Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

[Rakuhn]

This is why U-series plant number 6 is not a 5% discount and instead a Tib mining bonus. Making things out of super heavy materials saves costs, maintenance, and size in some places and increases costs and usability in other cases. They are only really useful for some things. Making household goods out of things that start off with the density and mass of depleted uranium is... ill advised. No one sane wants toilet seats heavy enough to shatter the bowl during normal use.

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Just a clarification here:
Alloys phase 6 doesn't actually produce structural alloys like phases 1-5 do. It produces 'very sharp but still very durable' alloys. The former we got from the Structural Alloys Visitor tech, the latter from the Buzzer Blades visitor tech. They were combined into a single project for convenience's sake.

 

[doruma1920]

I'm aiming to have some left over so that we have lots of R available to attack glaciers again the turn afterwards.
Although it may not be needed.

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I don't think it is needed.

Lets say for the sake of argument all our dice (outside of Bureaucracy) is costing 20 RpD minimum, with 5 dice costing 40 RpD for the Alloys, 5 on Bergen costing 30 RpD, and 3 this coming turn for IHG refits at 35 RpD, and with the cost of the die on the Gravitic Bay and the Combat Lasers cancelling out with Agriculture. That means our budget is about: 5*40 + 5*30 + 3*35 + 41*20 = 1275 R, probably less then that as there is some talk of grabbing an AEVA, which will save 20 RpD, the Agri dice will likely cost less then assumed, and there is some thought going on for security reviews which will save more.

That combined with our current budget of 1300 means we are going into Q2 with a minimum 25 Reserve and a minimum 1235 income (assuming Private Industry continues to do its thing) more if we finish a phase of Vein Mines. This implies a minimum budget of 1260.

The chances for the Borer Offensives and Deep Glacier Mines are:

-[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 4) 93/235 1 die 25R 13%, 2 dice 50R 89%, 3 dice 75R 99%
-[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 4+5) 93/460 3 dice 75R 5%, 4 dice 100R 54%, 5 dice 125R 93%
-[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4) 0/225 2 dice 60R 24%, 3 dice 90R 87%, 4 dice 120R 99%
-[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4+5) 0/450 4 dice 120R 10%, 5 dice 150R 58%, 6 dice 180R 92%

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As such I think it unlikely that we'd put more then 4 dice into Border Offensives and Deep Glacier Mines each as we don't to over complete either of them.

Assuming we put another 3 dice in IHG refits and 4 on Border Offensives and Deep Glacier Mines each that is: 3*35 + 4*25 + 4*30 = 325. Assuming a base 20 RpD cost for the remainder of the dice (not counting Bureaucracy). Thats 54 (non Bureau dice) - 11 (IHG and RZ dice) = 43 dice remaining. 43 * 20 = 860. That leaves 1260 - 860 - 325 = 75 R for discretionary budget to use Simon's term. Or enough to promote another 3 dice to Alloy Foundries with 15 R left over not counting R savings from Agriculture.

 

[Simon_Jester]

The +30 Energy Surplus is incorporated in the Dice Required Analysis.

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Well, the reason I want it is not just to achieve it, but also to maintain it even as Energy levels dip, because I'm hoping it'll unlock a "refurbish first-generation plants" action that's maybe a bit cheaper than replacing all 144 Energy worth of them and gives us facilities with more longevity.

I hope.

In short, I'm trying to give us enough of an Energy surplus that we aren't living "paycheck to paycheck." I don't really see this as a point of disagreement with you, though.

I do have some questions about your plan, specifically 'not breaking the budget' with alloy foundries. Given our current budget is 1300 R (Assuming we get the income increase from Private Industry) and your plan only uses 1145 that leaves a 155 R surplus for the following turn. We can afford to put 4-5 dice on Alloy Foundries. We probably can't afford a full meme 5 + 7 Free dice on Alloys, but 4-5 is affordable. I agree that AEVA (HI) is probably a good idea, though I might have to rearrange my own plan a bit to make it work.

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Mm. A fair point.

At the same time, part of the issue is just that there are a finite number of Heavy Industry dice. It would be folly to abandon our two dice on fusion, Chicago still needs doing, and the idea of going 5-6 dice on alloys on top of that means things get pretty restricting.

An AEVA for Infrastructure might be more appropriate considering the resent loss.

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Remember that conserving Capital Goods and Energy is still a factor here. Heavy Industry is the category where we have more onerous Plan goals and are likely to need effectively all our dice just to keep up with them. By contrast, in Infrastructure we have plenty of wiggle room to accomplish projects (especially in 2064-5) even with the loss of the bonus Gulati gave us.

The Infrastructure AEVA is a sentimental and "stretch goals" project; the Heavy Industry AEVA is potentially going to help us meet some of our toughest and most demanding requirements for the current Four Year Plan.

I'm aiming to have some left over so that we have lots of R available to attack glaciers again the turn afterwards.
Although it may not be needed.

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Reasonable. The catch is, we've seen what happens when we go full-bore shock effort against the Deep Red Zones, and it's grim. I'd like to keep our dice investment a bit more gradual this time instead of plowing forward with an umpteen-die shock effort, especially since (if I get my way) Q1 will be a 'slow' turn for Orbital and we'll want to pick up the pace in space again in Q2, which requires Free dice.

After all, this time it's not like we're desperately hard up for an extra +200 RpT so fast that it justifies a shock effort that gets Zone Troopers killed from pushing ahead too far.

 

[HousePet]

Reasonable. The catch is, we've seen what happens when we go full-bore shock effort against the Deep Red Zones, and it's grim. I'd like to keep our dice investment a bit more gradual this time instead of plowing forward with an umpteen-die shock effort, especially since (if I get my way) Q1 will be a 'slow' turn for Orbital and we'll want to pick up the pace in space again in Q2, which requires Free dice.

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Well, I wasn't thinking full bore into Deep Red.
I was thinking some into Deep Red, some into Containment Lines, some into normal Vein Mining and some into Refits. Maybe into Inhibitors as well.

 

[Nottheunmaker]

The most I see being set in stone in Heavy Industry is another two dice on the new fusion and probably repulser plate research. The new techs are bound to mess with any plan beyond that.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Well, I wasn't thinking full bore into Deep Red.
I was thinking some into Deep Red, some into Containment Lines, some into normal Vein Mining and some into Refits. Maybe into Inhibitors as well.

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What, all at once?

I don't know, I don't think we should just throw all our Free dice at Tiberium at once without a clear reason. All those projects still matter, but some of them are totally not urgent and can just as easily wait three months (the IHG refinery refits and vein mines). Anything involving containing the Red Zones is worth doing quickly, don't get me wrong, but we've got plenty of time to do our other projects without piling on everything at once in parallel.

The most I see being set in stone in Heavy Industry is another two dice on the new fusion and probably repulser plate research. The new techs are bound to mess with any plan beyond that.

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Eh. It's very unlikely that anything we pick up will be more desirable than alloys, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong. And leaving Chicago half-finished probably won't sell.

So I'm pretty sure the winning plan will have some combination of "two fusion, probably-maybe repulsorplates, probably-maybe AEVA, X Chicago dice, Y alloy dice." The only question is the exact ratio there.

 

[Phht]

Q3 is still Monsoon season, right? My thought if so is Q2: Border Offensives 4D, IHG Refit 3D. Q3: Super Glaciers 4D, IHG Refit 3D. Then Karachi 4-7D Tib in Q4. Fill in free dice as deemed necessary.

My reasoning for not doing BO and Glaciers same turn is that IIRC we would need to complete RZBO Phase 4 to unlock DRZTGM Phase 4 (though I guess it could be BZRO phase + 1 max glacier phase workable like RZ Tib Harvesting > Glaciers currently is). So might as well do something that gives 1-2 phases of RZBO and works on the refits, then following turn hit the glaciers for 1-2 phases and more refits, then we dive into Karachi. Though given that we need to complete RZBO before 2064, shift some dice Q3-4 as needed to complete all phases of RZBO (Q4 4D Karachi, 1-3D RZBO if necessary? delay glaciers from Q3 if required?).

This next turn? I dunno, 3D Vein Mines, 3D IHG Refits, 1D BZ Inhibitor? In all honesty, I do want to see if Stage 10 vein mining completion unlocks something new, and 3D on it would give a 20% chance of clearing Stage 10.

 

[Derpmind]

such I think it unlikely that we'd put more then 4 dice into Border Offensives and Deep Glacier Mines each as we don't to over complete either of them.

Assuming we put another 3 dice in IHG refits and 4 on Border Offensives and Deep Glacier Mines each that is: 3*35 + 4*25 + 4*30 = 325. Assuming a base 20 RpD cost for the remainder of the dice (not counting Bureaucracy). Thats 54 (non Bureau dice) - 11 (IHG and RZ dice) = 43 dice remaining. 43 * 20 = 860. That leaves 1260 - 860 - 325 = 75 R for discretionary budget to use Simon's term. Or enough to promote another 3 dice to Alloy Foundries with 15 R left over not counting R savings from Agriculture.

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We can't put any dice into the Deep Glacier Mines without first unlocking another stage. We'll likely aim to do both remaining Border Offensive stages in a single turn instead.

 

[doruma1920]

We can't put any dice into the Deep Glacier Mines without first unlocking another stage. We'll likely aim to do both remaining Border Offensive stages in a single turn instead.

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Thanks for clarifying. So just 4 dice on Border Offensives then as the Deep Glaciers won't be unlocked and that gives a 54% chance of Phase 5? We still probably don't want to put the 5th die on Border Offensives given that the Deep Glaciers will be done in Q3/Q4 and we aren't desperate for cash.

This next turn? I dunno, 3D Vein Mines, 3D IHG Refits, 1D BZ Inhibitor? In all honesty, I do want to see if Stage 10 vein mining completion unlocks something new, and 3D on it would give a 20% chance of clearing Stage 10.

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I agree with this for the most part, but I'd rather get Tiberium Security Reviews over a third Vein Mines die as we know we didn't get everyone there and in Military and can't really shake loose a Free die for it in my current Plan draft. Speaking of made some edits to my plan draft.

---

Budget:
1205/1300 R
7/7 Free Dice, 1/1 Erewhon

Projected Q2 Budget: 1220 (Current Income) + 15 (Private Industry) + 95 (Reserve) + 30 (Vein Mines) * 83% = 1354.9 R

ENERGY BALANCE:
13 (Current) + 4 (DAE) - 4 (Alloy Foundries) - 2 (Vert Farms) - 1 (Dairy) - 4 (AEVA) - 2 (Zrbite) - 2 (GFZA) = 2 Energy (possible +19 from fusion, +? from tarberries)

CAPTIAL GOODS BALANCE:
12 (Current) - 1 (Vein Mines) - 1 (Gravitic Bay) – 3 (AEVA) - 1 (GFZA) = 6 (Potentially +12 from Chicago, +4 from Bergen, and +1 from Spider Cotton)

[] 2063Q1 Draft Plan Surprise Audit With Alloys And AEVAs

-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 100 R)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) 387/995 (5 dice + 1 HI dice, 100 R) (4% chance)

-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 5 Free Dice, +34 bonus, 280 R)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) 387/995 (1 die, 20 R) (see above)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 3) 186/550 (5 dice, 200 R) (87% chance)
--[] 2nd Gen. CC Fusion Plants (Phase 1) 144/325 (2 dice, 40 R) (53% chance)
--[] Second Generation Repulsorplate Development 0/60 (1 die, 20 R) (95% chance)
--[] AEVA (1 die locked)

-[] Light Industry (5/5 Dice, +24 bonus, 150 R)
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 235/690 (5 dice, 150 R) (15% chance)

-[] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29 bonus, 95 R)
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 4) 181/230 (1 die, 15 R) (96% chance)
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 2) 163/190 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 0/160 (2 dice, 30 R) (72% chance)
--[] Tarberry Plantations (Phase 1) 0/??? (2 dice, 30 R) (??% chance)

-[] Tiberium (7/7 dice, +39 bonus, 165 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 9) 22/175 (2 dice, 40 R) (83% chance)
--[] IHG Refits (Phase 1) 0/240 (3 dice, 105 R) (80% chance)
--[] Tiberian Prediction Algorithms 80/120 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Security Review (1 die locked)

-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + Erewhon, +34 bonus, 170 R)
--[] Medium Density Housing 310/335 (E die, 20 R) (91% chance)
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 292/430 (1 die, 30 R) (17% chance)
--[] Fusion Shipyard 380/475 (1 die, 20 R) (60% chance)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 92/530 (4 dice, 80 R) (14% chance)
--[] Fruticulture Bay 225/335 (1 die, 20 R) (45% chance)

-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +35 bonus, 80 R)
--[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Deployment (Heavy Industry) 0/200 (3 dice, 60 R) (92% chance)
--[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 79/240 (1 die, 20 R) (1/2 median)

-[] Military (7/7 Dice + 2 Free die, +31 bonus, 145 R)
--[] SADN (Phase 1) 0/250 (3 dice, 60 R) (57% chance)
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment (Phase 1) 317/380? 3 dice, 60 R) (??% chance)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 6) 28/165 (1 die, 20 R) (10% chance)
--[] Combat Laser Development 0/80 (1 die, 25 R) (72% chance)
--[] Security Review (1 die locked)

-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 0 R)
--[] Security Review (Tiberium) (1 die) (95% chance)
--[] Security Review (Military (1 die) (95% chance)
--[] Security Review (Bureaucracy) (1 die) (95% chance)
--[] Security Review (Bureaucracy) (1 die locked)

Infrastructure: Chicago. There are arguments to putting dice into Rail to support RZ operations in the near future, however, given that the project description is now more general infrastructure (supported by QM post here) it seems less important to me as getting Chicago online. Something my plan needs Infrastructure dice for due as the Heavy Industry dice are being used by Alloy Foundries.

Heavy Industry: One die to activate Chicago and one die to active AEVA (HI) in Services. The maximum number of dice on 2CCF for our ever growing power needs. A die on repulsor plate development for better tech and potentially better Tib processing. Five dice on Alloy Foundries to get a good 87% chance of success. I've laid out my reasoning for the Alloys here. To summarize they alloy us to do 33% more stuff, which includes getting more STUs quicker.

Light And Chemical Industry: Bergen to allow greater 2CCF throughput.

Ariculture. A die on Vertical Farms and Dairy Ranches to complete the current Phase. The remaining 4 vary in my head between Agriculture mechanization, Spider Cotton, and Tarberries. We are probably going to need the Spider Cotton and Tarberries to keep our economy running until North Boston and 2CCF come online respectively.

Tiberium: A die on Security Review for the Surprise Inspection part of the Plan. A die on Prediction Algorithms as the better we know how Tiberium is going to behave the more we will be able to combat it. Then 3 dice on IHG Refits to start that plan requirement while we still have spare processing and 2 dice on Vein Mines to continue removing Tiberium from the Earth's crust.

Orbital: A die on each of the Bays we worked on last turn to drive them towards completion, with the one on the Medium Housing Bay being Erewhon. The remaining 4 dice on Shala to give a chance of that completing.

Services: 3 dice on AEVA (HI) to get improved progress in that category. The remaining die on Kamisuwa for Ocular research.

Military: 3 dice on SADN and Zrbite to continue to roll those out. The former as a guarantee against NOD and the latter to help against the Red Zones.Then a die each on GFZA, Combat Lasers, and Security Review. The GFZA because we still need to finish 5 more phases of it and ensuring everyone has some power armor to play with. The Combat Lasers to get laser guns across the board for our military. The die for Security Review for the Surprise Inspection part of the Plan.

Bureaucracy: The Surprise Inspection part of the Plan. Putting a die on looking at the ones who watch the watchers ( with another locked for that) and a die each on looking into Military and Tiberium. The idea is we not only sweep the next department on our list, but also the two places we know that weren't fully cleared. Could easily change this to have two dice on sweeping Military and Tiberium with no sweep of Bureacracy, which would ensure those categories were successfully swept, but this seems more thematically appropriate. Will probably put a 'Focused Audit' version of this plan with two dice on sweeping Military and Tiberium and none on Bureacracy.

 

[Drahcir]

Normally i completely ignore draft plans, but since i noticed it in every single one i decided to bring it up.

Wont the medium housing bay auto-complete next turn since it's within the orbital die bonus?

 

[Crazycryodude]

Normally i completely ignore draft plans, but since i noticed it in every single one i decided to bring it up.

Wont the medium housing bay auto-complete next turn since it's within the orbital die bonus?

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Sometimes Ithillid gives us delayed autocompletions on certain projects but there's no hard and fast set of circumstances where that always definitely happens. So until the update is up and explicitly says the housing bay will autocomplete we're gonna plan as if we have to finish it manually.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Normally i completely ignore draft plans, but since i noticed it in every single one i decided to bring it up.

Wont the medium housing bay auto-complete next turn since it's within the orbital die bonus?

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Well, if it does, it won't be hard for us to find something else useful for Erewhon to do, eh?

My design philosophy for plan drafts (which Doruma and Cryodude, above, share even if we sometimes argue about details) is to be pessimistic in budgeting for unknown project parameters. For example, two dice should easily be enough to complete Zrbite Weapons Phase 1, except that we don't know what the critical failure will do and so it is desirable to plan ahead for needing a third die to make up an extra +50 to +100 Progress or something. Likewise, when I was first crafting plans with second generation fusion reactors, I budgeted 30 R/die for them, not because I knew that was what they'd take, but because I wasn't sure, and thought they might cost more than first generation reactors what with the superconductors and emergency backup force field generators and whatnot.

It's much easier to revise a plan to take advantage of dice and resources that you won't have to spend after all than it is to revise a plan to reflect "oh crap, it's worse than I thought."

 

[Drahcir]

Sometimes Ithillid gives us delayed autocompletions on certain projects but there's no hard and fast set of circumstances where that always definitely happens. So until the update is up and explicitly says the housing bay will autocomplete we're gonna plan as if we have to finish it manually.

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Well, if it does, it won't be hard for us to find something else useful for Erewhon to do, eh?

It's much easier to revise a plan to take advantage of dice and resources that you won't have to spend after all than it is to revise a plan to reflect "oh crap, it's worse than I thought."

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Fair enough. I thought it was a game rule that had been added in.

BTW can i interest any of you in our friend and saviour MARV?

 

[Simon_Jester]

BTW can i interest any of you in our friend and saviour MARV?

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Actually yes, I am very interested in MARV, and have MARV penciled in when-and-as we:

1) Clear out a few fairly important projects that have been kicking around for a while, chiefly the Seattle frigate yard and the last of the Set 1 zone armor plants.
2) Get the zrbite gun deployment to a satisfactory level.
3) Make some headway on SADN.

Those are my three big priorities for the moment. MARVs run into the issue that they require either a lot of Military dice, or a combination of Military and Tiberium dice. And we've got our Tiberium dice pretty firmly penciled in for the next several turns, what with major Red Zone operations planned in 2063Q2 and probably 'Q3, followed by Karachi.

Popping off a Red Zone MARV (I recommend RZ-1S, located at Tripoli or Benghazi or some such place) this turn wouldn't be a bad idea as such, though. We've got a lot of freedom this turn (by which I mean the upcoming 2063Q1) to just lol whatever and do whatever tiberium projects seem appropriate.

 

[Simon_Jester]

MARVs!

In other notes... All right, all right, I'm trying a heavy alloy plan. I have my doubts; I fully expect another low/no alloy plan to yank the rug out from under plans like this. But why not.

And the MARVs do help with my medium-term project to get the RZ-1 inhibitor fired up, hence the plan draft name.

---

Income + Non-Bank Reserves: 1300 R

Budget:
1160/1300 R
7/7 Free Dice

==Issues==
ENERGY BALANCE:
13 (baseline) +4 (DAE) +1 (RZ-1S MARV) -2 (vertical farms) -1 (dairy) -3 (HI AEVA) -2 (zrbite guns) -3 (BZ-6)
->
+7 Energy (possible +19 from fusion, +? from tarberries)

FREE DICE:
5 on Heavy Industry
2 on Military

---

[] 2063Q1 Draft Plan Attempting To Mess With Kane's WiFi

-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 100 R)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) 387/995 (5 dice, 100 R) (32% chance)

-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 5 Free Dice, +34 bonus, 280 R)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) 387/995 (2 dice, 40 R) (see above)
--[] 2nd Gen. CC Fusion Plants (Phase 1) 144/325 (2 dice, 40 R) (53% chance)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 3) 186/550 (5 dice, 200 R) (87% chance)
--[] AEVA Hungers

-[] Light Industry (5/5 Dice, +24 bonus, 150 R)
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 235/690 (5 dice, 150 R) (15% chance)

-[] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29 bonus, 95 R)
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 4) 181/230 (1 die, 15 R) (96% chance)
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 2) 163/190 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 0/160 (2 dice, 30 R) (72% chance)
--[] Tarberry Plantations (Phase 1) 0/??? (2 dice, 30 R) (??% chance)

-[] Tiberium (7/7 dice, +39 bonus, 130 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 9) 22/175 (2 dice, 40 R) (83% chance)
--[] Tiberian Prediction Algorithms 80/120 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-6 Japan) 0/90 (1 die, 30 R) (65% chance)
--[] Reclamator Hub (RZ-1S Benghazi) 0/300 (2 dice, 40 R) (83% chance)
--[] Security Review

-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + EREWHON!!!, +34 bonus, 170 R)
--[] Medium Density Housing 310/335 (E die, 20 R) (91% chance)
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 292/430 (1 die, 30 R) (17% chance)
--[] Fusion Shipyard 380/475 (1 die, 20 R) (60% chance)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 146/1065 (2 dice, 40 R) (2/10 median)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 92/530 (3 dice, 60 R) (3/5 median)
---[] I promise we will finish the fruticulture bay very soon
---[] But want to make sure we go back to our Plan target projects too.

-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +35 bonus, 80 R)
--[] Heavy Industry AEVA (3 dice, 60 R) (92% chance)
--[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories (1 die, 20 R) (1/2 median)

-[] Military (7/7 Dice + 2 Free dice, +31 bonus, 165 R)
--[] Strategic Area Defense Network (Phase 1) 0/250 (2 dice, 40 R) (4% chance)
--[] Reclamator Hub (RZ-1S Benghazi) 0/300 (2 dice, 40 R) (see above)
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment (Phase 1) 317?/380 (3 dice, 60 R) (??% chance)
--[] Combat Laser Development 0/80 (1 die, 25 R) (72% chance)
--[] Security Review

-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 0 R)
--[] Security Review (Military) (1 die) (95% chance)
--[] Security Review (Tiberium) (1 die) (95% chance)
--[] Security Review (Bureaucracy) (1 die) (95% chance)
--[] Security Review (Bureaucracy) (Chasing Own Tail)

 

[HousePet]

So, what are people's thoughts on the next Rail Expansions?
Before, concurrent or after the next lot of Glacier harvesting?

 

[Crazycryodude]

Probably not necessary for a while given the logistics income from Karachi and finishing off shuttles honestly

 

[Simon_Jester]

Probably not necessary for a while given the logistics income from Karachi and finishing off shuttles honestly

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The question under discussion is whether our narrative economy needs the railroads. The +Logistics indicator is nice and all, but that doesn't mean we can ignore one mode of transportation so long as we have lots of another mode of transportation.

So, what are people's thoughts on the next Rail Expansions?
Before, concurrent or after the next lot of Glacier harvesting?

Click to shrink...

Well, we're running out of time to do them before we restart deep Red Zone operations in 2063Q2, and we're likely to do the bulk of the glacier harvesting work in 2063Q3 afterwards, tapering off in Q4.

And as noted in my most recent plan draft (well, strongly implied), the fact that Chicago rolled so badly in 2062Q4 means that we're going to be hard-pressed to find the dice to do enough with the railroads to matter until 2063Q2 at the earliest. And we've got probably-Karachi coming up in 2063Q4, so there's a pretty narrow window to squeeze in projects like the rail expansions or fortress towns.

 

[HeruKane]

You removed repulsortech Simon, I liked that aspect.

 

[Simon_Jester]

You removed repulsortech Simon, I liked that aspect.

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Yeah, well, I'm under some frickin' pressure here.

With DAE having passed this-last turn, we need AEVA in Heavy Industry now more than ever. We can't afford to stop working on the fusion reactors. We really want to get Chicago within at least shouting distance of completion.

So I can either sacrifice "reasonably likely to get Alloys Phase 3," sacrifice repulsorplates, or pillage Military for yet another Free die and have an eleven-die Heavy Industry plan.

 

[HeruKane]

Yeah, well, I'm under some frickin' pressure here.

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I didn't mean to make it seem like an attack or something and if you saw it that way I'm sorry.

With DAE having passed this-last turn, we need AEVA in Heavy Industry now more than ever. We can't afford to stop working on the fusion reactors. We really want to get Chicago within at least shouting distance of completion.

So I can either sacrifice "reasonably likely to get Alloys Phase 3," sacrifice repulsorplates, or pillage Military for yet another Free die and have an eleven-die Heavy Industry plan.

Click to shrink...

Hmm interesting on the options yeah.

Okay so looking at what you did is there a reason that Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment has 3 dice? If you take one from there you could maybe it it in repulsorplates.

---

Honestly, my opinion on this is right now I think its better to discuss things then actually try and figure out plans when we don't know the result of the turn nor the set up for the next turn. Also its less stressful I think and who needs more stress, not when its supposed to be fun.

 

[doruma1920]

Crazydude has already given the mechanical reason to not do it for a while. Narratively, its not explicitly necessary/overwhelmingly beneficial yet though the QM has said we need Rail everywhere. In Infrastructure we have:
BZ Arcologies: Provides High Quality Housing. Not a high priority, BoA is providing High Quality Housing, slightly less High Quality Housing Per Die Efficient then the Refits. Other benefits are the Energy Reserve and Con Goods, which are not high priorities given that we have a decent Energy Reserve already and we have plenty of Con Goods rolling in for our Plan Goals.
YZ Fortress Towns: Defends Front Line. Might be needed post Karachi to lock down the Indus Corridor.
Lesser Blue Zone Arcologies: Not high quality housing but provides more secure locations for population, and provides Energy and Food reserve. Not currently necessary
Rail Construction: Provides Logistics and supports general economic improvement.
Shuttles: Provides most Die and R efficient Logistics.
Chicago: Plan Goal, near completion, provides Cap Goods, Con Goods, and IHG Tib Processing
Karachi: Plan Goal, Locked until Q3, narratively monsoon season is Q3, so probably delayed until Q4.
E-CRP: Provides Food Reserves, Unpopular, Unnecessary.
Housing Refits: Provides High Quality Housing, removes low quality housing.

The BZ Arcologies, Lesser Blue Zone Arcologies, YZ Fortresses, and Housing Refits don't seem like good picks right now. We will want the Housing Refits, but we don't really need them asap. Our priorities in my mind are: Chicago, Karachi, and shuttles/Rail in that order. Since we can't get Karachi until Q3 at the earliest, probably Q4 narratively, the way I see the coming year playing out for Infrastructure is:

2063 Q1: 5 dice on Chicago (plus 1 to 3 HI dice means a chance to finish it this turn)
2063 Q2: 1 die on Chicago (plus 1 in HI should finish it, might not need the Infrastructure die), 3 dice on Shuttles (as that might give us Phase 3) and 1 on Rail.
2063 Q3: 4 dice on Rail and 1 on Shuttles (to clean it up if needed)
2063 Q4: 5 dice on Karachi (plus 7+Free dice from Tiberium means a min of 85% chance for Phase 4 in one turn)

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Yeah, well, I'm under some frickin' pressure here.

With DAE having passed this-last turn, we need AEVA in Heavy Industry now more than ever. We can't afford to stop working on the fusion reactors. We really want to get Chicago within at least shouting distance of completion.

So I can either sacrifice "reasonably likely to get Alloys Phase 3," sacrifice repulsorplates, or pillage Military for yet another Free die and have an eleven-die Heavy Industry plan.

Click to shrink...

There is the third option of only rolling one Chicago HI die, which is what my plan does. It still has a chance of completion, but it is very low.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Okay so looking at what you did is there a reason that Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment has 3 dice? If you take one from there you could maybe it it in repulsorplates.

Click to shrink...

Depending on how Ithillid chooses to implement the natural 1 we rolled on zrbite guns this-last turn (Q4), we may or may not need three dice to complete the action this-next turn (Q1). If it turns out that that won't be a problem. I'll be happy to transfer that Free die.

However, I am kind of reluctant to put a sixth die on Heavy Industry just to get that particular blue-sky research project done a turn faster while continuing to slam out alloy phases. Not when we still have a lot of other priorities too. I might go for it, though, just because the alloy projects are eating everything and it's stressful.

Honestly, my opinion on this is right now I think its better to discuss things then actually try and figure out plans when we don't know the result of the turn nor the set up for the next turn. Also its less stressful I think and who needs more stress, not when its supposed to be fun.

Click to shrink...

The plan drafts are a useful vehicle for discussion, because they force us to actually think about our available resources.

It's easy for us to agree that yes, this project sounds good, and so does that one, and so does that one, and when we've said all that we've tacitly agreed to spend fifteen dice on the same field in the same turn. Or that we've accidentally left ourselves committed to having -10 Energy by the end of the turn. Or something like that.

Actually writing down the line items and doing the arithmetic limits how badly that can go.

There is the third option of only rolling one Chicago HI die, which is what my plan does. It still has a chance of completion, but it is very low.

Click to shrink...

Well, I'm grumbling and unhappy at the prospect of Chicago being near-certain to stretch on into Q2 and very possibly Q3 unless we significantly overinvest dice in Q2 to finish it off.

My reason for wanting more Chicago dice now is so that we have a plausible (~1/3) chance of completion in Q1 and a much higher chance of being within single-die range of completion in Q2.

 

[doruma1920]

Depending on how Ithillid chooses to implement the natural 1 we rolled on zrbite guns this-last turn (Q4), we may or may not need three dice to complete the action this-next turn (Q1). If it turns out that that won't be a problem. I'll be happy to transfer that Free die.

Click to shrink...

This, how microfusion turns out, and how the medium housing bay turns out, are key to the last minute details on the plan. Personally I'm more on the side of roll minimal dice on Chicago, and finish it in Q2 and get the research ticking along in the background. though we have just researched a whole bunch and the thing we would really want it for is IHG which we already have so...

 

[Pyro Hawk]

Well, the reason I want it is not just to achieve it, but also to maintain it even as Energy levels dip, because I'm hoping it'll unlock a "refurbish first-generation plants" action that's maybe a bit cheaper than replacing all 144 Energy worth of them and gives us facilities with more longevity.

Click to shrink...

Okay, you will want to take this with a grain of salt because I'm stuck using my phone as the computer's in the shop and I hate using Discord on the phone for certain things of which keeping up with this Quest's channel is one of the but...

I feel safe enough saying this because Ithillid has said it multiple times in a way that suggests certainty to the results, even if the specifics are still liable to change by the time they matter. But refits for the 1st Gen Fusion Reactors? They consist of bulldozing the reactor and building a brand new reactor facility so comprehensive are the changes. Admittedly, they are still similar due to not being a completely new model but...

In naval terms, it's as if you just got some spiffy new 16 inch cannons for your battleships but you just finished construction a class of battleships using triple 14 or 15 inch gun turrets. Now you could refit that class to use the new 16 inchers but the only way they will fit on the ships is if you drop down to dual gun turrets. And the improvements arent so good as to make up for one less gun per turret. You also have the resources to construct an all new class, so many as well keep the old class around as-is until you've built enough new ones to replace them.

To make matters worse, due to how solidly we build our critical infrastructure such as say, fusion reactors, we will either get no or minimal Progress reductions due to pre-existing systems which are compatible. As what Progress reductions using those grant are eaten up by the effort we need to invest demolishing the old reactor facilities we can't re-use. These difficulties also make it so that 'refitting' those reactors is on the back burner with the Treasury preferring to get what use it can out of them before they are too degraded to safely use and there's no detriment to tearing them down.

Now, that last thing is based on our current 'usage history' so if we do get a mountain of 'spare' power, then the tear down and rebuild might occur sooner to get them over with, whether or not there's any progress reductions. But don't depend on that. Especially because if we do start building up a lot of free Power, that is one of the stats that the various parts of GDI absolutely have so many very beneficial uses for we just haven't seen because we haven't built up a long term large surplus of Power before and without that surplus, there's other things they hold as priorities.

But if we've got it, they will definitely show us those options. And I don't trust either the Thread to not want them, or Ithillid to fail making them enticing enough we don't go for it despite wanting to keep that surplus around.

Again, this information is not entirely up to date and even then it was liable to change some. But this is what the thoughts were back then and they'd been held long enough the generalities if not specifics should be good. Unless Ithillid's had their mind go 180 over the last few days.