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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
I'll support a plan that does one instance of grants on Q4 this year, just to keep the people who were confused by us doing glacier mining guessing.
trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
I'm still not really sure why parliament was surprised at us doing even more glacier mining. In that same quarter we also worked on redoubts, outposts, and more red zone harvesting.
Did they expect something else or were they just surprised we did so many varied projects?
Did they expect something else or were they just surprised we did so many varied projects?
Because previous Treasuries had waited on projects that would increase revenue, letting them complete just after reapportionment.
trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
Ah, that makes sense. They expected us to wait until after the new Plan when we would then complete the project in order to keep all the new resources to ourselves.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, I was saying something similar earlier. There are alternative economic models to Capitalism, but regardless we need to choose something that gets the economy up and running. Our current model cannot handle minor goods distribution: its outside the scope of a bureaucracy as large as the GDIs. Frankly I was suprised something as small time as a toy factory was even offered up. It's so low to the ground for the current scope of our department its odd it even came up.
Anyway the point is, the central economic authority for the global economy cannot handle the details on whether a blue zone toy factory should switch production to Dice because Cards are in surplus and are being overproduced. The tiny, daily minutia of production, pricing, and distribution needs managing, but there's too much of it for a central authority to manage. That's where grants, private industry, and/or small scale city departments, whichever one you want to handle it, come in and shine. Start increasing employment, rewarding industriousness etc.
You understand that not every single decision has to go through Granger's desk? That's preview of regional official so many levels of abstraction below, we might as well be on Philadelphia.
The solution for too small scale projects, is to fold them into bigger ones. Not toy factory, but "entertainment goods production chain".
Treasury is bigger than Granger office.
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- Location
- colombia
At the end of the day the thing is that grants gives an steady improvement on goods
This is esentially freeing time and focus for players
Because with an steady uptick of consumer goods we can afford to ignore them while emphasize on things like research
We will sacrifice things for putting fires out this will mean anything non vital (consumer goods) will inevitably suffer
Fix that shit now that we are early on and not when it turns into a major crisis because "me and grandma have been sharing the same toothbrush for a decade" kind of neglect while we pursue another shinies
This is esentially freeing time and focus for players
Because with an steady uptick of consumer goods we can afford to ignore them while emphasize on things like research
We will sacrifice things for putting fires out this will mean anything non vital (consumer goods) will inevitably suffer
Fix that shit now that we are early on and not when it turns into a major crisis because "me and grandma have been sharing the same toothbrush for a decade" kind of neglect while we pursue another shinies
Centrally planned toothbrushes (noncanon)
- Location
- canada
GDI Sonic Toothbrushes
'Introducing the latest cutting edge GDI Sonic Toothbrush, researched and developed by GDI Harmonic Resonance Technologies.
From the same R&D that granted you safety and security by keeping your homes clean of Tiberium, the GDI Sonic Toothbrush guarantees to completely breakdown and keep away 99.99% of all developing tooth plaque from invading your shining teeth.
Funded and brought to you by Dr Granger, who has ensured the costs are minimal for everyone to smile a little brighter everyday.
Buy your GDI Sonic Toothbrush today! For a brighter smile and brighter future!
*Disclaimer: Product not 100% guaranteed to breakdown Tiberium encroachment on your teeth, person, or home at factory built settings. Modification and Usage beyond calibrated setting of 100% power will break the warranty.*'
Not sure how to do omakes, but I felt like I just had to post this ridiculous idea when I imagined how GDI could plan for and produce toothbrushes for the entire world, and then remembered how GDI had their special brand of sonic tech that could go with it.
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- Location
- The Underdark
Usually I would ask that you put a title with it, but aside from that, it is good enough to get a threadmark.
- Location
- canada
Gotcha, will name it pronto.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No, I literally think Granger has to sign off on literally every detail of every work order in the entire GDI.
I'm going to be honest with you, if you continue to take what I say out of context and treat me like an idiot, I'm just going to block you.
All I'm saying is that centralization of the entire global economy is impossible. You reach a point where the bureaucracy to manage all the details of the planning is so large, that the economy cannot function in timely manner, at all. You can have a state controlled economy, but it has to be distributed as I said, literally listed as an option in my comment. You can have bureaus at the city /county/district level for each industry to manage it to some level, but the further from the production and sale of goods you put the managent of the pricing and production levels the slower and more cumbersome the system becomes. That's it. That's all I'm saying.
The economy right now is nonexistent, and the department Dr. Granger runs right now, at this moment, is not structured to be able to run and manage a global economy. Emergency measures required the seizing of all industry and food in order to maintain global war footing, but doing that killed the world economy. It must be restarted at some point, in some form; again that's all I'm saying. That form could be capitalist, or you could propose a functioning state controlled alternative, but whatever that thing is, it will be different than what we have now and it will take effort to do.
That's a long overexplanation of my point. Feel free to disagree with my point, or argue I'm logically wrong in some respect, but please stop acting as if I'm an idiot. Thanks.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm a big fan of the '5 year plan' type quests, mainly because I think economic management games are fun and compelling, and there's some talented writers here that make them very engaging. That said, my understanding is that centrally planned economies have generally failed or underperformed more free market economies because of what Absoloot has mentioned - their inability adjust supply and demand as efficiently as profit does.
Central planning works great, much better than profit even, in tackling crises and infrastructure. However, no matter how many local bureaus you have, you will struggle to predict correctly in ordering a factory to produce x number of screws of a certain measurement, then production will slow down in the areas that needed the screws or be wasted by producing surplus screws. This can have knock on effects, throwing lots of other calculations made by other bureaus out of accuracy, which in turn affects their efficiency. The same thing happens with profit, things being over and under ordered of course, but my understanding is that they can adjust supply more efficiently. The private businesses don't have to wait for the bureaus to make the call, often have the better idea of their own specific need, and those businesses that mess it up consistently will go out of business - a whereas, people making wrong orders an a central planning bureau might not be exposed to so direct a feedback mechanism.
This is, naturally a vast oversimplification of the issues, and there are lots of exceptions and caveats to the above. Profit is also terrible at dealing with 'externalities', such as, y'know, the rights of Yellow Zoners, for eg. But credit where it's due, my understanding is profit does kick central planning's ass in this area.
On the small scale, then, I'm in favour of grants...eventually. its pretty clear by the mechanic of the quest they're not good for us right now. And, certainly, I agree with Shard of Victory's hope that as we build back up we can try to keep mega-profit, politics corrupting corporations starved out of the game.
Central planning works great, much better than profit even, in tackling crises and infrastructure. However, no matter how many local bureaus you have, you will struggle to predict correctly in ordering a factory to produce x number of screws of a certain measurement, then production will slow down in the areas that needed the screws or be wasted by producing surplus screws. This can have knock on effects, throwing lots of other calculations made by other bureaus out of accuracy, which in turn affects their efficiency. The same thing happens with profit, things being over and under ordered of course, but my understanding is that they can adjust supply more efficiently. The private businesses don't have to wait for the bureaus to make the call, often have the better idea of their own specific need, and those businesses that mess it up consistently will go out of business - a whereas, people making wrong orders an a central planning bureau might not be exposed to so direct a feedback mechanism.
This is, naturally a vast oversimplification of the issues, and there are lots of exceptions and caveats to the above. Profit is also terrible at dealing with 'externalities', such as, y'know, the rights of Yellow Zoners, for eg. But credit where it's due, my understanding is profit does kick central planning's ass in this area.
On the small scale, then, I'm in favour of grants...eventually. its pretty clear by the mechanic of the quest they're not good for us right now. And, certainly, I agree with Shard of Victory's hope that as we build back up we can try to keep mega-profit, politics corrupting corporations starved out of the game.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Ehh.
There's a reason we haven't spent much on consumer goods during the current Four Year Plan.
Namely, the part where we're trying to rebuild a war-ravaged industrial base that's literally a year or two from total collapse, on an increasingly uninhabitable planet where that industrial base is by all evidence necessary for continued human survival, while continuing to fight a war against a global terrorist/guerilla faction that wants to tear it all down and repurpose it for their own control.
We still have an alarmingly large number of people living under canvas here, and imminent famine was a problem hitting us at the beginning of the Plan.
This is exactly the kind of situation where all available resources have to be diverted to collective survival priorities, and there is just plain zero left over for things that aren't survival priorities.
...
We are, happily, finally beginning to dig ourselves out of that death pit, at least temporarily. At which point we can seriously consider how to resolve the consumer goods crisis. Grants may be a worthwhile way to do it, just to appease the free-marketeers and make "how to get random shit like toys and toothbrushes made" be Not Our Problem.
But the arguments for keeping things centralized remain the same- we're shorter on resources than we are on dice, and an option that spends 15 Resources/turn for +1 Consumer Goods per turn isn't necessarily the most attractive option on the table for us when we're trying to conserve resources.
No, we won't be able to.
We are minus 28 points in the hole on Consumer Goods. A single round of grants will take seven years to fill the gap. We will come under pressure to resolve consumer goods shortages long before that; right now our only excuse is that we're desperately overstretched trying to restore basic industrial infrastructure and keep tiberium at bay, which we are. Given that the Four Year Plan is on track to more or less hit the tiberium abatement targets, and that with North Boston online we can get the capital goods deficit under control with just one more project, that excuse will not extend into the next plan.
Even if we do put out the grants almost immediately, we will still be under pressure to do more. Either we'd need multiple rounds of grants (it would take at least 30 Resources/turn to fill the Consumer Goods hole within the confines of the next plan that way), or we'd need to commit resources to building consumer goods factories anyway.
Assuming things don't change radically in the next year or so, consumer goods is extremely likely to be pushed on us and a major preoccupation of ours in the next plan, no matter what we do in the immediate present.
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I am not trying to covince anyone, since I'm well avare that my persuative power is less than zero. I attempt to provide oposition, and remind people about less mechanical effects of grants - mainly lining the pockets of people willing and eager to use this money to subvert current democracy and manipulate government to further enrich themselves.
I'm gonna level with you, as one of the more hardcore Team Centrally Planned Toothbrushes partisans out there, I think you're mostly just being annoying and hyperbolic. Nobody's interested in killing capitalism because of Left Twitter talking points, the reason I want to centrally plan the toothbrushes is we can't spare the budget on grants and the budget we do have is better spent directly on toothbrush factories. If you want people to actually listen to you come with some math at plan time, what you're doing now is just going to annoy people into spite-voting against whatever you want.
But you already do that? You are math man, not me. You have posted multiple times how grants are ineficient, you don't need me parroting your talking point. But someone needs to have some sort of ideological backbone and not be detached technocrat. And if people spite-vote, well, that just means that they value their spite that much more than both logical and emotional arguments.
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But is grant givent to this very convinient grandma, or is it given to jam making corporation, which is right there, and unlike grandma has lobbyst to go around and seek governmental money, and is part of massive food conglomerate, like most modern companies?
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I would love this to be true, but hasn't author mentioned FM party being in pockets of corporations? You kinda need to have corportions to be in their pockets. I presumed that they are still there, sustained by billionare wealth.
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