For the record, RZBO stage 2 is likely linkup between US East and West coast.
Where will stage 3 be? Push in Australian Outback?
I doubt we'll be able to fight all the way across a continent that fast. It's quite possible that multiple stages of border offensive will sometimes just represent an intensification of effort along an existing front.

Alright, now that we have a more solid budget to work with, time to redo my plan from prior to Realloc.

[] Draft Plan First Quarter Blues Mk II
-[] Heavy Industry (4/4 Dice, +33 bonus, 75 R)
--[] Advanced Alloys Development 56/120 (1 die * 15 R = 15R)
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 (2 dice * 20R = 20R)
--[] Microfusion Cell Development 0/60 (1 die * 20R = 20R)
--[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) (529/550) (1 die * 20R = 20R)
You've assigned five dice here.

Given that Chicago isn't actually an urgent "must-finish" project, there's a strong argument for deliberately waiting on it until we can do another 'surge' of Infrastructure dice backed by a single Heavy Industry die, as this is the most dice-efficient way to complete the project. Otherwise, it's just going to consume more of the Heavy Industry dice we need for other projects.

If you feel confident doing improved fusion in this turn, I'm not going to complain, though I was personally planning to do the very popular Personal Electric Vehicles action, which has the virtue of being cheap per die, widely popular, and probably good for the civilian economy.

-[] Light Industry (3/4 Dice, +28 bonus, 30 R)
--[] Isolinear Peripherals Development (0/160) (3 dice * 10R = 30R)
--[] Locked by AEVA dev
I have to say that if you're going to plan an AEVA, I would strongly suggest putting it in almost any other category. Preferably one where we have large mandatory commitments that strain our capacity (Orbital, Heavy Industry), and long-duration megaprojects or rollover projects where the cumulative +3 bonus adds up across a lot of dice (Orbital, Heavy Industry, Infrastructure, Tiberium)

I'd rate Light Industry as being near the bottom when it comes to priorities for AEVA support. And we only have enough Capital Goods and Energy readily available to do that for a couple of sectors right now, even if we do have the money.

No. Not this time. Blue, Green, Yellow, Orange and Red Zones have all been mentioned in thread by @Ithillid at some point, with Orange Zones specifically being noted as probably not ever being a thing that exists by the OP.
The colors being mentioned and assigned to zones does not mean that there is a useful or meaningful concept attached to "border" of that color.

For example, both Yellow Zones and Red Zones exist. The name for the border between them is "the containment lines;" calling it "the Yellow Border" is just redundant.

The Red Zones exist. A firmly defined "Red Border" between "GDI-controlled Red Zones" and uncontrolled Red Zones does not exist, nor does a firmly defined "Orange Border" between Forgotten-controlled Red Zone areas and other Red Zone areas. As a rule, Red Zones are places where very small groups try to navigate very unfavorable environments, without strongly held "borders" of any kind. The first step to creating a "border" within a Red Zone is to inhibit the tiberium enough that it's practical to build permanent structures... but that very action means you are in the process of turning the Red Zone back into a Yellow Zone anyway.

I'm not saying the zones aren't real. I'm saying that the terminology you've made up to describe the borders between the zones is a "map" that includes features which do not correspond to realistic or relevant "territory," or that already have other names.

Read the text of the current Rail Action. We will need Phase 5 for the Australian Border Offensives.
That is not what the action says. The text says:

"A further wave of construction will finalize securing the routes to the Australian Red Zone."

That does not mean that it will be impossible to launch that particular border offensive without those particular railroads. Having the railroads may be desirable, but it may or may not be required. Perhaps you are right, but it is by no means certain that you are right.

It is entirely possilbe that even without the railroads being completely expanded, GDI can still launch a border offensive in that region.

Red Zone Containment Lines definitely have more Phases. We need to have the gain from them in Red Zone Mitigation drop to 2 for us to be nearing the end of that Action chain.
Do you have evidence for this claim? I'd be happy to learn that the Lines have more phases, but there is no guarantee that they "need" to do what you expect them to do.

We really have that much? That seems better than our best expectations.

Are we still planning to go all in on tiberium harvesting actions to increase income the first couple of turns?
It would probably still be a good idea. We have to do the border offensives pretty soon anyway, once you've done those there's almost no point in NOT doing the super glacier mines, and it'd be kind of reckless to not try to get a handle on the vein mining situation. Furthermore, that 800+ R budget includes a sizeable lump sum of savings that won't last more than one turn or two at most, so it's not a permanent condition.

Heavy vein mining will put us in a position where we can afford to start doing things that are key to the overall plan, such as mass-scale construction of some of the big 20 R/die megaprojects. We're not in a good position to do that right now.

Also, we have a 1200 RpT income increase goal, and we might as well frontload that as far as practical so we can get the benefits of actually having the money, instead of frantically sprinting to get major income projects done at the last minute and then immediately losing the income.

I just hope that activate every other dice (exempting Tib) before we can use free dice doesn't bite us. We only needed 3 Litvinov Objectives to keep Litvinov off our back, I can understand getting more but this was one of the most limiting choices for us. It limits our ability to sprint or focus down more expensive projects so this is making me a little nervous.😖
Give us 2-3 turns of heavy tib mining, and we won't have problems with affording to activate all our dice anyway.

Technically we have 915, but I don't want to blow our whole reserve. The more we leave in reserve, the more the Bank of GDI has to work with to increase the civilian economy. Plus it gives us more cushion on later plans, of course.
I've been treating the 100 R in the bank as being totally off limits. Honestly, I'd be just as happy if Ithillid just deleted it from the reserves, since it is no longer available to be spent freely.
 
Last edited:
Alright, now that we have a more solid budget to work with, time to redo my plan from prior to Realloc.

[] Draft Plan First Quarter Blues Mk II
PercentIndividual per tierTotal
90+-6 Logistics, +6 Housing, +1 Energy, -2 Cap Goods, +2 YZ, 7 RZ Abate, +125-215 RPT, 10-15R
Structural Alloys
Isolinear Peripherals, Programming
Microfusion
GD-3 (to be deployed)
ZA Recon Drones (to be deployed)
70+-4 Cap Goods, -3 Energy, 10-15R, 5 PS, +3 to LCI
Experimental Housing
Satellite Progress Discount (20)
Station Progress Discount
-6 Logistics, +6 Housing, -2 Energy, -6 Cap Goods, +2 YZ, 7 RZ Abate, +125-215 RPT, 20-30R, 5 PS, +3 LCI
50+Experimental Housing
Buckler Shields (to be deployed)
''
30+-2 Labour, -2 Energy, -1 Cap Goods
Improved Fusion (to be refit)
Station/Lunar Progress Discount
-6 Logistics, +6 Housing, -2 Labor, -4 Energy, -7 Cap Goods, +2 YZ, 7 RZ Abate, +125-215 RPT, 20-30R, 5 PS, +3 LCI
 
Last edited:
I doubt we'll be able to fight all the way across a continent that fast. It's quite possible that multiple stages of border offensive will sometimes just represent an intensification of effort along an existing front.

You've assigned five dice here.

Given that Chicago isn't actually an urgent "must-finish" project, there's a strong argument for deliberately waiting on it until we can do another 'surge' of Infrastructure dice backed by a single Heavy Industry die, as this is the most dice-efficient way to complete the project. Otherwise, it's just going to consume more of the Heavy Industry dice we need for other projects.

If you feel confident doing improved fusion in this turn, I'm not going to complain, though I was personally planning to do the very popular Personal Electric Vehicles action, which has the virtue of being cheap per die, widely popular, and probably good for the civilian economy.

I have to say that if you're going to plan an AEVA, I would strongly suggest putting it in almost any other category. Preferably one where we have large mandatory commitments that strain our capacity (Orbital, Heavy Industry), and long-duration megaprojects or rollover projects where the cumulative +3 bonus adds up across a lot of dice (Orbital, Heavy Industry, Infrastructure, Tiberium)

I'd rate Light Industry as being near the bottom when it comes to priorities for AEVA support.

Both good points.

I missed removing the extra dice when I reallocated to finish Chicago, so, good catch. I think I will remove that Chicago die to all-but guarantee ICCF completion. We can nab that last bit with our 'finish Chicago' push later.

The reason I don't want to do PEV this turn is we'd have to throw basically all of our HI into it to even get a reasonable chance of knocking it out. With the spread in my plan, we stand a good chance of finishing multiple HI projects.

The reason I did Light Industry for the AEVA target is its status as being where a lot of our blue-sky research is done, and because missing a dice there will hurt less for a turn.

The AEVA is, honestly, more dependant on what new options Ithillid gives us for Services die usage than anything.
 
Last edited:
The reason I don't want to do PEV this turn is we'd have to throw basically all of our HI into it to even get a reasonable chance of knocking it out. With the spread in my plan, we stand a good chance of finishing multiple HI projects.
My own take is that whether this is a good strategy depends on the immediate merits of the projects in question. I see improved fusion as a big-deal watershed, and you'll note I'm not really fighting you on that. The microfusion cells, however, strike me as more of a "nice to have eventually" tech.

And the general issue is that choosing 20 R/die projects eats up more budget, and while we do more or less have the money, that doesn't mean we should be spending it fully freely on truly optional things.

My own spending priorities for 2062Q1 are all intended to be relatively cheap, things that are effectively mandatory, or things that are both.

The reason I did Light Industry for the AEVA target is its status as being where a lot of our blue-sky research is done, and because missing a dice there will hurt less for a turn.
I don't share that analysis.

Blue sky research is exactly the kind of project where having to roll a second die once in a while (about 3% more often, given how the bonus works) just isn't that big of a deal.

Where you really want AEVAs is where there's a lot to do and it's all quasi-mandatory. Ideally, you want it where there are very long buildup projects with rollover, high Progress costs, or both, so that the +3's from rolling many dice add up in the long run.

Light Industry is generally one of our more "relaxed" categories, so I don't see it that way.

I'd much rather get an Orbital AEVA done here and now (so that cumulative +3's stack up on all our projects, hopefully saving us some Free dice over the course of the next four years).
 
I'd much rather get an Orbital AEVA done here and now (so that cumulative +3's stack up on all our projects, hopefully saving us some Free dice over the course of the next four years).

I'd be down to work that into Q2 when we might be able to peel off an Orbital die (replaced by a free one currently allocated to more Tib mining) and try and blitz it down. Heck, we could do that this turn if we wanted, again at the expense of moving a free dice off Tiberium. What do you think?
 
All I know is that we need to focus on our plan goals. None of that finishing on the last turn nonsense.

Every turn each category should focus on whatever goals that category has until it's cleared. Resources permitting of course. Then that category can do whatever it wants.
 
With the 20k space goal in our laps I guess its time for planning how to get that. We defintely want/need Shala, Colombia and the Enterprise bays/Leo IIs (And the Conostega dev somewhere), in what order is only slightly the question. Its Station Bay/Leo II then everything else. Personally, I am in favor of getting the Ent-bays done first and then go to Shala/Comb, but I guess going Station+Leo II -> Shala 3 + Col 3 -> Fusion/Gdrive Bay -> Shala 5 + Col 5.

How things go from there I have no fucking clue. I guess do the rumored Colombia II then go full on moon, but we sadly dont have any numbers.
 
With the 20k space goal in our laps I guess its time for planning how to get that. We defintely want/need Shala, Colombia and the Enterprise bays/Leo IIs (And the Conostega dev somewhere), in what order is only slightly the question. Its Station Bay/Leo II then everything else. Personally, I am in favor of getting the Ent-bays done first and then go to Shala/Comb, but I guess going Station+Leo II -> Shala 3 + Col 3 -> Fusion/Gdrive Bay -> Shala 5 + Col 5.

How things go from there I have no fucking clue. I guess do the rumored Colombia II then go full on moon, but we sadly dont have any numbers.

I know it goes against the idea of 'station bays first' for maximum discounts but I do think phase 1 of colombia to get some idea of the early teething issues in Q1 would be helpful in providing a testbed and unlocking better space housing options for later.
 
With the 20k space goal in our laps I guess its time for planning how to get that. We defintely want/need Shala, Colombia and the Enterprise bays/Leo IIs (And the Conostega dev somewhere), in what order is only slightly the question. Its Station Bay/Leo II then everything else. Personally, I am in favor of getting the Ent-bays done first and then go to Shala/Comb, but I guess going Station+Leo II -> Shala 3 + Col 3 -> Fusion/Gdrive Bay -> Shala 5 + Col 5.

How things go from there I have no fucking clue. I guess do the rumored Colombia II then go full on moon, but we sadly dont have any numbers.
I think if we don't quite manage getting both the Station Bay and Leo factory up and running this turn, we can probably squeeze Conestoga in around the final touches of that next turn, and possibly get a start on the GDrive Bay.
 
Well here's my first draft plan which I expect to change after ithillid posts Q1.

Didn't we promise to do an AEVA for services?

[] Plan Mines And Borders
-[]Infrastructure 5/5 70R
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9) 2 dice 20R 100%
(Progress 82/160: 10 resources per die) (-3 Logistics, +6 Housing)
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 1 Heavy Industry die 20R 100%
(Can spend mixed Heavy Industry and Infrastructure dice, at least 1 die must be Heavy Industry)
(Progress 3/550: 20 resources per die) (+2 Housing, -4 Labor, -2 Logistics, -4 Energy) (+280 Tiberium Processing Capacity, +8 Consumer Goods, +6 Capital Goods)
-[] Communal Housing Experiments 2 dice 20R 87%
(Progress 0/150: 10 resources per die) (+8 Housing) (-5 PS)
-[] Green Architecture Risk Assessment and Testing 1 die 10R 67%
(Progress 0/90: 10 resources per die)
-[]Heavy Industry 4/4 35R
-[] Advanced Alloys Development 1 die 15R 90%
(Progress 56/120: 15 resources per die)
-[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 2 dice 20R 0%
(Progress 0/300: 10 resources per die) (-2 Labor, -4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, +8 Consumer goods, +4 Logistics) (+10 Political Support)
-[] Chicago Planned City 1 die
-[]Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 50R
-[] Carbon Nanotube Foundry Expansions 1 die 20R 0%
(Progress 0/300: 20 resources per die) (+4 Capital Goods)
-[] Isolinear Peripherals Development 3 dice 30R 99%
(Progress 0/160: 10 resources per die)
-[]Agriculture 4/4 45R
-[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 3 dice 45R 95%
(Progress 74/240: 15 resources per die) (+4 Food, +4 Consumer goods, -2 Energy)
-[] Security Review 1 die
-[]Tiberium 7/7 315R
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 7 dice 140R 100%
(Progress 5/195: 20 resources per die) (Additional Income Trickle [20-35]) (+1 Yellow Zone Abatement) (-1 Capital Goods)
-[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 2) 7 free dice 175R 100%
(Progress 101/250: 25 resources per die) (Additional income trickle [15-35 resources]) (3 points of Red Zone Mitigation) (+2 Energy)
-[]Orbital 6/6 100R
-[] Station Bay 2 dice 40R 79%
(Progress 263/400: 20 resources per die) (-1 Capital Goods) (Discounts stations by 10 points)
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11) 2 dice 20R 100%
(Stage 12 81%)
(Progress 32/85: 10 resources per die) (10-15 resources) (Unlocks Orbital Power Stations)
-[] Leopard II Factory 2 dice + 1 admin die + 1 Erewhon die 80R 91%
(Progress 152/350: 20 resources per die) (5 point lunar discount, 5 point station discount)
-[]Services 4/5 70R
-[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 2 dice 50R 99%
(Progress 213/300: 25 resources per die) (+4 Health) (-1 Energy, -1 Capital Goods, -1 Labor)
-[] Specialist Isolinear Programming Development 2 dice 20R 95%
(Progress 0/120: 10 resources per die)
-[]Military 8/8 75R
-[] Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits 3 dice 15R 3%
(Progress 0/350: 5 resources per die)
-[] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) 1 die 10R 0%
(Progress 0/200: 10 resources per die) (-1 Labor, -1 Energy) (Very High Priority)
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (High Priority)
--[] New Sevastopol 1 die 20R 0%
(Progress 0/180: 20 resources per die)(-2 Labor, -2 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[] GD-3 Rifle Development 1 die 10R 100%
(Progress 0/30: 10 resources per die)
-[] Buckler Shield Development (Tech) 1 die 20R 47%
(Progress 0/100: 20 resources per die)
-[] Security Review 1 die
-[]Bureaucracy /4
-[] Security Reviews (Agriculture) 1 die + 1 Agriculture die 94%
(DC 50 + 1 operations die)
-[] Security Reviews (Military) 1 die + 1 Military die 94%
(DC 50 + 1 operations die)
-[] Administrative Assistance (Leopard II Factory) 2 dice
(Spend 2 Bureaucracy dice for 1 operations die, that die is rolled without bonuses)
-[]Free Dice 7/7
-[] 7 in Tiberium
-[]Resources Income 710/710 Reserve 90/245 (must maintain 100 for the banks)
 
Nothing so concrete as a plan, but a few suggestions.

First, only one or two Zone Armor Factories this year. We're committed to building eight of them and we might want to do more. Therefore, I would say we'd want to quickly get the last stretch of the myomer macro spinners so we can get that discount. The two factories might not be enough to cover our offensives, so I'm okay with one, maybe two more, but after that we should knuckle down and get that capstone bonus.

I'd also recommend getting those assault ships going. I'm going to guess it's a 250-300 R project, maybe less just because they don't need their own slips. Try to have a few ready in time for Karachi if Nod wants to make a fight out of the landing. They probably will.

I'd also like to get Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development done first turn if possible. Not because of its value as a weapon, personally I see sonics as offensive tools on the way out, what with all the laser, plasma and particle weapon development, but it's roots in Nod Harvesting Claws gives me hope that we could develop something for even more Red Zone Abatement. And maybe High Frequency Blades, but that's a distant hope.

As for the Talon pick, Buckler Shields. There's other projects they have I'm more invested in, Unmanned Support Ground Vehicles and Light Combat Lasers spring to mind, but Bucklers are on the cheap (for the Talons) side, would finish known available shield techs, and are something the navy wants for the Governor As, along with being a plan goal. Only thing I don't like is the 100 progress required, but we could get reasonably lucky. There might also be something about the Firestorm Barrier and Sparkle Shields, but I think that's going to be a deployment, and might get modified by Bucklers. I see a lot of benefit to getting that out of the way as well.

So my first round picks would be Assault Ships, Zrbite and Buckler development, and another Zone Armor Factory. My mental and sloppy math says that's about seven dice, so maybe clear another development project. Or just don't use it if we can't spare the cash.
 
Last edited:
That is not what the action says. The text says:

"A further wave of construction will finalize securing the routes to the Australian Red Zone."

That does not mean that it will be impossible to launch that particular border offensive without those particular railroads. Having the railroads may be desirable, but it may or may not be required. Perhaps you are right, but it is by no means certain that you are right.

It is entirely possilbe that even without the railroads being completely expanded, GDI can still launch a border offensive in that region.

Do you have evidence for this claim? I'd be happy to learn that the Lines have more phases, but there is no guarantee that they "need" to do what you expect them to do.

I'd rather be certain than right. Also not something you would consider conclusive, but:

[ ] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5)
A final major stage of development will put the full supportable effort into effectively containing the spread of Red Zones around the world. While it will not be the last gain in containment efforts, it is the point where further pushing will be seeing less impact on the spread of Tiberium.
(Progress 234/180: 25 resources per die) (additional income trickle (10-15 Resources) (3 points of Red Zone Mitigation)
[30, 72] [Income: +15]

A final major surge of construction has focused on the coastlines. There are tens of thousands of kilometers of coastline, far from human civilization, many out of effective range of any Brotherhood ballistic or cruise missile capable of bypassing the ASAT network. It is here where GDI has laid hundreds of small bases. Few are more than a modular dock large enough to run a harvester out of, crewed by maybe two dozen people, these are easy to erect, and easy to ship resources out of. While there are often intervening Yellow Zones controlled by the Brotherhood of Nod, these are increasingly beaten down. Life is by far the greater challenge. It is a hazardous duty assignment, fighting not only Tiberium, but sea and storm. While a ship, even one as large as a cargo ship can weather the grand storms that sweep over the seas, and the ion storms off of large Tiberium fields without worry, and the large fortresses of the Blue Zones, masses of concrete and steel, can do the same, these outposts are small, and vulnerable. Already some have been torn out to sea, and others dashed against the shoreline. While they can swim to some extent, that is a cold comfort to their crews.

Ragu and Arsene came back infected. Damnfool storms of Coral Seas dashed their outpost on the Tiberium reefs. Ragu might have been luckier, a large shard having impaled his side, the Tiberium treatment maybe could give back an extra decade or three.
Arsene? His faceplate hit the reefs first. Last I saw him, the docs were still trying to pull the shards out of his jaw. Fucks sake, this was supposed to be an easy posting. The Qatarites were on our side. Australia is supposed to be our continent. ...It's unfair.
– Classified recording from FOB 8-83-11, marked for InOps Morale Survey​

[ ] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6) (Updated)
With the containment lines at their full extent, further work can be done to reinforce existing positions and expand ongoing operations to continue offensives against the Red Zones. While more expensive and less effective than the original construction phases, it is still a good source of both harvests and abatement.
(Progress 54/200: 25 resources per die) (additional income trickle (10-15 Resources) (2 points of Red Zone Mitigation)
(Progress 0/200: 25 resources per die) (additional income trickle (10-15 Resources) (2 points of Red Zone Mitigation)
(Progress 0/200: 25 resources per die) (additional income trickle (10-15 Resources) (2 points of Red Zone Mitigation)

[ ] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6)
With GDI having put its beachheads at the edges of the Red Zones, a further expansion of the containment lines is viable. While somewhat constrained by the limits of the Zone Operations Command, it will both support the Initiative's Forgotten allies, and put more pressure on the Brotherhood's back lines.
(Progress 54/225: 25 resources per die) (additional income trickle (10-20 Resources) (3 points of Red Zone Mitigation) (+1 Energy)
(Progress 0/225: 25 resources per die) (additional income trickle (10-20 Resources) (3 points of Red Zone Mitigation) (+1 Energy)
(Progress 0/225: 25 resources per die) (additional income trickle (10-20 Resources) (3 points of Red Zone Mitigation) (+1 Energy)

With the expansion of the Red Zones our old Containment Lines are no longer whole and we need to rebuild them and then reinforce them this time instead of letting them fall apart again.
 
I'd be down to work that into Q2 when we might be able to peel off an Orbital die (replaced by a free one currently allocated to more Tib mining) and try and blitz it down.
I don't think we should be this averse to peeling off an Orbital die at this stage. Remember, the Orbital die lost to the AEVA installation is far more than offset by the bonuses the installation provides.

Furthermore, there is a high chance that we won't be able to finish both the station bay and the Leopard II yard in 2062Q1, no matter how hard we try. We may well be looking at doing other desirable projects in 2062Q2 anyway and starting Columbia in 2062Q3, making it considerably less relevant whether we roll five dice or six in 'Q1.

I'd rather not give up the tiberium mining focus for now, but I really, really recommend rationing our AEVAs carefully, because our supply of Capital Goods is finite. We have to ask ourselves "which of these fields are important enough that you really want this for this particular field?"

All I know is that we need to focus on our plan goals. None of that finishing on the last turn nonsense.

Every turn each category should focus on whatever goals that category has until it's cleared. Resources permitting of course. Then that category can do whatever it wants.
I don't think we should be quite that dogmatic, because there are often genuine needs that matter and aren't a Plan goal. For instance, Light Industry kinda needs to take care of Reykjavik Phase 5 at some point during the current Plan to meet our capstone target. That doesn't mean we need to start it now, and arguably we shouldn't try- because the Resource cost of activating Light Industry dice at 20 R/die impacts what we can and cannot do elsewhere this turn.

Likewise, we need to consider abstract important stuff like providing Housing for the population, even if that isn't formally a Plan target.

With that said, yes, we need to prioritize in certain areas. Though prioritization can be complicated- for example, finishing Advanced Alloys research may well unlock benefits that make it a lot easier to fulfill industrial capstone projects.

I know it goes against the idea of 'station bays first' for maximum discounts but I do think phase 1 of colombia to get some idea of the early teething issues in Q1 would be helpful in providing a testbed and unlocking better space housing options for later.
I don't think it's worth it, because it increases the total number of dice we spend on Orbital projects over the course of the plan. We're gonna be starting Columbia very soon anyway; it's just a question of how fast we can get the needed infrastructure in place, which is kind of limited by there being multiple substantial projects involved.

I'm pretty confident in things working out.

I think if we don't quite manage getting both the Station Bay and Leo factory up and running this turn, we can probably squeeze Conestoga in around the final touches of that next turn, and possibly get a start on the GDrive Bay.
While investing several 30 R/die dice in 2062Q2 may be impractical, there is a definite possibility that we'll be in that position and respond to it in more or less that way.

-[]Heavy Industry 4/4 35R
-[] Advanced Alloys Development 1 die 15R 90%
(Progress 56/120: 15 resources per die)
-[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 2 dice 20R 0%
(Progress 0/300: 10 resources per die) (-2 Labor, -4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, +8 Consumer goods, +4 Logistics) (+10 Political Support)
-[] Chicago Planned City 1 die
I personally think investing in Chicago is a mistake for this turn, because it costs more per die and because completing Phase 4 is important but not urgent- a delay of one or two turns will not have particularly bad consequences. Also, when we do spend on Chicago, we want to spend more Infrastructure and less Heavy Industry dice, not a 1:1 ratio, because Heavy Industry dice are going to be in much tighter demand throughout the Plan.

-[]Tiberium 7/7 315R
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 7 dice 140R 100%
(Progress 5/195: 20 resources per die) (Additional Income Trickle [20-35]) (+1 Yellow Zone Abatement) (-1 Capital Goods)
-[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 2) 7 free dice 175R 100%
(Progress 101/250: 25 resources per die) (Additional income trickle [15-35 resources]) (3 points of Red Zone Mitigation) (+2 Energy)
I definitely think we should be trying to do super glacier mining.

-[]Orbital 6/6 100R
-[] Station Bay 2 dice 40R 79%
(Progress 263/400: 20 resources per die) (-1 Capital Goods) (Discounts stations by 10 points)
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11) 2 dice 20R 100%
(Stage 12 81%)
(Progress 32/85: 10 resources per die) (10-15 resources) (Unlocks Orbital Power Stations)
-[] Leopard II Factory 2 dice + 1 admin die + 1 Erewhon die 80R 91%
(Progress 152/350: 20 resources per die) (5 point lunar discount, 5 point station discount)
We will almost certainly have more desirable and efficient things to do with Bureaucracy dice than roll administrative assistance, and we are not yet above the need to save money by rolling efficiently.

-[]Resources Income 710/710 Reserve 90/245 (must maintain 100 for the banks)
Doesn't that mean this plan overspends hard enough to mess up our central banking plans?

Nothing so concrete as a plan, but a few suggestions.

First, only one or two Zone Armor Factories this year...
Hm. Fair point about trying to push for the myomers. I'm thinking in terms of 1-2 more soon, probably (for me) starting in Q2 and finishing in Q3, since I'm trying to keep things cheap in Q1. Reykjavik work is likely to begin (for me) in Q2 and continue through about 2063Q1. I'm not really that concerned about avoiding starting more power armor factories without finishing Reykjavik, though, because I really do want the first set of six ready by early 2063 so that we have a solid stream of power armor troops for Karachi.

I'd also recommend getting those assault ships going. I'm going to guess it's a 250-300 R project, maybe less just because they don't need their own slips. Try to have a few ready in time for Karachi if Nod wants to make a fight out of the landing. They probably will.
The timing doesn't work out. The ships will still physically take too long to build for it to be reasonably likely to have them at Karachi time, even if they're using existing slips. Probably especially if, because it means that they have to wait for any escort carriers in those yards to finish before we can start them.

As for the Talon pick, Buckler Shields. There's other projects they have I'm more invested in, Unmanned Support Ground Vehicles and Light Combat Lasers spring to mind, but Bucklers are on the cheap (for the Talons) side, would finish known available shield techs, and are something the navy wants for the Governor As, along with being a plan goal. Only thing I don't like is the 100 progress required, but we could get reasonably lucky. There might also be something about the Firestorm Barrier and Sparkle Shields, but I think that's going to be a deployment, and might get modified by Bucklers. I see a lot of benefit to getting that out of the way as well.
Personally I favor MRASP because it's likely to have interesting applications that, importantly, take a while to figure out, so an early start may have surprising long term positive effects.

With that said, I'm trying to keep the overall Military budget down in 2062Q1, so I'm not thinking "what do I want most" and just grabbing a bunch of everything. I'm thinking in terms of what would be good and cheap and is desired by the armed forces, so there's money to spend on civilian stuff too.

I'd rather be certain than right.
There is no more efficient way to waste a person's time than by telling them things one is certain must be true, but that are factually incorrect. If one is going to participate in conversations, paying attention to facts matters.

With the expansion of the Red Zones our old Containment Lines are no longer whole and we need to rebuild them and then reinforce them this time instead of letting them fall apart again.
The text literally does not say the Lines "fell apart" because the Red Zones expanded. The current generation of the Lines was built not that long ago, when the Red Zones were roughly the same size they are now. They have not collapsed or disappeared; they are still providing the same mitigation levels they always have. I don't know what you're talking about here.
 
Last edited:
I'm personally hoping for the Support Unmanned Vehicle Development, though MRASP is good too. I'd like to improve our drone harvesters.

[ ] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment
While not as critical as the new tendril harvesters, harvesting claws have potential to improve the efficiency of the vein mines, and reduce overall equipment damage.
(Progress 363/380: 15 resources per die) (-3 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -1 Labor) (+5 resources per turn) (Improves efficiency of Vein mines) (Will complete Q1 2062) [69, 82, 95]

Instead of traditional harvester units, most of the platforms using the new claws are drone-based – and relatively simple drones at that. Rather than being actual harvesters themselves, they are intended to break larger tiberium crystals apart, making it easier for other harvesters to come by and pick up the tiberium afterwards. While assembling a relatively simple remotely-operated UGV is an easy enough matter – something that GDI's robotics laboratories can hammer out in an afternoon – it is much harder to integrate into actual practice.
---
 
Personally I favor MRASP because it's likely to have interesting applications that, importantly, take a while to figure out, so an early start may have surprising long term positive effects.
MRASP is something of an odd duck. It's both a technology and a platform. It's certainly going to have teething issues, as that is the nature of Talon projects, and to work out those issues it needs time.

However, Talons don't put together a platform just to test once piece of equipment or technology, at least not here. They take a grabbag of techs they've been working on, then they put them together and give it things to shoot at. I feel that would be the case here.

I'm not saying hold off on MRASP til the last moment. Just develop two or three other technologies they're working with and then go for the MRASP. Sure, it'll have more teething troubles, but that's the point of the Talons. They get the overengineered but finicky prototypes so everyone else gets the reliable version.

Right now all we have for the MRASP is its own expanded mobile basing abilities and the Sparkle Shields with Firestorm Barrier fun times. Get like, the Buckler Shield or Heavy Laser or Ground Drone, just so more testing can get done at once. Heck, just one of them would make me feel better. Though on second thought, probably not the Ground Drone, that's also a weird Technology/Platform as I recon it.

If time is a concern, at least go for the Heavy Combat Laser first. It's cheap-ish at 20R, will finish with one die barring a crit fail, and is something the Talons are notably interested in. Also a plan goal.
 
I don't think we should be quite that dogmatic, because there are often genuine needs that matter and aren't a Plan goal. For instance, Light Industry kinda needs to take care of Reykjavik Phase 5 at some point during the current Plan to meet our capstone target. That doesn't mean we need to start it now, and arguably we shouldn't try- because the Resource cost of activating Light Industry dice at 20 R/die impacts what we can and cannot do elsewhere this turn.

Likewise, we need to consider abstract important stuff like providing Housing for the population, even if that isn't formally a Plan target.

With that said, yes, we need to prioritize in certain areas. Though prioritization can be complicated- for example, finishing Advanced Alloys research may well unlock benefits that make it a lot easier to fulfill industrial capstone projects.
I more or less agree. It's just... we have a lot to do this plan. A lot on our plates.

We don't know what emergency or opportunity might pop up so we really need to focus as best as we can on knocking stuff out. We get distracted by shiny new things quite a bit but I don't think we have that much flexibility anymore.

And Reykjavik should probably happen fairly quickly. The capstone should be quite useful with all the armor factories we're building.
 
I'd also like to get Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development done first turn if possible. Not because of its value as a weapon, personally I see sonics as offensive tools on the way out, what with all the laser, plasma and particle weapon development, but it's roots in Nod Harvesting Claws gives me hope that we could develop something for even more Red Zone Abatement. And maybe High Frequency Blades, but that's a distant hope.

Pretty sure there was flavor text about Sonic weapons burning out during recent red zone action due to use. So taking this might have positive results that way as well.

Found it

The offensive has been a slog, gaining meters and in some cases losing kilometers overnight as tiberium erupts beneath their feet, Shatterers burning out their crystals, and Pacifiers lobbing tens of thousands of rounds into the great masses of deadly green.
 
[] Draft Plan: AEVA Space Core
-[] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 50R
--[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9) 82/160: 2 dice 20R, Phase 9 100% chance, Phase 10 13% chance
--[] Communal Housing Experiments 0/150: 2 dice 20R, 87% chance
--[] Green Architecture Risk Assessment and Testing 0/90: 1 die 10R, 67% chance
-[] Heavy Industry 4/4 dice 45R
--[] Advanced Alloys Development 56/120: 1 die 15R, 90% chance
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 0/300: 3 dice 30R, 26% chance
-[] Light And Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 50R
--[] Civilian Ultralight Factories 0/190: 2 dice 30R, 34% chance
--[] Isolinear Peripherals Development 0/160: 2 dice 20R, 70% chance
-[] Agriculture 4/4 dice 30R
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 56/450: 3 dice 30R, 3/5 median
--[] Security Review 1 die
-[] Tiberium 7/7 + 7 Free dice 385R
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 2) 101/750: 7 dice 175R, Stage 2 100% chance, Stage 3 100% chance, Stage 4 61% chance
--[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 1) 0/510: 7 dice 210R, Stage 1 100% chance, Stage 2 98% chance, Stage 3 11% chance
-[] Orbital 6/6 + Erewhon dice 100R
--[] Station Bay 248/400: 2 dice 40R, 79% chance
--[] Leopard II Factory 152?/350: 2 dice 40R, 31% chance
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11) 32/170: 1 die + Erewhon 20 R, Stage 11 99% chance, Stage 12 58% chance
--[] AEVA 1 die
-[] Services 5/5 dice 95R
--[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Deployment (Orbital) 0/200: 3 dice 60R, 88% chance
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 213?/300: 1 die 25R, 56% chance
--[] Specialist Isolinear Programming Development 0/120: 1 die 10R, 32% chance
-[] Military 8/8 dice 65R
--[] Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits 0/350: 3 dice 15R, 3% chance
--[] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) 0/200: 2 dice 20R, 29% chance
--[] GD-3 Rifle Development 0/30 1 die 10R 100%
--[] Buckler Shield Development 0/100: 1 die 20R, 51% chance
--[] Security Review 1 die
-[] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice
--[] Security Review Agriculture
--[] Security Review Military

820R/825R Budget (680 Income + 145 Reserve)
7/7 Free dice
1/1 Erewhon die

Projected Budget Q2 (Average): 680 (Current) + 5 (Reserve) + 25 (Border Offensives 2) + 25 (Border Offensives 3) + 25 * 61% (Border Offensives 4) + 65 (Deep Glaciers 1) + 65 * 98% (Deep Glaciers 2) + 65 * 11% (Deep Glaciers 3) + 12.5 * 99% (Orbital Cleanup 11) + 12.5 * 58% (Orbital Cleanup 12) = 905.725 on average (881.1 Income + 24.625 Reserve)
Energy Budget (Worst Case): 33 (Current) - 4 (Personal EVs) - 1 (Civilian Ultra Lights) + 4 (Border Offensives 2-3) + 1 (Deep Glaciers 1) - 3 (AEVA Orbital) - 1 (Hospitals) - 1 (Railgun Munitions) = 28
Capital Goods Budget (Worst Case): 20 (Current) + 2 (DIA) - 2 (Personal EVs) - 4 (AEVA Orbital) - 1 (Hospitals) = 15

As the name of this draft plan suggests its goal is to get an AEVA to help Erewhon in Orbital which, considering just how big our goals there are, we'd expect to save ~5 dice in the category (assuming worst case scenario with the Space Pop per Die cost and subtracting the die locked for it this turn). It still has good odds of completing the Orbital Cleanup thanks to Erewhon's dedicated processors tracking the last bits of space debris.
 
Last edited:
Might be best mechanically but that would probably be a boring job for Erewhon which we have been trying to avoid lately.

The other option would be putting him alone on the Outer System Survey Probes, which I'd rather not do as I'd like to save that project for next turn to do it, Conestoga Dev, and anything that didn't complete this turn. Honestly, preventing Kessler Syndrome is important work and I'd like think Erewhon would appreciate that fact, and that it is an interesting orbital mechanics problem to solve, unlike storing beans.
 
I mean... maybe?

Like, I can't imagine we'll get absolutely no resistance but the Bannerjees efforts in the last dustup were basically pro forma.

If we take Karachi, which is explicitly abandoned and then just do the GDI beeline straight for the BZ we'll certainly get the locals but there's a chance, not sure how big but a chance, the main part of India leaves us the hell alone.
 
I'd say that orbital cleanup is fine for Erewhon, it's not counting beans it's piloting a swarm of laser sweepers through the infinite vastness of space or whatever.

Re: Chicago, I actually say we should finish it ASAP. Yeah just tossing 1 HI die with no Infra accompaniment introduces one turn of slight inefficiencies, but an extra 6 capital goods multiple turns earlier than we'd otherwise get them are more than worth inefficiencies on 1 HI die. I don't think we'll have the Infra dice freed up to start really cranking away at Chicago again for at least 2062 and probably into 2063. Get those cap goods ticking into our stockpile, if we're THIS close to finishing a solidly productive industrial project we should just tap it over the line and get the benefits instead of stalling for a year+.
 
I'd say that orbital cleanup is fine for Erewhon, it's not counting beans it's piloting a swarm of laser sweepers through the infinite vastness of space or whatever.

Re: Chicago, I actually say we should finish it ASAP. Yeah just tossing 1 HI die with no Infra accompaniment introduces one turn of slight inefficiencies, but an extra 6 capital goods multiple turns earlier than we'd otherwise get them are more than worth inefficiencies on 1 HI die. I don't think we'll have the Infra dice freed up to start really cranking away at Chicago again for at least 2062 and probably into 2063. Get those cap goods ticking into our stockpile, if we're THIS close to finishing a solidly productive industrial project we should just tap it over the line and get the benefits instead of stalling for a year+.
Yeah with stockpiling being a thing. Plus there are probably more subtle narrative benefits to finishing that phase than being so close to finishing but not for a year or more.
 
Back
Top