Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

[Simon_Jester]

I never said we needed to complete either the Arcologies, or the Railroads, next turn. Nor does the narrative suggest anyone thinks we should.
So why are you arguing that it can't be done, when that is totally irrelevant?

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Because at least this turn, we have the budget to finish or nearly finish Mecca (which has its own opportunity costs for slow-walking).

It's going to be very hard for us to make significant progress on either the arcology issue or the logistics issue, because those are going to be megaproject-level investments.

I'd rather remove a major commitment from our plates to eliminate the distraction, than have to continue dealing with the distraction for a long time.

Mecca/Jeddah is not a High Priority project, nor did we have a specific deadline for our extra commitment. Other projects are falling behind because we are choosing to neglect them.

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Yes, and that always happens in a Planquest unless it's a Monty Haul quest designed to be too easy. That doesn't mean it's beneficial to hop frantically from project to project before finishing the first one.

With the Stabilizer network nearly done, we should direct our free dice towards making solid persistent progress on the BZ Arcologies and the Railway Expansion, and Mecca/Jeddah.

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Okay, how does that look in practice? Draft a plan.

Bear in mind that if we want better than about 70% confidence of finishing the stabilizer in 2057Q4, we need five tiberium dice on the stabilizer, that Mecca needs at least one tiberium die, and that it's significantly desirable to do a security sweep of Orbital to chase down any Nod saboteurs if we want the stabilizer to be secure. Oh, and don't forget that we want ASAT upgrades to secure the stabilizer from direct attack.

Also bear in mind that we're very short on Energy and that the easiest way to get it is with a round of fusion reactors... but that we need 5-6 dice on fusion power to have any reasonable confidence of getting it.

It's hard to shake loose enough Free dice for rail or arcology projects that you or someone like you couldn't justify saying "we're ignoring it again," without slow-walking Mecca to the point where the competition for dice ensures we just have this same damn fight again next turn.

So @Ithillid I know that in this universe because of Tiberium and the global wars research is skewed towards military deployment and Tiberium abatement, but how far away are we from this: Chinese scientists report starch synthesis from carbon dioxide ?

Cause having the option of trading Energy for Food would be useful.

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Not really. We have plenty of Food surplus and plenty of relatively easy projects for increasing Food output. Energy is a much scarcer resource for us, harder to come by.

 

[Dmol8]

Not really. We have plenty of Food surplus and plenty of relatively easy projects for increasing Food output. Energy is a much scarcer resource for us, harder to come by.

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And in space? Especially in the inner part of the system we are currently exploring?

 

[Taffer86]

[X] Plan Measured Spending

 

[Lightwhispers]

And in space? Especially in the inner part of the system we are currently exploring?

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We currently are able to provide Earth-grown food for all our space presence with a trivial amount of our lift capacity. All of the planning I have done, or seen others do, involves developing the Shala space station for spaceborne food growth. Which means that it likely still will not be a meaningful issue. It's easier to just carry a supply of MREs in case of emergency, in most cases.

Now, rather than synthesis of starches, synthesizing sugars would probably be more interesting for our Agriculture department, since IIRC pretty much all of our sugars current come from beets.

 

[Vehrec]

Speaking of agriculture, have a preview of next-turn curtousy of the discord server. Good news, only 15 resources per die. Bad news, relatively progress heavy for one point of capital goods.

[ ] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1)
With spider cotton finally having reached a state where it can be used en masse, the only remaining task is to begin building large scale plantations where it can be grown in bulk. While some applications require only small amounts of the silk to produce useful amounts of goods, these fields are few and far between.
(Progress 0/170: 15 resources per die) (+ Capital Goods)
(Progress 0/180: 15 resources per die) (+ Capital Goods)
(Progress 0/190: 15 resources per die) (+ Capital Goods)
(Progress 0/200: 15 resources per die) (+ Capital Goods)
(Progress 0/210: 15 resources per die) (+ Capital Goods)

Click to shrink...

 

[RCNAnon]

That's... kinda depressing but given we're generally ok on food... might be worth a couple turns.

 

[Void Stalker]

15R with no labor or energy cost for cap goods is useful since we can use that to shore up our cap good production at fairly low cost

 

[trooperist]

Speaking of agriculture, have a preview of next-turn curtousy of the discord server. Good news, only 15 resources per die. Bad news, relatively progress heavy for one point of capital goods.

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Well the action did say that yields would always be low.

 

[Crazycryodude]

And in space? Especially in the inner part of the system we are currently exploring?

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We can feed every human in space with 1-2 Union launches per month, it's a rounding error compared to the amount of industrial mass we're lifting even on a normal turn (much less the recent Stabilizer blitz), and our lift requirements are so low because there's only a couple thousand people in space at any given time. The canteen at Treasury HQ goes through more food than our entire space presence does, it's not even one tenth of one plus, just below our level of abstraction. Once we have actual cities with significant permanent populations in space then food will become more of an issue, but the plan is to have them grow their own - that's why Shala is a prerequisite to Lunar colonies and the like, it's where we pioneer space agriculture.

 

[staplesdex2]

So that Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Development that costs -10 PS? Yeah it's starting to look pretty tempting right now for our immediate power needs.

 

[RCNAnon]

That was under discussion as a Seo thing given his leanings, definitely looking towards it as well.

 

[marids]

So that Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Development that costs -10 PS? Yeah it's starting to look pretty tempting right now for our immediate power needs.

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It's always been a good option to at least explore, if only to see how much more cost efficient it could be whether in terms of time or resource spent compared to fusion, especially if it uses Tiberium dice bonuses. I'd even say it's less of an if and more of a when will people be desperate enough to tap into it as enough HI projects and insufficient dice would make it tempting enough.

But so long as it isn't taken the next immediate turn, I can't see it being taken for the starting phase of the next 4-year plan at all due to how most Tiberium dice will be needed for income boosts first. So personally I'd say maybe another year or two before it's seen as an actual viable option at this rate.

 

[Crazycryodude]

Honestly fusion's got us covered for now, fusion exchanges HI dice for power at a pretty sustainable rate for the next few years of expected demand. Tiberium power would take Tib dice instead and they're a lot more valuable being used for income instead of power production. Honestly they might ALWAYS be more valuable being used to produce income and abatement over power, although I expect Seo is eventually going to do the theoretical research just to explore the technology even if we don't end up using (first generation) Tiberium power. It's blue sky research that carries a pretty hefty cost, so even though we'll do it eventually I don't think it's a priority until after the next election. We're going to have to spend the next 2 years rebuilding our income and getting ordered by the politicians to spam arcologies before election day.

 

[Dmol8]

Speaking of agriculture, have a preview of next-turn curtousy of the discord server. Good news, only 15 resources per die. Bad news, relatively progress heavy for one point of capital goods.

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Sigh. Will adjust my plan accordingly:

[ ] Plan In the Eye of the Maelstrom v 4.5
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 95 Resources
-[ ] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 235/600 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 4) 244/640 20 Resources per Dice, 4 Dice = 80 Resources
Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice 100 Resources
-[ ] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants 0/350 20 Resources per Die, 5 Dice = 100 Resources
Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 55 Resources
-[ ] Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers 69/250 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
-[ ] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner 0/80 20 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 40 Resources
-[ ] Security Reviews 1 Die
Agriculture 3/3 Dice 40 Resources
-[ ] Agricultural Support 127/150 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
-[ ] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 0/170 15 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 30 Resources
Tiberium 5/5 Dice + 2 Free Dice 140 Resources
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 4) 244/640 20 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 40 Resources
-[ ] Tiberium Stabilizers 1673/2000 30 Resources per Die 20 Resources per Fusion Die, 5 Fusion Dice = 100
Orbital 3/3 Dice 50 Resources + 1 Free Die
-[ ] GDIS Pathfinder 237/300 30 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 30 Resources
-[ ] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 7) 33/90 15 Resources per Die 10 Resources per Fusion Die, 2 Fusion Die = 20 Resources
-[ ] Security Reviews Orbital 1 Die
Services 4/4 Dice 105 Resources
-[ ] NOD Research Initiatives 0/160 30 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 30 Resources
-[ ] Scrin Research Institutions 0/350 30 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 60 Resources
-[ ] Advanced Prosthetics Deployment 0/??? 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
Military 4/4 Dice + 2 Free Die 130 Resources
-[ ] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 2) 26/300 25 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 50 Resources
-[ ] ASAT Defense System (Phase 3) 26/225 30 Resources per Die 20 Resources per Fusion Die, 3 Fusion Dice = 60 Resources
-[ ] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards Rosyth 137/185 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice + 1 Free Die
-[ ] Security Reviews Light and Chemical Industry 2 Die
-[ ] Security Reviews Orbital 2 Die

95+100+55+40+140+50+105+130 = 715/715

Alright let's recap what my plan does:

- 4 Infrastructure Dice and 2 Tiberium Die on Mecca to get it done this plan and then 1 Die on Blue Zone Arcologies because 7 Dice on Mecca is overkill
- 5 Dice on Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants to gets us some power gain
- 1 Die on Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers, 2 Die on the Reykjavik Macrospinner to harden our Myomer supply and a Security Review
- 1 Die on finishing Agricultural Support and 2 Die on Spider Cotton Plantations as it's the first Phase and as such will give us a bonus of some sort on our other projects once complete
- 5 Dice on Tiberium Stabilizers to get them finished this plan
- 1 Die to finish GDIS Pathfinder, 2 Die on Orbital Cleanup to gamble for some more resources starting next FYP and a Free Die to do a Security Review
- 3 Dice on the Research Initiatives to get them close to finishing for the next FYP and the Prosthetics Deployment to get towards some Labor gains
- Long Range Sensors get 2 Dice to get closer to being fully deployed, 3 Dice on ASAT to do a Phase of it and 1 Die on Rosyth to finish it
- 2 Die on 2 Security Reviews each to get them done so that only Services has not been reviewed in more than 4 years. We do that Security Review after Granger retires

That's it. If it turns out that Prosthetics Deployment is 10 Resources per Die I'll just switch all 3 Light and Chemical Industry Dice on Reykjavik Macrospinner since it's more expensive than Pharmaceutical Synthesis.

 

[Durabys]

Why do I have this sinking feeling that Nod is going to try to build an anti-orbital weapon and power it with a peaker plant?😑😟

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Giant lasers are very power hungry

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And this is why we need Orbital Drop Regimental Combat Teams. Because the site of such anti-orbit laser will be DEFINITELLY covered with Ion Disruptors up the wazoo. And we will need to drop a mammoth tank company on top of such a site within 12 minutes of initial firing or all our assets, including the evolution inhibitors, are going to get roasted to slag in the next 6 hours before we manage a traditional land and air based assault.

 

[Phant0m5]

@Ithillid I had asked a couple questions that never got answered. Was there a reason, or...?

Here:

Out of curiosity, if we set the same launch pace as the current inhibitor project for a full evacuation to space, assuming there was magically already enough living space for everyone up there, how long would it take to deplete our current population? And the rest of the world?

Also, would a moon base be easier or harder than permanent orbital living space? I assume it would be easier to expand once it's built and colonized, but harder for the initial setup phase due to the distance from ground support?

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Aaaaand here:

If we finish the last phase of the experimental facility before moving on to the Tokyo fabricator, will we have the option to pivot into carbon processors over there?

I mean, I assume we'd still need 5nm silicon, so that might still be the first step? But further development into more advanced silicon seems like a waste if we can start putting out enough carbon.

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I mean, the first set was more idle curiosity than anything, but still.

 

[Ithillid]

Here:

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Decades, minimum. And you can't do that, because you are already losing fusion dice on this kind of megaproject. You would need a lot more launch capacity to manage that level of mass evacuations.

Aaaaand here:

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It won't really change much. It will be future, non-Tokyo fabricators, many of which will be smaller scale and more dispersed.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Sigh. Will adjust my plan accordingly:

[ ] Plan In the Eye of the Maelstrom v 4.5
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 95 Resources
-[ ] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 235/600 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 4) 244/640 20 Resources per Dice, 4 Dice = 80 Resources
Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice 100 Resources
-[ ] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants 0/350 20 Resources per Die, 5 Dice = 100 Resources
Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 55 Resources
-[ ] Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers 69/250 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
-[ ] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner 0/80 20 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 40 Resources
-[ ] Security Reviews 1 Die
Agriculture 3/3 Dice 40 Resources
-[ ] Agricultural Support 127/150 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
-[ ] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 0/170 15 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 30 Resources
Tiberium 5/5 Dice + 2 Free Dice 140 Resources
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 4) 244/640 20 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 40 Resources
-[ ] Tiberium Stabilizers 1673/2000 30 Resources per Die 20 Resources per Fusion Die, 5 Fusion Dice = 100
Orbital 3/3 Dice 50 Resources + 1 Free Die
-[ ] GDIS Pathfinder 237/300 30 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 30 Resources
-[ ] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 7) 33/90 15 Resources per Die 10 Resources per Fusion Die, 2 Fusion Die = 20 Resources
-[ ] Security Reviews Orbital 1 Die
Services 4/4 Dice 105 Resources
-[ ] NOD Research Initiatives 0/160 30 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 30 Resources
-[ ] Scrin Research Institutions 0/350 30 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 60 Resources
-[ ] Advanced Prosthetics Deployment 0/??? 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
Military 4/4 Dice + 2 Free Die 130 Resources
-[ ] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 2) 26/300 25 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 50 Resources
-[ ] ASAT Defense System (Phase 3) 26/225 30 Resources per Die 20 Resources per Fusion Die, 3 Fusion Dice = 60 Resources
-[ ] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards Rosyth 137/185 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice + 1 Free Die
-[ ] Security Reviews Light and Chemical Industry 2 Die
-[ ] Security Reviews Orbital 2 Die

Click to shrink...

This plan is better, but...

- 1 Die on finishing Agricultural Support and 2 Die on Spider Cotton Plantations as it's the first Phase and as such will give us a bonus of some sort on our other projects once complete

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How do you possibly know that there will be such a bonus?

Besides, right now we have a large Capital Goods surplus. Arguably it's worth the up-front Resource cost to get +1 more even if we don't really need it, but is there anything else we could do, either with the same Agriculture dice, or with 30 Resources freed up by leaving the Agriculture dice unused? What about just storing those Resources for next Plan, when frankly we'll need 30 Resources right away more than we need +1 more Capital Goods?

 

[F0lkL0re]

With Vehrec's reveal of the cost of the spider cotton plantations I've updated my plan

@Simon_Jester are you going to criticize my plan at all? I think it's the only one you haven't said anything about.

[] Plan End of an Era
Infrastructure 5/5 110R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 2 dice 30R 0%
(Progress 235/600: 15 Resources per Die) (++++ Housing, +++ Consumer Goods, -- Energy) (High Priority)
-[] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 4) 1 Tiberium die + 3 dice 80R %
(Progress 244/640: 20 resources per die) (-- Labor, - Logistics) (10 Political Support) (+2 Red Zone Abatement, +2 Yellow Zone Abatement, +5 RpT, +120 Processing Capacity)
Heavy Industry 5/5 100R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 1) 5 dice 100R 61%
(Progress 0/350: 20 Resources per Die) (+++++ Energy) (High Priority)
Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 70R
-[] Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers 2 dice 30R 21%
(Progress 69/250: 15 resources per die) (+++ Health, -- Energy)
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (phase 1) 2 dice 40R 94%
(Progress 0/80: 20 resources per die)
Agriculture 3/3 45R
-[] Agricultural Support 1 die 10R 100%
(Progress 127/150: 10 resources per die)
-[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 1 die 15R 0%
(progress 0/170: 15 resources per die) (+ Capital Goods)
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 1 die 20R 91%
(Progress 0/40: 20 resources per die) (High Priority)
Tiberium 5/5 100R
-[] Tiberium Stabilizers 4 fusion dice + 1 free fusion die 100R 96.4%
(Progress 1673/2000: 30 resources per die) (---- Capital Goods) (Increases time between mutation rolls from 1d4 to 1d4+1) (fusion)
Orbital 3/3 10 fusion dice 50R
-[] GDIS Pathfinder 1 die 30R 68%
(Progress 237/300: 30 resources per die)
-[] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 3) 1 fusion die + 1 free fusion die 20R 72%
(Progress 13/135: 15 resources per die) (++ Logistics) (5 Political Support) (Fusion)
Services 4/4 60R
-[] NOD Research Initiatives 1 die 30R 0%
(Progress 0/160 : 30 resources per die)
-[] Domestic Animal Programs 3 dice 30R 87%
(Progress 0/200: 10 resources per die) (-- - Food, ++ Consumer Goods) (5 Political Support)
Military 4/4 110R
-[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 3) 3 Fusion dice 60R 52%
(Progress 26/225: 30 resources per die) (Fusion) (high priority)
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 1 die + 2 free dice 30R 3%
(Progress 3/300: 10 Resources per die) (-- Energy) (High Priority)
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards
--[] Rosyth 1 free die 20R 80%
(Progress 137/185: 20 resources per die) (- Capital Goods, -- Energy, - Labor) (Very High Priority)
Bureaucracy 3/3
-[] Security Reviews (Orbital) 1 Orbital die + 2 dice 99%
(DC 55 + 1 operations die)
-[] Security Reviews (Services) 1 Services die + 1 die + 1 free die 99%
(DC 55 + 1 operations die)
Free Dice 6/6
Resources 645/660 Reserve 0/55

 

[Phant0m5]

How do you possibly know that there will be such a bonus?

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It... might actually have military applications?

@Ithillid if spider cotton is strong enough to supplement industrial materials, can we weave it into super-durable/bullet resistant uniforms? Or undersuits for our zone armor?

Nevermind, reading comprehension failure on my part.

 

[Void Stalker]

Are we due for any other new actions? Also keep in mind that we want to roll over resources for next turn and there are lower cost actions that we will want finished in most if not all categories

 

[Lightwhispers]

Services 4/4 60R
-[] NOD Research Initiatives 1 die 30R 0%
(Progress 0/160 : 30 resources per die)
-[] Domestic Animal Programs 3 dice 30R 87%
(Progress 0/200: 10 resources per die) (-- - Food, ++ Consumer Goods) (5 Political Support)

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Just a quick comment - we probably want to put dice into the Scrin research project, too.

It... might actually have military applications?

@Ithillid if spider cotton is strong enough to supplement industrial materials, can we weave it into super-durable/bullet resistant uniforms? Or undersuits for our zone armor?

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That's quite literally the +Capital Goods that comes from the project. There is no evidence that it will provide quantifiable additional benefits.

 

[Phant0m5]

Just a quick comment - we probably want to put dice into the Scrin research project, too.

That's quite literally the +Capital Goods that comes from the project. There is no evidence that it will provide quantifiable additional benefits.

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... yeah, that was a reading comprehension failure on my part. Sorry.

That said, I'm pretty sure the +capital goods thing stands on its own, without consideration to its military applications. We do use Kevlar in a number of industrial applications, and a stronger material grown from plants should be in equal if not greater demand.

 

[Simon_Jester]

It... might actually have military applications?

@Ithillid if spider cotton is strong enough to supplement industrial materials, can we weave it into super-durable/bullet resistant uniforms? Or undersuits for our zone armor?

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I don't think it's actually stronger than the existing artificial fiber we already use for that purpose. It's just much, much cheaper.

With Vehrec's reveal of the cost of the spider cotton plantations I've updated my plan

@Simon_Jester are you going to criticize my plan at all? I think it's the only one you haven't said anything about.

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Not a lot to say that I haven't already said. I don't know if spider cotton plantations are a good investment at the moment, because while there's effectively no opportunity cost to spending Agriculture dice for the immediate future, there is an opportunity cost to spending an average of about 45 Resources (to roll three dice) to get each point of Capital Goods. We have to weigh the value of the extra point of Capital Goods against the other things we could do with the 45 Resources.

For example, funding an extra die of Scrin research to capitalize on Granger's bonus to get that program rolling, which I'd be delighted if your program did.

Your choice to invest in commsats is arguably a very good one, by the way. It's actually an extremely efficient way to rack up Logistics, competitive with the Infrastructure projects on offer even before you count the +Political Support benefits. There are arguments for other options (cleanup for extra Resources, starting a station build phase), but commsats are not a bad call.

I'm a bit ambivalent about starting Phase 4 of shell plants before we do tube artillery development. Because I'm worried that we need tube artillery development and that after we've done it we'll be saddled with a lot of factories for making ammunition that only fits obsolete guns. I'd personally rather divert the dice into ablatives (just as much of a military priority), or something more specialized and similarly cheap like point defense refits.

Or, y'know, tube artillery development, which addresses the same problem the shell plants do- that we can't supply ammo to our gunners fast enough. The difference is that better artillery works the demand side of the problem (expend half as many shells to kill the same number of Noddies, enabling us to kill twice as many total). Whereas shell plants address the supply side (twice as many shells to kill twice as many Noddies). The military demands that we build shell plants instead of better guns because they tend to prioritize solving immediate problems rather than long-term problems, and because making more shell plants isn't their problem so from their perspective it's a free action. Whereas from our perspective it uses five Military dice.






(Progress 137/185: 20 resources per die) (- Capital Goods, -- Energy, - Labor) (Very High Priority)
Bureaucracy 3/3
-[] Security Reviews (Orbital) 1 Orbital die + 2 dice 99%
(DC 55 + 1 operations die)
-[] Security Reviews (Services) 1 Services die + 1 die + 1 free die 99%
(DC 55 + 1 operations die)
Free Dice 6/6
Resources 645/660 Reserve 0/55
[/QUOTE]

 

[Chimeraguard]

I'm a bit ambivalent about starting Phase 4 of shell plants before we do tube artillery development. Because I'm worried that we need tube artillery development and that after we've done it we'll be saddled with a lot of factories for making ammunition that only fits obsolete guns. I'd personally rather divert the dice into ablatives (just as much of a military priority), or something more specialized and similarly cheap like point defense refits.

Click to shrink...

According to @Ithillid on Discord IIRC, refitting the shell plants for the new guns won't be that expensive and just be rolled into the Deployment of the new tubes once development is done.

Plus, we've been operating on a shell shortage basically since we ever gave the military artillery tubes. It would be really nice to get ahead of the game for once there.