Your plan doesn't have any overwork?
 
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Alliterate said:
@DarkLight140 I can't help recall the reactions of everyone more experienced than us when they hear we've been ignoring the Chaos Entity stalking us. We should read the book.
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I'm not willing to drop any of the actions currently in my plan, and I'm not willing to assign overwork to the Asp. If you have a reasonable argument for why any specific action currently in the plan is somewhere that an amplified critfail won't completely screw us, though, I'll entertain the idea of putting the overwork on something else and adding the Asp as a seventh action.
 
I'm not sure interviewing Anton's pals is vital?

Maybe the village story check interviews? Bring our assigned squad of Greatswords when we do it? Being as a Critfail could be be 'run into a Vampire mesmerising their renfields'

I'd suggest it be on action where we have a Ranald or van Hal bonus, but I agree it shouldn't be on our roll to get an assistant.

@DarkLight140 See, I have a feeling the Asp turning up without us knowing a damn thing is gonna be worse than a critfail. I don't know what they can do, but mutations might not be the worst of it.
 
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Alliterate said:
I'm not sure interviewing Anton's pals is vital?
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I actually think that's a really important action, because a well-chosen noble assistant is the kind of person who we can train up as full assistant spymaster and have handle a lot of different action types- after all, most Elector Counts' spymasters are likely to be other nobles so there's an archetype to play to there. I'm counting on that action to get us an actual reliable lieutenant and free up action slots for us in future turns, which is why I gave it the Ranald bonus. Putting it off means suffering under the same action crunch that we do now next turn as well, because the hired veterans provide useful new sources of information but aren't going to do much to lighten our load (I'm not buying @veekie's assertion that assigning them to already-controlled villages will improve or streamline results from those locations significantly).

Maybe the village story check interviews? Bring our assigned squad of Greatswords when we do it?

I'd suggest it be on action where we have a Ranald or van Hal bonus, but I agree it shouldn't be on our roll to get an assistant.
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I'm concerned that a critfail on servant interviews or backstory checking would lead to us marking servants as confirmed reliable when they're actually spies, which would be catastrophic. More so than, say, someone in the villages trying to stab us- although greatswords would ward against at least that avenue of failure.

I guess you're right that we could put it on the autopsy, since we'll have Van Hal to pick up the slack there even if we fuck up. And, it occurs to me, his seeing us exhausted from spending literally all our actions on Stirland's interests except the one that we're using to keep ourselves from being murdered by a ravening chaos beast is more likely to gain us points with him than anything else.


Based upon that logic, I will add the Asp action and mark the autopsy as an overwork action in a short while unless someone posts an objection.
 
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[x] Plan Turn This Castle Upside Down And Shake It

DarkLight140 said:
I actually think that's a really important action, because a well-chosen noble assistant is the kind of person who we can train up as full assistant spymaster and have handle a lot of different action types- after all, most Elector Counts' spymasters are likely to be other nobles so there's an archetype to play to there. I'm counting on that action to get us an actual reliable lieutenant and free up action slots for us in future turns, which is why I gave it the Ranald bonus. Putting it off means suffering under the same action crunch that we do now next turn as well, because the hired veterans provide useful new sources of information but aren't going to do much to lighten our load (I'm not buying @veekie's assertion that assigning them to already-controlled villages will improve or streamline results from those locations significantly).

I'm concerned that a critfail on servant interviews or backstory checking would lead to us marking servants as confirmed reliable when they're actually spies, which would be catastrophic. More so than, say, someone in the villages trying to stab us- although greatswords would ward against at least that avenue of failure.

I guess you're right that we could put it on the autopsy, since we'll have Van Hal to pick up the slack there even if we fuck up. And, it occurs to me, his seeing us exhausted from spending literally all our actions on Stirland's interests except the one that we're using to keep ourselves from being murdered by a ravening chaos beast is more likely to gain us points with him than anything else.


Based upon that logic, I will add the Asp action and mark the autopsy as an overwork action in a short while unless someone posts an objection.
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Thanks. Are you telling him about the Talabecland advisor now? We could just mention 'we heard it from our Master/Order in Altdorf' and... just leave off mentioning when we heard it.
 
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Amount of information reported and how those are presented really boils down to how we view the relationship between derp, Count, and Stirland by extension.

Is Mathilde using the job of spy master for self advancement and release from puppet status? Is she working for the betterment of Count and Stirland? Or is she going with the motions and moments?

Adding to these interests are how much trust and liberty derp allows Van. Does Mathilde view Van fully capable and able to digest the loose reports as is or if Van only have time to look at connected report and action suggestions.

TLDR: Are we going to hand hold Van in intrigue or if we are going lead him to our goal. :V
 
Alliterate said:
Thanks. Are you telling him about the Talabecland advisor now? We could just mention 'we heard it from our Master/Order in Altdorf' and... just leave off mentioning when we heard it.
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I am pretty busy at the moment so if you want a specific new line added to the vote please write it up and, if possible, provide links to where we got the relevant information being brought up to Van Hal so that I can sanity check. I have no objection to feeding Van Hal relevant intel that we have in principle.
 
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