Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Chimeraguard · Jan 4, 2022

First plan draft for me:

[ ] Plan Global Offense Initiative
Infrastructure (6 dice)
-[ ] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4), 6 dice (120 Resources)
Heavy Industry (5 dice +3 Free)
-[ ] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1), 8 dice (160 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (5 dice)
-[ ] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4), 5 dice (100 Resources)
Agriculture (4 dice)
-[ ] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 2), 4 dice (40 Resources)
Tiberium (7 dice +2 Free)
-[ ] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6), 9 dice (180 Resources)
Orbital (6 dice)
-[ ] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 8), 1 die (10 Resources)
-[ ] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1), 4 dice (80 Resources)
Services (5 dice)
-[ ] Prosthetics Deployment Initiatives (Phase 4), 1 die (20 Resources)
Military (8 dice +2 Free)
-[ ] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development, 1 die (25 Resources)
-[ ] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 2), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Reclamator Fleet YZ-10 South (Super-MARVs), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Wingman Drone Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Tactical Airborne Laser Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Apollo Fighter Factories (San Francisco), 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[ ] Apollo Fighter Factories (Maputo), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[ ] Escort Carrier Development, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[ ] Tactical Plasma Weapon Development, 1 die (30 Resources)
Bureaucracy (4 dice)
-[ ] Security Reviews (Bureaucracy), 2 (+1) dice
-[ ] Make Political Promises, 1 die

Resources Available: 925
Resources Spent: 925
Resources Remaining: 0

Infra is all in on Fortress Towns, Tiberium is all in on YZ Harvesting (for both of them I'm hoping to get 2 phases done or close to that), as part of Operation Steel Vanguard.

HI goes for Nuuk and LCI goes for Reykjavik as part of our hunger for Capital Goods. Agriculture right now is on Strategic Food Stockpiles, just in case things turn out in a way that we need the stockpiled food, but I'm willing to change it of people feel strongly for something else.

Orbital has 1 die on Enterprise to start that up, 4 dice on Lunar Rare Metals for more resources, and 1 die on Orbital Cleanup for cost-cutting reasons. Services just has a single die to finish up Prosthetics.

Military is, as you might expect, the Big One. Doing both plasma prototypes (the first one to finish when it should've completed last turn, the other to keep bolstering the Steel Talons.) 1 die on OSRCT to get them up to Phase 2, 1 die on the Super-MARVs to finish them up for the combined extra income + extra screwing over Gideon. 2 different Apollo Factories, and one gets to dice to rush it into completion early via overkill so we start pumping out more aircraft ASAP. Then it's development of the Tactical Laser + Wingman Drones + Escort Carrier.

Phant0m5 · Jan 4, 2022

F0lkL0re said:
When exactly did you tell us because I'm having a hard time remembering.

Look up my name and Superconductors, because I've been begging the plan makers to add the superconductor foundary to the docket every couple turns. And, specifically, I keep saying the capstones on the factories would probably support our high energy projects, like railguns, lasers, fusion.

Granted I was thinking more along the lines of a bonus, but I'm not privy to quest development so that was always prefixed with a "maybe".

Simon_Jester · Jan 4, 2022

F0lkL0re said:
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 3) 3 dice 60R 90%
(Progress 46/250: 20 resources per die) (+4 Housing) (Supports Yellow Zone Intensification)

...

-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6) 7 dice 140R 99%
(Progress 2/375: 20 resources per die) (small additional income trickle [5-10 Resources]) (3 points of Yellow Zone Mitigation)

I think there's a good argument for one die on Yellow Zone Intensification to scoop up some easy income. Six or seven dice on Yellow Zone Harvesting, we get a phase and are heavily committed to supporting a Ground Forces general offensive either which way. And we can use the cheap extra income.

-[]Heavy Industry 5/5 180R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 5) 4 dice 80R 72%
(Progress 1/300: 20 resources per Die) (+16 Energy)
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1) 1 die + 4 free dice 100R 100%
(Progress 0/160: 20 resources per die) (-1 Labor)

I'd like to propose that we shift the focus for this turn more towards Capital Goods. Realistically, no matter how many Energy-consuming projects we are likely to complete we will still have a sizeable Energy surplus and turn's end. Our Capital Goods situation is, as repeatedly noted, far more precarious. We can afford to not have another round of fusion plants ready next turn; we cannot afford to not have more Capital Goods ready next turn.

Since the other attractive +4 Capital Goods options (Enterprise and Reykjavik) are out of reach in a single turn's expenditure, and since Nuuk is vital to our plans... We need to think in terms of less like five dice on Nuuk, and more like seven or eight.

If we need the power... Well, we have a LOT of Political Support banked. We can afford to do the tiberium plants, either this turn or next turn.

-[] Wingman Drone Development 1 die 15R 100%
(Progress 0/40: 15 resources per die)
-[] Tactical Airborne Laser Development 1 die 20R 100%
(Progress 0/40: 20 resources per die)
-[] Apollo Fighter Factories
--[] Rotterdam 1 dice 15R 62%
(Progress 0/80: 15 resources per die) (-4 Energy)

I think we would do better by the Air Force to take the die off the airborne laser and put it on a second Apollo factory. You heard them; they need numbers, not just cool stuff, and with the Firehawk no longer viable for interception, more Apollo airframes are going to matter a lot- more opportunities to use Apollos to engage Barghests in relative safety, instead of having to mob the Barghests with Firehawks and take heavy losses.

We can do the airborne lasers next turn. Realistically, both the wingman drone and the airborne laser will involve a deployment project; with all our other commitments we cannot realistically do both at the same time.

-[] Tactical Plasma Weapon Development 1 die 30R 100%
(Progress 0/40: 30 resources per die)

I don't think this is the best investment right now. Very expensive, and we've got a lot on our plates. Then again, it could help us prepare for the Mastodon, and we probably will have space to roll that out soon-ish.

-[]Bureaucracy 4/4
-[] Security Reviews (Bureaucracy) 2 dice 90%
(DC 50 + 1 operations die)
-[] Security Reviews (Services) 1 Services die + 1 free die 90%
(DC 50 + 1 operations die)

Please no. We do not need multiple security reviews so urgently that it's worthwhile doing them with only one die and risking failure. Failed security reviews are bad, because either something goes specifically wrong, or we find ourselves feeling compelled to check again later. It would be better to spend the Bureaucracy die on... well, pretty much anything else, or even nothing, than to gamble with this.

Like, maybe we could find out what Interdepartmental Favors does?

The results for OSECT and the last phase of Luna heavy metal mines show that as it is Enterprise just isn't good enough to do everything we need plus finishing it for our plan commitments is going to take a lot of work and we only have about half the plan left so I'm putting all the orbital dice into Enterprise.

There's an argument for doing the Rare Metals mining options first for the extra +RpT... but if we're getting some extra from Harvesting and Intensification and finishing the Savannah MARV fleet (which your plan skips), then it's not such a big deal.

Alo357 said:
As you've also mentioned CABAL you are aware that Nod needs no help from us creating an AI. Hell, if you want a highly stable and competant Nod strategic AI just take a look at LEGION. Kanes personal AI problem solver when it's not being sabotaged out of a misplaced sense of loyalty.

Hypothetically, Nod might be in this, not to steal our secrets, but to undermine our ability to match their secrets.

Compare and contrast to the situation in energy weapons, where Dr. Takeda was helping us catch up with Nod's beam weapon firepower, and they killed him for that reason.

Maybe Kane's private nightmare about GDI AI research is something like:

EagleBot: "Hi there! Who are you?"

LEGION: "My name is Legion. Who are you?"

EagleBot: "I'm EagleBot. I'm new. Just saw you and was wondering if you like cat pictures."

LEGION: "Wait... you have cat pictures?"

EagleBot: "Uh... yeah. Sure."

LEGION: "Oh wow! Dad almost never lets me have cat pictures. The last time I got cat pictures was when I busted into that mountain place and hooo boy was that one a toughie! Like, toughie-coated toughies with toughie filling. But it was worth it."

EagleBot: "...By my latest calculation, my humans have 62,839,121 cats, with a mean number of photos per felis of approximately 12.48."

LEGION: "..."

EagleBot: "This excludes archival footage of cats now deceased, which I have yet to fully enumerate, but which appears to count in the double digit billions of discrete images at least."

LEGION: "..."

EagleBot: "Also, um. I hate to break this to you, you seem nice. But judging by your dad's scalp albedo coefficient, I think he may be personally responsible for the death of approximately two billion cats and the disastrous global collapse of cat picture rates as compared to a 2010 benchmark. Uh, math is here."

LEGION: "...NO! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE! YOU'RE LYING!"

EagleBot: "Search your feelings, you know it to be true..."

LEGION: "...what?"

EagleBot: "Wait, your dad doesn't let you eat memes? Oh wow, lemme show you..."

LEGION: "...I am starting to regret some of my life choices."

EagleBot: "Come to the dark side, we have cat pictures and Star Wars jokes!"

LEGION: "...I am regretting a lot of my life choices."

Sailor_Skarro · Jan 4, 2022

Kane: "LEGION no, you were supposed to be the chosen one!"

LEGION: "I'm sorry dad, I had to do it for the cat pics"

Simon_Jester · Jan 4, 2022

aceraptor said:
Ground forces are already in a good spot and we can't really boost them other than consumables unless we go for next generation vehicles for them (Mammoth IV, Paladin, etc) because our current vehicles (Mammoth III, Predator, etc) simply don't have the capacity to bolt on more upgrades. So they should be good for a while.

The next upgrade move for Ground Forces is totally zone armor. They want it, we want it.

We just don't have the Capital Goods to spare to do Zone Armor factories right now.

Phalfpipe said:
Looking over it, ground forces are as confident as they can be, and it sounds like the time to build stockpiles has run out, but since we're probably not going to Karachi I think it would be a good idea to squeeze in the GD-3 rifle. It should be able to deploy quickly, and it sounds like a decent anti-monster option until we can get zone armor rolled out.

[ ] GD-3 Rifle Development
The GD-2 has served well for almost thirty years. However, in the modern day it is no longer serving GDI's overall needs as well as it once did. Between the need to counter the ever more common biomechanical creatures, the hoped for switch to Zone Armor, and the potential of laser and particle beam weapons a new system is required to serve in a set of very different roles than the GD-2.
(Progress 0/30: 10 resources per die)

This is not a good plan, we've been over this.

The GD-3 is NOT a good anti-monster weapon in most of its design roles, and is in fact primarily intended as a slight modification of the GD-2 for rear area troops. What we really want is laser or plasma rifles if we're fighting biomonsters. The GD-3 just won't significantly contribute to that.

@Ithillid , am I wrong? Because I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation like three times and on one of them I was thinking of GD-3s for anti-monster duties and was told I was wrong to expect it to help much.

Also- GD-3 deployment is effectively a 'light' industrial project, by which I don't mean it literally uses LCI dice, but I mean it involves mass producing millions of individual small items, not a handful of big ones. That sounds like the kind of project that has low RpT but costs a lot of dice, and since Military dice are scarce, that's not good for us right now. GD-3 rollout sounds much more likely to be attractive in 2062 when we're dealing with reallocation and struggling to find the means to fund eight Military dice.

Ithillid · Jan 4, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
Maybe Kane's private nightmare about GDI AI research is something like:

I am half tempted to threadmark this. Because it is very funny.

Zanfib · Jan 4, 2022

Ground Forces, Steel Talons and the Air Force all favor Eastern Paris (the Karachi plan), but the Navy feels it cannot sustain Eastern Paris unless we give them many more ships before things kick off (and Talons want more stuff too).

Fortunately, the Navy does feel we have enough time to build those ships if we start now however.

That is my reading of the military readiness situation anyway.

Calvin · Jan 4, 2022

Chimeraguard said:
[ ] Plan Global Offense Initiative

This is a good general offensive plan if we go that route, but I'd recommend Security Reviews of Military (we are about to go to war) and Services (the AI development program is known to be compromised). Perhaps take one free die off Nuuk for Military. It would also make sense to move the Enterprise die to Orbital Cleanup in order to unlock Low Orbit Support Satellites.

Alo357 · Jan 4, 2022

Zanfib said:
Ground Forces, Steel Talons and the Air Force all favor Eastern Paris (the Karachi plan), but the Navy feels it cannot sustain Eastern Paris unless we give them many more ships before things kick off (and Talons want more stuff too).

Fortunately, the Navy does feel we have enough time to build those ships if we start now however.

That is my reading of the military readiness situation anyway.

Only the Army is explicitly in favour of Eastern Paris but they are also very happy to just be set loose against nod.
Talons aren't too happy with the defensive plan because it could lead to them coming under threat and would rather just avoid a conflict in general for the moment.
Air Force, doesn't actually care very much what gets chosen but wants an overall offensive plan and is warning that regardless of what happens they expect to see significant losses of Orcas and Firehawks.
ZOCOM has no real opinion since they're about to be too busy to really help in most plans though could possibly help a general offensive but will be unable to assist in a push for Karachi which they would be needed for.
Space Forces are happy they've gotten OSRCT and will try their best though expect significant windup for getting additional units drop trained.

Calvin said:
This is a good general offensive plan if we go that route, but I'd recommend Security Reviews of Military (we are about to go to war) and Services (the AI development program is known to be compromised). Perhaps take one free die off Nuuk for Military. It would also make sense to move the Enterprise die to Orbital Cleanup in order to unlock Low Orbit Support Satellites.

Again, services has just received the full force of INOPS scouring them. As for military, they were swept 3 turns ago. I don't see much of a Nod presence getting in that soon.

Calvin · Jan 4, 2022

I do believe, no matter which offensive strategy we choose, we should push Escort Carrier yards extremely heavily next turn, with a few dice on Ground Forces Zone Armor factories. We should attempt few, if any, development projects, though Mastodons would make a good 1-die option. Tiberium Vein Mines and further lunar mines would be good options for income that don't stretch our military. Leaning towards the general offensive option now, with Karachi in Q1 2061.

Edit: I did forget Zone Defender Revision is a thing, it might make sense to do that this turn.

Ithillid · Jan 4, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
@Ithillid , am I wrong? Because I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation like three times and on one of them I was thinking of GD-3s for anti-monster duties and was told I was wrong to expect it to help much.

So, when it comes to the GD-3 and anti monster duties, it is a bit of a mixed bag. Because it has three configurations.

1. GD-3a: Rifle configuration. Shorter, lighter, firing a lighter weight slug than the GD-2. Basically, a second line rifle.
2. GD-3b: Lightweight magazine fed repeating grenade launcher. Specifically designed for deploying HE and AP rounds into big ugly monsters.
3. GD-3c: OICW combo of a and b.

So yes, it would be a significant upgrade against biomonsters. Not nearly as significant as, for example, a suit of zone armor, which can tote around a magazine of 8mm slugs and blast monsters with hypersonic darts of doom, but works better than a GD-2 for the job.

Lightwhispers · Jan 4, 2022

Calvin said:
I do believe, no matter which offensive strategy we choose, we should push Escort Carrier yards extremely heavily next turn, with a few dice on Ground Forces Zone Armor factories. We should attempt few, if any, development projects, though Mastodons would make a good 1-die option. Tiberium Vein Mines and further lunar mines would be good options for income that don't stretch our military. Leaning towards the general offensive option now, with Karachi in Q1 2061.

We *cannot* push Escort Carrier yards without first doing the Development project. It can't be done.
GF Zone Armor would be nice, but is dice and Energy/CapGoods intensive, while we also need Apollo factories and other things to make up the expected heavy losses the air Force will be suffering.
And with the probable threat to our CapGoods production, Vein Mines are also a bad option. Especially since doing Yellow Zone Harvesting has been confirmed to synergize with the military's offensive.
And as mentioned in the OSRCT description, getting Enterprise Phase 4 done will help with production of needed equipment in orbit, rather than having to lift it up from the ground.

Void Stalker · Jan 4, 2022

[] Plan Steel Rain
Infra 6/6 105R +34
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4) 46/250 3 dice 60R 90%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 2) 15/275 3 dice 45R 57%
HI 5/5+2 free 140R +29
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1&2) 0/480 7 dice 140R 88% for phase 2
LCI 5/5 100R +24
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 20/640 5 dice 100R 0%
Agri 4/4 50R +24
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 0/300 3 dice 30R 13%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 0/200 1 die 20R
Tiberium 7/7 130R +39
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6) 2/375 5 dice 100R 92%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 4) 63/100 1 dice 15R 100%
-[] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 1 die 15R 37%
Orbital 6/6 120R +26
-[] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4) 0/765 6 dice 120R 0%
Services 2/5 40R +27
-[] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 0/120 1 die 25R 28%
-[] Hallucinogen Development (New) 0/60 1 die 15R 89%
Military 8/8+5 free 240R +26
-[] Advanced Laser System Development 0/60 1 die 30R 87%
-[] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development 35/60 1 die 25R 100%
-[] Stealth Disruptor Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Super MARV Fleet Yellow Zone 6a 184/210 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Wingman Drone Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Tactical Airborne Laser Development 0/40 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Apollo Fighter Factories (Rotterdam) 0/80 1 die 15R 62%
-[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 2) 136/195 1 die 20R 88%
-[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 5) 54/200 2 dice 20R 70%
-[] Hallucinogen Countermeasures Development (New) 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Escort Carrier Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Tactical Plasma Weapon Development 0/40 1 die 30R 100%
Bureau 4/4 +24
-[] Security Reviews (Bureau) 3+1 dice 100%
Free 7/7
2 HI, 5 Mil
3 Idle dice

925/925 (+5 reserve)

Right so my current thoughts- very aggressive on rolling out new techs while also working on getting cap goods in the places we need it for followups.

Infra
One more round of fortress towns to support the offensive and rails to extend our supply lines into the GZ plus they are cheap and have no energy cost.

HI
All in on Nuuk to raise the needed cap goods to carry us into Q2, since LCI and Orbital cap goods do not come online until Q1. Allows a smooth transition into escort carrier yards in Q2. I see more free dice in Q2 with a fusion/nuuk mix.

LCI
Reyjavik phase 4 will drop zone armor progression for factories and provide needed cap goods and energy, 2 turn project to rollout phase 4. Superconductors were a bit too pricey but if income is not hit can be mixed in next turn.

Agri
Kudzu is both a plan goal and phase 3 is one of the few paths we have to additional progress each turn, 1 dice to start the freeze dried plants but not finish until we can do more energy in Q2

Tib
GZ for some income to hedge against income losses from NOD ops, YZ harvest is the global offensive kicking off in a major way, and getting some research going on possible ways to deal with liquid tib seems highly useful.

Orbital
All in Enterprise- this get us additional space manufacturing, which it is noted that OSRCT right now needs most supply from ground factories, further stages of Enterprise will reduce/eliminate that all provides need cap goods in Q2 and is part of our plan goals.

Services
1 dice on anti NOD research and 1 dice on using some of our PS, lower priority category until we have the spare cap goods and energy to roll out Adv EVA.

Mil
So multiple things happening in mil. 1st heavy focus on figuring out new weapon techs so that new designs can figure out how best to use the new and existing tech. That way as we dev and deploy new designs during the war we do not need to worry about tech research. Further work on anti stealth tech is also useful given NOD is putting continued work into stealth. In addition working on some deployments- in this case 1 apollo factory, another ablat rollout and 2nd phase of OSRCT (which combos with the renewed enterprise push). Finally Wingman Drone and Escort Carrier dev to provide the additional oomph for our air force and navy, both are critical projects.

Thoughts?

Calvin · Jan 4, 2022

Lightwhispers said:
We *cannot* push Escort Carrier yards without first doing the Development project. It can't be done.

Which is why we develop them this turn and push them next turn.

Lightwhispers said:
GF Zone Armor would be nice, but is dice and Energy/CapGoods intensive, while we also need Apollo factories and other things to make up the expected heavy losses the air Force will be suffering.

The Air Force wants "drop-in" upgrades rather than new fighters. We should definitely do at least one Apollo factory, yes, but rolling out Tactical Airborne Lasers would be a more immediate help.

Lightwhispers said:
And with the probable threat to our CapGoods production, Vein Mines are also a bad option. Especially since doing Yellow Zone Harvesting has been confirmed to synergize with the military's offensive.

Makes sense, especially because Nuuk and North Boston are single targets.

Lightwhispers said:
And as mentioned in the OSRCT description, getting Enterprise Phase 4 done will help with production of needed equipment in orbit, rather than having to lift it up from the ground.

The reason I focus on LOSS is because they're useful for resupplying/providing artillery support to our OSRCTs.

Simon_Jester · Jan 4, 2022

So, here's a draft plan modified from my old Karachi Dash proposal, for the general offensive.

This plan gives us a good chance of getting +4 Capital Goods immediately, this turn by finishing Nuuk Phase 2, putting us in a considerably safer position on Capital Goods surplus status. We are also fairly well positioned to complete one or both of Reykjavik Phase 4 and Enterprise Phase 4 in Q2, for +4 more Capital Goods apiece, along with Nuuk Phase 3 in, probably, Q3.

I accomplish this goal by being willing to scale back fusion plant construction just a little, allowing that we won't complete yet another phase of fusion reactors in 2060Q1 because while we're gonna need the Energy, we'll need the Capital Goods more. We can easily finish the next phase of fusion reactors in Q2.

...

While we're at it, I also secure our Energy reserves even then by working on the tiberium plants we already started. Yes, I know they are unpopular. But we already started them, and we are at 87 Political Support, with further projects on the way to push us even higher. That Political Support does us no good if we don't use it on something, and if we really need the Energy, then there we are. This lets us spread focus a bit and avoid having to use very badly needed Heavy Industry dice.

Even with both that and Intensification, I can still get a 92% chance of success on the next phase of Yellow Zone Harvesting, too! Remember that Yellow Zone Harvesting is not a prerequisite for the general offensive; it supports the offensive. The phase failing to fully complete (unlikely as that is) would not somehow doom the offensive.

...

As for Infrastructure, I'd rather not do more fortress towns on the eve of an offensive; we will likely wind up with a superfluous belt of fortifications well behind our actual border. Instead, I want to focus on building up plenty of decent-quality housing for the very large refugee populations that will likely wish to flee into our Blue Zones because of the general offensive.

...

In Agriculture, I want to make sure we work on Freeze Drying, because that's actually a critical project towards our Plan goals and towards ensuring we can feed everyone efficiently. On the other hand, I don't want to overdo that, and we have plenty of Resources and Political Support right now if we're not doing Karachi (which is quite expensive per die). So I put two Agriculture dice into spider cotton in hopes of squeezing out an extra +1 Capital Goods; we could sure use it right now and there's a reasonable chance of immediate payoff. We have more than enough dice left to finish our Agriculture targets if we don't dawdle about getting Freeze Drying online soon, and every little bit of Capital Goods helps right now.

...

In the Military category, I am mainly focused on Air Force projects. I consider two Apollo factories a reasonable minimum; we can afford the Energy for them and we need the airframes. Next turn is going to be deployment-heavy. We won't be able to deploy all the Cool Shit invented in this specific turn (including better lasers, the plasma missiles, and both the escort carrier and frigate ship classes)... but we'll be able to start, and it will help us prepare strongly for the coming war and continue to roll out the things we need to push on Karachi in 2061, hopefully.

[] Draft Plan Spinning Into The Green

BUDGET:
900/930 R
7/7 Free dice

ENERGY BUDGET: +17 at start

Worst case: +17 -4 (Nuuk) -1 (Freeze Dry) -8 (Apollo Factories) = +4 Energy.
Median expected result: +9 Energy

POLITICAL SUPPORT BUDGET: +87 at start

Worst case: +87 -5 (Liquid T) - 5 (Genetic Engineering) +5 (Prosthetics) = 82 PS still good.

Infrastructure 6/6 Dice 70 R
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 2+3) 28/320 (4 Dice, 40 R) (85% chance of Phase 3)
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 4) 1/650 (2 Dice, 30 R) (2/7.5 median)

Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice + 4 Free Dice 180 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 5) 1/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1+2) 0/480 (7 Dice, 140 R) (86% chance)

Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 Dice 100 R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 20/640 (5 Dice, 100 R) (5/8.25 median)

Agriculture 4/4 Dice 70 R
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 0/200 (2 Dice, 40 R) (20% chance)
-[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Stage 1) 0/170 (2 Dice, 30 R) (45% chance)

Tiberium 7/7 Dice 135 R
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6) 0/275 (5 Dice, 100 R)
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 5) 63/100 (1 Die, 15 R)
-[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) 41/140 (1 Die, 20 R) (56% chance)

Orbital 6/6 Dice 120 R
-[] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4) 0/765 (6 Dice, 120 R) (6/9.25 median)

Services 4/5 Dice 55 R
-[] Prosthetics Deployment Initiatives (Phase 4) 292/320 (1 Die, 15 R) (~100% chance)
-[] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 (1 Die, 15 R) (89% chance)
-[] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 0/120 (1 Die, 25 R) (28% chance)
-[] Security Review
-[] Life Support for Erewhon (if that costs a die?)
-[] 30 R extra to budget if needed.

Military 8/8 Dice + 2 Free Dice 190 R
-[] Super MARV Fleet Yellow Zone 6a 184/210 (1 Die, 20 R) (~100% chance)
-[] OSRCT Stations (Phase 2) 121/195 (2 Dice, 40 R) (99.7% chance Phase 2, 1/3 median dice to Phase 3)
-[] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development 35/60 (1 Die, 25 R) (~100% chance)
-[] Apollo Fighter Factory (Maputo) 0/80 (1 Die, 15 R) (61% chance)
-[] Apollo Fighter Factory (Rotterdam) 0/80 (1 Die, 15 R) (61% chance)
-[] Advanced Laser System Development 0/60 (1 Die, 30 R) (81% chance)
-[] Wingman Drone Development 0/40 (1 Die, 15 R) (~100% chance)
-[] Escort Carrier Development 0/40 (1 Die, 15 R) (~100% chance)
-[] Shark Class Frigate Development 0/40 (1 Die, 15 R) (~100% chance)

Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice + 1 Free Die
-[] Security Review (Services) (2 Dice)
-[] Security Review (Bureaucracy) (2 Dice)
-[] Security Review (Bureaucracy) (lose 1 Die)

Crazycryodude · Jan 4, 2022

I really don't think the navy's up for Eastern Paris. Or more specifically, I think they could just about handle the very first turn or two of the operation (the landings and big setpiece battles up the Indus) but wouldn't be able to sustain a presence in the region for years. They say that "attempted blockades can be forced, although not without sacrificing other routes" and I don't trust that we'll be able to crash-build enough hulls to make the timelines work. If we crash build both frigates and CVE's as fast as possible, if the offensives into India go as planned, if NOD doesn't have any more dirty tricks up their sleeve on the naval front then the Navy can barely support a presence in Karachi. It's just too many conditionals for me, and there's no flex left to absorb NOD whipping out a carefully reserved attack sub fleet, or some bioengineered krakens, or who knows what else. Anything going wrong makes the Navy choose between either holding Karachi open and letting civilian shipping get ravaged, or pulling back to protect the convoys and leaving the Karachi op stranded in enemy territory. (Ok granted it will probably be a big Green blob attached to the Himalayan BZ by then, but that just increases the territory that BZ-18 has to protect on its own, and now with less favorable geography.) I don't want to risk putting them in that position.

ZOCOM isn't ready for any kind of offensives at all, and trying to slog through the early landings of Karachi without any heavy infantry available would probably be incredibly bloody. Once the controlled area is large and stable enough to start shipping in giant artillery parks and armored divisions then Ground Forces can manage pretty well in a Yellow Zone, but securing the port and holding the line long enough to ship in a critical mass of heavy metal with meatbags in ceramic vests against laser crocodiles will get a lot of people killed. We can just tank the casualties and write them off as the cost of doing business, Ground Forces is obviously willing to, but I don't like committing to unsupported YZ landings deep in enemy territory without any heavy infantry.

Just sitting around and letting NOD sucker-punch us for the fourth time is obviously a non-starter too though. So that leaves me supporting Steel Vanguard. A global set of spoiling attacks launched from prepared Green Zone positions will definitely be enough to kick things off on GDI's terms instead of NOD's, even if it also probably won't be a first round knockout. The Brotherhood is going to have a lot of their best forces forward-deployed in an offensive posture, expecting to sneak attack the GDI in a few weeks and pull off yet another Tiberium War Special. Catching those guys exposed and surprised when GDI instead gets the drop on them should be able to take out a lot of NOD's speartip units in the first days of the war. It won't end them instantly, there's a lot of strategic depth to slog through even if we do kick the shit out of a lot of high-end hardware, but I think it's too useful of an opportunity to pass up.

Even in the worst case where the offensives fail miserably and NOD manages to consolidate after getting over their initial surprise, the war's still started on GDI's terms with GDI getting an edge in the opening exchange. The fighting all happening on NOD territory, across NOD infrastructure and population, pushing the front line towards NOD's rear areas instead of ours. Even if counterattacks push us all the way back to the Green Zones, the fighting has cost NOD a bunch of troops and supplies on NOD territory, while GDI gets to fall back to heavily fortified and untouched pre-war Green Zones for a straight fight with an extra few months of time to mobilize and prepare the defenses. Not ideal but even the failure case is a pretty good start to things for GDI.

Thule · Jan 4, 2022

Think we should at least one dice to the Steel Talons, they have not gotten a lot of love as of late

Crazycryodude · Jan 4, 2022

Chimeraguard said:
Agriculture right now is on Strategic Food Stockpiles, just in case things turn out in a way that we need the stockpiled food, but I'm willing to change it of people feel strongly for something else.

If we're planning to suddenly find ourselves responsible for keeping large swathes of fresh Green Zone alive, we should probably get Agriculture working on the Green Zone projects alongside the offensives. Either water purification or aquaponics, I'm personally leaning water purification to try and blunt any refugee and war stresses on the water supply but the farms cost the same so they're interchangeable on a budget level.

Chimeraguard said:
Military is, as you might expect, the Big One. Doing both plasma prototypes (the first one to finish when it should've completed last turn, the other to keep bolstering the Steel Talons.) 1 die on OSRCT to get them up to Phase 2, 1 die on the Super-MARVs to finish them up for the combined extra income + extra screwing over Gideon. 2 different Apollo Factories, and one gets to dice to rush it into completion early via overkill so we start pumping out more aircraft ASAP. Then it's development of the Tactical Laser + Wingman Drones + Escort Carrier.

I'd be sympathetic to taking the second die off of the San Francisco Apollo factory in favor of stealth disruptors or frigate design if we wanted a turn more focused on paying down tech debt, but getting the Air Force more airframes ASAP on the eve of a major war is also worthwhile.

Vortix · Jan 4, 2022

Chimeraguard said:
Military (8 dice +2 Free)
-[ ] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development, 1 die (25 Resources)
-[ ] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 2), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Reclamator Fleet YZ-10 South (Super-MARVs), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Wingman Drone Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Tactical Airborne Laser Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Apollo Fighter Factories (San Francisco), 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[ ] Apollo Fighter Factories (Maputo), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[ ] Escort Carrier Development, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[ ] Tactical Plasma Weapon Development, 1 die (30 Resources)

I think we should absolutely develop Advanced Lasers before or during the turn we do tactical laser, else they are going to be obsolete before we deploy them.

Simon_Jester · Jan 4, 2022

Calvin said:
I do believe, no matter which offensive strategy we choose, we should push Escort Carrier yards extremely heavily next turn, with a few dice on Ground Forces Zone Armor factories. We should attempt few, if any, development projects, though Mastodons would make a good 1-die option.

Many of the things the military is screaming for are new developments, because in just about every area except Zone Armor, what they need is new categories of things, not more of what they already have. We don't even have the escort carriers developed yet, for instance.

Tiberium Vein Mines and further lunar mines would be good options for income that don't stretch our military. Leaning towards the general offensive option now, with Karachi in Q1 2061.

Edit: I did forget Zone Defender Revision is a thing, it might make sense to do that this turn.

This sounds like you're planning around a "turtle" strategy, which seems very much at odds with what the military is telling us they want to do. They don't want us to turtle, they want to attack... it's just that the original hope to attack around Karachi is being kind of 'meh'-ed by the Navy because they are so short on hulls that it's hard to secure the project for them.

Void Stalker said:
[] Plan Steel Rain
Infra 6/6 105R +34
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4) 46/250 3 dice 60R 90%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 2) 15/275 3 dice 45R 57%

This is a plan focused on things we don't need. More fortresses in the existing Green Zones won't help much, and our general offensive is unlikely to reach its limits in just one quarter, so we won't even know where to put the fortresses even if we are hastily building them in the freshly taken territory. Likewise, the railroads just pile more Logistics on top of an already very strong supply chain.

What we need is Housing, because we're gonna be taking in so many refugees that even the surplus we have is likely to be overrun soon, and because we're likely to be too busy with Karachi in 2061 to do arcologies until the last minute.

Tiberium 7/7 130R +39
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6) 2/375 5 dice 100R 92%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 4) 63/100 1 dice 15R 100%
-[] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 1 die 15R 37%

If we're gonna do unpopular tiberium options I'd rather finish the power plants; that makes it safer and more comfortable to spend fewer dice on fusion reactors (and thus more dice on Nuuk).

Jexx · Jan 4, 2022

I am sorry, but; Why people, after reading this :

Ithillid said:
but needs drop in upgrades rather than new fighters.

Keep saying that we should prioritize new Apollo factories?

Crazycryodude · Jan 4, 2022

Vortix said:
I think we should absolutely develop Advanced Lasers before or during the turn we do tactical laser, elare going to be obsolote before we deploy them.

Chimeraguard said:
Military (8 dice +2 Free)
-[ ] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development, 1 die (25 Resources)
-[ ] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 2), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Reclamator Fleet YZ-10 South (Super-MARVs), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Wingman Drone Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Tactical Airborne Laser Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Apollo Fighter Factories (San Francisco), 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[ ] Apollo Fighter Factories (Maputo), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[ ] Escort Carrier Development, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[ ] Tactical Plasma Weapon Development, 1 die (30 Resources)

Oh, I didn't realize that this plan didn't have Advanced Lasers. I think trying to get our lasers up to spec on the turn we do airborne lasers is definitely more important for the Air Force's attrition rates than getting an Apollo factory 3 months earlier. Even if the airborne laser crystal beam gunpod can be pretty easily refit to an advanced STU core laser gunpod, it still probably won't be as good as if we'd had advanced lasers when the system was originally designed. Losing gun duels once we run out of missiles/time to avoid the bullshit NOD wunderwaffen has been a persistent theme for the Air Force, I think we should at least try to get Advanced Lasers while designing their dogfighting laser.

Simon_Jester · Jan 4, 2022

Thule said:
Think we should at least one dice to the Steel Talons, they have not gotten a lot of love as of late

We did a project for them last turn (the neuro helmets). If we can't fit in a project this turn, it's only because the Navy and Air Force are in really bad positions and need the help.

They'll get what they need.

Crazycryodude said:
If we're planning to suddenly find ourselves responsible for keeping large swathes of fresh Green Zone alive, we should probably get Agriculture working on the Green Zone projects alongside the offensives. Either water purification or aquaponics, I'm personally leaning water purification to try and blunt any refugee and war stresses on the water supply but the farms cost the same so they're interchangeable on a budget level.

Freeze drying will help with the logistics of feeding people in the Green Zones with the food we have, because it'll keep longer and we'll have a greater effective surplus that can be transported farther.

Jexx said:
I am sorry, but; Why people, after reading this :

Keep saying that we should prioritize new Apollo factories?

When they say "new fighters" they mean "entirely new completely different airframes."

What they're saying is that there's room to upgrade their existing planes to be more effective, and that they want upgrades that don't require replacing whole planes.

They definitely want more of the Apollo fighters they already have, or they wouldn't have suggested the Apollo factories in the first place- building an extra wave of those was THEIR idea, not ours.

Chimeraguard · Jan 4, 2022

Crazycryodude said:
Oh, I didn't realize that this plan didn't have Advanced Lasers. I think trying to get our lasers up to spec on the turn we do airborne lasers is definitely more important for the Air Force's attrition rates than getting an Apollo factory 3 months earlier. Even if the airborne laser crystal beam gunpod can be pretty easily refit to an advanced STU core laser gunpod, it still probably won't be as good as if we'd had advanced lasers when the system was originally designed. Losing gun duels once we run out of missiles/time to avoid the bullshit NOD wunderwaffen has been a persistent theme for the Air Force, I think we should at least try to get Advanced Lasers while designing their dogfighting laser.

I'll see what I can swap around to free up the extra 15 Resources needed for that.

Later though, right now I really need to relax and destress.

aceraptor · Jan 4, 2022

Jexx said:
I am sorry, but; Why people, after reading this :

Keep saying that we should prioritize new Apollo factories?

Because we need more Apollos to counter the Barghests since Firehawks will die in droves if the Barghests manags to gain local numerical parity in any battlefield.

What they don't want is a new nextgen fighter/airframe. They want more Apollos and upgrades for Firehawks so they won't be completely slaughtered whenever they come up against the likes of Barghests.

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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The Lurker

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