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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Simon_Jester said:
Its failure to happen until now wasn't lack of interest, it was that we honestly had a lot of other things to do with Agriculture, which involved mandatory Plan commitments or basic "able to feed people" considerations.
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Indeed. However, I have gotten past the point of "it would be nice to have [plant]" and am now onto "I'm tired of justifications about efficiency, we are literally wasting potential if we don't take these opportunities." To make my position on the matter clear.
 
I am really looking forward to seeing what the engineered plants get us.

On the surface it doesn't look like much. Small boosts to energy, health, cap goods.

But I bet they will open up some fascinating stuff. Especially with our forays into cybernetics, genetics, tiberium, and now having discovered what looks like a weird alien life support system that merges stuff together or something.

Mad science ahead. :)
 
Strunkriidiisk said:
Indeed. However, I have gotten past the point of "it would be nice to have [plant]" and am now onto "I'm tired of justifications about efficiency, we are literally wasting potential if we don't take these opportunities." To make my position on the matter clear.
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Fair enough. Me, I'm willing to spend one or two more turns concentrating on basic Food production and vertical farming, just to lay groundwork for the anticipated split focus between dairy ranching/reforestation (our actual Plan goals) and the Cool Stuff like poulticeplants.

Because a +13 Food surplus is a little slim, at least to me, so one more turn, maybe two, tops, seems justified.

But there is no way I'm going to walk into 2063 satisfied if we're not already getting some of this stuff into deployment when 2063 begins.
 
It shouldn't be too difficult to fit the modified plant stuff in.

Agriculture has 6 dice now. Let's have 4 dedicated to food production and diversity and put the two new ones the new hire brought into a modified plant.

That's our original 4 dice continuing to do what they were doing. That should hit whatever goals we need.

And since nod gets the data for the plants as well we definitely need to just focus on one until it's completed. No need to research all of them now and give nod access to everything at the start.
 
-[] Agriculture 6/6 dice 70R
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 2 dice 30R 12%
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 1) 0/200 1 dice 20R (1/2.5 dice median)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 315/450 2 dice 20R 80%
--[] Agriculture Security Review

This is what I'd like to see next turn in Agriculture. (Obligatory security review aside.) Mechanization gets us a big +12 Food and hopefully has other effects when finished. Dairy Ranches gets us milk, cheese, and +6 consumer goods. And we can hopefully finish Kudzu in one turn.

Vertical Farms are good, and we're going to want to build a few of them, but we've got other options too.
 
bigking321 said:
And since nod gets the data for the plants as well we definitely need to just focus on one until it's completed. No need to research all of them now and give nod access to everything at the start.
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Can I ask where this idea is coming from? Or the idea that there's going to be tech-trades with the Bannerjees?

We kidnapped the plant scientist from Nod india, he is not working with us by choice. There is no reason to believe that the stuff he invents will make its way back to nod because essentially, he is (or near enough) locked in a hole in the ground working for us under armed guard. And if he's not, it's because he might actually believe in GDI's ideology and is working for us willingly. But either way, the chance of anything he creates making its way back to nod is slim. It certainly shouldn't get back to nod automatically.

Yes, there is some mutterings about talking with Yao, and potentially arranging some sort of peacetalks last update, but you seem to be way ahead of where we actually are.
 
BoSPaladin said:
Can I ask where this idea is coming from?
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Umm... the bolded part.

Ithillid said:
[ ] Dr. Dinesh Bora
One of the scientists seized by InOps from the Bannerjees, Dr. Bora is a genetics specialist, with a focus on plant genetics. While most of his work has been on various forms of tib crops and soil stabilization efforts, which have primarily been deployed in India's river valleys, he has turned his coat and has requested work for the Initiative, "in the common interests of mankind." While he does ask that his creations be made freely available to the Brotherhood as well, it is a relatively small demand for a scientist of his capabilities.
(+2 Agriculture Dice, +5 to Genetically Engineered Plants)
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BoSPaladin said:
We kidnapped the plant scientist from Nod india, he is not working with us by choice. There is no reason to believe that the stuff he invents will make its way back to nod because essentially, he is (or near enough) locked in a hole in the ground working for us under armed guard. And if he's not, it's because he might actually believe in GDI's ideology and is working for us willingly. But either way, the chance of anything he creates making its way back to nod is slim. It certainly shouldn't get back to nod automatically.
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[ ] Dr. Dinesh Bora
One of the scientists seized by InOps from the Bannerjees, Dr. Bora is a genetics specialist, with a focus on plant genetics. While most of his work has been on various forms of tib crops and soil stabilization efforts, which have primarily been deployed in India's river valleys, he has turned his coat and has requested work for the Initiative, "in the common interests of mankind." While he does ask that his creations be made freely available to the Brotherhood as well, it is a relatively small demand for a scientist of his capabilities.
(+2 Agriculture Dice, +5 to Genetically Engineered Plants)

edit: lol
 
BoSPaladin said:
My god. I didn't know that just asking got people whatever they wanted. Quick quick has anyone asked Kane to turn himself in and hand over the keys to the visitor tower?! We should do that straight away!
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Within the ethics of the GDI we have basically no way to force him to work for us. And especially with intellectual work, work done freely and willingly is waaaay more effective than work done under duress.
Given that the plants have extremely limited military application, especially for NOD who have far less clean water and places to grow things than us, it is a low asking price for his help. We wouldn't have got the offer without the initial kidnapping, but now he's made it accepting it is more valuable than just continuing to interrogate him.


On the subject of plants, can we please engineer the chickenvine to contain taurine? Then more people can have cats.
 
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BoSPaladin said:
My god. I didn't know that just asking got people whatever they wanted. Quick quick has anyone asked Kane to turn himself in and hand over the keys to the visitor tower?! We should do that straight away!
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Christ on a bike.

Normalizing non-hostile contact with Nod should be a good thing - it means we can take steps toward ending the pointless forever war and focus on not letting Tiberium kill us all.
 
Strunkriidiisk said:
Christ on a bike.

Normalizing non-hostile contact with Nod should be a good thing - it means we can take steps toward ending the pointless forever war and focus on not letting Tiberium kill us all.
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Takes two to tango. Our raid on nod was a direct response to Nod raids stealing some of our harvesters. They can get All the plant data just as soon as they turn over all the tiberium harvested and give us any and all cleared red/yellow zone the harvesters have been used to abate.
 
bigking321 said:
And since nod gets the data for the plants as well we definitely need to just focus on one until it's completed. No need to research all of them now and give nod access to everything at the start.
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This implies that we should focus on finishing spider cotton deployment, before developing the poulticeplant or tarberries. Narratively the interpretation could be that since Bora wasn't present during Spider Cotton's development, it doesn't count. However, given how long its been and how more Cap Goods is never a bad thing, I would not be against rolling out the Spider Cotton once Kudzu and a bit of Food are built. Note it will cost roughly 11 dice to complete Spider Cotton with Bora's bonus, which is roughly as effective as Reykjavik and Bergen at producing Cap Goods.

BoSPaladin said:
My god. I didn't know that just asking got people whatever they wanted. Quick quick has anyone asked Kane to turn himself in and hand over the keys to the visitor tower?! We should do that straight away!
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It does if the benefits Bora is providing are worth the potential tech sharing with NOD, and they are.

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BoSPaladin said:
Takes two to tango. Our raid on nod was a direct response to Nod raids stealing some of our harvesters. They can get All the plant data just as soon as they turn over all the tiberium harvested and give us any and all cleared red/yellow zone the harvesters have been used to abate.
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Yes it is entirely possible that NOD will be intractable about it, but that is no reason not to make the good faith offer, and potentially cement Bora on our side if/when they throw it back in our faces.
 
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doruma1920 said:
It does if the benefits Bora is providing are worth the potential tech sharing with NOD, and they are.

Edit:

Yes it is entirely possible that NOD will be intractable about it, but that is no reason not to make the good faith offer, and potentially cement Bora on our side if/when they throw it back in our faces.
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Those benefits are far less valuable if Nod instantly gets the same for free. Even if we do give them data there's nothing saying we have to give it them immediately, instead of after say, five or six years, you know, just as soon as we've made sure it's safe and developed the next generation.

Or I suppose we could give the data to our Qatarists, to benefit them and former nod yellow zoners and open hand voters. That counts right? Or hell, offer it to Yao, sure.

But immediately giving everything this guy creates straight back to the bannerjees? Lol. Lmao. He asked for it but there's very little reason to honour giving data to 'nod' much less the arms dealers who have been supplying each and every one of our enemies and have personally attacked BZ18 themselves.
 
I could be misreading it, but I'm pretty sure that the "it is a relatively small demand for a scientist of his capabilities" bit means that it'll be happening automatically, not that it's something we'll be voting on.

EDIT: Or rather, we voted to accept it when we voted to choose him, but the end result is the same.
 
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And it's not like the engineered plants have meaningful military value. Nod starts growing poulticeplants and the poor now have access to antiseptic? We're actually pretty fine with that. Their real troops already had manufactured medicine (or are engineered crocobominations with no need for it).

We might want to hold off on the tarberries I guess.
 
Phew. I've been driving all day and was worried that I'd come back to 10 pages of plan discussion...

Re: Optical Prosthetics:
This is the GDI. Everyone involved will be making choices with full knowledge of the limitations and shortfalls. Things are fine, until we make them better.
And we can make them better. Our robotic surgery will eventually improve to the point that any risk from altering implanted devices will be minimised. Further work on enhancing the prosthetics is on the table already. It will be fine.

Re: Agriculture:
I've suggested we needed to start growing stuff if we want to see improvements to our biotech before. So I still agree with that.
However, I would like to see Mechanization, Vertical Farming and Kudzu finished first. Will take 2 turns max with the new dice.
I do not want to be worrying about our Food surplus while we are opening the biotech mystery boxes. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Mechanization contributed to non-Food production efficiency.

Re: Random thought I had while driving:
If we are intending to do the Infernium Disco Ball Refits now, would it make sense to activate the Department of Refits now?
It only looks bad at the moment because the only other Refit is a 5/die project (which means we get less than 30R equivalent progress applied). I expect we just need one more refits project on the table for it to pay off as more efficient for resources as well as for die utilisation.
And perhaps it applies to things we don't have projects for as well. Like general extra replace/repairs for the military. ZOCOM did sound like they got a bit hammered last turn.
We've got it as a Litvinov promise anyway.
 
Welp. I guess my plan just became 'rush karachi this turn and build marv hub YZ 1-west so we can hand deliver the specs to poulticeplants to the rubble of any nod bases that gets in our way.
 
I don't really think this is a discussion, it's a condition of employment as much as many specialists have come with conditions. We picked the specialist so now we just make all their work freely available online at least.
 
BoSPaladin said:
Welp. I guess my plan just became 'rush karachi this turn and build marv hub YZ 1-west so we can hand deliver the specs to poulticeplants to the rubble of any nod bases that gets in our way.
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To be perfectly blunt: that... won't be happening. Even if we somehow managed to pull off Karachi this turn (and I assure you, the odds of that are rather low), we're not trying to take all of India, because that would be a terrible idea for numerous reasons. As such, the Bannerjees will be getting our various agricultural research -- but, again, that doesn't hugely matter to us, since it's mainly civilian uses, and even stuff like tarberries which do have military uses aren't nearly useful enough to be worth not getting his bonus.
 
Yeah even the Tarberries are nothing compared to the microfusion cells we'll be developing.
And TBH, the Bannerjees likely had other scientists who can do this work anyway.
 
Kyr'am said:
To be perfectly blunt: that... won't be happening. Even if we somehow managed to pull off Karachi this turn (and I assure you, the odds of that are rather low), we're not trying to take all of India, because that would be a terrible idea for numerous reasons. As such, the Bannerjees will be getting our various agricultural research -- but, again, that doesn't hugely matter to us, since it's mainly civilian uses, and even stuff like tarberries which do have military uses aren't nearly useful enough to be worth not getting his bonus.
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WooooooooooW. Holy Armies of scarecrows Batman!

Nice strawman bro!

At no point did I say we'd take all of india or even try.

The suggestion was literally. "Karachi +1 marv hub nearby. Destroy bases that try to stop us."
 
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