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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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[X] Plan Bureaucratic Havoc, ICS Edition

The Orca refits really need to get started, that's what's primarily drawing me to this plan. It's the Air Force's number one ask, it plugs a serious hole in our capabilities (we basically don't have a CAS aircraft right now, the old A-15 can only operate in the safest of environments these days so it's near useless on the actual front), and if we're expecting to get jumped soon (I definitely am) it's critical to have the A-16 factories spun up and issuing out airframes. We don't just need the factories completed on the turn we get jumped, then there's only going to be a few dozen A-16's on the planet, not enough to change anything. We need them done a few turns beforehand so they can build up an actually useful amount of A-16's by the time the big game comes.
 
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[X] Plan Philly, Auroras, Lasers, Liquid T, and Kudzu Tea
I'd prefer Orcas to Auroras, but at least this doesn't waste dice/resources on a factory that's going to auto-complete.
 
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this seems like a fun quest, i wonder what it would take to get a proper space shipyard up and running

[X] Plan Philly, Auroras, Lasers, Liquid T, and Kudzu Tea
 
"Waste" is a pretty strong word when it'll take another 3 turns for the factory to complete if we just let it go by on its own. 3 turns where ZOCOM isn't getting its full loadout of Havocs due to having half the needed production.

Also, I consider it important from a political standpoint to give the Talons the message that we're not just going to invest the bare minimum necessary in them. Especially considering how long it took to just get the Havoc started. We're trying to fix relations between them and the Treasury.
 
I've got the planmaking bug so I made some minor edits to @Chimeraguard's plan, maybe it'll be a worthy compromise. As nice as it would be to get the Talons both their factories ASAP, if we can get Seoul for free by just waiting, well.... it's hard to say no to free. So instead of spending Bureau dice on finishing Seoul I tweaked it to just spend on Brest and let Seoul auto-complete, freeing up the Bureau dice to rationalize the Yellow Zones and freeing up 10R to turn a SMARV fleet die into a Tib power research die. I also took the liberty of changing a stockpiles die to a perennials die just to be seen working on it but I can change that back if anyone is seriously opposed.

Still voting for the original plan too, I really think we need the Orcas started. But hopefully this is a somewhat popular set of optimizations.

[X] Plan Tiberium-Powered Havoc
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 2), 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Integrated Cargo System, 4 dice (60 Resources)
Heavy Industry (4 dice)
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 3), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors, 2 dice (50 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (4 dice)
-[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] T-Glass Foundries (Stage 1), 3 dice (45 Resources)
Agriculture (3 dice)
-[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 3), 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
Tiberium (6 dice)
-[X] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 2), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Reclamator S-MARV Fleet Red Zone 7 South, 3 dice (60 Resources)
-[X] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Development, 1 die (30 Resources)
Orbital (5 dice +2 Free)
-[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5), 7 dice (140 Resources)
Services (4 dice)
-[X] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Domestic Animal Programs, 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Early Prototype General Artificial Intelligence Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
Military (6 dice +5 Free)
-[X] Reclamator S-MARV Fleet Red Zone 7 South, 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Reclamator Hub Yellow Zone (YZ-6B), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Orca Refit Deployment, 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Aurora Strike Bomber Development, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Orbital Defense Laser Development, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Shell Plants (Phase 4), 3 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Havoc Scout Deployment (Brest), 1 die (10 Resources)
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[X] Rationalize Yellow Zones, 3 dice

Resources Available: 760
Resources Spent: 760
Resources Remaining: 0

[X] Plan Bureaucratic Havoc, ICS Edition
 
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Crazycryodude said:
The Orca refits really need to get started, that's what's primarily drawing me to this plan. It's the Air Force's primary ask, it plugs a serious hole in our capabilities (we basically don't have a CAS aircraft right now, the old A-15 can only operate in the safest of environments these days so it's near useless on the actual front)... and if we're expecting to get jumped soon (I definitely am) it's critical to have the A-16 factories spun up and issuing out airframes. We don't just need the factories completed on the turn we get jumped, then there's only going to be a few dozen A-16's on the planet, not enough to change anything. We need them done a few turns beforehand so they can build up an actually useful amount of A-16's by the time the big game comes.
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Honestly, I only have four real complaints about @Chimeraguard 's Bureaucratic Havoc, ICS Edition plan.

1) There's really not much CG can do about this, but I'm concerned that by spending only seven dice on the Philadelphia this turn, we may end up in a position where next turn we're required to commit a LOT of Free dice to be assured of finishing the project in Q3 as we hope to. This will in turn cramp our style elsewhere.

2) I think we should try if at all possible to put the fifth Infrastructure die on the ICS, to give it a better chance of being complete-able in 2059Q3, because of the impending warlord dogpile. Housing is important but realistically we won't get much done on that front in the near future anyway; we might as well focus on the megaproject at hand. There's a war on.

3) I think we should consolidate the Ablatives die onto another action that is more likely to be significantly aided by a single die. Such as the Orca refits. With the Super Orca being a cornerstone of @Chimeraguard 's plan, it seems inadvisable to only put two dice on them. A third die bumps us up to a much higher chance of actually finishing the project this turn, and doing so is supposed to be a major argument for the merits of CG's plan.

...

[Both (2) and (3) would require at least +5R apiece to implement; I would personally consider it worthwhile to sacrifice the General AI research, which is not urgent and is likely to involve a long development cycle to be sure it's safe. My plan did something similar, though to fund different projects]

...

Also, and frankly most importantly to me...

4) I would really appreciate it if CG could remove the Extra Large Food Stockpiles action from the plan. We know it'll be more efficient to wait to do that until after we've got the freeze-drying plants done. If it's a war security measure, then I don't think it's likely to prove necessary; we've spent a lot of effort investing in a military that can push back Nod and keep them away from the bulk of our population and the supply lines that deliver that population's food.

Honestly, despite my other concerns I would probably approval-vote CG's plan if the stockpile action were removed. I do understand the underlying logic of wanting to push the Military dice hard under the circumstances, after all.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
4) I would really appreciate it if CG could remove the Extra Large Food Stockpiles action from the plan. We know it'll be more efficient to wait to do that until after we've got the freeze-drying plants done. If it's a war security measure, then I don't think it's likely to prove necessary; we've spent a lot of effort investing in a military that can push back Nod and keep them away from the bulk of our population and the supply lines that deliver that population's food.
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Freeze-drying is 20 RpD and it applies retroactively to all the stockpiles built before it, so there's no loss in doing the stockpile now.

Also, I'm doing Strategic Food Stockpile, not Extra Large Food Stockpiles.
 
Derpmind said:
Posting and approval voting this plan for @sunrise. Sunrise, please re-post your plan when you're next available.

[X] Plan Philadelphia and Reykjavik
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 75 Resources
-[X] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 5 Dice 75R
Heavy Industry 4/4 Dice 95 Resources
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 3) 199/300 1 die 20R
-[X] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 146/500 3 Dice 75R
Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 80 Resources
-[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner 260/320 4 Dice 80R
Agriculture 3/3 Dice 40 Resources
-[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 3) 163/350 2 dice 20R 20%
-[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 0/40 1 die 20R 97%
Tiberium 6/6 Dice 130 Resources -5 PS
-[X] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6) 54/200 1 die 25R
-[X] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 148/200 1 die 20R 5PS 94%
-[X] Super MARVs x2 0/420 2 Mil 4 Tib dice 60R 78%
Orbital 5/5 Dice + 5 Free Dice 200 Resources
-[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 474/1425 10 Dice 200R
Services 0/4 Dice 0 Resources
Military 6/6 Dice + 2 Free Dice 135 Resources:
-[X] Reclamator Fleet Red Zone 7-South Super MARVs 0/210 2 Dice 40R
-[X] Reclaimator Hub YZ-6a (Savannah) 84/125 1 die 20R 94%
-[X] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 128/300 2 dice + Administrative Assistance 20R 84%
-[X] Orca Refit Deployment 0/200 2 dice 30R 14%
-[X] Havoc Scout Mech Deployment Brest 77/110 1 die 10R 100%
-[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 2) 105/200 1 die 15R 40%
Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice:
-[X] Administrative Assistance (New)
755/‌760
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tagging @sunrise since it's their plan:

You should move the Havoc Brest die to shells, and take admin assist off of shells and put it on Havoc Seol instead. This has the effect of reducing the chance of finishing a Havoc factory from 99% to 97%, and increasing the progress on shells by 19.

Mind, I'd like it if you put a die on Auroras, but no reason not to make your plan the best version of itself it can be, eh?

If the point of the plan was to let it autocomplete though, feel free to ignore this I guess.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Honestly, despite my other concerns I would approval-vote CG's plan if the stockpile action were removed. I do understand the underlying logic of wanting to push the Military dice hard under the circumstances, after all.
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The stockpiling action is strategic stockpiles in areas that are still considered vulnerable, not stacking up more in the deep Blue stockpiles (which is what Extra Large Stockpiles does). I think that's worthwhile, having some food cached in forward positions for any military or civilian populations that get cut off might be the difference between them getting rolled and holding out long enough for relief to arrive. I'm definitely opposed to just piling up more food in the Blue Zones but the strategic stockpiles are in the Green with the intention of supporting vulnerable areas.

As for the freeze drying, we can retroactively apply the freeze dried bonus to already-existing stockpiles whenever we do get around to building the plants. It might trickle back the food discount over a few years as the stockpiles get rotated out or whatever rather than being an immediate hit, but the food doesn't just vanish forever we CAN go back and change out what's in the stockpiles for better efficiency once the option is available. I'd like to have some supplies built up in the Green Zones now just in case and worry about efficiency when war isn't quite so thick in the air.
 
Thorgon said:
this seems like a fun quest, i wonder what it would take to get a proper space shipyard up and running
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About thirty Orbital dice at 20 R/die. It's called Enterprise.

The hard part is sourcing the materials to feed our space shipyard, from anything other than groundside tiberium mines. :p

Ithillid said:
A lot of investment. Several thousand resources over the course of a few decades.
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Heh. The QM's definition of "proper" is more ambitious than mine, I guess.

Chimeraguard said:
"Waste" is a pretty strong word when it'll take another 3 turns for the factory to complete if we just let it go by on its own. 3 turns where ZOCOM isn't getting its full loadout of Havocs due to having half the needed production.

Also, I consider it important from a political standpoint to give the Talons the message that we're not just going to invest the bare minimum necessary in them. Especially considering how long it took to just get the Havoc started. We're trying to fix relations between them and the Treasury.
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I support this, and I'm tentatively planning to use Bureaucratic Assistance to finish Seoul in 2059Q3. Which isn't as good for the Talons as your plan, admittedly.

Crazycryodude said:
I've got the planmaking bug so I made some minor edits to @Chimeraguard's plan, maybe it'll be a worthy compromise. As nice as it would be to get the Talons both their factories ASAP, if we can get Seoul for free by just waiting, well.... it's hard to say no to free. So instead of spending Bureau dice on finishing Seoul I tweaked it to just spend on Brest and let Seoul auto-complete, freeing up the Bureau dice to rationalize the Yellow Zones and freeing up 10R to turn a SMARV fleet die into a Tib power research die. I also took the liberty of changing a stockpiles die to a perennials die just to be seen working on it but I can change that back if anyone is seriously opposed.

Still voting for the original plan too, I really think we need the Orcas started. But hopefully this is a somewhat popular set of optimizations.
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Uh... you might want to edit out the mention of "assistance" in the military 'tab' of your plan?

Also, I'm not sure it's a good idea to 'upgrade' the SMARV die. You'd probably do better to upgrade military production dice or the apartment die, as I mention in my previous post.

Chimeraguard said:
Freeze-drying is 20 RpD and it applies retroactively to all the stockpiles built before it, so there's no loss in doing the stockpile now.
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Hm. If it's applied retroactively then my concerns are reduced... though that leaves (1), (2), and (3).

Crazycryodude said:
The stockpiling action is strategic stockpiles in areas that are still considered vulnerable, not stacking up more in the deep Blue stockpiles (which is what Extra Large Stockpiles does). I think that's worthwhile, having some food cached in forward positions for any military or civilian populations that get cut off might be the difference between them getting rolled and holding out long enough for relief to arrive. I'm definitely opposed to just piling up more food in the Blue Zones but the strategic stockpiles are in the Green with the intention of supporting vulnerable areas.
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Nah, you're right. I'm not worried about the stockpiling action anymore.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Uh... you might want to edit out the mention of "assistance" in the military 'tab' of your plan?
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Thanks for catching that, fixed.

Simon_Jester said:
Also, I'm not sure it's a good idea to 'upgrade' the SMARV die. You'd probably do better to upgrade military production dice or the apartment die, as I mention in my previous post.
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There's no ablat die in the current draft to turn into an Orca die, I'd agree if it was there but the options for poaching dice in the current draft are the Aurora, the Havoc factory, or orbital lasers. None of which I'm super willing to cut, although I guess lasers could get turned into another Orca die. I'd like lasers available to maybe integrate into the Philly before it gets too far done though, and I think the general thread mood is in favor of laser development.

Turning apartments into ICS is more feasible, although I do kind of want to be seen working on housing even if it's just a token effort. Dropping Tib power to go back to a SMARV die and upgrading the apartments instead would be fine by me, the other 5R could turn a fusion power die into a BZHIS die too. I guess it depends on whether the thread wants cap goods and logistics more or Tib power more. Anyone have strong opinions either way?
 
Ithillid said:
Q4 2058
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??? Someone hasn't updated their calendar since last year...

[X] Plan Philly, Auroras, Lasers, Liquid T, and Kudzu Tea
Would really prefer to see one of the Philly dice switched to ICS. All the frontloading arguments for Philly also apply to ICS, and yet this is backloading ICS.

[X] Plan Bureaucratic Havoc, ICS Edition
This is a more people friendly plan, and also helps make the air force happy.
 
Crazycryodude said:
I do want to speak up in defense of the tarberries though, I think their primary utility is being able to synthesize fossil fuels out of free solar energy rather than having to spend grid power on operating energy-intensive chemical plants. Since they're explicitly not for human consumption, we can just grow them outside in greenhouses/open fields instead of sealed environments. Micro-Tiberium infestation isn't a big deal when you're going to be mashing the berries up to extract all their gasoline or whatever anyways, just put the pulp through a sonic blaster as part of the processing. It won't be crazy efficient, it's energy from Agriculture dice, but being able to get some tank juice out of solar energy rather than grid power should add up to significant power savings if we do enough. Something to seriously consider after the perennials, kudzu, and stockpiling targets are done IMO.
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That's pretty much my take, too. It's nice to have but not a priority.

Crazycryodude said:
I guess it depends on whether the thread wants cap goods and logistics more or Tib power more. Anyone have strong opinions either way?
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Eh.

Logi & Cap Goods would be nice as a sort of alternative Simon plan. I'll approval-vote if it goes that way.
 
[X] Plan Philly, Auroras, Lasers, Liquid T, and Kudzu Tea

I really want the Orcas, but this plan has every other wish list item I've been wanting for the past several turns.

On another note, I cannot wait til the Philly is completed and we can use those freed dice to start either pushing forward our economy or military.
 
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