- Location
- The Underdark
You don't. Canonically, it was more like thirty.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh thank god, we're saved. The Vulcans will meddle if we ask for help. We're saved....
Yeah, these aliens screwed us over,l with their first contact, but you're here now. That's all that matters.
Heh, yeah. We're having trouble. But we're trying.
Nothing a little Vulcan philosophy won't fix. Just you come on down and teach us, and they'll be much more logical, just you wait.
Yeah, Kane and Nod are a problem. Once they're gone, humanity will he so much better off. That's why you're here, right?
Wait, don't leave. We need you. Please help us...the Tiberium is killing us.
Guys? You're coming back, right? We'll totally embrace Surakian logic if you take us with you.
Guys?
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Okay but really, fuck these guys. At least when the Mass Effect races encountered dying races they tried to help. They usually didn't help enough or it really, really backfired, but they tried.
Wow, you're right, it was almost exactly 30 years since humanity came into contact with the council that everything went downhill with a swiftness with Mass Effect 3. And it was only ten years before that when humanity found Eezo in 2147.
It was the books the expanded the timeline from a few decades to hundreds of years.
Edit: Found the race that was found after humanity.
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Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
Star Trek has had a problem with that since at least Next Generation, not sure if it was present in the Original Series.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Vulcan policy is that we have to officially ask for help before they intervene. Or at this time to prevent Andorian or other races from using said locals as proxies.
And even then, it's a decision they weigh on before deciding to intervene.
If this were canon, we'd probably have to fund a project to send out the equivalent of a distress call in orbit, asking for their assistance. Response would be due to rolls. Vulcans answering would be a critical success. Getting someone like the Cardassians or the Ferengi would probably be a failure. And the Andorians would be somewhere in the middle.
Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
We aren't NOD, we're GDI.Ferengi wouldn't be a failure. You could sell them some of this automated mining tech for their warp drive. Including a totally working remote off button for the green stuff. Pinky promise
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- It/Them
Indeed, NOD would make the button explode when pressed.
1)If you go back to read the Enduring Victory update, the original flotilla of Carryalls were originally believed to have come from transport bases in South America, a distance of some ten thousand km just from Rio to Los Angeles.
This wasnt considered an unusual ability by GDI. I quote:
Battle of Los Angeles (21 v 14)
On the morning of October 9, 2052, one of the largest NOD air flotillas ever seen was spotted out at sea closing towards the Tiberium infested ruins of Los Angeles. A flight of Apollo fighters, of VF 332 lead by captain Harold Mannock, effectively ran into the flotilla on a long range training patrol. Large air flotillas were nothing new. With the expansion of GDI's power into the Yellow Zones, the Carryall had become an increasingly large part of NOD's logistics, and so required large convoys to be relatively safe on the hundreds or thousands of kilometer flights to resupply various NOD bases. The first indication of something being wrong was a new type of aircraft in NOD's arsenal. A variant of a Venom, it carried air to air missiles, clearly derivatives of those carried by the Stealth Tank of the era, but packed as twins instead of tens. While it would be seen in future combats for decades to come, it was one of the models first seen above Los Angeles. While most of the force was typical for the NOD arsenals of the Third Tiberium War, Venoms armed with either machine guns or laser weaponry, there were a handful of these new units.
The flotilla was initially thought to be a deep penetration resupply run for NOD operations across the west and midwest, operating from transport bases somewhere in South America. However, it proved, in records captured during Operation Dawn Star, to be the primary convoy for the Marked of Kane to the Battle of Cheyenne Mountain. While an intelligence failure for INOPS, the initiative was lucky to be able to find the force at all. NOD had proved both before and after to be preternaturally good at avoiding patrols and slipping through radar nets.
Captain Mannock lead his men in what would become one of the signature moves of the Appollo fighter, a fast, head on attack through the center of the enemy formation. Slashing in behind a wave of missiles, Mannock claimed three kills, a small portion of the twenty that his flight brought down. Calling for reinforcements, the officers in command initially did not believe him, although they did vector in a group of Firehawks for confirmation. While two of the four did get shot down, they accounted for six Venoms, and radioed confirmation to local airbases, prompting a more full scale response. As the morning continued flight after flight was vectored in, fed piecemeal into the action as the NOD aircraft were not meaningfully delayed. There were never enough missiles, never enough aircraft to meaningfully punch through into the combat boxes that had been established around the transports. Rather than breaking to engage, the vast majority of the formation remained in formation, and focused their efforts on getting out of the battlespace. While some missiles did leak through, it was rarely enough to actually bring down a carryall, with their four redundant rotors.
Having expended his munitions, Mannock returned to base, and was one of the few flight leaders to be able to make two engagement runs. Closing in on the tail of the formation, Mannock's flight downed three Carryalls and a further half dozen Venoms, making Mannnock a triple ace, and bringing two others of his flight aces in their own right.
In the late morning, GDI forces broke contact as the available fighters had expended their munitions, and were low on fuel. While losses for the Initiative were far lighter than the Brotherhood, the Brotherhood did manage to achieve their objective and pass through the battlespace. The Initiative made no real further efforts to conduct interception. With the contact broken, NOD forces would be able to be over the horizon in any direction before any GDI forces could return.
In total, the Initiative sent some sixty Firehawks and sixteen Apollos to fight the air battle over Los Angeles. While the casualties were incredibly lopsided, six Firehawks and two Apollos downed and four pilots recovered, compared to over a hundred NOD aircraft, the limitations of the technology were on full display. While capable of inflicting absolutely lopsided casualties, Initiative air forces, like during the Third Tiberium War, were oftentimes unable to prevent NOD from completing its objectives.
On the morning of October 9, 2052, one of the largest NOD air flotillas ever seen was spotted out at sea closing towards the Tiberium infested ruins of Los Angeles. A flight of Apollo fighters, of VF 332 lead by captain Harold Mannock, effectively ran into the flotilla on a long range training patrol. Large air flotillas were nothing new. With the expansion of GDI's power into the Yellow Zones, the Carryall had become an increasingly large part of NOD's logistics, and so required large convoys to be relatively safe on the hundreds or thousands of kilometer flights to resupply various NOD bases. The first indication of something being wrong was a new type of aircraft in NOD's arsenal. A variant of a Venom, it carried air to air missiles, clearly derivatives of those carried by the Stealth Tank of the era, but packed as twins instead of tens. While it would be seen in future combats for decades to come, it was one of the models first seen above Los Angeles. While most of the force was typical for the NOD arsenals of the Third Tiberium War, Venoms armed with either machine guns or laser weaponry, there were a handful of these new units.
The flotilla was initially thought to be a deep penetration resupply run for NOD operations across the west and midwest, operating from transport bases somewhere in South America. However, it proved, in records captured during Operation Dawn Star, to be the primary convoy for the Marked of Kane to the Battle of Cheyenne Mountain. While an intelligence failure for INOPS, the initiative was lucky to be able to find the force at all. NOD had proved both before and after to be preternaturally good at avoiding patrols and slipping through radar nets.
Captain Mannock lead his men in what would become one of the signature moves of the Appollo fighter, a fast, head on attack through the center of the enemy formation. Slashing in behind a wave of missiles, Mannock claimed three kills, a small portion of the twenty that his flight brought down. Calling for reinforcements, the officers in command initially did not believe him, although they did vector in a group of Firehawks for confirmation. While two of the four did get shot down, they accounted for six Venoms, and radioed confirmation to local airbases, prompting a more full scale response. As the morning continued flight after flight was vectored in, fed piecemeal into the action as the NOD aircraft were not meaningfully delayed. There were never enough missiles, never enough aircraft to meaningfully punch through into the combat boxes that had been established around the transports. Rather than breaking to engage, the vast majority of the formation remained in formation, and focused their efforts on getting out of the battlespace. While some missiles did leak through, it was rarely enough to actually bring down a carryall, with their four redundant rotors.
Having expended his munitions, Mannock returned to base, and was one of the few flight leaders to be able to make two engagement runs. Closing in on the tail of the formation, Mannock's flight downed three Carryalls and a further half dozen Venoms, making Mannnock a triple ace, and bringing two others of his flight aces in their own right.
In the late morning, GDI forces broke contact as the available fighters had expended their munitions, and were low on fuel. While losses for the Initiative were far lighter than the Brotherhood, the Brotherhood did manage to achieve their objective and pass through the battlespace. The Initiative made no real further efforts to conduct interception. With the contact broken, NOD forces would be able to be over the horizon in any direction before any GDI forces could return.
In total, the Initiative sent some sixty Firehawks and sixteen Apollos to fight the air battle over Los Angeles. While the casualties were incredibly lopsided, six Firehawks and two Apollos downed and four pilots recovered, compared to over a hundred NOD aircraft, the limitations of the technology were on full display. While capable of inflicting absolutely lopsided casualties, Initiative air forces, like during the Third Tiberium War, were oftentimes unable to prevent NOD from completing its objectives.
If they were non-standard models, that would probably have been worthy of comment. Just like the new Venom variants encountered in that battle were explicitly called out.
2) Im not disputing that Nod uses Tiberium liberally for power purposes in power plants and vehicles.
Im not even disputing they might use it in some aircraft.
I am disputing they use it in the Carryall. Because WE invented the Carryall.
The Orca Carryall was originally a GDI design that Nod adopted and tweaked, is characterized as a cheap air transport, and we started building it again for domestic use back in 2054 with some changes.
We are thoroughly familiar with what it can do because we built it.
The data is there IC if you look. To quote the QM about our escort losses during TibWar3:
We obviously have some left, but we're looking at both inadequate numbers and equipment thats probably impossible to upgrade, because of space and power requirements of the new equipment. We have the same issue with our tanks having hit the limits of their upgradeability.Discord 24Sep2021 said:
And carriers require escorts, else they are juicy targets for air and underwater attack
Building more escort carriers increases the demands for escorts capable of protecting them, and we dont have all that many cruisers after providing escorts for the supercarriers and battleships.
Fair enough.
My apologies, I thought I made that clear.
1) We should be able to get frigates into service faster than escort carriers.
Previous experience indicates that it took eighteen months after the first cruiser shiyard was built before the first cruisers entered service. The smallest proposed escort carrier design is around twice the displacement of a Governor cruiser, so it makes sense to suspect that construction times will be at least as long in the beginning, barring any fabrication innovations.
By comparison, frigates are likely to be around half the mass of a Governor cruiser, which we can reasonably expect to translate to faster build times and more parallel shipbuilding lines than a cruiser yard, even if it isnt a directly proportional relationship.
2) We plan to build WAY more frigates than carriers.
Tentative inquiries on Discord was that the Navy wants 240 frigates, which matches up with the QM's previous mention of 200 frigates on this thread.
Navy's blanksheet wishlist for escort carriers was previously stated to be 60 upthread, in the same post that mentioned 200 frigates.
3)Carriers require escorts.
A 36 aircraft (24 Orca + 12 helicopter) basic CVE can only maintain a 2-plane BARCAP around the clock. An advanced CVE (36 aircraft + 36 drones) with wingman drones raises that to 2 planes + 2 drones. Thats not going to stop a 12-plane strike by a Vertigo squadron detected at 20 miles/36km, or a submarine. Hence escorts.
However.
The GDI Navy is short of bluewater escorts. Building more carriers first will only exacerbate that existing shortage, if we attempt to use them the way the Navy swears they want to.
Without the escort strength to allow them to operate in their own carrier groups, CVEs will have to be integrated into existing supercarrier and battleship groups, where there is an escort screen to prevent them getting sunk by ambushing Vertigos and submarines. Thats great for overall carrier group airpower and making existing carrier strike groups more powerful.
But it does not achieve the Navy's stated goal of freeing up supercarrier groups for offensive duty.
Even in the event where we do everything to economize on escorts, by for example: Grouping 3x CVEs each together for mutual support into escort carrier groups, and assigning only two cruisers to guard them as a group, instead of the 1:1 ratio of existing supercarrier strike groups, they essentially wipe out our cruiser pool, and thats shallow enough as it is.
This is a game, not a simulation, but its worth looking at the example of RL navies in that regard.
The Chinese for example, who built up a whole fleet of escorts before even attempting to build their first domestic carrier. Or the British, who had the Type 45 and Type 23s in service before building the QEs. Or the Italians with the Cavour. Or the South Koreans with their proposed light carrier only being suggested after they have a surfeit of Aegis destroyers and frigates.
I want the escort carriers, but I dont believe we can build and run them in the role the Navy wants without a bigger pool of frigates.
Nice.
Its worth noting that this is the executive summary of the captain of the mission.
Does not necessarily mean that the Council itself will agree. Especially if they get a look at the raw data that was presumably collected from open source data and optical surveillance.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The missile-armed Venoms got remarked upon because they were shooting at our planes. A modified long-range Carryall might or might not get mentioned; absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. This is especially true when within the context of the report, anyone familiar with the range limits of the Carryall would know if it was operating outside its normal maximum range, and be able to deduce (or already know from other sources) that Nod operates extended-range Carryalls.
And in the context that this in-story piece of text was written, the reader could reasonably be expected to know that.
And yes, we are the ones who designed the original Carryall, which Nod modified. That doesn't mean the version we fly (probably broadly the same as the Tib War Two version we used to use) has the same operational range as the version they flew after Tib War Three.
This doesn't matter. The Navy wants more ships; that doesn't mean they just want to maximize the total number of GDI Navy ships in the world or they'd just demand more hydrofoil yards.
If they want escort carriers for a specific reason, or to fulfill a specific mission that frigates cannot fulfill, then it does not matter how many frigates they could have for the price of an escort carrier. Because no number of frigates will enable them to launch an Orca squadron and fuck up a threatening Nod raider from 300 km away.
No one has ever yet explained to me how the Navy could be so blind and stupid as to not have noticed this themselves.
@Ithillid , maybe you get tired of questions like this, but... can we please get something conclusive on this? We've been going around in circles on the subject for weeks.
Like, Seo could literally call up the top admiral of GDI on the phone and say something like:
"Okay, we've got funds in the pipeline for the next round of shipyard slips for new warships. Realistically, for the first year or so, we're probably going to concentrate on one type of building slip or the other, though a 50/50 split isn't out of the question. I've got people telling me we should start building nothing but escort carrier slips in the first year or so, because that's what you said you wanted most. I've got people telling me we should start building frigate slips in the first year or so, because despite what you said, the escort carriers will need escorts of their own and you're short on those, too, and because any hull is better than no hull and we can have more frigates in the water sooner. And I've got people telling me to split the slip construction roughly 50/50. Personally I'm not sure what to think, and I figure you know more about ships than anyone else, so which of those three options would you pick?"
...
I'd be a lot more interested in hearing the result of that statement, or an executive summary of an in-universe report intended to address the same question, than in endlessly going around and around in circles with people who are Very Confident that they know better than our own naval officers what said naval officers need.
- Location
- USA
Let's just focus on the escort carriers till they tell us they could use something else as well.
Like the military still has priority items but they said they were good for a while and we could focus elsewhere for a bit.
We ARE getting the useful information but some people are focusing on the minor details instead of the blatant message.
I am absolutely sure at some point the navy will ask for more frigates. But right now they damn well want the frigging escorts.
Maybe after we build a few yards they will start mentioning that they need more frigates as well but we aren't there yet.
Like the military still has priority items but they said they were good for a while and we could focus elsewhere for a bit.
We ARE getting the useful information but some people are focusing on the minor details instead of the blatant message.
I am absolutely sure at some point the navy will ask for more frigates. But right now they damn well want the frigging escorts.
Maybe after we build a few yards they will start mentioning that they need more frigates as well but we aren't there yet.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
If by "the military" you mean "specifically the Ground Forces," yes.
More generally, I agree with you. Sure, we can just ignore the preferences listed by the branch of the armed forces that will be effected. Sure, they're not holy writ. But if we're going to ignore them, then it should usually be because we are looking at something they can't see, or don't understand.
The armed forces may not have fully understand the implications of the war factory refits, because many of the consequences impact civilian bureaucracy (outside their chain of command) or the industrial economy (outside their chain of command). They probably couldn't fully assess the impact of the ICS rationalization of our logistics chain, because they weren't civilian shipping experts.
But they damn well do understand "what a light carrier can do" versus "what a frigate can do," and they damn well know how to price "the carriers will need escorts of their own" into their analysis. That IS within the confines of their area of expertise, which makes it more questionable to act as though they don't know what they're doing and should be overridden.
They thought the Carryalls were from South America because there was apparently precedent for that sort of logistic trip.
Which would suggest standard aircraft, not special extended range variants.
Rio to LA : 10,000 km. Shanghai to LA: 10,000 km.
The Carryall we fly is essentially the Nod variant.
We built them from blueprints that the Qatarites brought with them when they defected.
It does matter. Because the enemy gets a vote, and an escort carrier has two squadrons of aircraft and one of helicopters.
Someone has to notice the raider 300km away, and call in the airstrike, and with Nod stealth in play, you need a lot more sensor and effector nodes in play to back up satellite and aircraft surveillance and effectors.
Its not like a frigate half the size of a Governor is helpless against raiders either. Thats roughly the displacement of a Burke III
CVEs are a more powerful, more flexible weapon than frigates.
But they dont operate solo, will presumably take longer to build, and cannot be in as many places at the same time.
Numbers matter.
Mistakes happen. They may assume we know, or its fallen between the cracks.
IRL, the Spanish naval shipyards designed a submarine that was first too heavy to surface, and after finding out and fixing that with a redesign mid-construction, was then too big to operate out of its designated port, and they didnt notice for five years.
Spain's new submarine 'too big for its dock'
First the S-80 had problems floating, now it cannot fit in its base of operations, Spanish media say.
www.bbc.com
How a Misplaced Decimal Point Nearly Took Down Spain’s Newest Submarines
As all service members know, attention to detail is important.
And in this quest, the same way we didnt notice that we were still using surplus unrifled tank cannon as howitzer tubes for half a decade post-TibWar3 instead of proper rifled howitzers.
Or how Ground Forces put High Priority on Shell Plants that improved the production of artillery ammo, but not on Tube Artillery Development that would have produced rifled tubes to improve their accuracy and reduce their ammo expenditure.
Hardly unpredented.
I mean, I didnt remember that CVEs needed escorts themselves until last week, when I started doing the numbers for supercarriers.
Alternatively.
And this is pure speculation on my part, they are calculating that by the time the CVEs are in service, the Treasury should have funded frigates, which build faster, without their asking for them.
Or it could just be institutional bias towards carriers.Which is also possible.
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- Location
- The Underdark
The problem is that there is not really a completely conclusive answer they can give you, because you don't know yet what the final design is going to be. Because right now, for each of the classes that the navy wants, there are two to five designs in progress, and part of doing [ ] Design X projects is picking which design you are going to be going with.
For the escort carriers you have.
1. A naked 2 plane BARCAP design with 24 Orcas and 12 Hammerheads.
2. A significantly bigger one that has 24 Orcas, 12 Hammerheads, and then an equal number of drones, currently just a box that says more or less "drone be here"
3. One closer in size to 2, but designed for an all meatbag pilot group.
For the Frigates, you have
1. A microgovernor.
2. An all missile dedicated submarine hunter.
3. A laserboat.
4. Lasers forward, missiles aft.
And that is just the designs that are close enough to being ready to put cutter to steel to have a chance at all.
So the real answer is to do the Design projects and see what comes out the other end.
Edit: So, for example, if the Navy knew that what they would get is 3 and 1 (for example) they might prioritize 1 over 3. But if they are getting say 1, and 2, then 1 is by far the higher priority.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Weird thought, then: we do both Developments this turn, see what they turn up and what the Navy wants more of after.
- Location
- Most likely California
My interpretation is that the Navy's current concern is protecting convoys from raiding aircrafts. This comes from either defense (point defenses on escorting ships) or offense (using carriers to dogfight or launch preemptive attacks).
Currently, these duties are fulfilled by the Governor Cruisers and Fleet Carriers respectively. The CVE and Frigates projects create designs that are better suited for escort duties, freeing these ships for more general uses, including offense actions against NOD.
The reason that Escort Carriers are a higher priority is because the Fleet Carriers are A)A Pre-TW3 design that is outdated compared to the more recent Governor Design and B)are excessive for escort duties, thus a poor fit for this role. Meanwhile, the Governors are preforming well enough, with the proposed frigate just being a slimmed down version of it.
tl:dr: Governor already fulfills the same Niche as the Frigate, while our current carriers are ill-suited for escorts, hence why the Navy has CVE are a higher priority.
Currently, these duties are fulfilled by the Governor Cruisers and Fleet Carriers respectively. The CVE and Frigates projects create designs that are better suited for escort duties, freeing these ships for more general uses, including offense actions against NOD.
The reason that Escort Carriers are a higher priority is because the Fleet Carriers are A)A Pre-TW3 design that is outdated compared to the more recent Governor Design and B)are excessive for escort duties, thus a poor fit for this role. Meanwhile, the Governors are preforming well enough, with the proposed frigate just being a slimmed down version of it.
tl:dr: Governor already fulfills the same Niche as the Frigate, while our current carriers are ill-suited for escorts, hence why the Navy has CVE are a higher priority.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Preliminary Plan numero tres.
This version of Plan Forward! drops Domestic Animals to promote the last Shell die to finishing the Savannah MARV fleet. I'm thinking of swapping the Ablatives for Shells to go with Fortress Towns but other than that I feel this is pretty much finalized.
Plan One Ship, Two Ship is a variant of Forward! that develops both the CVEs and the Frigates this quarter, and incidentally also attempts a second Apollo factory. These are paid for by dropping Ablatives and cutting back on Freeze Dried Food Plants in favor of Kudzu.
This version of Plan Forward! drops Domestic Animals to promote the last Shell die to finishing the Savannah MARV fleet. I'm thinking of swapping the Ablatives for Shells to go with Fortress Towns but other than that I feel this is pretty much finalized.
[]Plan Forward!
-[]Infrastructure 6/6 150R
--[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4) 46/250 3 dice 60R 90%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 0/200 3 dice 90R 91%
-[]Heavy Industry 5/5 + 4 180R
--[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 5) 1/300 2 dice 40R (median 2/4)
--[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1+2) 0/480 7 dice 140R 88%
-[]Light & Chemical Industry 5/5 100R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 20/640 5 dice 100R (median 5/9)
-[]Agriculture 4/4 60R
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 0/300 2 dice 20R (median 2/4)
--[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 0/200 2 die 40R 20% (median 2/3)
-[]Tiberium 7/7 140R
--[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6) 2/375 6 dice 120R 99%
--[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 1 die 20R 61%
-[]Orbital Industry 6/6 100R
--[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1+2) 0/325 4 dice 80R 40%
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 8+9) 13/170 2 dice 20R 55%
-[]Services 2/5 20R
--[] Prosthetics Deployment Initiatives (Phase 4) 288/320 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Security Review
-[]Military 8/8 + 2 165R
--[] Super MARV Fleet Yellow Zone 6a 184/210 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development 35/60 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 2) 136/195 2 dice 40R 100%
--[] Wingman Drone Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Apollo Fighter Factories
---[] Maputo 0/80 1 die 15R 61%
--[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 5) 54/200 2 dice 20R 70%
--[] Hallucinogen Countermeasures Development (New) 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Escort Carrier Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[]Bureaucracy 4/4 + 1
--[] Security Reviews
---[]Services 2 dice auto
---[]Bueaucracy 2 dice auto
--[] Security Review
915/915R, 7/7 Free Dice
-[]Infrastructure 6/6 150R
--[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4) 46/250 3 dice 60R 90%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 0/200 3 dice 90R 91%
-[]Heavy Industry 5/5 + 4 180R
--[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 5) 1/300 2 dice 40R (median 2/4)
--[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1+2) 0/480 7 dice 140R 88%
-[]Light & Chemical Industry 5/5 100R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 20/640 5 dice 100R (median 5/9)
-[]Agriculture 4/4 60R
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 0/300 2 dice 20R (median 2/4)
--[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 0/200 2 die 40R 20% (median 2/3)
-[]Tiberium 7/7 140R
--[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6) 2/375 6 dice 120R 99%
--[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 1 die 20R 61%
-[]Orbital Industry 6/6 100R
--[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1+2) 0/325 4 dice 80R 40%
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 8+9) 13/170 2 dice 20R 55%
-[]Services 2/5 20R
--[] Prosthetics Deployment Initiatives (Phase 4) 288/320 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Security Review
-[]Military 8/8 + 2 165R
--[] Super MARV Fleet Yellow Zone 6a 184/210 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development 35/60 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 2) 136/195 2 dice 40R 100%
--[] Wingman Drone Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Apollo Fighter Factories
---[] Maputo 0/80 1 die 15R 61%
--[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 5) 54/200 2 dice 20R 70%
--[] Hallucinogen Countermeasures Development (New) 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Escort Carrier Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[]Bureaucracy 4/4 + 1
--[] Security Reviews
---[]Services 2 dice auto
---[]Bueaucracy 2 dice auto
--[] Security Review
915/915R, 7/7 Free Dice
Plan One Ship, Two Ship is a variant of Forward! that develops both the CVEs and the Frigates this quarter, and incidentally also attempts a second Apollo factory. These are paid for by dropping Ablatives and cutting back on Freeze Dried Food Plants in favor of Kudzu.
[]Plan One Ship, Two Ship
-[]Infrastructure 6/6 150R
--[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4) 46/250 3 dice 60R 90%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 0/200 3 dice 90R 91%
-[]Heavy Industry 5/5 + 4 180R
--[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 5) 1/300 2 dice 40R (median 2/4)
--[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1+2) 0/480 7 dice 140R 88%
-[]Light & Chemical Industry 5/5 100R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 20/640 5 dice 100R (median 5/9)
-[]Agriculture 4/4 50R
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 0/300 3 dice 30R (median 3/4)
--[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 0/200 1 die 20R (median 1/3)
-[]Tiberium 7/7 140R
--[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6) 2/375 6 dice 120R 99%
--[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 1 die 20R 61%
-[]Orbital Industry 6/6 100R
--[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1+2) 0/325 4 dice 80R 40%
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 8+9) 13/170 2 dice 20R 55%
-[]Services 2/5 20R
--[] Prosthetics Deployment Initiatives (Phase 4) 288/320 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Security Review
-[]Military 8/8 + 2 175R
--[] Super MARV Fleet Yellow Zone 6a 184/210 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development 35/60 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 2) 136/195 2 dice 40R 100%
--[] Wingman Drone Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Apollo Fighter Factories
---[] San Francisco 0/80 1 die 15R 61%
---[] Maputo 0/80 1 die 15R 61%
--[] Hallucinogen Countermeasures Development (New) 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Escort Carrier Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Shark Class Frigate Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[]Bureaucracy 4/4 + 1
--[] Security Reviews
---[]Services 2 dice auto
---[]Bueaucracy 2 dice auto
--[] Security Review
915/915R, 7/7 Free Dice
-[]Infrastructure 6/6 150R
--[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4) 46/250 3 dice 60R 90%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 0/200 3 dice 90R 91%
-[]Heavy Industry 5/5 + 4 180R
--[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 5) 1/300 2 dice 40R (median 2/4)
--[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1+2) 0/480 7 dice 140R 88%
-[]Light & Chemical Industry 5/5 100R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 20/640 5 dice 100R (median 5/9)
-[]Agriculture 4/4 50R
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 0/300 3 dice 30R (median 3/4)
--[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 0/200 1 die 20R (median 1/3)
-[]Tiberium 7/7 140R
--[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6) 2/375 6 dice 120R 99%
--[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 1 die 20R 61%
-[]Orbital Industry 6/6 100R
--[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1+2) 0/325 4 dice 80R 40%
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 8+9) 13/170 2 dice 20R 55%
-[]Services 2/5 20R
--[] Prosthetics Deployment Initiatives (Phase 4) 288/320 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Security Review
-[]Military 8/8 + 2 175R
--[] Super MARV Fleet Yellow Zone 6a 184/210 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development 35/60 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 2) 136/195 2 dice 40R 100%
--[] Wingman Drone Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Apollo Fighter Factories
---[] San Francisco 0/80 1 die 15R 61%
---[] Maputo 0/80 1 die 15R 61%
--[] Hallucinogen Countermeasures Development (New) 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Escort Carrier Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Shark Class Frigate Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[]Bureaucracy 4/4 + 1
--[] Security Reviews
---[]Services 2 dice auto
---[]Bueaucracy 2 dice auto
--[] Security Review
915/915R, 7/7 Free Dice
- Location
- The Underdark
Wait for Structural Alloys to actually, come out maybe?
- Location
- USA
Keep in mind even after we get a gacha it takes time for our research departments to turn that into deployable projects so last year of this plan is probably the earliest we see the omake techs from scrin.
Admittedly I think we are still waiting for our research department to provide us a project for the mining tentacles we got from the scrin gacha, but I expect that it is providing a rather interesting project.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Given that we're a bit dice-constrained, I say we just do the escort carrier first. If it turns out that the winning model of escort carrier and frigate are such that the Navy wants both at once, there's no real harm in doing like ONE escort carrier yard in 2060Q2 and simultaneously doing frigate development in 2060Q2 so we can have the first frigate yard in 2060Q3.
Like, I really don't mind developing the frigate, but I oppose pre-committing to building frigate yards using dice that we could otherwise use to build escort carrier yards, until and unless we have a clear indication that that's what the Navy wants from us.
Another reason to hold off one more round on the escort frigate is that even if we do Advanced Lasers this turn (in 2060Q1) like I'm hoping to, there may be a second project to turn the advanced laser tech into a viable naval laser system. If there is, then we definitely want to complete that second-level project before designing the frigate, because otherwise the frigate design is stuck with just crystal beam lasers.
Simultaneous development is all very well when you're confident that you have all the techs you need for the overall package you plan to fit in the platform. I'm not quite sure that's true for the frigate.
(We'll probably also want plasma missiles for the frigate, but with URLS in place, it seems likely that the frigate's existing missile launch systems will be compatible with plasma-tipped missiles that will themselves be URLS-compatible designs)
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Mini-governor, probably.
Lasers are nice, but they're strictly line of sight weapons. If even Nod are strapping missiles on Venoms in the air, it petty much settled that everyone needs a non-line of sight homing weapon. Better laser goes to improve laser point defence.
Looking around, the US Navy deploys its carrier groups with 1 Ticonderoga-class cruiser and 5 Burke-class destroyers as escorts.
The Brits deployed Queen Elizabeth last year with two destroyers, two frigates, three supply ships and a submarine, with the US and the Dutch contributing an additional destroyer and frigate for a final escort group of three destroyers + three frigates + three supply ships+ a submarine.
Just as a brief back of napkin piece of math , assuming we built 30x CVEs and organized them in three carrier taskforces for mutual protection? That would come to a total of 10 task forces, of which only 5x are at sea at a time.
One in the Indian Ocean, and two each in the Pacific and Atlantic Ocean.
Each TF would have 72x Orcas and 36x helicopters as its air wing, and would be able to maintain a 6-plane BARCAP, which becomes 6 planes + 6 wingman drones later.
That is a respectable response to the pacing threat of a wing of 24x Vertigo bombers we sa attack our cruisers a couple yars ago.
But its escorts?
A single cruiser to serve as air defence boss for the group, and probably five frigates to shoot FESSMs at hostile aircraft and help run ASW, plus their own organic helicopters.
Carrier Task Force: 3x CVEs + 1x CA + 5x FF + supply ships.
72x Orcas + 36x helicopters + 12x dedicated ASW helicters from cruiser and frigates.
You'd need around 50 frigates in total to fill out their escorts, which is roughly 20-25% of the frigates the Navy wants built.
Also 10x cruisers, which reduces our pool of free cruisers from 34 to 24, but in return we flood the zone with 150-190x modern frigates.
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