Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

[BoSPaladin]

So maybe I'm missing something but doesn't Services now get +3 dice due to the project about computer integration we just finished.

If so we now have 7 die in this section.

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The +3 is a +3 bonus to each dice.

Tiberium not Tiberian.

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Both are correct. Tiberian is outdated as most modern parlance use Tiberium (both IRL since Tiberium wars and in quest) and is technically correct.

 

[Cerroneth]

Tentative plan for next turn

[] Slow Rollout

1180/1220R +80R 7/7 Free dice 1/1 Erwhon

-[] 5/5 Infrastructure 105R
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) 387/995 4 Dice 80 R ~10%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 110/230 1 die 25R 23%
-[] 9/5+4 Heavy Industry 220R
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) 387/995 2 dice 40 R, See infrastructure
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 3) 186/550 3 dice 120R 3%
--[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 1) 144/325 2 dice 40R 53%
--[] Second Generation Repulsorplate Development 0/60 1 die 20R 95%
--[]Locked for AEVA
-[] 5/5 Light Industry 150R
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 235/690 5 dice 150R 15%
-[] 6/6 Agriculture 105R
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 4) 181/230 1 die 15R 96%
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 2) 163/190 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 0/160 2 dice 40R 72%
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/240 2 dice 30R 18%
-[] 7/7 Tiberium 165R
--[] Security Review
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 9) 22/175 2 dice 40R 83%
--[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits (Phase 1) 0/240 3 dice 105R 80%
--[] Tiberian Prediction Algorithms 80/120 1 die 20R 100%
-[] 7+E/7 + E Orbital 170R
-[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 146/1065 2 dice 40 R 2/10
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 92/530 2 dice 40R 2/5
--[] Medium Density Housing 310/335 1 E dice 20R 91%
--[] Fruticulture Bay 225/335 1 die 20R 45%
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 292/430 1 die 30R 17%
--[] Fusion Shipyard 380/475 1 die 20R 60%
-[] 5/4 + 1 Services 100R
--[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Deployment 0/200 3 dice 60R 92%
--[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 79/240 2 dice 40R 72%
-[] 9/7 +2 Military 165R
--[] Security Review
--[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 1) 0/250 4 dice 80R 94%
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment (Phase 1) 317?/380 1 die 20R 84%
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 56/250 1 die 20R 1/2.5
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 6) 28/165 1 die 20R 10%
--[] Combat Laser Development 0/80 1 die 25R 72%
-[] 4/4 Bureaucracy 0R
--[] Security Reviews (Bureaucracy) DC50 0/50 1 die 95%
--[] Security Reviews (Military) DC50 0/50 1 die 95%
--[] Security Reviews (Tiberium) DC50 0/50 1 die 95%
--[] Security Review


Slow rolls most projects. put Chicago and phase 3 alloy plants near to finishing, puts in some work on both stations as well as working on all the bays under construction. does an A-EVA in heavy industry, as well as haveing good odds of finishing the optic lab. mill gets phase 1 of SADN done, slow rolls orca wingman and zone armor, and develops combat lasers.

 

[Lightwhispers]

Tiberium not Tiberian.

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Both are correct. Tiberian is outdated as most modern parlance use Tiberium (both IRL since Tiberium wars and in quest) and is technically correct.

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Specifically, Tiberium is the noun, Tiberian is the adjective referring to "things associated with/having the quality of Tiberium"

 

[HousePet]

This Plan is focussing on our less Energy and Capital Goods intensive projects so that we can build up a buffer again. This has still resulted in a meaty Plan.

[] Draft Plan: The fast shuttle to Chicago
-[] Infrastructure 5/5 210R
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 110/230 2 dice 50R 88%
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) 387/995 3 Infra + 5 HI dice 160R 77%

-[] Heavy Industry 11/5 140R
--[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 1) 144/325 2 dice 40R 53%
--[] Chicago 5 dice
--[] Heavy Industry Security Review 1 die
--[] Reserved for possible tech rollout 3 dice 100R

-[] Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 150R
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 235/690 5 dice 150R 15%

-[] Agriculture 6+E/6 120R
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/240 2+E dice 45R 58%
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 4) 181/230 1 die 15R 96%
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 2) 163/190 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 0/160 2 dice 40R 72%

-[] Tiberium 7+AA/7 225R
--[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits (Phase 1) 0/240 3 dice 105R 80%
--[] Red Zone Energy Refits (Phase 1) 0/315 4 dice 100R 84%
--[] Tiberian Prediction Algorithms 80/120 AA die 20R 76%

-[] Orbital 8/7 170R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 146/1065 2 dice 40R 2/10 median
--[] Medium Density Housing 310/335 1 die 20R 100%
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 92/530 2 dice 40R 2/5 median
--[] Fruticulture Bay 225/335 1 die 20R 45%
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 292/430 1 die 30R 17%
--[] Fusion Shipyard 380/475 1 die 20R 60%

-[] Services 4/4 80R
--[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 79/240 2 dice 40R 72%
--[] Something 2 dice 40R

-[] Military 7/7 125R
--[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 1) 0/250 3 dice 60R 57%
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment (Phase 1) 317?/380 1 die 20R 84%
--[] Transorbital Fighter Development 0/60 1 die 20R 92%
--[] Combat Laser Development 0/80 1 die 25R 72%
--[] Military Security Review 1 die

-[] Bureaucracy 4/4 0R
--[] Administrative Assistance (Tiberian Prediction Algorithms) 2 die auto
--[] Security Reviews DC50 (Heavy Industry) 1 die 95%
--[] Security Reviews DC50 (Military) 1 die 95%

7/7 Free Dice
1/1 Erewhon Die
1220/1300 R
PS: 74 +5 (SpaceFruit 45%)
Energy: 13 +4 (DAE) +19 (CCF2 53%) +10 (RZE 84%) +8 (Bergen 15%) -1 (AgriMech 58%) -2 (VertFarm 96%) -1 (Dairy 100%) -2 (OptoLab 72%) -2 (ZRRBB 100%) = ~19-39 likely. =9 worst case scenario.
Capital Goods: 12 +2 (DIA) +12 (Chicago 77%) +4 (Bergen 15%) -1 (AgriMech 58%) +1 (Spider 72%) -1 (Gravitic 17%) =26 likely.

Infrastructure:
More Shuttles to open up more Logistical flexibility. While we might be able to build Karachi soon, we should still expect to eat -20 Logistics if things get hectic again.
Chicago. Capital Goods and Processing. Good to have more of.
Heavy Industry:
Most of the Chicago dice are here as they are Free dice which work better here.
Continuing the effort on CCF2. Hopefully non terribad rolls this turn.
A Security Review, although likely an expected one. We have stuff going on here that we want to keep safe.
Dice reserved for LVPAD or MicrFusion, if needed. If not, maybe continue Alloy Foundries.
Light and Chemical Industry:
Continuing Bergen. Would really like to get Reykjavik done though.
Agriculture:
I really want to get AgriMech done, so I might promote that to 3 full dice for the final plan. I had 1 die floating around which is why I've got a Spider Cotton Plantation even though I'm not sure it will be useful.
More Vertical Farms and Dairy is useful though.
Tiberium:
This may look a bit weird, but the intention is to have a pause before the inevitable surge of mining projects next quarter. Also, we are getting a bit low of Capital Goods to keep charging ahead with Vein Mining.
Starting Refits now, as they are a long haul project.
Red Zone Energy Refits to give us a buffer in Energy while CCF2 builds up.
The AA die on Tiberian Prediction Algorithms will likely be promoted to a full die. This is just a draft.
Orbital:
Aiming for no more than 3 dice per Station. I expect 4 would be fine, but the Free Dice are going to HI at the moment.
Services:
Avoiding an AEVA this turn, so I hope something else good appears to spend those dice on. Otherwise it will be Hospitals in addition to the Optical Lab.
Military:
I am pressing the SADN button, not because Mecca is near Karachi, but because we are investing in Chicago. Gideon may have been replaced by someone competent, so this is to help protect Chicago.
Then just a few minor projects to clean things up.
Bureaucracy:
Surprise Military Review, and an unsurprising Heavy Industry Review.
Might swap the AA dice to something else depending on options and budget.

Possible changes:
8 dice on Chicago might be a bit much. I'm considering dropping it to just 4 HI dice. The 3 Infra dice would go to Postwar Housing Refits. Depending on tech roll out projects, this may free up a few Free Dice for somewhere else.
Agriculture will likely be revised, as I don't think that Spider Cotton is economical right now. More Vertical Farming is likely, but it will depend on what Tarberries look like.

 

[HeruKane]

That's a pretty good plan, though may I suggest adding Repulsorplate tech.

 

[Phht]

I am pressing the SADN button, not because Mecca is near Karachi, but because we are investing in Chicago. Gideon may have been replaced by someone competent, so this is to help protect Chicago.

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This is a reminder that while Gideon may have been replaced by someone competent, that would be someone competent chosen for the spot by Stahl. Who might be a goddamn C&C player character, but he's proper Nod. He was IIRC the only major warlord that Kane was not unhappy with (who actually participated) over the Regency War. Also, consider that having Stahl host the recent negotiations was a serious option.

All that having been said, Stahl is proper Nod. And if Kane says to nuke/shard Chicago off the map, he'd do it in an instant and probably succeed, being motherfucking Stahl.

 

[Necratoid]

Currently STUs are generated at a rate of 1 STU per 100 Tiberium mining income. The refinery refits we have will convert that capacity to generating 1 STU per 90 Tiberium mining income. And that helps, but the whole refinery refit project will only make us 3-4 STUs depending on our exact income when we finish. The ways we have to get more are either hope for technological solutions that are much more efficient than our current refineries, or just brute force hella Tib mining.

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Not strictly true. Mining Tib off Venus will give you a better rate of return as the denser atmosphere means the Tib has to be denser to survive (I think that is the explanation), but no clear details as you have to get things going first before it stops being theoretical.

Also you found some on Mars when exploring and mine that. So you can get it from the right rolls on exploration.

Remember the issue with STU is they are heavier than element 92, aka Uranium. That being the highest density element found on Earth as far as we can tell. Things that heavy tend to decay into other things over time.

I meant battery life. like the microfusion cell would be able to keep its charge longer and so devices with it would last longer before needing to be plugged in.

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If they are anything like the ones from Fallout they are also stupid heavy. I remember in fallout 3 the kind of battery your talking about were 10 pounds and the size of a 9 volt battery. Seen here: They leave the ammo version as weightless so they don't make energy weapons miserable to use. Serious they are 5 pounds a hit in Fallout 2.

Basically while useful... they are also crazy dense and its a good thing you have armor with strength boost. Being the ammo carrier is suffering.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I'm thinking we do the Civilian 30 RpT grant goal in Q2, coinciding with our red zone ops?

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I'm thinking we throw our second slice of money to InOps early; they could use the help and it might thin out Nod's assassination rolls and so on. But the civilian grants would be along not far thereafter.

Oh, I think this might have been the disconnect. I never said we were morally obliged to finish them, I just felt we are morally obliged to continue working on them. A turn is three months, right. I don't think six months or nine months (if it takes three turns total) to finish a project of this scope would be amiss. It showcases that we finish what we start.

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Speaking from experience, there is no realistic danger of us failing to finish these projects even if we take a turn-long break from working on them.

So instead of Rail Network Construction Campaigns may I make a suggesstion for Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2). I mean I like trains, trains are cool, but so are suborbital shuttles!

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The only reason I'm not doing exactly the same (yet) is because of some question of whether the railroads will specifically help us do our Red Zone border offensive operations in Australia, in particular.

First, I think that Al-Isfahani is very unlikely to flip- I suppose it is vaguely possible, but highly unlikely. In-group identity is a very strong motivator.

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You're probably right, but he's gotta at least be thinking it, being tempted, after the crap he's been through.

Second, with minimal expenditure of Free dice, we can get a good chance of finishing a phase of Shala while also putting a die on each bay left incomplete. And that would only have 8-9 dice in Orbital, which would significantly reduce stress on workers and plushies. Which, for the record, would never abandon Starbound. They are glaring at you for even thinking it. I'm not sure how Otto is making obscene gestures with his tentacles, but he apparently is.

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Well, I'm honestly concerned that we've overstrained our instrument and it may break. This situation reminds me of how we wound up actually losing a fusion die during the stabilizer constellation launch because of how hard we were pushing our equipment.

Since I strive for plushy-inclusivity, though, I must apologize to the crew. I hope they can find it in their fluffy little hearts to forgive; my thoughts and words were motivated mainly by distress at the increasing rate of sad faces and crossed-bandaid ouchies on the station.

Most of the 1st-gen fusion plants will be having troubles in the early 2070s. (I've quoted this before, see Q4 2061 Results) Yes, we need to build up an Energy surplus, but the timeline is about a Plan longer than you are implying.

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Ah. I misremembered and was thinking "five years" on all the plants.

Still, I'll be very glad if we can keep a stable Energy reserve of +30 or so for an extended period of time. As noted in the same option you quoted, we really do need the ability to shut down fusion reactors for refurbishment, alongside our "build and bulldoze" approach.

 

[Voidseer]

Not strictly true. Mining Tib off Venus will give you a better rate of return as the denser atmosphere means the Tib has to be denser to survive (I think that is the explanation), but no clear details as you have to get things going first before it stops being theoretical.

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Plus there we can use the much more productive (but less efficient) APK method of refining Tiberium. Then dump the waste down on the venusian tib field to be recycled into more tib.

 

[aledeth]

"Simon, why don't you want DAE in your plans," you may ask.

And, well, I've already explained that a lot and people find it annoying when I repeat myself at extreme length, so it boils down to "I would rather be spending Heavy Industry dice on fusion reactors than on DAE." So no, I considered doing DAE premature, and I wasn't going to add that to my plan, especially not for the sake of adding more alloy dice because that's counterproductive in the long run.

We will have more trouble, not less, keeping up rapid investment in alloys now that we've founded the DAE.

So you may want heavy alloy plans, but I think the choices we've already made and the shifting winds involving the thread's attitudes on alloys make it unlikely that such a plan will succeed in 2063Q1, or that it would be a good idea to try even if it could succeed.

Rather than continue to lobby for rapid alloy rollout and push against what I see as the verdict of this vote, I'm going to shift to a more gradual alloy rollout that lets us do more in the short term to resolve our (next) Energy crisis.

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Personally, I think you're drawing some flawed conclusions about the thread's preferences for Alloys after the vote last turn.
Then again, is there a proto-plan posted yet that has a strong chance of actually finishing the next phase of Alloys?

 

[Dmol8]

Specifically, Tiberium is the noun, Tiberian is the adjective referring to "things associated with/having the quality of Tiberium"

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Hey am I allowed to interact with you again then? Cause last time we spoke in this very thread, if I'm remembering correctly, you told me not to talk to you or something to that effect.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Personally, I think you're drawing some flawed conclusions about the thread's preferences for Alloys after the vote last turn.

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We'll see.

Then again, is there a proto-plan posted yet that has a strong chance of actually finishing the next phase of Alloys?

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I don't recall. It's worth bearing in mind that such a plan would need to be very heavily oriented towards Heavy Industry dice and would need some extra Energy, but the thing could be done.

 

[ALanos]

Parliamentary Education Service
Learning Global Democracy​

Department of Trade and Industry Bill​

Proposed during the height of the fourth Global Development Plan especially when Secretary Seo indicated a spinoff of various Treasury commitments into either line-item budgetary allocations or to be transferred to other departments. Such examples include the Forgotten Assistance Package to be formally handed over to the formerly moribund Department of Political and Peacebuilding Affairs of the UN Secretariat as part of Director-General Litinov's reactivation of the diplomatic service and the Light Industrial Grants as a line item in the budget to still be distributed by Treasury Central Office. Different parliamentarians of different parties proposed the revival and reorganization of the World Trade Organization as part in support of Litinov's peace and integration agenda.

Authored by Azza el-Ghaffari (Free Market) with assistance from Harold Maddrell (Market Socialist), Sebastian Magnussen (Developmentalist), and Nakagome Tomoe (Starbound) where they saw the need to expand the accountability of government by expanding GDI's cabinet from its wartime configuration to a more normalized governmental structure. While efforts to normalization have already been done in the executive level by reviving moribund offices and departments of the United Nations Secretariat as well as various laws in place for both the Department of the Treasury and the Department of Services to handle global economic and social policies that was once under the auspices of the Economic and Social Council.

The proposed legislation includes the overall goal of the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) where it is to foster global trade and development throughout the zones of GDI control and to oversee the inter-zonal trade of said zones. While certain provisions contain mentions of the eventuality of control of GDI's external trade policy such conditions have been relegated to further legislation with the Executive Office of the Director-General of GDI/ Secretary-General to retain policy-making duties on the matter. The department would also be charged with fostering trade and industry in space with plans for the completion of the final two Crown Jewels of the Orbit as well as new lunar and orbital colonies.

In matters of trade, the bill would divide trade zones on Earth into their respective oceans such as the Pacific trade zone, Atlantic-Arctic trade zone, and the Indian trade zone. BZ-18 would be an exception where it would be constituted as its own Himalayan trade zone both because of its landlocked nature and the relative isolation of the zone. Earth's orbit and the moon would likewise be part of a separate trade zone from Earth's oceans. Certain provisions include trade zone offices and regional offices that would help coordinate trade between the zones as well as authorizing an expansion of the judiciary for trade related adjudication.

A biennial conference had also been mandated to provide organizations and local governments their views on how the state of GDI trade has been ongoing which while the DTI will oversee the conference it will be Parliament to review policy from the reports as well as generate the direction of internal trade policy through the four-year global development plan.

In terms of industry, the bill would take over general oversight of civilian industrial operations both on Earth and Space where the Undersecretary of Special Projects Management of the Department of the Treasury will provide a list to the oversight exemptions which include strategic factories and the Tiberium industry. In exchange for these exemptions the Distributed Heavy Industrial Authority will administratively be part of the DTI with promises of the Consumer Industrial Development Office in a subsequent reallocation related bill.

Agriculture regulations and oversight has been transferred to the DTI with the Treasury retaining its procurement role and management of strategic farms and agricultural concerns as well as local governments retaining their roles in management and maintenance of general farms and other agricultural concerns. This comes from the transfer of the Department of Services regulatory role inherited from the Food and Agriculture Organization where during the height of the Tiberium evacuations the specialized agencies of the UN took unilateral action in coordination with GDI to keep human civilization running, forming the basis of GDI governance.

Such formation and revival of different governmental organizations show Parliament and the Executive's commitment to ensure a more civilian focused normal after years of necessary sacrifices after the 3rd Tiberium War.

 

[sunrise]

Then again, is there a proto-plan posted yet that has a strong chance of actually finishing the next phase of Alloys?

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Plan Predicting alloy production has the highest odds of all plans posted so far at 87% and does so by spending 5 Free Dice in HI.

 

[aledeth]

Plan Predicting alloy production has the highest odds of all plans posted so far at 87% and does so by spending 5 Free Dice in HI.

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I like it, but I only counted 9 dice spent there?

-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 5 Free Dice, +34 bonus, 280 R)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 5) 387/995 (1 dice, 20 R) (see above)
--[] 2nd Gen. Repulsorplate Development 0/60 (1 die, 20 R) (95% chance)
--[] 2nd Gen. CC Fusion Plants (Phase 1) 144/325 (2 dice, 40 R) (53% chance)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 3) 186/550 (4 dice, 160 R) 87%
--[] AEVA Hungers

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1 Chicago, 1 Repulsor, 2 Fusion, 4 Alloy, and 1 AEVA. Where's the 10th?

 

[sunrise]

1 Chicago, 1 Repulsor, 2 Fusion, 4 Alloy, and 1 AEVA. Where's the 10th?

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must have made a mistake while moving dice around, will probably put the 10th dice on alloys as well giving it at 99% chance of success as we will do the next phase soon as well so any overflow will get used soon.

 

[Rakuhn]

@Ithillid
I noticed that the rails project had an updated description, but not an (Updated) tag.
So, to clarify, is it that
a)Phase 5 still includes 'securing the routes the Australian Red Zone'
b)Phase 5 is now about developing our rural areas, and peripheral infrastructure construction such as 'Securing the routes to the Australian Red Zone' is now delayed until later phases
c)'Securing the routes to the Australian Red Zone' has been accomplished below the scale of abstraction (perhaps in part thanks to our metro investments) (or otherwise folded into the relevant red zone ops)

For comparison:
(new)
[ ] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 5)
As GDI consolidates its hold on the far flung territories, and begins trying to develop backwater blue zones, technically held by the Initiative, but with little to no actual development beyond the basics of Tiberium mitigation and abatement, they will need to build significantly more rail to begin laying out a commuter network, and more broadly encourage settlement and development in the reclaimed regions.
(old)
[ ] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 5)
A further wave of construction will finalize securing the routes to the Australian Red Zone, and ensure improved supply to GDI's various fronts. At this point however, further construction of rail networks is likely to see increasingly small improvements in the overall supply network, while new city centers are the largest growing strain.

 

[Ithillid]

snip

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A mix of all three really. Because as you have expanded the mines, the strategic needs have shifted. You need spur lines across half the back of beyond, rather than having a monofocus on the australian red zones. You need rail lines in backwater Europe, you need rail lines in Manchuria, you need rail lines in Australia, and so rather than a massive densification project in one place, it has gotten spread out around the world.

 

[Rakuhn]

A mix of all three really. Because as you have expanded the mines, the strategic needs have shifted. You need spur lines across half the back of beyond, rather than having a monofocus on the australian red zones. You need rail lines in backwater Europe, you need rail lines in Manchuria, you need rail lines in Australia, and so rather than a massive densification project in one place, it has gotten spread out around the world.

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It's answers like these that make me really love this quest. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[doruma1920]

Still, I'll be very glad if we can keep a stable Energy reserve of +30 or so for an extended period of time. As noted in the same option you quoted, we really do need the ability to shut down fusion reactors for refurbishment, alongside our "build and bulldoze" approach.

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The +30 Energy Surplus is incorporated in the Dice Required Analysis.

I do have some questions about your plan, specifically 'not breaking the budget' with alloy foundries. Given our current budget is 1300 R (Assuming we get the income increase from Private Industry) and your plan only uses 1145 that leaves a 155 R surplus for the following turn. We can afford to put 4-5 dice on Alloy Foundries. We probably can't afford a full meme 5 + 7 Free dice on Alloys, but 4-5 is affordable. I agree that AEVA (HI) is probably a good idea, though I might have to rearrange my own plan a bit to make it work.

 

[F0lkL0re]

An AEVA for Infrastructure might be more appropriate considering the resent loss.

 

[Necratoid]

I do have some questions about your plan, specifically 'not breaking the budget' with alloy foundries. Given our current budget is 1300 R (Assuming we get the income increase from Private Industry) and your plan only uses 1145 that leaves a 155 R surplus for the following turn. We can afford to put 4-5 dice on Alloy Foundries. We probably can't afford a full meme 5 + 7 Free dice on Alloys, but 4-5 is affordable. I agree that AEVA (HI) is probably a good idea, though I might have to rearrange my own plan a bit to make it work.

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Thing about the U-series is because you need super heavy elements to make a things out of super heavy elements consistently for both wear and tear and minimum effectiveness reasons. They simply aren't resource cost effective at 280 resources for the first one. You can't make your resource investment back anytime soon. You only save a single dice(meaning recoup your resource investment) on plants 2/4/5 on average rolls.

[Average rolls with bonuses on dice are at about 80 so threshold is (80/160/240/320) for any savings per thousand points of project. discount levels are at (50/100/150/200/250/300) for the 6 plants.]

This is why U-series plant number 6 is not a 5% discount and instead a Tib mining bonus. Making things out of super heavy materials saves costs, maintenance, and size in some places and increases costs and usability in other cases. They are only really useful for some things. Making household goods out of things that start off with the density and mass of depleted uranium is... ill advised. No one sane wants toilet seats heavy enough to shatter the bowl during normal use.

So in terms of resource investments they are a black hole. The upfront costs are kind of brutal. So its not a matter of if you 'can' invest in them as much of if you 'should'. This is why I suggested one a year once you get the first bonus tier. You also don't know that all the bonuses hit all the effected projects all the time. At some point it may effect different projects instead.

So when making a plan the question really is 'should' you do it. Not if you can. This is the question as there are other things you can spend those resources on and ramp up faster. The answer in terms of resource efficiency is yes.

You are also probably better off building up your Tib harvesting levels up first so you don't feed all your STUs to those things and prevent access to other projects later. You are spending those STUs on the gravitic shipyard already. Plant 3 is effectively useless but necessary in terms of investment.

So even if you can afford the next U-series plant you have to build two for it to really matter. That is where the budget busting comes in. Those things are resource hungry and investing in them means other project suffer. The opportunity costs are harsh for doing the third and fourth plants, things move faster overall if you don't do them and instead upgrade Tib mining and processing capacities you actually get more extra resources faster.

 

[doruma1920]

An AEVA for Infrastructure might be more appropriate considering the resent loss.

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It's not a bad idea losses aside, cause of Karachi and the future planned cities. However, I would prefer to get the HI AEVA first given how much Free dice we are currently and will continue to poor into it. As that will give the greatest return on investment. The more dice we anticipate rolling in a category the quicker we will effectively pay off the one department die we use to get it. Over the past year we have put 7 Free Dice in Tiberium in Q1, 3 in Heavy Industry 1 in Tiberium and 3 in Orbital in Q2, 3 in Heavy Industry 3 in Orbital and 1 in Services in Q3, and 7 Free Dice in Orbital in Q4. That is an average of 1.5 Free dice in HI and 2 Free Dice in Tiberium.

Category	Die Bonus	Average Roll	Dice to Pay Off AVEA	Turns Without Free Dice	Turns with Average Free DIce
Infrastructure	27	77.5	25.83	5.17	5.17
Heavy Industry	34	84.5	28.17	5.63	4.33
Light and Chemical Industry	24	74.5	25.17	5.03	5.03
Agriculture	29	79.5	26.5	4.41	4.41
Tiberium	39	89.5	29.83	4.26	3.31
Military	31	81.5	27.17	3.88	3.88
Bureaucracy	29	79.5	26.5	6.63	6.63

This does only calculate how quickly we would expect the AEVA to pay itself off. But it seems to imply that Tiberium is the best one to put an AEVA in as it will pay itself off quickest. To be fair we do expect to resume aggressive Tiberium investment in Q2. Though we also have to weigh exactly how much we really want the things in Heavy Industry vs the Income and Abatement in Tiberium.

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Thing about the U-series is because you need super heavy elements to make a things out of super heavy elements consistently for both wear and tear and minimum effectiveness reasons. They simply aren't resource cost effective at 280 resources for the first one. You can't make your resource investment back anytime soon. You only save a single dice(meaning recoup your resource investment) on plants 2/4/5 on average rolls.

[Average rolls with bonuses on dice are at about 80 so threshold is (80/160/240/320) for any savings per thousand points of project. discount levels are at (50/100/150/200/250/300) for the 6 plants.]

This is why U-series plant number 6 is not a 5% discount and instead a Tib mining bonus. Making things out of super heavy materials saves costs, maintenance, and size in some places and increases costs and usability in other cases. They are only really useful for some things. Making household goods out of things that start off with the density and mass of depleted uranium is... ill advised. No one sane wants toilet seats heavy enough to shatter the bowl during normal use.

So in terms of resource investments they are a black hole. The upfront costs are kind of brutal. So its not a matter of if you 'can' invest in them as much of if you 'should'. This is why I suggested one a year once you get the first bonus tier. You also don't know that all the bonuses hit all the effected projects all the time. At some point it may effect different projects instead.

So when making a plan the question really is 'should' you do it. Not if you can. This is the question as there are other things you can spend those resources on and ramp up faster. The answer in terms of resource efficiency is yes.

You are also probably better off building up your Tib harvesting levels up first so you don't feed all your STUs to those things and prevent access to other projects later. You are spending those STUs on the gravitic shipyard already. Plant 3 is effectively useless but necessary in terms of investment.

So even if you can afford the next U-series plant you have to build two for it to really matter. That is where the budget busting comes in. Those things are resource hungry and investing in them means other project suffer. The opportunity costs are harsh for doing the third and fourth plants, things move faster overall if you don't do them and instead upgrade Tib mining and processing capacities you actually get more extra resources faster.

Click to shrink...

I think there is a misunderstanding here, the point of the U-Series Alloys isn't to make household appliances out of them, maybe on a key component like how there is americanium in smoke detectors, but I don't think the idea is ever to make a toilet bowl out of U-Series Alloys. Where the Alloys come in is the machines that make the toilet bowl, or the machines that make the machines that make the toilet bowl. And in the structural components of the house or factory itself. Having a house, more accurately an apartment complex or arcology, or factory that can suffer a missile hit and still be standing is important to the GDI given NOD's terrorist methodology.

Each Alloy Phase thus far has knocked off ~5% progress cost for most projects. Not all of them true, like how the reduction is lessened in Orbital and Agriculture, but elsewhere it has dramatically improved the amount of stuff we can get done. Phase 3 is far from useless as the shear economic benefits the Alloy Foundries provide across the board.

Take the megaprojects. Their 5th Phase's in particular. The original Phase 5 costs were on the order of 1000-2000 progress for each megaproject. This means that a 5% reduction reduces the cost by 50-100 on average ~75, or a little bit under a die. We currently have 6 such mega projects on the books (Chicago, Karachi, Nuuk, North Boston, Bergen, and Reykjavik). Now not all the megaprojects are at Phase 5, one hasn't even been started, but we can average them out to say each needs ~1500 Progress to complete. That means each Phase of Alloys saves us 5-6 dice on those megaprojects alone. That is not counting the reduction in cost in Orbtial for the Stations. Nor is it counting how even if it won't explicitly save a die on the smaller projects where the progress cost saved is 5-20 per Phase of Alloys, that cost saving adds up because there is die roll variance. That roll variance means that without a Phase of Alloys we might need another die to finish off a project, with that phase we wouldn't. The Medium Housing Bay, for instance, where we were just 10 Progress short of Omake completing it last turn.

I don't think there has been any evidence of the Alloy Foundries varying their effectiveness on individual projects. There has been variance between projects like how Orbital and Agriculture don't receive a full discount as the alloys correspond less to the Progress cost of those projects. But a specific project such as Nuuk, or Rail construction, has received the same Progress cost reduction, modified for how much progress has already been completed. The project description for the effects of Alloys does not change except for Phase 6, for Phase 3-5 it is the same '5% discount on many projects'.

For Phase 6, I'm not sure if the benefit is worth it. It would be if the income increase was more then 180 RpT (with IHG Processing, 200 RpT without) as that would mean the 2 STUs needed were recouped. But for Phase 1-5, while it is certainly an immense investment of STUs, the economic benefits are far larger.

For the STU economy, I have done an analysis here on what our minimum STU budget currently is. Bottom Line Up Front: We have an effective minimum budget of 17 STUs for the rest of this Plan. Currently available projects that need STUs cost a total of 13 STUs. This does not count the Gravitic Bay whose cost was included in the effective minimum STU budget. Meaning we will still have a surplus of +4 STUs.

This does not count future projects that may cost STUs, nor does it count Tiberium investment beyond the minimum for Plan Goals. I suppose we will find out soon how many STUs the Microfusion Cells and Conestoga will cost, which will change that math. I will note that space exploitation is going to be a big part of our economy going forward. And with how Microfusion is needed for infantry scale Energy weapons and its benefits for Power Armor. Both of those are going to need STUs by the truckload. However, Given the opportunity to get 33% more stuff done with Alloys vs having the latest and greatest shiny toy, I'm going to pick the former as that alloys us to scale our economy quicker to get the latter.

To quote the project description, I guess I say all of this to mean I very firmly come down on the side of one 'who consider(s) the limitation a small price to pay for the economic benefits.'

 

[Rakuhn]

I don't think there has been any evidence of the Alloy Foundries varying their effectiveness on individual projects. There has been variance between projects like how Orbital and Agriculture don't receive a full discount as the alloys correspond less to the Progress cost of those projects. But a specific project such as Nuuk, or Rail construction, has received the same Progress cost reduction, modified for how much progress has already been completed.

Click to shrink...

I made the discount tool (with input from ithillid, ofc, and with some assistance from others). There might be new categories in the future, if a special case comes up though.

The current categories are (None is 0, Half is 2.5%, Full is 5%):

AIs and VIs	None
Arcologies	Full
Asteroid Mining	Half
Education	Half
Food	Half
Food Stockpiles	Full
Health	Half
Heavy Industry	Full
Light Industry	Full
Logistics	Full
Military Factories	Full
Mining	Full
Other Housing	Full
Other Infrastructure	Full
Planned City	Full
Research	None
Satellites	Half
Stations	Half
Tiberium	Full

 

[HousePet]

I do have some questions about your plan, specifically 'not breaking the budget' with alloy foundries. Given our current budget is 1300 R (Assuming we get the income increase from Private Industry) and your plan only uses 1145 that leaves a 155 R surplus for the following turn. We can afford to put 4-5 dice on Alloy Foundries. We probably can't afford a full meme 5 + 7 Free dice on Alloys, but 4-5 is affordable. I agree that AEVA (HI) is probably a good idea, though I might have to rearrange my own plan a bit to make it work.

Click to shrink...

I'm aiming to have some left over so that we have lots of R available to attack glaciers again the turn afterwards.
Although it may not be needed.