- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I won't complain if you do.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
ODST-AdvRecon
Enjoyer of Chicken Tenders
- Location
- Asia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In which part was my suggestion extremist vengeance? Did I specify or elaborate on how to go about it? Did any of my open-ended 'suggestions' outright state we pursue them to the ends of the Earth? Did I suggest murdering all of NOD? Did I suggest killing Kane?
No.
You are just assuming I'd suggest a morally bankrupt plan that would lead to complete and total self-annihilation. I suggested defeating NOD and bringing justice down on Kane, to neutralize the threat not killing them. Since when the hell did stating that GDI be victorious and Kane be brought to justice become absolutist extremist vengeance without even stating how to go about doing it?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
There is no meaningful way to pursue "justice" against Nod in the face of Nod's active armed resistance, without defeating them through lethal force.
When you indicated willingness to sacrifice the Earth and everyone who can't get to a spaceship before tiberium poisons them in pursuit of defeating Nod.
There are three plausible reasons to defeat Nod. First is self-defense, second is a general dislike of Nod in and of itself, third is a desire to punish Nod for past atrocities and get revenge.
If Nod has ceased to launch attacks, the first motive is irrelevant. The second is irrelevant compared to the continued welfare of the planet. The third should be, but rejecting a TCN proposal out of hand is, in effect, sacrificing the welfare of the planet in exchange for the third goal.
I think that you are drawing very precise, very fine-grained standards for what does and does not constitute "vengeance" versus "justice," standards that aren't really relevant to the matter at hand.
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What about blowing the tower skywards and send it into space? /half-serious
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I honestly suspect that we'd just end up with a gigantic crater in the ground with the tower hovering serenely in the middle of it.
- Location
- his hidden lair
Literally at least partially out of phase with reality right now. I'm not sure how it stays anchored in the same spot relative us- but for all we know it could actually survive if the Deathstar was to show up tomorrow and vaporize Earth. It's not a matter of firepower as far as I understand it, it's an inability to impart energy onto it.
ODST-AdvRecon
Enjoyer of Chicken Tenders
- Location
- Asia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Conflict with NOD is outright inevitable anyway. Whether it be evacuating the planet, establishing the TCN it doesn't matter. NOD would still try to and still are getting in the way. Self-defense would always be on the table but what would worry me is how hard the first punch would be and where. Would it hit and cripple the MARV fleets? Would it completely destroy the Red-zone perimeter fences? Would they pull another Philly? I dunno. But all I know is that military build-up and preparation is one way to mitigate the damage but that's reactionary. We can be more proactive with dealing with NOD and not all of them have to be a force of arms. The Yellow Zone reconstruction and development as well as diplomacy with the Forgotten are prime examples of weakening NOD without force. Do those enough times alongside continuously beating back any skirmish and attacks then NOD can be pressured to yield and surrender because of internal strife, depleted morale (loss of will to fight), a coup, etc. Well, at least for the non-fanatical ones. For the over-zealot ones, lethal force is the only option as you mentioned. But for everyone else in NOD? Maybe there is a chance.
While I would sacrifice the planet, I won't sacrifice its people. Constant construction and investment in abatement work in ensuring the people and the planet wouldn't suffer any more than it already has been a given and a guarantee action we'd take regardless of which direction we'd end up going.
The problem is if we go about staying on the planet while the TCN is being built, then Tiberium suddenly mutates, what would that mean for the people? Not good. For our current infrastructures in place? Not good either.
Should Tiberium containment fail either due to mutation or NOD tomfoolery, we'd inevitably risk losing some of our current infrastructures in time through Tiberium spread. Housing, Food, Water, Energy, Logistics, Health, Goods. All of this is currently reliant on a relatively safe and secure land area to function. A vast majority are on Earth and are at threat from both NOD and Tiberium. Meanwhile, GDI has a beachhead in establishing a monopoly over the Solar System. Untapped resources and unlimited space free and safe from both Tiberium and NOD. When the time comes that the Red Zone expands, the loss of Earth infrastructures would be negligible and people original in that area are either safely tucked in space or moved into the blue zone.
Without evacuating the planet, we'd run the risk of another housing crisis and resource crisis in the end. Because at that point, the Red Zone would only serve to squeeze everyone into tighter, dwindling safe areas, including NOD. The people are now exposed to more conflict and Tiberium since the majority would be trapped on Earth with NOD and Tiberium pressing on all sides.
- Location
- Africa
Node operatives need to be able to get in and out of the thing to carry out Kain's will and all that plus the guys inside the tower need to get supplies from the outside surely , so it stands to reason that we can exploit that to insert comandos into the tower and have them create a way for our troops to get in .
a sufficiently command and conquer solution to the invincible stronghold conundrum
a sufficiently command and conquer solution to the invincible stronghold conundrum
- Location
- his hidden lair
It's an interstellar teleportation system meant to transport megatonnes of Liquid Tiberium. It's not a matter of finding a goat path to circumvent the Hot Gates or a hidden entrance- it's not having an advanced teleportation system that can put objects out of phase with reality.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Worth noting that the lore in Kane's Wrath had even GDI's own scientists reporting they had a 15% chance of accidentally destroying the Tacitus while they were poking it.I mean, it's not outside the question that Kane was bullshitting.
There's this whole intel thing you can pick up that has GDI yelling at them to find a way to study it that doesn't risk making it explode.
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Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What about trying to lift it with scrin agrav engine harness or at least try to alter its space time anchor with gravity generators. It doesn't need to have mass to interact with gravity. Energy is also affected by gravity. And that tower is a literall supernova in terms of exotic energy.
What about mindwhammying/brainwashing individual Nod operatives that are sent inside? Like even I know it is a dum dum idea but I am literally throwing darts at an idea board right and look what it hits.
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- Location
- Africa
I am not talking about any secret passage , what I mean is to exploit the logistical necessities of the Nod forces holding up in the tower since they have to bring the tower back in reality to being in supplies, let people in and out of the tower and generally carry out Kane's will across the planet, these moments are when the tower would be vulnerable to commando infiltration so long as our intelligence guys can find us an opening
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I heard Nick Parker wants to get back at Kane for the death of Sidney Moebius on the Philadelphia.
One last suicide run grand finish, eh HAVOC?
He straps on a suitcase nuke, manages via 90s Action Hero bullshittery to get inside (while in his 90s, because bullshit 90s Action heroes are bullshit).
He and the nuke get phased out of reality once the infiltrated Noddie supply run for Kane is trans-phased into the tower...and well, one phased out nuclear bomb plus one phased out Scrin threshold tower equal one very big de-phased mountain of Scrin hypertech rubble.
Hey Kane! I got a present for ya!
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- Location
- Africa
Exactly but less senior citizens and nukes as we want the tower and its contents intactI heard Nick Parker wants to get back at Kane for the death of Sidney Moebius on the Philadelphia.
One last suicide run grand finish, eh HAVOC?
He straps on a suitcase nuke, manages via 90s Action Hero bullshittery to get inside (while in his 90s, because bullshit 90s Action heroes are bullshit).
He and the nuke get phased out of reality once the infiltrated Noddie supply run for Kane is trans-phased into the tower...and well, one phased out nuclear bomb plus one phased out Scrin threshold tower equal one very big de-phased mountain of Scrin hypertech rubble.
Hey Kane! I got a present for ya!
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Uh oh. We have a problem then.
- Location
- his hidden lair
At a certain point we have to say: 'who knows'. Given the sheer size of a threshold tower and the fact that our grav drives are volumetric- it would be obscenely expensive and complex to try and pull off. And that's without the possibility we have to try and exert gravity across multiple volumes transposed on one another in different phases. We literally don't know enough of how Scrin stasis or grav tech works to form any workable hypothesises.
Kane is fallible, and Alexa Kovacs proves that theoretically you could get a saboteur to infiltrate the Brotherhood- but in practice the vast majority of GDI's successes in covert ops against the Brotherhood rely on exploiting warlordism, and there ain't no warlords involved at the Threshold. Given it's at the heart of Ground Zero, any long term observation of the Threshold is also incredibly complicated.
We can't bank on compromising the most reliable fanatics, and we can't expect to pull a big one over Nod's best in intelligence when they'll expect it and it's on hostile ground.
Literal teleportation. The Scrin had a means of transmitting massive amounts of energy and information nigh undetectably across the planet- the odds of a similar transmitter being in the Tower are likely. Supplies? They're sitting in the worlds largest and most advanced Tiberium refinery meets Arcology.
And again, this is deep in a Red Zone we're talking about. One of the very worst. Observing the tower is no mean feat. No more than keeping eyes on a target in a radioactive, corrosive, EM generating super hurricane.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
....It's Kane. Though the idea is that Granger has 1-2 glasses and cooks with the rest; the "joke" here is that 2033 (arbitrary year pick) is both more available, but also just kind of "meh". Granger likes the label but '33 is just the widely-produced mediocre year.
As for the various comments about "my" Kane:
1.) Thank you, shucks guys.
2.) Honestly some of it is idle practice tossing out nonsense in Discord, combined with a couple things...
3.) Basically, I start with the assumption that Kane is a Scenery-Chomping Drama Queen. I take that, toss in the idea that he's terrible but not always wrong, and mix in plenty of pseudo-religious language (helped by being something of a religious person myself with plenty of history there), and finally just not restraining my tendency to purple prose over-much.
- Location
- Germany
To be fair - if there's one character I believe capable of kicking Nod butt in his 90s, it's Nick Parker. (Too bad that Firestorm done Umagon dirty)
To be fair, a) that omake was awesome, and b) I find it utterly in-character for Kane to position four Shadow teams outside Granger's house just to find out what's his preferred wine is.
I can even imagine that the Shadows took out one or two robbers or protesters, not out of the goodness of his heart (because, lacking), but because the game wouldn't be fun otherwise.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] Plan Sister Cities and Air Power Alt Military
Visitors
As a mod for the C&C Wiki, I can tell you that it's really a lot more complicated than that. The lore surrounding the Tacitus was a convoluted, confusing mess from start to finish, made all the more complex by the fact that it was written by not one, not two, but THREE companies.
So in the beginning, we have the Tiberian Sun lore, which didn't bother to explain ANYTHING about the Tacitus. All we know is that it was a vague, powerful MacGuffin with tons of knowledge in it ("The Tacitus told me of Tiberium missiles, of invulnerable flying ships, of real-time genetic mutation." - Kane). In the manual of the game, we learn that the Tacitus used to be "protected and studied by the Forgotten" before Kane tricked Tratos into translating it for him. Why does Tratos know how to translate it? How did the Forgotten find it? Who made it and for what reason? None of these things are ever explained or even discussed. But anyway, GDI gets the Tacitus by the end of the game.
Then there's Firestorm, which revealed a lot more about the Tacitus... Not all of which make sense. For starters, it's finally explicitly stated that the Tacitus is a data matrix, and that CABAL helped Tratos translate it. According to a forum post by one of the Westwood devs, it was data from the Tacitus that allowed CABAL to have a will of its own and eventually turn on mankind. You know that Ultron episode from Avengers: EMH? Yeah, it's like that.
But then we learn that the Tacitus is actually incomplete, with a small piece of it stored in some random pyramid in Bolivia, presumably for hundreds of years (it was a Mayan pyramid, which doesn't actually exist in South America, but whatever). In the GDI ending, after the two pieces were recovered from CABAL, they were found to have merged into a complete whole, and Dr. Boudreau was able to extract those "millions of teraquads of data" from it very easily, implying that the only reason it was so difficult to decipher before was because of the missing piece. So now that GDI has enough super tech to fill up a million futuristic hard drives, what will they do with it?
Well... we never found out. Tiberium Wars did a soft reboot on the franchise and ignored pretty much everything that happened before, aside from a few scattered references to events from previous games here and there. (On a semi-related note, EA seems to believe that the First Tiberium War happened in 2019 because of a reference in the Renegade manual, what.) However, we do get the first explicit mention that the Tacitus is "clearly not of this Earth" and that "all [GDI] know for certain" is that it contained a warning for a future alien invasion. An intel database entry has this line:
"The transmissions recorded from the invasion force seem to be patterned in a similar way to the data structure in the Tacitus. This leads us to believe that the invaders are the Scrin, or perhaps some faction thereof."
The term "Scrin" was first used in Tiberian Sun: this crashed spaceship was labeled "Scrin Ship" in the game. We never did find out much about it, other than that it wasn't an alien ship, but constructed by Nod using technology from the Tacitus. So it's pretty clear that "Scrin" is the name of the alien species that originally created the Tacitus. Considering the new information from TW, the Scrin seems to be a benevolent species who sent the Tacitus to Earth to warn humanity of a future invasion.
...But wait, if the Scrin are looking out for us, then what about these guys? Who the hell are they?
The aforementioned line in the Intelligence Database entry was followed up with this:
"It is clear upon closer examination that this invasion force demonstrates acute differences from the source of the Tacitus in dialect and physical form. Perhaps they shared some distant connection, or there was some ancient contact between their cultures?
One transmission we decoded using our most advanced decryption computers indicated alien chatter regarding another alien race they had previously encountered. We were unable to translate the word for the other alien race, but the encryption computer returned the terms brother, ascended, enemy and Scrin."
The aliens that invaded Earth during TW3 weren't the Scrin. They were the enemies of the Scrin.
The evidence is there if you look for it, during the "Scrin" campaign, not once do the aliens refer to themselves as the Scrin. And Kane, who knows more about these aliens than anyone else on Earth, only ever refers to them as "the Visitors". The final "Scrin" mission briefing has the invaders refer to themselves as "the Race". But the most decisive evidence is actually hidden in the game itself. In the unused subtitles feature of Tiberium Wars. If you reenable the subtitles for the first "Scrin" mission using a patch, the Supervisor, after saying "No precedent exists for viable indigenous resistance after Ichor LQ detonation event.", has a line that was subtitled but not spoken.
And what was that line?
"Species must be Scrin."
They are so interested in Earth because they think humanity is Scrin.
Then there's Kane's Wrath, which, due to being outsourced to BreakAway Games, has a lot of continuity conflicts with Tiberium Wars. The alien invaders are also explicitly referred to as the Scrin in Intel Database entries that go into detail about their culture and such. (Those entries are all labeled with [Source Unknown] or [Source Redacted], because the writers couldn't think of anyone who would actually know about this stuff other than maybe Kane.)
But I'm getting sidetracked, right, the Tacitus. The very first intel database entry you unlock in the game is about the Tacitus.
"Despite Dr. Boudreau's breakthroughs in the early 2030s, progress continues to be slow for our own attempts to interface with the device. What information it holds, and what value said information had to Kane, continue to be matters of serious concern for this agency."
This seems to be intended to address why TW!GDI didn't get access to any of the Tacitus super tech that Kane described. However, the word choice of "interface with the device" is a strange one. Boudreau already got most, if not all of the data out. She said she just needed to decipher it. Why is GDI still trying to interface with it?
Also, this game hammers it in how Kane really, really wants the Tacitus. He refers to it as "the key to ascension", and the aforementioned intel database entry also states that "the Tacitus is key to the ascension prophecies, the core mythology around which Kane built the Brotherhood of Nod". Which... also makes no sense. "Ascension" is not really a thing pre-TW. Nod's main belief was that Tiberium can bring about the next stage of human evolution, and the non-canon Nod ending for TS seems to imply that "ascension" (if that was what happened to Kane in that ending) was only for Kane himself.
But anyway, Kane's diary states that he created LEGION using preserved fragments of the Tacitus, which is why LEGION has a connection to it and can sense it in some way. In the final mission, GDI typed in so many wrong passwords on the Tacitus that it activated its lockout feature... which was apparently blowing itself up. Kane put it into LEGION just in time, however, for LEGION to apparently use it to access the not!Scrin communications network, where the AI see that the not!Scrin is planning an invasion of Earth.
Anyway, that's the whole, convoluted history of the Tacitus, spanning three companies and four games. There's a few bits of info from The Game Which Must Not Be Named as well, but nothing substantial. There's also Westwood's original ideas for the Tacitus, but I'd rather not get into that right now. I guess my whole point is, it's a convoluted mess, but only because the real-life history of this franchise is a convoluted mess.
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Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This is 230 resource plan on a
either 225 resource availability or a +10 to resources in our reserves after it is done.
Notice a lack of reserves here on the next updated resource income.
- Location
- colombia
Cooperative focus is almost assured to happen
So in thay line of thought
Is better to do housing or ligth industry grants next?
I think housing deals with a more inmediate issue,but ligth industry has potential for tech progress,google and microsoft research is no laughing matter
So in thay line of thought
Is better to do housing or ligth industry grants next?
I think housing deals with a more inmediate issue,but ligth industry has potential for tech progress,google and microsoft research is no laughing matter