- Location
- colombia
look at 4chan,you only need like 20 years and enough pepe and wojak memes spam
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
look at 4chan,you only need like 20 years and enough pepe and wojak memes spam
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I dunno, being tall, strong, and physically robust aren't really disadvantages in cloak and dagger and socialization. People tend to instinctively defer to taller people; check out how many presidential elections since 1960 (the advent of televised debating) were won by the taller candidate.
Sure, being two meters tall and built like the Hulk would be impractical because you'd be conspicuous and might seem strange, but he could fit a fair amount of augmentation in there.
My working theory is that Kane started out lacking in clear information about some of the things that would be easiest to disseminate, particularly mathematics. It's entirely possible that he always relied on Abel who is a literal supercomputer to do all the math, always, and had no knowledge of mathematics on his own beyond "how to count" and basic arithmetic at most. If you were so intimately connected to an AI that the two of you effectively formed a single person, why would you do your own math?
This is kind of tragic, because pure mathematics would have been some of the easiest information for Kane to disseminate on the primitive world he found himself stranded on. It doesn't upset a lot of religious or ideological applecarts, and it makes it so much easier for the natives to advance technologically if they can use more advanced math to model more complex and sophisticated systems.
Add on top of that Kane probably knowing very little about how to, for example, work metals with hand tools or design better farming implements. He might not even have started out knowing reliable methods for disinfecting a wound or something like that, things we'd consider very basic information to spread if we were isekai's into the Earth's past. Because to Kane, Earth's biology and biochemistry would be alien to him in detail even if the broad outlines ("there are germs of some kind") were familiar.
So he'd wander around the world for a long time, telling stories, being extremely charismatic, familiarizing himself as best he could with the Earth's geography and making sure he hadn't overlooked any enclaves of relatively advanced civilization ("better go check out those two continents in the other hemisphere, just in case, if I can figure out a way to get over there without endangering myself, I'll feel really stupid if it turns out someone over there is on the verge of inventing the steam engine while everyone over here is in the Bronze Age, hm, I wonder if the Chinese have done anything interesting lately, they're pretty sharp, Indonesia actually reminds me a lot of that coalition of thalassocratic city-states that invented all the cool technology eight planets ago now that I think about it..").
And he may have actually had to learn mathematics alongside humanity in order to develop a rigorous command of science. Sure, as we've discussed, he wasn't born as a fully developed 'whole' mind, but if (as many here speculate) his consciousness was transplanted into a human or near-human body at the time of his arrival, then he would have had a fully human brain and a human's natural capacity for learning. He could teach himself, and in the process of teaching himself he might learn to comprehend some of the higher and more esoteric technologies whose records were stored in the Tacitus or any other artifacts he has left of Abel.
Which in turn may explain why he works alongside human scientists on tiberium projects rather than just telling everyone what he needs them to do, and even bothers to kidnap human scientists to do research. Because he still needs their aptitude for some of the mathematical heavy lifting and to "downshift" the advanced alien-knowledge scientific theories he knows into something Nod can implement in practice.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Some types, absolutely. But Kane gives the strong impression of being the 'Cunning Spymaster' more than those. Which means that the ability to fade into the background is a lot more useful as it allows him to be the 'man behind the throne' without people keeping an eye on the tall person that's being quiet. As for the loss in deference and the like being that 'background character' causes...
Well, Kane has, quite frankly, all the charisma. Except maybe the 'Good Guy' and 'Heroic' charisma related talents. Even then, he can probably use most of them, he just can't acquire the capstones for those talent trees.
Kane can very easily create a 'larger than life' impression, and he knows how to wield that impression with true mastery. And he's just as good at seizing attention, which means that being the quiet background character everyone ignored as just there who was quietly advising the leader before suddenly he pulls down his hood and takes the forefront? The impact from that hits a lot harder.
- Location
- The Underdark
The body is basically an Eclipse Phase Splicer sleeve. Because fuck dealing with all the various fucky bits and leftover nonsense in the human genome.
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
It's kinda tragic how Kane apparently spent centuries fighting for human rights and like general shared wealth so everyone had something.
And then tiberium showed up, and what had been a well-intentioned organization fighting for human rights became a fanatical cult-like group easily willing to ignore any human decency in the name of victory.
Though, this is to some degree a making of Kane's own folly, there is a sense of tragic feeling from going from champion human progress to being the guy who commits warcrimes on the regular
And then tiberium showed up, and what had been a well-intentioned organization fighting for human rights became a fanatical cult-like group easily willing to ignore any human decency in the name of victory.
Though, this is to some degree a making of Kane's own folly, there is a sense of tragic feeling from going from champion human progress to being the guy who commits warcrimes on the regular
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- Location
- Africa
no really , intentions and goals matter a great deal here , he championed human right and progress only so that they could advance to the point of building him a space ship not for any high minded ideal like the betterment of all or a creating better world and when tib came down and it was clear that he doesn't have enough time to wait so war crimes ahoy to get his ship done quick and dirty
- Location
- USA
I am so curious how this is going to affect the next couple of turns.
Finding out this stuff about Kane is a BIG deal. Are we going to get a look at the leadership figuring out what to do now? Does this change anything? Do we reach out to Kane? Tell him to stop his nonsense and help, we know his deal now? Preemptively offer to build his damn ship if he stops screwing everything up and joins the team?
Or will we decide this doesn't matter. Kane has tried to mess with humanity since he got here. He caused some of the biggest disasters in history before tiberium showed up and he's only made things worse since then. Does his body count mean peace is impossible and we can't forgive him for his many many crimes?
The next updates are going to be so interesting. I never expected GDI to know this stuff about Kane.
Finding out this stuff about Kane is a BIG deal. Are we going to get a look at the leadership figuring out what to do now? Does this change anything? Do we reach out to Kane? Tell him to stop his nonsense and help, we know his deal now? Preemptively offer to build his damn ship if he stops screwing everything up and joins the team?
Or will we decide this doesn't matter. Kane has tried to mess with humanity since he got here. He caused some of the biggest disasters in history before tiberium showed up and he's only made things worse since then. Does his body count mean peace is impossible and we can't forgive him for his many many crimes?
The next updates are going to be so interesting. I never expected GDI to know this stuff about Kane.
Kane hadn't needed that information for three and a half millennia. He was also very busy at the time, what, with needing to run the Brotherhood, so it's not as if he could browse through the Tacitus at his leisure. There's only so many hours in a day, you know?
For that matter, let us talk a bit about the Tacitus. The Tacitus was severely damaged at some point, with at least one piece torn off prior to TW2. We don't know when, it could be during the fall of the Sarajevo Temple in TW1, but the location and circumstances of the retrieval rather implies that the piece was lost at least centuries earlier. Until 2052, Kane has never held the complete Tacitus since tiberium arrived on Earth. We also know that Kane had to at least partially outsource interpreting and translating the Tacitus to the Forgotten, implying that, regardless of whether he still remembered where to look up everything, he could not read the language it was written in. He was also, at the time of the conflict, not looking for a solution to the whole 'tiberium is eating the world' thing. He was looking for a solution to the whole 'how do I get off this planet' thing. You generally won't find what you aren't looking for, especially when you know what you are looking for and how.
So, no, I do not think Kane necessarily was better at accessing the Tacitus more efficiently and better than GDI for the purposes of drawing technology out of the Tacitus during and prior to TW2. GDI had a Tacitus that was complete and functional, while Kane had to deal with part of the device being missing, which may've included things like the entire data index. GDI could also drop a hundred or more strong research team on the Tacitus and keep them funded and well supplied, whereas Kane had himself and a handful of support staff. GDI, like Kane, had to deal with language issues, but here, again, sheer manpower is helpful.
Finally, GDI might've simply gotten lucky when it came to 'how to make tiberium stop poisoning the atmosphere', and it's not as if GDI didn't progress in its tiberium abatement efforts or technologies, or made no technological strides elsewhere. Hell, GDI managed to abate a Yellow Zone area (Germany) so hard it became a Blue Zone prior to TW3, and was apparently looking to repeat the accomplishment. Nod may be the 'wacky technology' faction, but GDI hasn't exactly stood still. It only looks like it stood still or regressed because the unit selection of C&C3 shifts the mecha towards Nod and returns GDI to the 'modern army' inspired wheeled and tracked vehicles, but we do not know how much technological development has occurred in the background.
So, in short, could Kane have found a solution to the whole 'the atmosphere is about to get toxic for everybody' problem and gone to GDI with 'hi, I have a solution to the whole everybody is about to die problem'? Yes, yes he could've. He didn't. It could've been because he didn't see it as worthwhile, it could've been because he simply didn't run into the technology to do so. He instead went for 'I will get off this planet, even if it kills everybody else'.
So…
Is scrin what the visitors call the bentusaar?
Or are the actual scrin some new race we haven't met yet?
Is scrin what the visitors call the bentusaar?
Or are the actual scrin some new race we haven't met yet?
- Location
- The Underdark
The latter. Scrin are separate. How separate is a question that is only found on the other research pile.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Remember, he's going to want a ship that's big, stuffed to the gills with equipment to maintain and repair itself along with the onboard AI, and equipped with an FTL drive. The ship he needs is probably 2-3 generations of GDI shipyard infrastructure away from the bays we're contemplating for Enterprise.
...That's what you think?
Then why were you after me, when I was making much the same point?
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
That's exactly my opinion. Best case scenario, we kill Kane for good and end the BoN. He deserves to pay for his crimes. Let's hope we can do that and won't have to bargain with him.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- It/Them
Through, as this war (and C&C 4) showed, Nod will be thorn in our side as long as there are parts of humanity that are not part of the whole prosperity for everyone train. Even with Kane working for us or dead.
The idea has escaped its messiah after TW 1.
The idea has escaped its messiah after TW 1.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Ehhh. I'd rather let him live and know how to build a TCN than not let him live and not know how to build a TCN.
- Location
- ?????????
As satisfying as it would be to end his life. It's not worth the continued survival of our species. He has the keys for it and wants to fucking leave. So let's get the thing we need (and then some) and tell this prick to fuck off
So just to clarify:
Nod isn't just a death cult worshipping a cancer rock. Nod is a death cult serving an alien master who is quite happy to sacrifice every single human to build his spaceship.
No wonders Kane hides behind vague concepts of "Ascension" and "Prophecy". His actual plan has nothing to do with anyone except Kane. The Prophet may play around with ideas of human progress and freedom, but when it comes down to it we aren't really people to him.
Fortunately, there were people smart enough not to fall for the obvious lies of a con man.
And then there was the Brotherhood of Nod. A group so gullible or power-hungry that they willingly followed their "saviour" through three lost wars and the deaths of billions.
I may say now, with more certainty than ever before: Nod delanda est
Nod isn't just a death cult worshipping a cancer rock. Nod is a death cult serving an alien master who is quite happy to sacrifice every single human to build his spaceship.
No wonders Kane hides behind vague concepts of "Ascension" and "Prophecy". His actual plan has nothing to do with anyone except Kane. The Prophet may play around with ideas of human progress and freedom, but when it comes down to it we aren't really people to him.
Fortunately, there were people smart enough not to fall for the obvious lies of a con man.
And then there was the Brotherhood of Nod. A group so gullible or power-hungry that they willingly followed their "saviour" through three lost wars and the deaths of billions.
I may say now, with more certainty than ever before: Nod delanda est
I mean he doesn't sound very happy about it, the plan was to basically let humans go through their normal development cycle with a few pushes and corrections and the liquidating everyone to get away as fast as possible came after exhausting several other arguably more effort and time intensive ideas.
- Location
- Africa
that he may have felt bad about it doesn't really make up for the fact that he decided to do away with the human race when he thought it was needed for his own goals
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I'm giving Kane a (partial) pass for his failures, including those of strategy... not for his choices.
Really, my ideal resolution would be to find some way to contact some other Bentusaar so they can stick Kane in whatever equivalent they have for "confined to therapy" for a few millennia.
...And it appears that the Initiative First party has breached the Fourth Wall.
It's a glass houses thing to me.
The GDI deliberately sacrificed billions of people to Tiberium in order to protect their own wealth and comfort, so it's a bit hard to really be all that upset with Nod as a whole.
Sure, we're better now, but we still have a couple decades of bad actions to make up for. And more if you think that the GDI is still responsible for its core members actions pre-tiberium.
The GDI deliberately sacrificed billions of people to Tiberium in order to protect their own wealth and comfort, so it's a bit hard to really be all that upset with Nod as a whole.
Sure, we're better now, but we still have a couple decades of bad actions to make up for. And more if you think that the GDI is still responsible for its core members actions pre-tiberium.
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The Scarecrow has arrived! Let's examine this strawman in more detail so that we can dismiss it properly.
The hand of peace has been extended for the last decade. GDI has taken in tens of millions of Nod refugees. We've given them nice things like housing and medicine and actual food that isn't corpse starch. I have advocated that GDI welcome civilians who escaped from their warlord masters.
This isn't "Initiative First". It's "Militarist". The basic recognition that GDI is a liberal democracy that treats civilians like people, while Nod is a feudal warlord confederation that treats civilians as a source of resources and recruits. They have no legitimacy. Their empty mouth noises are worthy of nothing but contempt, and they have given their lives to a master who planned to murder humanity so that he could build a spaceship.
I find it somewhat odd that you consider any attack on Nod to be "Initiative First". You do realize that we're at war with Nod? That they have been using false refugees to conduct terrorist attacks at grocery stores and refugee conferences? That they are in fact general enemies of humanity whose wars have led directly and indirectly to the deaths of billions?
Next time you reply, please do so with actual substance rather than a meaningless one-line response.
And always remember: Nod delanda est
It would be entirely possible to detonate an LT bomb in, say, Antarctica.
Or you could detonate it in the middle of your own capital, murdering millions upon millions of your most devout followers. And you could provide zero warning to anyone about the arrival of the Scrin, ensuring that Nod was just as unprepared as GDI. I believe that there are some Indian cities annihilated by the Scrin who might have appreciated a chance to prepare.
Nah, let the apes die. As long as Kane gets a spaceship, everyone is happy. Or at least everyone who matters.
GDI did not deliberately spread Tiberium. GDI did not start any of the Tiberium Wars.
GDI did preferentially feed and protect their own citizens during the collapse of the global system. The people sacrificing billions to Tiberium were the cultists deliberately creating a "Tiberium future". Also the people spending their considerable resources on guns rather than Tiberium abatement. We've seen that Nod absolutely can create a Blue Zone, even in their current weakened state. The only thing stopping pre-TWIII Nod from doing the same thing was institutional indifference to the lives of their civilians.
I repeat: There was and is absolutely nothing stopping Nod from improving the lives of their own citizens. They can conduct abatement. They can build hydroponics plants. Nod was a peer to GDI, with vast resources, and they chose to waste those resources on a giant war machine rather than bothering to help their people.
There is no moral equivalency here. No "both sides". At an absolute minimum, GDI tries to look out for the lives and welfare of our own citizens, while Nod happily lets their own people die for Father Kane's Glorious Plan.
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- Location
- Wall Gazing
While I appreciate the reasoning behind wanting to destroy NOD, and agree that it seems the most likely course of action that we will have to take due to Kane and NOD's past actions, I must emphasize that our goal is not the destruction of NOD, nor is it Kane's death. It is to save humanity.
If we could save humanity by destroying NOD and bringing a permanently killing Kane, we would do it. If we could save humanity by leaving NOD alone, and providing Kane a super spaceship to leave in, we would do it. And if we could save humanity by destroying some of NOD, and leaving others alone, we would also do that.
Side note: I think that last one is what we will most likely end up doing. Most of the warlords will be removed as their goals are antithetical to ours, however, we have already brought the Caravanserai to neutralish~, and Qinglian has established a truce, though with the recent meeting by Kane, that may have changed, for better or worse is unknown.
You are correct. Much as I despise the thought, large parts of Nod will probably end up pardoned. Many warlords will get to retire and write memoirs describing their Glorious Battle against the Evil Globalists.
Nod apologism will probably be quite widespread among people who don't want to admit that their ancestors were on the wrong side. Like Confederate apologism in America. We will be rewarded for saving humanity by suffering through future generations of revisionist historians trying to defend the glories of a feudal warlord death cult.
Humanity is worth saving, but sometimes I despair for our species.