Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

trooperist · Aug 10, 2022

[X] Plan Dmol8's Plan But Different

Simon_Jester · Aug 10, 2022

staplesdex2 said:
I'm hoping to see a new phase of Arcologies if only to read the interesting narrative that comes with it.

I'd be delighted, but budget is a problem in the near future. We're almost forced to finish the last remaining phases of Blue Zone Apartments and any Communal Housing we can get, just for the low cost.

Crazycryodude said:
Arcologies right now are coming online at one point of housing per turn, so even a very generous 50/50 ratio between BZ natives and YZ refugees only houses half a point of refugees per turn. At that rate it will take somewhere around 30-40 years to house just the Regency War refugees. Passive arcology growth is not a viable solution.

Well, if we're lucky, maybe we can talk the government into funding the Bureau of Arcologies with some of the funds we lose in reallocation (that's about a 500 RpT sized chunk, by the way, plus or minus a bit- it's big but it's not infinite).

But yeah, we should plan around having to address this ourselves.

Voidseer · Aug 10, 2022

Lurking_Badger said:
I actually know a bit more about how the metal refining process works. I'm not an expert, so don't quote me on any of this.

The current method of turning raw oxide into elemental metals that is being tested is electrolysis smelting. This is mostly used in the creation of aluminum in the modern world and is significantly different from the reduction smelting that you might be familiar with. This is likely because there is a lack of chemical reduction agents, like carbon, to remove oxygen. (There are a bunch more refining methods using other chemicals, but they are likely too resource intensive for the moon.)

The basic premise of electrolysis smelting is that you melt your oxide then run a current through it from an anode to a cathode. The anode attracts all the oxygen ions, that turn into a gas, and the cathode attracts the metal ions, that fall to the bottom. The problem is of course that oxides have high melting points, so they are mixed with some sort of electrolyte to lower the melting point while still allowing for the flow of ions. It is the flow of (a fuckton of) electricity that keeps this all molten.

So going back to what you said, induction smelting isn't actually being used at all in the process of refining raw oxide. However, it would likely be used to heat and melt the resulting metals for industrial use. (Hope that was a good enough explanation)

So simplifying what I am understanding here is it will function like an DC Electric arc furnace where the current going through the charge is pulling double duty heating the metal oxides while separating the Oxygen from the charge. This is being done in the absence of carbon to readily collect the oxygen, even though we could feasibly ship several tons of carbon from Earth; so as to reduce logistical strain on our space shipping, and avoid over stressing our lunar facilities atmospheric systems with CO2 and other possible pollutants.

Dmol8 · Aug 10, 2022

Derpmind said:
I've removed the Isolinear spending from my SCED plan. So it's spending far less of our Credit reserves now.

@Dmol8 Are you going to update your plan so it doesn't overspend Pathfinder Days? You still have the lead by far, with 7 votes for your plan compared to 2 for Lightwhisper's or my Plan.

Doing it right now. Gimmie a sec. Edit: I live in Serbia people. I was asleep. Edit 2: Done, but there was nothing else to spend 14 Pathfinder days on. @sunrise how is that Voyager mission supposed to work? Do we have less Pathfinder days the turn after it is done?

Lurking_Badger · Aug 11, 2022

Voidseer said:
-Snip-

That is pretty much it. We already are using it in real life to create aluminum, as I said, but it is also used to create extremely pure iron.

The problem is that the current methods use graphite for the cathode and anode, because it can withstand the extreme heat. Since they are made of carbon, it would convert the O2 to CO2. It has also not been done for titanium or magnesium oxide, as far as I know, because of the extremely high melting points.

That means that there are several issues to be solved including making better cathode and anode, and finding a way to melt the oxides. Finding some electrolyte to melt them in, massively increase the electricity used, and/or get another source of heat. These are all problems since getting rid of the heat will also be an issue.

We could always go around the long way which is using aluminum to extract the oxygen from magnesium oxide, then using the magnesium in the Kroll process to get titanium. It would require importing chlorine, but that can actually be recycled using electrolysis. It would actually be easy since the biggest worry is exposure to water.

Simon_Jester · Aug 11, 2022

There may be some hilariously heat-tolerant alien alloy that can be used for the cathode and anode?

sunrise · Aug 11, 2022

Dmol8 said:
Doing it right now. Gimmie a sec. Edit: I live in Serbia people. I was asleep. Edit 2: Done, but there was nothing else to spend 14 Pathfinder days on. @sunrise how is that Voyager mission supposed to work? Do we have less Pathfinder days the turn after it is done?

It probably should take more than 90 Days to get there and back but I'm not sure how to calculate where they are in 2061 and how long it would take to visit them by a G-Drive ship so I set the time needed to 90 days.
This time includes maintenance and the time spend at the probes unless @BOTcommander is able to calculate the actual time this would take.

Oledoms · Aug 11, 2022

Ithillid said:
[ ] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6)
(Progress 54/225: 25 resources per die) (additional income trickle (10-15 Resources) (2 points of Red Zone Mitigation) (+1 Energy)

Ithillid said:
[ ] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6)
(Progress 54/225: 25 resources per die) (additional income trickle (10-20 Resources) (3 points of Red Zone Mitigation) (+1 Energy)

Huh, I just noticed that our RZ Mitigation got added by 1 from Q2 to Q3. Was it due to the Tendrils?

BOTcommander · Aug 11, 2022

sunrise said:
This time includes maintenance and the time spend at the probes unless @BOTcommander is able to calculate the actual time this would take.

Voyager 1 is so far away you would need Pathfinder days from two Quarters. As of January 2022 it is 14.5 billion kilometers from earth and moving away at 17 km/s, this would give Pathfinder an incredible distance from earth in 2065 of 37.5 billion kilometers which would take Pathfinder an incredible 51 days for a one way trip, during which its maximum speed would be almost 11k km/s.

sunrise · Aug 11, 2022

The +5 to lunar rolls the current facility gives is mostly due the oxygen produced making logistics easier as it is close to the main SCED base and CrateScope buildsite can be reached with a rover from there.

Derpmind · Aug 11, 2022

Dmol8 said:
Doing it right now. Gimmie a sec. Edit: I live in Serbia people. I was asleep. Edit 2: Done, but there was nothing else to spend 14 Pathfinder days on. @sunrise how is that Voyager mission supposed to work? Do we have less Pathfinder days the turn after it is done?

In my plan, I sent 4 Station Parts to the Venus Research Station, (12 Pathfinder Days,) since we can only send 4 Parts per turn and so the speed of construction there is heavily limited. (Will take 5 turns of effort.) It costs 20 more C, but we have the spare IP to do it, especially if you don't build the one Station Part for Gagarin Station so we can use the free station part IP on the Venus Station instead. (Which would also save 5 C.)

Dmol8 · Aug 11, 2022

Derpmind said:
In my plan, I sent 4 Station Parts to the Venus Research Station, (12 Pathfinder Days,) since we can only send 4 Parts per turn and so the speed of construction there is heavily limited. (Will take 5 turns of effort.) It costs 20 more C, but we have the spare IP to do it, especially if you don't build the one Station Part for Gagarin Station so we can use the free station part IP on the Venus Station instead. (Which would also save 5 C.)

That I guess is fine. I'll mod my plan again. Gimmie a sec.

Edit: No wait I don't have enough IP for such a modification. Sorry my plan stays the same on this.

Derpmind · Aug 11, 2022

Dmol8 said:
That I guess is fine. I'll mod my plan again. Gimmie a sec.

Edit: No wait I don't have enough IP for such a modification. Sorry my plan stays the same on this.

You have a bunch of IP put into the Craterscope Imaging Sensor and the Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer, but these won't be needed until after the Craterscope Structure is finished. That won't happen until after next turn; with no bonus 4d100 into a 0/400 project, it can't finish this turn unless it rolls four natural 100s. (And it could take a third turn if it doesn't roll well enough; 8 dice is only 52% likely to finish.) I would take the needed IP off the Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer, as we don't need to finish it this turn. (But we can still make progress on it.)

Dmol8 · Aug 11, 2022

Derpmind said:
You have a bunch of IP put into the Craterscope Imaging Sensor and the Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer, but these won't be needed until after the Craterscope Structure is finished. That won't happen until after next turn; with no bonus 4d100 into a 0/400 project, it can't finish this turn unless it rolls four natural 100s. (And it could take a third turn if it doesn't roll well enough; 8 dice is only 52% likely to finish.) I would take the needed IP off the Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer, as we don't need to finish it this turn. (But we can still make progress on it.)

Yes I know you did that with that argument, but I'm expecting the assembly next turn to be taxing to our IP as is so I'm not doing that.

Cerazor · Aug 11, 2022

Hmmm. Maybe next SCED I can do done make myself a plan.

Derpmind · Aug 11, 2022

Dmol8 said:
Yes I know you did that with that argument, but I'm expecting the assembly next turn to be taxing to our IP as is so I'm not doing that.

The Venus station parts would only cost 30-40 IP, depending on if you're still doing the the Gagarin Station part or not. And you're able to spend 124/230 IP on Assembly; we'll have plenty of IP over the next two turns to handle the rest of the Craterscope Assembly projects. But not building the Venus station delays how fast we can finish it by one turn, no matter how we shuffle our resources around. Most projects can be rushed forwards with concentrated effort, but this one can't.

Also, this is the one difference between my plan and Dmol8's, if anyone still interested in voting for SCEDQuest.

P.S. Your Development section costs 21 IP, not 17. (G-Drive +10, Ore +4, Tic Tank +4, three Craterscope at +1 each.)

Dmol8 · Aug 11, 2022

Derpmind said:
The Venus station parts would only cost 30-40 IP, depending on if you're still doing the the Gagarin Station part or not. And you're able to spend 124/230 IP on Assembly; we'll have plenty of IP over the next two turns to handle the rest of the Craterscope Assembly projects. But not building the Venus station delays how fast we can finish it by one turn, no matter how we shuffle our resources around. Most projects can be rushed forwards with concentrated effort, but this one can't.

Also, this is the one difference between my plan and Dmol8's, if anyone still interested in voting for SCEDQuest.

P.S. Your Development section costs 21 IP, not 17. (G-Drive +10, Ore +4, Tic Tank +4, three Craterscope at +1 each.)

I really fucking hate that trait being genetic and running in my family. Alright I'll fix my IP calculations but do keep in mind:

sunrise said:
[]Venus Research Station
A station in orbit of Venus has been requested to safely study tiberium samples collected there as they can easily be returned to the surface if needed. The station will float in the upper atmosphere with oxygen-nitrogen as a lifting gas. A second goal of the station would be a study of Venus's unique weather phenomena
(1/20 Station Parts; 5C and 10 IP per Part)(Astrotech Teams -2)(For one station part per turn, the IP cost is waived)(max four parts per trip)

It's max four parts per trip with each trip being 12 Pathfinder Days. We could hypothetically finish the Venus Research Station next turn if we were willing to take the hit to our IP production for a turn. So I don't feel the need to do Venus this turn that urgently as it only costs us 60 Pathfinder Days, 95 C and 190 IP. We can split that between two turns.

Edit: IP math rebalanced.

Derpmind · Aug 11, 2022

Oh. Whoops. I read that as "4 parts per turn." Didn't realize we can do multiple trips each turn. Sorry about that.

sunrise · Aug 11, 2022

It looks like the votes for the SCED quest are in so the vote is closed
It is nice to see so many talk about the quest and make plans.

Adhoc vote count started by sunrise on Aug 11, 2022 at 8:40 AM, finished with 95 posts and 12 votes.

7 people have voted
[X] Plan Driven by G
-[X] Earth-Orbit Facilities Edit 2: 5 C 9 IP:
--[X]Gagarin Station (Stage 4)(Updated) (2/10 Gagarin Station Parts; 5C and 10 IP per Part)(+5 to all rolls, +1 Research Die)(-3 Astrotech Teams)(For one station part per turn, the IP cost is waived) 1 Part 5 C
--[X] Enterprise Orbital Assembler (Phase 3 of 4)(Updated) 0/80 9 IP
-[X] Lunar Facilities (4 Dice available) 60 C + 60 IP:
--[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 1) 15/30 +15 Parts 60 C 60 IP
---[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 2) 0/400 4 Dice
-[X] Assembly 124 IP
--[X] Craterscope Imaging Sensor 46/120 IP 74 IP
--[X] Build Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer 0/50IP 50 IP
-[X] Development (6 Dice) +30 83 C + 17 IP
--[X] G-Drive Improvement Program 198/400 (15C/Die +10IP) Max 1 Die per Turn 15 C 10 IP
--[X] Ore Electrolysis Smelter Development 164/200 (2C/Die+4IP/DIe) 1 Die = 2 C 4 IP
--[X] Atmospheric Containment Shimmer Optimization 147/400 (1C/Die) 3 Dice = 3 C
--[X] Tick Tank Dig Experiments 137/150 (3C/Die+4IP/Die) 1 Die = 3 C 4 IP
--[X] Craterscope Asteroid Belt Detector 184/200 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
--[X]Craterscope Tiberium Detector 55/125 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
--[X]Craterscope Moon Detector 110/125 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
-[X] Space Command Mission Planning (4 Dice) +5
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Charon) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Pluto) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Orbital Scan (Oberon) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Orbital Scan (Titania) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
-[X] Missions 20 IP
--[X]Mars (13 Pathfinder days)
---[X] Mars particle collection mission 3/6 max attempts DC65 can be repeated, DC lowered by 5 per attempt) 33 Pathfinder Days
--[X] Other 20 IP
---[X] Pathfinder Drive Testing (NEW) 20 IP 40 Pathfinder Days +1 Die to G-Drive Improvement Program
- Dmol8
- Simon_Jester
- doruma1920
- Cerazor
- Redhead222
- KnightDisciple
- Voidseer
3 people have voted
[X] Plan Dmol8's Plan But Different
-[X] Lunar Facilities (4 Dice available) 60 C + 60 IP:
--[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 1) 15/30 +15 Parts 60 C 60 IP
---[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 2) 0/400 4 Dice
-[X] Venus Facilities (12 Pathfinder days) 20 C 30 IP
--[X] Venus Research Station 1/20 Parts +4 Parts -20C -30 IC (1 Part's IP cost waived. Can only deliver 4 parts per turn.)
-[X] Assembly 99 IP
--[X] Craterscope Imaging Sensor 46/120 IP 74 IP
--[X] Build Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer 0/50IP 25 IP
-[X] Development (6 Dice) +30 83 C + 21 IP
--[X] G-Drive Improvement Program 198/400 (15C/Die +10IP) Max 1 Die per Turn 15 C 10 IP
--[X] Ore Electrolysis Smelter Development 164/200 (2C/Die+4IP/DIe) 1 Die = 2 C 4 IP
--[X] Atmospheric Containment Shimmer Optimization 147/400 (1C/Die) 3 Dice = 3 C
--[X] Tick Tank Dig Experiments 137/150 (3C/Die+4IP/Die) 1 Die = 3 C 4 IP
--[X] Craterscope Asteroid Belt Detector 184/200 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
--[X]Craterscope Tiberium Detector 55/125 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
--[X]Craterscope Moon Detector 110/125 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
-[X] Space Command Mission Planning (4 Dice) +5
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Charon) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Pluto) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Orbital Scan (Oberon) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Orbital Scan (Titania) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
-[X] Missions 20 IP
--[X]Mars (13 Pathfinder days)
---[X] 1X Mars particle collection mission 3/6 max attempts DC65 can be repeated, DC lowered by 5 per attempt) 20 Pathfinder Days
--[X] Other 20 IP 40 Pathfinder Days
---[X] Pathfinder Drive Testing (NEW) 20 IP 40 Pathfinder Days +1 Die to G-Drive Improvement Program
2 people have voted
[X] Plan Driven by G, less eezo
-[X] Earth-Orbit Facilities Edit 2: 5 C 9 IP:
--[X]Gagarin Station (Stage 4)(Updated) (2/10 Gagarin Station Parts; 5C and 10 IP per Part)(+5 to all rolls, +1 Research Die)(-3 Astrotech Teams)(For one station part per turn, the IP cost is waived) 1 Part 5 C
--[X] Enterprise Orbital Assembler (Phase 3 of 4)(Updated) 0/80 9 IP
-[X] Lunar Facilities (4 Dice available) 60 C + 60 IP:
--[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 1) 15/30 +15 Parts 60 C 60 IP
---[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 2) 0/400 4 Dice
-[X] Assembly 124 IP
--[X] Craterscope Imaging Sensor 46/120 IP 74 IP
--[X] Build Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer 0/50IP 50 IP
-[X] Development (6 Dice) +30 83 C + 17 IP
--[X] G-Drive Improvement Program 198/400 (15C/Die +10IP) Max 1 Die per Turn 15 C 10 IP
--[X] Ore Electrolysis Smelter Development 164/200 (2C/Die+4IP/DIe) 1 Die = 2 C 4 IP
--[X] Atmospheric Containment Shimmer Optimization 147/400 (1C/Die) 3 Dice = 3 C
--[X] Tick Tank Dig Experiments 137/150 (3C/Die+4IP/Die) 1 Die = 3 C 4 IP
--[X] Craterscope Asteroid Belt Detector 184/200 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
--[X]Craterscope Tiberium Detector 55/125 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
--[X]Craterscope Moon Detector 110/125 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
-[X] Space Command Mission Planning (4 Dice) +5
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Charon) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Pluto) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Uranus) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Titan) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
-[X] Missions 20 IP
--[X]Mars (13 Pathfinder days)
---[X] 1X Mars particle collection mission 3/6 max attempts DC65 can be repeated, DC lowered by 5 per attempt) 20 Pathfinder Days
--[X] Other 20 IP
---[X] Pathfinder Drive Testing (NEW) 20 IP 40 Pathfinder Days +1 Die to G-Drive Improvement Program
- Lightwhispers
- BOTcommander
1 people have voted
[x] Plan More Isolinear Chips and Enterprise Industry
-[x] Earthside Facilities (Unlimited Dice) 75C 0IP
-[x]Isolinear Computing Center(Updated)
-[X] Earth-Orbit Facilities: 5 C 80 IP:
--[X]Gagarin Station (Stage 4)(Updated) (2/10 Gagarin Station Parts; 5C and 10 IP per Part)(+5 to all rolls, +1 Research Die)(-3 Astrotech Teams)(For one station part per turn, the IP cost is waived) 1 Part 5 C
--[X] Enterprise Orbital Assembler (Phase 3 of 4)(Updated) 0/80 80 IP
-[X] Lunar Facilities (4 Dice available) 60 C + 60 IP:
--[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 1) 15/30 +15 Parts 60 C 60 IP
---[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 2) 0/400 4 Dice
-[X] Assembly 105 IP
--[X] Craterscope Imaging Sensor 46/120 IP 53 IP
-[X] Development (6 Dice) +30 83 C + 17 IP
--[X] G-Drive Improvement Program 198/400 (15C/Die +10IP) Max 1 Die per Turn 15 C 10 IP
--[X] Ore Electrolysis Smelter Development 164/200 (2C/Die+4IP/DIe) 1 Die = 2 C 4 IP
--[X] Atmospheric Containment Shimmer Optimization 147/400 (1C/Die) 3 Dice = 3 C
--[X] Tick Tank Dig Experiments 137/150 (3C/Die+4IP/Die) 1 Die = 3 C 4 IP
--[X] Craterscope Asteroid Belt Detector 184/200 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
--[X]Craterscope Tiberium Detector 55/125 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
--[X]Craterscope Moon Detector 110/125 (10C/Die+1IP/Die)(Optional) 1 Die = 20 C + 1 IP
-[X] Space Command Mission Planning (4 Dice) +5
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Charon) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Pluto) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Uranus) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
--[X] Mission: Surface Exploration (Titan) (Requires one Die) 1 Die
-[X] Missions 20 IP
--[X]Mars (13 Pathfinder days)
---[X] 2 X Mars particle collection mission 3/6 max attempts DC65 can be repeated, DC lowered by 5 per attempt) 40 Pathfinder Days
--[X] Other
---[X] Pathfinder Drive Testing (NEW) 20 IP 40 Pathfinder Days +1 Die to G-Drive Improvement Program
- tenchifew

staplesdex2 · Aug 11, 2022

The result on that Tiberium Detector. :ogles:

Lurking_Badger · Aug 11, 2022

Looks like a bunch of above average rolls with an average of 52.31. Looks like a bunch finished up, so it will be good to see some results. Will be looking forward to a mathpost. Too bad on the electrolysis though. Edit: Turns out it succeeded. Hurray!

staplesdex2 said:
The result on that Tiberium Detector.

There is a lonely Tiberium cluster looking for passionate sentient life in your galaxy. Click now to learn more!

StarJaunter · Aug 11, 2022

At least we found more eezo?

Image · Aug 11, 2022

How many researches do we have to do too Vtib figure out its growth rate and such? A clear prediction on its mutation table would be nice.

Simon_Jester · Aug 11, 2022

Well, it's not under much environmental pressure to mutate; it seems to be coming along nicely from its own point of view. But we're in a position to at least get good growth data.

Derpmind · Aug 11, 2022

@sunrise There should be 3 dice roled for the Atmospheric Containment Shimmer Optimization, not 1.

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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