Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

IndustrialVice2 · Oct 12, 2021

In addition to the points @Simon_Jester raised against trying to rush Philly, it's going to hog the fusion dice we need to get OSRCT done, which, an an anti-MASTERSTROKE tech, carries a high priority.

Simon_Jester · Oct 12, 2021

BUDGET:
505 R/turn
6 Free dice
12 Fusion dice

~~490~~ 505*/505 Resources spent
6/6 Free Dice allocated
6/12 Fusion Dice allocated

*(Forgot to factor in an extra 15 R Service die I took)

[] Plan Infra Infra Revolution

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice 100 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 409/600 (1 die, 15 R) (1/4 median)
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 1) (4 dice, 40 R) (95+ % chance)
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 2) 15/275 (3 dice, 45 R) (12+ % chance)

Heavy Industry 3/5 Dice 60 R
-[] Automated Civilian Shipyards 0/250 (3 Dice, 60 R) (22+ % chance)

Light and Chemical Industry 0/4 Dice 0 R

Agriculture 3/3 Dice 40 R
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 0/40 (1 Die, 20 R) (90+ % chance)
-[] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (Phase 2) 12/160 (2 Dice, 20 R) (37+ % chance)

Tiberium 5/5 Dice 140 R
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 10) 1/130 (2 Dice, 50 R) (79+ % chance)
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 10) 18/180 (3 Dice, 90 R) (93.5+ % chance)

Orbital 3/3 Dice + 3 Free Dice 90 R
-[] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 4) 5/135 (3 Dice, 30 R) (89% + chance)
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 29/715 (3 Dice, 60 R) (3/10.5 median)

Services 3/4 Dice 35 R
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 0/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (77+ % chance)
-[] Emergency Tiberium Infusion Development 0/120 (1 Die, 15 R) (17+ % chance)
-[] Security Review

Military 4/4 Dice 40 R
-[] ZEMEV Deployment (Sydney) 49/80 (1 die, 10 R) (96+ % chance)
-[] Point Defense Refits 15/250 (3 dice, 30R) (25+ % chance)

Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice
-[] Focus Reallocation (flip Services to Orbital) (1 die)
-[] Services Review (2 dice)

...

The big focus of this plan draft is the infrastructure. We have near-assurance of finishing a phase of apartments (eliminating the immediacy of the housing crisis), we resume at least limited work on the arcologies (as a show of good faith) and we work on the railroad, though probably not enough to finish the phase. This costs free dice, but we can live with that for a turn and it really does help get us out of the present jam.

Due to budget constraints, I only put three dice on the shipyards- enough to start slow-walking them. It might be worth spending two dice on that project in Q2, or it might not. No dice on light industry yet; none of those projects has the sheer urgency to demand attention in the here-and-now.

For agriculture, I want more Yellow Zone water purification to provide redundancy and security... and, well, caffeinated kudzu. It's time.

Since we are (by luck) one stage of Red Zone Harvesting ahead of what is required to sustain the next phase of glacier mines, we can afford to take some risk of the Red Zone Harvesting stage not completing in Q2, and still be able to slam out a glacier mine with quite high confidence.

Commsats are in Orbital because we are still poor and because it's there to offset the Logistics cost of the glacier mine so we don't cut too deep into our reserves- though we're still barely okay if none of our Logistics projects finish, as I understand it. However, I DID manage to find the Resources to put three dice on the Philadelphia anyway!

Services is still partly fallow and shrinking back from the sexiest projects because we're still short on Resources, but we can at least start riding the mad science train on some of the projects that will (for instance) help us treat the increasingly Tib-encrusted Qatar loyalists. Though that tiberium infusion trick is, like all our wildly unpopular mad science projects, definitely something to slow-walk.

For the military, we finish the other ZEMEV plant and push the point defense refits to the point where in Q3 and on we'll just slow-walk them to victory while we can focus on other priorities (like shell and ablative plants and some of our cheaper 'new weapon' options like Tube Artillery Development and actually rolling out the Super Orca production line)

Overall, this plan starts things rolling in the right general direction, I think.

It continues our income push (if not with maximum aggression), and positions us to hold the Logistics situation at a tolerable +3 surplus for Q2 and then surge in Q3, because we should be close to completion of both a +4 Logistics railroad phase and a +8 Logistics shipyard program.

It also almost certainly takes some of the sting out of the housing crisis with the wave of apartments, while resuming progress on the arcologies.

We work on the Philadelphia, bolt more point defense weapons on our ships, finish the Red Zone hover-ambulance project.

We resume some agricultural work (hopefully addressing a major strategic vulnerability of the Green Zones by improving their water supply before the upcoming war), develop caffeinated kudzu, and do some mad science on the side!

Void Stalker said:
You need to catch up in the thread- my current view is we can probably pair a glacier next turn with another round of orb comms and dump all 5 infra into housing.

Heh. While you were writing this, I was doing exactly that.

I want to start Philly 2 but with wanting to get 1 or 2 dice into 30R research in service we are still quite constrained.

Ehhh, yes. It's not so bad.

Current thoughts is 1 glacier and 1 vein mine for next turn (getting 2 rz harvest done this turn means we still have 1 glacier phase open).

Huh. I was thinking it'd be better to just slam out another round of Red Zone harvesting. Sure, not as much immediate income, but it positions us to do a fourth round of glaciers in Q3. Also costs less immediate Tib dice up front than a round of vein mines.

By the way, I was in large part using @Derpmind 's numbers (her bonuses when I AnyDiced out the odds myself, her probabilities plain and simple in some cases), so I'm systematically underestimating chances of success by at least a few percentage points across the board and I know it. The estimates are still close enough, and I'd rather be wrong and say "22+ % chance" than assert exact numbers that end up being wrong because I don't remember how Seo's ramp-up bonus works.

Lightwhispers · Oct 12, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
BUDGET:
505 R/turn

We should be at 515R: 365 +145 = 510 + 5R leftover from last plan.

Also, we probably want to do the Yellow Zone Qualifications Initiatives very soon.

Void Stalker · Oct 12, 2021

One thing to keep in mind is we are picking 1 or 2 advisers come results as well as the +2 bonus. Also hmm I would like to go harder on income given how much we are still keep dice on idle, plus the desire to pursue even more expensive projects in Q3.

doruma1920 · Oct 12, 2021

[ ] Plan: Arcology Now
-[ ] Infrastructure 5/5 Dice + 1 Free Die, 90R
--[ ] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 409/650, 6 Dice, 90R, 97%
-[ ] Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice + 1 Free Die, 120R
--[ ] Automated Civilian Shipyards 0/250, 6 Dice, 120R, 99%
-[ ] Light and Chemical Industry 0/4 Dice
-[ ] Agriculture 1/3 Dice 20R
--[ ] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 0/40, 1 Die 20R 90%
-[ ] Tiberium 5/5 Dice + 2 Free Dice, 170R
--[ ] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 1) 0/200, 4 Dice, 80R, 98%
--[ ] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 10) 18/180, 3 Dice, 90R, 94%
-[ ] Orbital 3/3 Dice, 20R
--[ ] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 4) 5/135, 3 Dice, 30R, 89%
-[ ] Services 2/4 Dice, 50R
--[ ] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 0/60, 1 Die, 20R, 77%
--[ ] NOD Research Initiatives 100/160, 1 Die, 30R, 77%
-[ ] Military 4/4 Dice, 40R
--[ ] Zone Emergency Medical Evacuation Vehicle Deployment (Sydney) 49/80, 1 Die, 96%
--[ ] Point Defense Refits 15/250, 3 Dice, 30R, 25%
-[ ] Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice + 2 Free Dice
--[ ] Focus Reallocation 1 Die
---[ ] Heavy Industry
---[ ] Tiberium
---[ ] Orbital
--[ ] Yellow Zone Qualifications Initiatives DC 150, 4 Dice, 96%

510/515R , 6/6 Free Dice, 3/12 Fusion Dice

This plan has two goals, to continue expanding our income and to finish the second stage of BZ Arcologies. Aside from the direct investment in the arcologies and in the vein and glacier mines, it supports the glacier mines by knocking out auto civilian shipyards and getting an 89% chance of getting the next phase of orbital coms done as well. The former will ensure we stay Logistics positive, the latter will give us a bit of breathing room on the Logistics front.

With the Military we are finishing the ZEMEVD commitment and starting PD refits. In agriculture finally getting some caffeine. In Services we have two 3 in 4 shots at finishing some research, the Tissue Replacements for Health, and the NOD tech now that Seo's here for his research bonus.

With Bureaucracy the goal is to reallocate from Services to Orbital and finish YZ qualification initiatives. The former cause we want to start hammering Philadelphia 2 and the latter because when we hammer Philadelphia 2 we won't have the Free Dice to spare for the initiatives.

Light and Chemical Industry is not funded because it is still not a priority.

Shaper47 · Oct 12, 2021

Narritively getting Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry up and running before doing Vein Mining is very important. We have a shortage of robots and Vein Mining is very robot heavy.

staplesdex2 · Oct 12, 2021

Will we atleast get YZ Arcologies at some point? It would help alleviate the housing problems and stick the refugees in until BZ Arcologies finish.

doruma1920 · Oct 12, 2021

staplesdex2 said:
Will we atleast get YZ Arcologies at some point? It would help alleviate the housing problems and stick the refugees in until BZ Arcologies finish.

YZ Arcologies are more expensive in Progress and Resources per Die and provide less housing then BZ Apartment Complexes. The only disadvantage of the Apartments is they cost 1 Logistics. That last bit is why I'd prefer to focus on BZ arcologies even though they are more expensive, they don't stress our strained Logistics network. But if we don't focus on BZ arcologies, cheaper housing solution is the apartments.

marids · Oct 12, 2021

For at least the next immediate turn, one more double set of Red Zone Harvesting and Glaciers should be done to return income back up to nearly the previous 4-year plan's level. Because the importance of the Red Zone Harvesting is for faster and more dice efficient income, Red Zone Abatement, and preparation for more Glaciers.

After that, until the reduction bonus for the Logistics requirement with the Glaciers has run out from completing all the newer logistically cheaper areas to mine from, Glaciers should continue to be done at least once per turn, along with Red Zone Harvesting to open them up, so that all the fast and cheap income is gained ASAP for maximized overall resource gain for the rest of the 4-year plan, not to mention all the Red Zone Abatement that would start working reclaim more territory by starting earlier than later.

Besides, there's also an income goal to be achieved anyways, so better to gain the income faster than later to make use better of the income.

Voidseer · Oct 12, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
-Snip-

This plan draft I like. You put this up for vote for Q2 and I will likely vote for it.

BoSPaladin · Oct 12, 2021

Void Stalker said:
At this point we have 21.42 vs there 22.27

Technically speaking I don't think the brotherhood actually controls all the yellow zone.

Green zone is yellow zone GDI controls, yes.

But when we create more yellow zone, some of the yellow zone is being created by GDI outposts and mining operations. So A, not many people there. And B, those area while not listed as green zones, are de facto under GDI control.

Another thing to consider is independent warlords, such as the Caravanserai, or minor warlords who GDI has convinced to retire as GDI has expanded and taken yellow zones.

Now, Nod all but certainly has their own hidden bases somewhere deep in red zones for example. So some of the red zone should be considered to be under their control.

But more or less, I don't think the number for sheer amount of ground based on tiberium tells the whole story. Not least because the blue zones tend to be massively more economically and industrially productive.

tldr: On paper Nod has more territory than us, but it tends to be poorer. About the only thing they have more of than us is more people, but a 2-1 ratio favours GDI very well because we have much more industrial output.

Lightwhispers · Oct 12, 2021

So, something that I like about finishing Medina, is the idea that there was a surge of Tiberium growth that might well have endangered it... but GDI says no.

And the rest of the GDI looks at the results of this turn, and goes "Yup, he's Granger's protege, all right. Where's the booze? We'll need it."

DecaffeinatedOwl · Oct 12, 2021

BoSPaladin said:
Navy still needs investment even if it gets to good. Navy is good for both defending our logistics/international trade and so on. And also for hitting Nod and making it harder for them to reinforce Nod positions on other continents.

Plus, if we go full stretch goals, it was at one point an option to set up naval invasions in yellow zone coastal regions and evacuate masses of people. not sure if that's still on the drawing board as something we can attempt, but would be nice.

Honestly? Not in the 4 quarters we can count on.

I think Navy wise we should go PD Refits, Orcas, Escort Carriers, Sharks and then maybe consider the assault ships as a stretch goal. Really solidify our naval superiority and cut the transport sub network.

Also:

Ithillid said:
[ ] Yellow Zone Qualifications Initiatives
Most Yellow Zone refugees that GDI has taken in have a somewhat fragmentary education. While usually competent in a field, they lack the breadth of knowledge that GDI expects for most positions. While they have so far been assigned to work, finding ways to fully qualify them will unlock a previously underutilized pool of labor (DC 90/120/150)

I think we should seriously consider this this quarter or next. It's cheap dice-wise and it probably sets back the labor crunch.

Ithillid said:
[ ] Orbital Nuclear Caches
GDI has maintained an increasingly small nuclear stockpile in fortified strongpoints around the world. During the Third Tiberium War, as in previous wars, the Brotherhood of Nod expended significant effort to seize nuclear devices. In order to better secure that arsenal, building a number of small stations in orbit should place them well out of reach of the Brotherhood.
(Progress 0/175: 30 resources per die) (Fusion) (Station)

Masterstroke prevention. Definitely complete by Q2 2059 if not before.

Incidentally, finished the omake I was talking about earlier. It's...evolved somewhat from its origins.

He blinked and held carefully still.

There had been no transition, of course. No yawning portal, nor spread of colors beyond the mortal ken, no metallic squealing chord as the hand of a God-like being reached down and idly plucked at the universe. Nothing that every two-bit sci-fi show since the invention of television on this misbegotten world had insisted on to mark the occasion.

No, there had been no warning, no warning at all. Where there was the knob under his fingers, now there was empty air. Where there was the oscilloscope, now only an expansive tangle of wires haphazardly corralled by zip ties, streaming into the open back of a strangely familiar cathode ray tube.

This, then, was the back of the workstation he had parked himself in front of. Which meant--

He had been bent over, standing, manipulating the knob with single-minded intent. Now, slowly, he straightened himself, in unwitting synchronicity with the man who had been, in this reality, bent over much the same knob, glaring down at the same oscilloscope. As that man straightened, his head dipped abruptly into the gentle glow of the imprisoned Tacitus, and his face was cast into clarity.

Truthfully, he didn't need it. It was a quite familiar face.

"And who might you be?" The imposter cautiously probed.

He snorted. "I think you know that already."

"For the sake of formality, then. This is," The imposter gestured expansively, "my home you've intruded in, spectre."

"Kane." He extended his arm.

"Ah?" A flicker of surprise, a raised eyebrow, gone instantly as the mask of control reasserted itself, an eerie mirror of his own. "But of course, you are. Kane, brother, if indeed you are." The imposter reached out with his own. They clasped arms awkwardly over the mess of displays and controls.

"I don't suppose I'm intruding at all, then?

"Not through your own fault, I think."

"How are we here?"

"Not well, I'm afraid." Frustration played across the imposter's face; the mask again penetrated. He glanced down at his hands, momentarily, and it was then that Kane saw it, glistening momentarily in the flicker of the Tacitus. "GDI has advanced, so has Tiberium, and we in between are diminished."

"Doctor Granger?" Kane guessed hurriedly, reasserting his own mask of knowledge. He couldn't allow himself to be unbalanced, not by something so minor as...that. Not now.

"You too, then?" The imposter smirked his signature smirk, the one he practiced in the mirror every morning. The effect was weirdly enhanced by the addition, but at what cost? "Well, I suppose you haven't gone very far then."

"If distance was of any relevance."

"Which leaves only the question of how."

"If I knew that--"

"Of course, of course." The imposter raised his hands in the age-old sign for peace. "If you'll excuse me, this is very delicate work." He returned to his knob, and his scope.

Kane, for his part, leaned against the cool metal casing of the containment unit, troubled by more than the question of his sudden displacement.

It was a legitimate question, of course, the cause of his appearance. And he already had half an idea as to the answer, as a matter of fact.

It was just--

Why?

Why do that to his perfectly good face?

It was quite likely that this Kane was as fastidious in his appearance as he was himself. Appearance was everything. It was no accident that...that, was there.

There had to have been a reason. Had he known what effect it would have, on a Kane? But what reason would he have to anticipate the arrival of another?

Unless the imposter had somehow brought him here--

Kane carefully squelched that thought before he could descend into yet another paranoiac spiral. If the imposter was capable of that he was quite capable of putting him into a cage fit to contain even the likes of him, if it had pleased him. Nothing he could do about that, therefore not worth planning for.

Which brought him again to the question of: why?

Unanswerable, of course. To ask would admit weakness, and this he could not do, least of all to himself. He knew quite well how dangerous he could be, given the slightest opening.

Yes, best not to ponder why a Kane in any world would do...that to himself.

"There is this," He began cautiously, "GDI had been attempting to delve into the secrets of the Scrin."

"They have, yes. The inhibitors." The imposter was still staring down at the scope, though his hand had let go of the knob.

"And the gravity drive." At this the imposter did look up. "A series of tests had been underway in orbit. All failures, of course, but they were closing in on a basic understanding. "

"And this might have been one more." The imposter scratched his chin, then began gently massaging that loathsome intruder. "Even at the worst, though, a failing drive field should simply nucleate a true vacuum within that world-line. It shouldn't be able to send anything into the next."

"But something else might have." He had crossed his arms, almost unconsciously, to ward against ancient evil. "Or someone else. You know who, of course."

"Naturally." The imposter nodded, then threw up his hands. "Pure speculation. We haven't the means to prove or disprove, not as we are now--" The imposter was suddenly interrupted by a cavernous yawn. "Ahhh...hmmph. It's been a long day, if you'll excuse me."

"There's more we must discuss." The question burned in his gullet, inflamed by the irrational and undeniable intuition that the imposter had scratched his chin, had stroked that infernal thing to emphasize its presence to him, to mock him with it.

"Tomorrow, tomorrow. I had been rather busy," the imposter gestured up at the Tacitus, swirling and flickering with barely contained power, "stabilizing this, and then you come in, and I for one am rather weary. Tomorrow will come."

"Just one thing," he insisted, the vitriol boiling up his throat, railing against his control. How dare he? How dare he?

The imposter sighed and pinched the bridge of his nose. "Fine. What?"

Kane leaned in, bracing himself against the plastic case of the scope. "Why," He hissed, "for God's sake, have you got a goatee?"

Vehrec · Oct 12, 2021

BUDGET:
515 R
6 Free dice
12 Fusion dice

515/515 Resources spent
6/6 Free Dice allocated
4/12 Fusion Dice allocated

[] Plan Blue Sky Research and Paperwork Prototype

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 70 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 409/600 (4 die, 60 R) (4/4 median)
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 1) 0/160 1 dice 10R (1/3 median)

Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice 100 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) (1 die 20R) (1/5 median??)
-[] Automated Civilian Shipyards 0/250 (4 Dice, 80 R) (65+ % chance)

Light and Chemical Industry 1/4 Dice 0 R
-[] Security Review

Agriculture 3/3 Dice 20 R
-[] Perennial Aquapoinics Bays 3 dice 30 R (3/4 Median)

Tiberium 5/5 Dice 125 R
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 10) 1/130 (1 Dice, 25 R) (5+ % chance)
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 10) 18/180 (3 Dice, 90 R) (93.5+ % chance)
-[]Railgun Harvester Development 1 die, 10 R (100% chance)

Orbital 3/3 Dice + 1 Free Dice 80 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 29/715 (4 Dice, 80 R) (4/10.5 median)

Services 3/4 Dice 60 R
-[] NOD Research Initiatives 100/160 (1 die 30R) (77% chance)
-[] Scrin Research Institutions 160/350 (1 dice 30R) (1/3 Median)
-[] Security Review

Military 4/4 Dice 50 R
-[] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 (1 die 20R) (72% Chance)
-[] ZEMEV Deployment (Sydney) 49/80 (1 die, 10 R) (96+ % chance)
-[] Point Defense Refits 15/250 (2 dice, 20R) (2/4 median)

Bureaucracy 3/3+5 Free dice Dice
-[] Focus Reallocation (flip Services to Orbital) (1 die)
--[] Infrastructure
--[] Heavy Industry or Tiberium
--[] Orbital
-[] Services Review (2 dice) (98% chance)
-[] LCI Review (2 dice) (98% chance)
--[] Yellow Zone Qualifications Initiatives DC 150 3 dice (80% chance)

Okay, so while I stole Simon Jester's pretty formatting, I made this plan up on my own earlier today and refined it when I discovered I'd made a critical error in costing it out that allowed me to spend another 20ish resources.

Infrastructure, I concentrate entirely on housing in a big push to finish the Arcologies, with a tiny bump to get some Apartments out the door before we have real trouble. I don't think we'll want more than one phase of these, and I'm fine slow-walking them. Another thing I know we'll need later and I'm fine with slow-walking is fusion reactors at the moment, so we only put one die on them-and four on Shipyards, in order to get those completed quicker and more surely. Agriculture does Perennial Aquaponics bays because those are best done quickly at the start of the turn, hurry it up! Tiberium, I almost agree with Simon on-but I divert one die to do the Railgun Harvesters. Why? Because the QM said that it would unlock 'about eight factories' which would each give +5 R. I'm willing to bet those will be easy and cheap projects that will be vital for padding our Tiberium sector as we enter Q3 and Q4 and start feeing other areas, while still getting us about 40R/turn more once fully spooled due to fewer harvesters getting exploded or having to return to a factory. Orbital-4 dice on Philadelphia II, as I've previously said was my plan to walk it out over the rest of the year. Services takes 2 actions, both based on research-I grab both the initiatives that Granger started, so we can finish Scrin easily next turn and hopefully grab NOD this turn. Maybe there'll be something better for our Quatarite friends there? Military, I strip one die from PD because I want to grab Shimmer Shields this turn-they're too good to leave sitting in a bunker forever, and I hope to research all three of our idle Scrintechs before the end of the year. I nearly forgot the ZEMEV so thanks for reminding me about that. Finally, I go all in on Bureaucracy, dumping all five remaining free dice into it to do two reviews, reallocate, and qualification projects.

BoSPaladin · Oct 12, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice 100 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 409/600 (1 die, 15 R) (1/4 median)
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 1) (4 dice, 40 R) (95+ % chance)

Since you've got 15 resources spare would it be possible for you to spend another 10 resources by shifting 2 dice on apartment complexes to blue zone arcologies? So of those 5 dice there, 3 on arcologies and 2 and apartment complexes?

Decim · Oct 12, 2021

510/515 Resources spent
6/6 Free Dice allocated

[] Plan Conservative Gun Development

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 75 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 409/600 (5 die, 75 R)

Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice 100 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) (1 die 20 R)
-[] Automated Civilian Shipyards 0/250 (4 Dice, 80 R)

Light and Chemical Industry 0/4 Dice 0 R

Agriculture 3/3 Dice 40 R
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development (1 die, 20 R)
-[] Yellow Zone Purification Initiatives (2 Dice, 20R)

Tiberium 5/5 Dice +2 Free Dice 130 R
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (6 Dice, 120 R)
-[] Railgun Harvester Development (1 die, 10 R)

Orbital 3/3 Dice 30 R
-[] Expand Orbital Communications Network (3 Dice, 30 R)

Services 1/4 Dice 20 R
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development (1 Die, 20 R)

Military 4/4 Dice +3 Free Dice 130 R
-[] Orca Refit Deployment (3 Dice, 45 R)
-[] ZEMEV Deployment (Sydney) 49/80 (1 die, 10 R)
-[] Railgun Munitions Development (1 dice, 20R)
-[] Tube Artillery Development (1 dice, 20R)
-[] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development (1 dice, 25R)

Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice + 1 Free Die
-[] Yellow Zone Qualifications Initiatives (3 dice)
-[] Private Industrial Automation

Basically, what I'm going for here is to not further strain our logistics or our military. I'm doing this by focusing on Vein Mining over Red Zone mining. 6 Dice give pretty good odds of getting 40-60 income from completing two phases.

From there, the rest of my plan revolves around getting a synergy bonus from doing 4 gun related Development projects at once. Those being Railgun Harvesters, Railgun Munitions, Tube Artillery, and Plasma Weapons (the warhead one). The goal being to basically set up the designs for the guns and ammo that GDI is going to need/want for the next 10 years in one go and applying it to the weakest point in GDI's economy, the Harvester.

Heavy Industry and Infrastructure then cover the next demanding point right now, Housing and Logistics, leaving us in a much better overall position come Q3 on those metrics.

Sadly, doing this did mean that Services and LCI are basically lying fallow, but unless I had another 100 R to play with, something was going to get overlooked, and of all the categories, I felt as though those two were the least important at the moment.

Dmol8 · Oct 13, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
We have two major problems, one source of good news, and several options:

A) Logistics is still pretty shot.

B) We are literally right on the brink of running out of housing and having to stick refugees under canvas.

The good news is, with the budget up to about 505-ish RpT, we're under much less of a crunch. We can afford to spend less aggressively on Tiberium and still knock out another phase of glacier mines next turn, which gives us a LOT more room to do other things (including supporting infrastructure, though that's small-i infrastructure).

For instance:

1) We can seriously consider doing Automated Civilian Shipyards. It's expensive, but the +8 Logistics payoff for probably about ~80 R and four Heavy Industry dice is quite attractive and it doesn't compete directly with housing.

2) We can slam out commsat phases, possibly one though probably not two without Free dice. This is kind of a stopgap measure, but we can sure use the +Logistics in the short run.

3) We can spend Free dice on Infrastructure- something we should seriously consider doing this Plan in general, even given our large space commitments which will be considerably eased if we reallocate the extra Services die to Orbital. At 10 R/die we can very easily slam out a phase of Blue Zone Apartment Complexes with four dice, then throw three dice at railroads which probably won't finish it but at least gets us close and gives us a reasonable chance of coming out ahead on Logistics in Q3 when combined with us working on the aforesaid projects (1) and (2).

Yeah which is why my preliminary plan does Expanding Orbital Communications alongside Johannesburg Personal Robotics Factory so we get +3 Logistics while we slam out a round of Blue Zone Arcologies.

Also just read your plan and I don't get why you are rushing Philadelphia so much. Like I get the bonuses we get from that, but rushing it at the expense of other areas and DIce now that we can activate all dice and make them useful is just wasteful.

Void Stalker said:
Hmm we get +2 from 1st settled in next turn, but Philly is still 20R per dice. With reallocation in Q2 we could do 4+1 free in Q3 while also hitting orbital defense laser and starting ASAT 4 in Q3, then we try and finish philly 4 in Q4 and overflow to pound philly 5 out quickly. That lets us do orb comms next turn to cover the logistics for a glacier mine to provide income for hitting philly and asat hard (as well as service research such as scrin and nod)

I'm not going for the Scrin or Nod research until Q3 because we have medical research to do first that will get us more Refugees and with that more Labor and maybe save our Qatarite Defectors bonus.

Shaper47 said:
Narritively getting Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry up and running before doing Vein Mining is very important. We have a shortage of robots and Vein Mining is very robot heavy.

My preliminary plan has Nuuk with 5 Dice on it so we surge the first two rounds of it.

marids said:
For at least the next immediate turn, one more double set of Red Zone Harvesting and Glaciers should be done to return income back up to nearly the previous 4-year plan's level. Because the importance of the Red Zone Harvesting is for faster and more dice efficient income, Red Zone Abatement, and preparation for more Glaciers.

After that, until the reduction bonus for the Logistics requirement with the Glaciers has run out from completing all the newer logistically cheaper areas to mine from, Glaciers should continue to be done at least once per turn, along with Red Zone Harvesting to open them up, so that all the fast and cheap income is gained ASAP for maximized overall resource gain for the rest of the 4-year plan, not to mention all the Red Zone Abatement that would start working reclaim more territory by starting earlier than later.

Besides, there's also an income goal to be achieved anyways, so better to gain the income faster than later to make use better of the income.

No. I'll roll out a round of both Glaciers and Red Zone Harvesting in my plan and then do another round of Glaciers and Red Zone line containment next quarter, but after that it's Vein Mines all the way as we need to deal with those.

Edit: it's not it.

BOTcommander · Oct 13, 2021

Just reminding everyone that we have 1325 progress, or 21 dice, worth of mandatory space force projects and that [ ] Orbital Nuclear Caches is looking pretty useful to keep Nod from stealing our nuclear arsenal.

Simon_Jester · Oct 13, 2021

Lightwhispers said:
We should be at 515R: 365 +145 = 510 + 5R leftover from last plan.

Huh. Yeah, that's true. I wanted to be conservative about it and I couldn't remember if we'd started from 360 or 365, and whether we had any leftovers.

Believe me there is no trouble shaking loose something to do with the extra 10 R.

Also, we probably want to do the Yellow Zone Qualifications Initiatives very soon.

I mean, I'm sure it'll give us a nice big slug of Labor or a very useful Labor trickle, but:

1) Dice reallocation is really frickin' important, because doing it sooner rather than later significantly alters our options for getting certain projects done.

2) We're not in immediate danger of running out of Labor; it's not an action we take to put out fires right away.

3) It's very much an action we want to spend all three Bureaucracy dice on, and there is absolutely no way I'm putting free dice on Bureaucracy for 2058Q2 when we have so much else to do with them in Infrastructure and Orbital.

So... yes, it's important, but no, I refuse to do it this turn while the Bureaucracy dice are still needed for the kind of stuff we routinely do as start-of-Plan activity like "reorganize to meet our new priorities." Not without a much more urgent labor shortage than we face at the moment.

Void Stalker said:
One thing to keep in mind is we are picking 1 or 2 advisers come results as well as the +2 bonus.

Yes, but since such things will basically always make outcomes better, I prefer to plan around what we have and treat the extra advisor boosts as a happy welcome bonus.

Also hmm I would like to go harder on income given how much we are still keep dice on idle, plus the desire to pursue even more expensive projects in Q3.

I strongly respect that- but there are two issues.

First, if we want to widen our Logistics buffer, we need to commit considerable resources to doing so. We can't afford to just trickle-charge our Logistics expansion; we need to invest, despite our limited budget. Especially if we're doing more glacier mines, which we really would want to.

Second, the housing crisis is actually getting really fucking urgent. We need to actually finish a Housing project literally this coming turn, or we're down to "just in time delivery," which is a really bad look when you're trying to provide people with homes to live in. We're already stuffing people into every nook and cranny we can find that has a roof, even if said nook is in fact a fortified bunker under sporadic Nod bombardment.

The problem is, it's not really possible for us to actually complete a housing project next turn without spending Free dice on infrastructure. Neither arcologies nor apartments offers us any confidence of accomplishing that.

So all of this adds up to a turn where it's very, very difficult to justify knocking off two phases of glaciers without a lot of risk of us weakening our posture in the future- including our ability to do further glacier mining.

I suppose I could do something like take the three Free dice I had planned for the Philadelphia and put them on vein mining, then we'd have at least a reasonable chance of landing +20 or +25 RpT or so from that.

doruma1920 said:
-[ ] Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice + 1 Free Die, 120R
--[ ] Automated Civilian Shipyards 0/250, 6 Dice, 120R, 99%

I'm going to be blunt, I'd never vote for this level of dice spending on Automated Civilian Shipyards. No matter how badly we need the Logistics or how urgently, it's not a phased or staged project. We'd almost inevitably be wasting at least 20-40 R unless we're extremely unlucky.

Heavy overspending on projects that aren't phased is never a good idea unless you absolutely need the project done this turn.

-[ ] Tiberium 5/5 Dice + 2 Free Dice, 170R
--[ ] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 1) 0/200, 4 Dice, 80R, 98%
--[ ] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 10) 18/180, 3 Dice, 90R, 94%

It should be noted that realistically, four dice on vein mining don't leave us much better off in general than four dice on red zone tiberium activities, not directly.

The former cause we want to start hammering Philadelphia 2 and the latter because when we hammer Philadelphia 2 we won't have the Free Dice to spare for the initiatives.

We do in fact have a choice of how hard we want to hammer the Philadelphia. Especially since we need an extended period of income reconstruction. To even use all the dice we'd get from Philadelphia Phase 5, we'd want to pump up our budget to something like 750-800 RpT just to have a reasonable amount of flexibility.

Light and Chemical Industry is not funded because it is still not a priority.
[/QUOTE]

Shaper47 said:
Narritively getting Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry up and running before doing Vein Mining is very important. We have a shortage of robots and Vein Mining is very robot heavy.

No, it's not important. It's important if we want to do MUCH vein mining, but a phase or two of exploratory work should be fine. If you mean 'narrative' in a literal sense, it may even make more sense that way- if the demand for a lot of vein-mining robots is what drives people to go to the extreme length of building a giant robot factory in the middle of fucking Greenland in the first place!

staplesdex2 said:
Will we atleast get YZ Arcologies at some point? It would help alleviate the housing problems and stick the refugees in until BZ Arcologies finish.

In the immediate short term, as long as we don't outright drown on the Logistics subject, Blue Zone Apartment Complexes is a superior solution to Yellow Zone Arcologies. They're cheaper to build. They're less likely to come under immediate military threat if Nod attacks. They house 50% more people per phase despite each individual phase having near-identical Progress costs and lower Resource costs. And they're probably nicer to live in.

Voidseer said:
This plan draft I like. You put this up for vote for Q2 and I will likely vote for it.

Thanks. You're likely to see it with some modifications. I may craft a variant that more or less ignores the Philadelphia and tries to scrape loose some more resources and dice for vein mining or other +RpT options.

TripleTango said:
Honestly? Not in the 4 quarters we can count on.

I think Navy wise we should go PD Refits, Orcas, Escort Carriers, Sharks and then maybe consider the assault ships as a stretch goal. Really solidify our naval superiority and cut the transport sub network.

I think the decision about whether to go for the 'offensive' or 'defensive' navy is a tough decision.

Also:

I think we should seriously consider this this quarter or next. It's cheap dice-wise and it probably sets back the labor crunch.

For me, next quarter, not this one. I'm strongly for it but I want all three Bureaucracy dice, and I don't consider the 'realignment' action to be something I'm comfortable delaying. We need to pivot to Orbital.

Masterstroke prevention. Definitely complete by Q2 2059 if not before.

Oh definitely. I'm going to start wanting to spend dice on Space Force projects (including this one) in, roughly, 2058Q3 or Q4. This is gonna be one of the first things on the menu.

The imposter sighed and pinched the bridge of his nose. "Fine. What?"

Kane leaned in, bracing himself against the plastic case of the scope. "Why," He hissed, "for God's sake, have you got a goatee?"

Hahahahaaa!

Vehrec said:
BUDGET:
515 R
6 Free dice
12 Fusion dice

515/515 Resources spent
6/6 Free Dice allocated
4/12 Fusion Dice allocated

[] Plan Blue Sky Research and Paperwork Prototype

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 70 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 409/600 (4 die, 60 R) (4/4 median)
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 1) 0/160 1 dice 10R (1/3 median)

The problem here is that this gives us no assurance of actually getting any Housing next turn and we really, really need it. The arcologies project is out of 650 Progress, not 600, now, and four dice only give us a ~60% chance of completion.

And, of course, no Logistics from Infrastructure nor any progress towards it here.

Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice 100 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) (1 die 20R) (1/5 median??)
-[] Automated Civilian Shipyards 0/250 (4 Dice, 80 R) (65+ % chance)

I think you'd be better off just skipping the fusion plants and finding something else to do with the Resources. We'll need the next tranche of reactors but they're not urgent, and we're still leaving a lot of dice fallow.

Tiberium 5/5 Dice 125 R
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 10) 1/130 (1 Dice, 25 R) (5+ % chance)
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 10) 18/180 (3 Dice, 90 R) (93.5+ % chance)
-[]Railgun Harvester Development 1 die, 10 R (100% chance)

I dunno, I don't think Railgun Harvester is important enough to justify spending Resources on it rather than rummaging up the funds for something else.

Orbital 3/3 Dice + 1 Free Dice 80 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 29/715 (4 Dice, 80 R) (4/10.5 median)

The thing is... you're not spending any Infrastructure dice on Logistics. Your Heavy Industry +Logistics project may or may not finish- it's not a sure thing. And you're not spending any Orbital dice on Logistics.

This puts us pretty close to running out of surplus.

Services 3/4 Dice 60 R
-[] NOD Research Initiatives 100/160 (1 die 30R) (77% chance)
-[] Scrin Research Institutions 160/350 (1 dice 30R) (1/3 Median)
-[] Security Review

Mm. Honestly I'd rather pick something else for the second Services die. Among other things, until after we do the security review I kind of hesitate to try to fully prototype and examine the Scrin tech, since that's the stuff Nod doesn't already know. Plus, just, y'know, the general expense.

Military 4/4 Dice 50 R
-[] Shimmer Shield Development 0/60 (1 die 20R) (72% Chance)
-[] ZEMEV Deployment (Sydney) 49/80 (1 die, 10 R) (96+ % chance)
-[] Point Defense Refits 15/250 (2 dice, 20R) (2/4 median)

I respect the logic, but if we're gonna do a 20 R military project, I'd rather work on the war factories or the Orca refits or sensor deployments or any of a number of other things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in shimmer shield work, but given that we won't have the funds for deployment right away, it's not our most impactful project option. Whereas a heavy sensor rollout before, say, 2059Q1 might badly fuck over Nod's plans for the next war.

Bureaucracy 3/3+5 Free dice Dice
-[] Focus Reallocation (flip Services to Orbital) (1 die)
--[] Infrastructure
--[] Heavy Industry or Tiberium
--[] Orbital
-[] Services Review (2 dice) (98% chance)
-[] LCI Review (2 dice) (98% chance)
--[] Yellow Zone Qualifications Initiatives DC 150 3 dice (80% chance)

This just feels like a bad idea. We should put off Yellow Zone Qualifications (which is basically a +Labor project when we still have a +20 Labor surplus) so that we can afford to concentrate Free Dice in areas where we urgently need to build up physical projects.

Infrastructure, I concentrate entirely on housing in a big push to finish the Arcologies, with a tiny bump to get some Apartments out the door before we have real trouble. I don't think we'll want more than one phase of these, and I'm fine slow-walking them.

What, apartments? I strongly disagree.

That there is the key to getting our people out of commieblocks in some reasonable semblance of a timely manner, and also to keeping us from having to stuff Yellow Zone refugees in vulnerable areas where Nod is likely to attack soon. We should build multiple phases of apartments, effectively replacing the existing commieblocks as our "buffer" housing.

Tiberium, I almost agree with Simon on-but I divert one die to do the Railgun Harvesters. Why? Because the QM said that it would unlock 'about eight factories' which would each give +5 R. I'm willing to bet those will be easy and cheap projects that will be vital for padding our Tiberium sector as we enter Q3 and Q4 and start feeing other areas

Oh?

Maybe. Although I suspect the payoff on building those factories won't be high enough to justify it as opposed to additional +RpT actions on the larger scale (like more glacier mines). Not at first, at least.

BoSPaladin said:
Since you've got 15 resources spare would it be possible for you to spend another 10 resources by shifting 2 dice on apartment complexes to blue zone arcologies? So of those 5 dice there, 3 on arcologies and 2 and apartment complexes?

That would entirely defeat the purpose of the whole plan, because instead of being sure of finishing apartments for people to actually live in while we finish the arcologies, we'd be left with unfinished arcologies, unfinished apartments, and a lot of angry people waiting in line for either of them.

Decim said:
From there, the rest of my plan revolves around getting a synergy bonus from doing 4 gun related Development projects at once. Those being Railgun Harvesters, Railgun Munitions, Tube Artillery, and Plasma Weapons (the warhead one). The goal being to basically set up the designs for the guns and ammo that GDI is going to need/want for the next 10 years in one go and applying it to the weakest point in GDI's economy, the Harvester.

I don't think this synergy works out the way you want.

Tube Artillery isn't a railgun project and so benefits from none of the others except Plasma Weapons.

Railgun Harvesters uses a known railgun type that is too small in caliber to be likely to accommodate early generation plasma warheads (which are more like missile warheads than bullets). Railgun Munitions might benefit Railgun Harvesters, but for that to work we need to do the munitions project first.

So what you should be doing is splitting this up. Work on Plasma Warheads this turn so we have plasma shells for the artillery next turn, and Railgun Munitions this turn so we have more advanced ammo for the Railgun Harvesters next turn (and also for things like the Havoc, the Super Orca, and the MBT-7 Paladin tank that we should roll out soon).

Furthermore, doing fewer development projects (most of which would then need major deployment projects we can't possibly fund all at once) frees up resources to do other important things like putting a die on war factory expansions, rolling out sensors, and so on.

Dmol8 said:
Yeah which is why my preliminary plan does Expanding Orbital Communications alongside Johannesburg Personal Robotics Factory so we get +3 Logistics while we slam out a round of Blue Zone Arcologies.

I'm going to be blunt, doing the personal robotics factory for the +1 Logistics it gives is an incredible waste of resources.

Spending about four dice and 60 R to get +1 Logistics and also +4 Consumer Goods that we don't need right now is like splurging to buy opera tickets when your household budget barely stretches to making sure the electric bill gets paid on time.

Also just read your plan and I don't get why you are rushing Philadelphia so much. Like I get the bonuses we get from that, but rushing it at the expense of other areas and DIce now that we can activate all dice and make them useful is just wasteful.

You're wrong about this, but the math has already been done repeatedly so you can look it up elsewhere.

About the only thing that's likely to pay off as well or better than aggressive investment in the Philadelphia is aggressive investment in RpT income increase, and you aren't a big fan of doing that either.

BOTcommander said:
Just reminding everyone that we have 1325 progress, or 21 dice, worth of mandatory space force projects and that [ ] Orbital Nuclear Caches is looking pretty useful to keep Nod from stealing our nuclear arsenal.

Yeah. This is definitely something we should do Real Soon. It's just that we're still at a phase of the plan where doing 20 R/die projects is kind of daunting.

Dmol8 · Oct 13, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
I'm going to be blunt, doing the personal robotics factory for the +1 Logistics it gives is an incredible waste of resources.

Spending about four dice and 60 R to get +1 Logistics and also +4 Consumer Goods that we don't need right now is like splurging to buy opera tickets when your household budget barely stretches to making sure the electric bill gets paid on time.

You're wrong about this, but the math has already been done repeatedly so you can look it up elsewhere.

About the only thing that's likely to pay off as well or better than aggressive investment in the Philadelphia is aggressive investment in RpT income increase, and you aren't a big fan of doing that either.

I'm not simply doing it for the +1 Logistics and +4 Consumer Goods since as you yourself have noted previously the Personal Robotics Factory is also a pathway to better automation.

And on the topic of me being wrong I have already stated that I'm not playing this quest with the same logic you are. I'm going for an RpT increase while getting ready to start working on Vein Mines next turn and finishing one more round of Glacier Mining all the while completing multiple other actions that will help our political supporters.

I'm also planning on completing Nuuk as soon as possible to get us to the point where we have enough Capital Goods to do Factory Refits completely and free up a Die or two in Military. Then hardening our chip production.

Faraway-R · Oct 13, 2021

Void Stalker said:
Of note start of Q2 (2nd turn of the quest):
Blue: 17.35

We are now back to the BZ where it was at quest start, this is a major accomplishment. Meanwhile a bit of NOD territory was eaten. At this point we have 21.42 vs there 22.27

The pedant in me expects the Q2 stats to be after QM rolled the Tiberium encroachment dice for the first time. So I would assume that the actual start-of-quest ratio was nice even values of 18% BZ, 32% YZ, 50% RZ. We simply haven't known it before getting the census.

Simon_Jester said:
But I'm definitely in favor of an aggressive push to get it done well before the end of 2059, even if I think "by the end of 2058" is too restrictive and makes it too hard for us to repair our income.

Let's agree that Phase 4 for Philly is "by the end of 2058" deadline, and it will be fine with me.

Ithillid said:
Of the Qatarites, between a sixth and a quarter have received the infusions. It is something that outside of general action was fairly limited in scope, and the Qatarites were, by far, less likely to take it. You are likely to see a reduced bonus at some point in the coming years without radical action, but even if you had not picked Seo, it would never go away entirely.

This is a lot better than the worst case scenario I expected, but it's still something we should work on.

Simon_Jester · Oct 13, 2021

Dmol8 said:
I'm not simply doing it for the +1 Logistics and +4 Consumer Goods since as you yourself have noted previously the Personal Robotics Factory is also a pathway to better automation.

I have speculated that it might be. This does not make it a good idea to do that project at just any arbitrarily chosen time regardless of the state of our budget or what else is going on.

And on the topic of me being wrong I have already stated that I'm not playing this quest with the same logic you are.

Yes, you seem to be picking priorities more or less at random.

Each priority is something that individually makes sense ("we need Nuuk for Capital Goods" or "unlocking possible prerequisites for possible Labor-saving personal robotics projects later is good").

But then you just sort of shrug and ignore context and secondary questions. Questions like "will we be able to afford those hypothetical personal robotics projects any time soon, will we even need them any time soon, and if not why are we bothering to spend money unlocking them?"

Or questions like "do we need to work on Nuuk this turn to have the Capital Goods we need for the next few turns, given that we currently have a substantial Capital Goods surplus here, now, in the present moment?"

Or "can we afford the resources it will cost to build Nuuk, a very expensive project, along with mandatory space development, also expensive, and military options like sensor upgrades, also expensive, if we have not prioritized expanding our Resource income as fast as possible?"

Just namedropping a shopping list of important things you want done isn't the same as having a plan that makes sense.

...

You started this Plan wanting us to slow-roll our RpT income increase. Now you want us to waste large amounts of time and money (money we wouldn't even have had in order to waste in the first place!) on projects that have doubtful short term value (Johannesburg), or that merely add to our stockpile things we already have a lot of (Nuuk). and you do this while neglecting other priorities that have much greater and more obvious short and long term value (Resource income, building up a surplus Logistics buffer to permit further glacier mining and in anticipation of impending warfare).

Faraway-R said:
Let's agree that Phase 4 for Philly is "by the end of 2058" deadline, and it will be fine with me.

I am not prepared to commit to completing Philadelphia Phase 4 by the end of 2058, but I am prepared to commit to serious effort on the project, insofar as this is consistent with other goals like "income increase" and "starting to put Free dice into the military as soon as reasonably practicable so we don't abruptly get pounded flat by a Nod masterstroke in mid-2059."

Dmol8 · Oct 13, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
I have speculated that it might be. This does not make it a good idea to do that project at just any arbitrarily chosen time regardless of the state of our budget or what else is going on.

Yes, you seem to be picking priorities more or less at random.

Each priority is something that individually makes sense ("we need Nuuk for Capital Goods" or "unlocking possible prerequisites for possible Labor-saving personal robotics projects later is good").

But then you just sort of shrug and ignore context and secondary questions. Questions like "will we be able to afford those hypothetical personal robotics projects any time soon, will we even need them any time soon, and if not why are we bothering to spend money unlocking them?"

Or questions like "do we need to work on Nuuk this turn to have the Capital Goods we need for the next few turns, given that we currently have a substantial Capital Goods surplus here, now, in the present moment?"

Or "can we afford the resources it will cost to build Nuuk, a very expensive project, along with mandatory space development, also expensive, and military options like sensor upgrades, also expensive, if we have not prioritized expanding our Resource income as fast as possible?"

Just namedropping a shopping list of important things you want done isn't the same as having a plan that makes sense.

...

You started this Plan wanting us to slow-roll our RpT income increase. Now you want us to waste large amounts of time and money (money we wouldn't even have had in order to waste in the first place!) on projects that have doubtful short term value (Johannesburg), or that merely add to our stockpile things we already have a lot of (Nuuk). and you do this while neglecting other priorities that have much greater and more obvious short and long term value (Resource income, building up a surplus Logistics buffer to permit further glacier mining and in anticipation of impending warfare).

By your own speculation the Johannesburg Personal Robotics Factory needs to be built before or alongside Nuuk to get the best out of whatever bonus it conveys. So I am doing that.

We have:

Ithillid said:
Capital‌ ‌Goods:‌ Gargantuan ‌Surplus‌es ‌(+10)‌ ‌

10 Capital Goods and we need:

Ithillid said:
[ ] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 1)
As a first critical phase of refits, there are the various specialist vehicles that GDI is not at this time looking to replace. Things like the RIGs, Firehawks, and MCVs are unlikely to make any significant changes in the near future. Simply by supplying marginally more capital goods and some relatively simple installations, major improvements in the availability of spare parts and actual fully functional vehicles can be made.
(Progress 0/60: 20 Resources per die) (-2 Capital Goods)
(Progress 0/90: 20 Resources per die) (-4 Capital Goods)
(Progress 0/100: 20 Resources per die) (-5 Capital Goods) (+1 Energy)
(Progress 0/100: 20 Resources per die) (-5 Capital Goods) (+1 Energy) (+1d2 Military Dice)

16 Capital Goods and we get that with Nuuk at:

Ithillid said:
[ ] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1)
GDI needs ever more heavy robots, and ever greater supplies of automation. With projects in the Red Zones, and potentially underground mines, the current construction yards and systems are completely insufficient. Nuuk is planned to be the largest existing robotics construction work. While it will be expensive, it will also provide masses of capital goods.
(Progress 0/160: 20 resources per die) (-1 Labor)
(Progress 0/320: 20 resources per die) (+4 Capital Goods, -2 Labor, -4 Energy)
(Progress 0/640: 20 resources per die) (+16 Capital Goods, -2 Labor, -8 Energy)
(Progress 0/1280: 20 resources per die) (+32 Capital Goods, -2 Labor, -8 Energy)
(Progress 0/2560: 20 resources per die) (+64 Capital Goods, -2 Labor, -16 Energy)

the 3rd Phase. So no my plan is not random and I would have already started on factory refits if not for needing to do Point Defense at the same time.

With more resources available my plans need to be remade as my goals remain the same: Do as much build up and infrastructure hardening as possible before the war starts. So I'm starting Factory Refits and Philadelphia in Q3 and I am going to need all the resources I can get which is why I'm doing all I can to get the other kinds of resources Labor included.

My plan isn't some scattershot wishlist that I want done. It's the most efficient use of resources that gets us into more Dice and more use of those Dice while at the same time balancing that with our various needs. You're the one who is only focusing on Glaciers Mining and Philadelphia to the point you've dropped Blue Zone Arcologies from your plans for now.

I'm planning on spamming 5 Dice on Railroads in Q3 to catch up to our Logistics needs, but for now having 9 Logistics with my plan is enough to take a 5 Logistics loss let alone a 2-3 Logistics loss in case we are still mining Tiberium glaciers with the next round of that action.

Simon_Jester · Oct 13, 2021

Dmol8 said:
By your own speculation the Johannesburg Personal Robotics Factory needs to be built before or alongside Nuuk to get the best out of whatever bonus it conveys. So I am doing that.

I'm pretty sure that's not "by my own speculation." You're going to have to prove that claim yourself; don't throw it back on me.

Furthermore Nuuk has numerous phases. The later phases are so expensive we may not be able to finish them during the current Plan at all. It's not clear to me why you think we have to build the personal robotics factory now to unlock something important that can't wait a year or two.

We have 10 Capital Goods and we need 16 Capital Goods and we get that with Nuuk at:

There are very real advantages to doing some phases of the war factory refits now, before finishing Nuuk Phase 3. Increased military production doesn't have consequences we can easily track with Treasury's indicators, but the consequences are still real.

With more resources available my plans need to be remade as my goals remain the same: Do as much build up and infrastructure hardening as possible before the war starts. So I'm starting Factory Refits and Philadelphia in Q3 and I am going to need all the resources I can get which is why I'm doing all I can to get the other kinds of resources Labor included.

For that analysis to make sense, you need to be thinking ahead to when you will need the Labor. At current rates we're not on track to run out of surplus labor for at least several more quarters. Speculative Labor-saving projects that may exist are important, but not urgent.

It's like how we're not planning to spend all our Heavy Industry dice building more fusion reactors. It's not because we won't eventually need more Energy, it's because we don't need more Energy right this minute and there are more important things to do with those dice and resources.

We have enough Labor-saving options to get us through the next several turns; we don't need to tear everything apart looking for more when those options are expensive and have little short-term value of their own.

My plan isn't some scattershot wishlist that I want done. It's the most efficient use of resources that gets us into more Dice and more use of those Dice while at the same time balancing that with our various needs. You're the one who is only focusing on Glaciers Mining and Philadelphia to the point you've dropped Blue Zone Arcologies from your plans for now.

You will notice that I've mostly dropped the arcologies because a different project for accomplishing the same goal more efficiently appeared: the apartment complexes.

See, the reason I'm focusing on glacier mining and the Philadelphia is that the former gives us the ability to use our dice (because it costs Resources to activate dice, especially if we're focused on profitable projects), and the latter gives us... more dice. My third priority, which isn't yet getting full treatment, is the military, because of Nod- but for the first turn or two that's not where the Free dice are going because of the other priorities.

When I talk about your priorities as a scattershot wishlist or something like it, it's because you keep treating as priorities things that just will not matter in the short term, and that we can much more efficiently deal with in the long term if we address short-term priorities first.

I'm planning on spamming 5 Dice on Railroads in Q3 to catch up to our Logistics needs, but for now having 9 Logistics with my plan is enough to take a 5 Logistics loss let alone a 2-3 Logistics loss in case we are still mining Tiberium glaciers with the next round of that action.

In fairness to you, with the commsats you can get away with it as a Logistics-neutral plan.. but we don't get nine Logistics out of your plan this turn, and honestly railroad spam isn't a great strategy for the rest of this year when taken alone without Automated Civilian Shipyards.

The problem is that if we're trying to put together Infrastructure spending, we face multiple overlapping problems:

1) Getting out in front of the housing crisis by supplying enough good housing quickly that the people living in the worst housing have an opportunity to move out.

2) Doing enough work on arcologies that our political commitment to them aren't too badly undermined.

3) As mentioned, Logistics.

This requires juggling apartments (which are the only practical way to solve (1)), arcologies (2), and of course railroads (3). Being able to use Heavy Industry dice to build up the backbone of a sizeable Logistics buffer (+8 from the shipyards) makes this analysis and this problem much easier to deal with.

Void Stalker · Oct 13, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
First, if we want to widen our Logistics buffer, we need to commit considerable resources to doing so. We can't afford to just trickle-charge our Logistics expansion; we need to invest, despite our limited budget. Especially if we're doing more glacier mines, which we really would want to.

My current thoughts for next turn is 1 glacier mine phase and 1 vein mine phase (as opposed to rz harvest). The 2nd is 20-30 as opposed to 10-20 of rz harvest and does not expand our logistics or mil commitments. Maybe drop a dice on rz harvest to set us up for a 4th glacier in Q3/Q4 but I would like to shift towards vein mine to finish out the year and as a way to get additional income (while racking up small amounts of YZ mit). This leaves us free to dump 5 dice on arcologies to finish the current phase and get some good overflow to the next phase- which buys us 4 turns for more housing.

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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The Paladin

The Paladin

On again, off again lurker.

The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web

The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web

The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web