Speaking of NOD, Yao Qinglian.
She has been avoiding Regency war so far and given how unfavourably war on the ground been going for NOD (with the sole exception of Stahl) I think she will avoid getting dragged in it.

What do you think she will do after war? She has 2 BZ right next to her, so if GDI decides to attack she's in deep trouble. Krukov is fairly far away and he won't be in any shape to help her. Bintang...honestly I'm not sure she has Ground forces to spare.

On the other hand Qinglian positions herself as PRC successor, rather than NOD warlord. Do you think that She might try to defect from NOD and found her own independent faction like Caravanserai did?
 
Really, setting aside the general NOD population, you should be shifting your anger to the NOD leadership figures. They're the irredeemable ones actually directing the damage. Treating the general population of a large group in absolutes is a bad call.
I don't.

When I say "Nod," I mean the few tens of millions or so (tops) individual people who are fully bought into the system and enforcing it on the several hundred million people who live there. This is about the norm for an aristocratic elite class in history- more than 1% of the population, less than 10%.

Pursuant to this...

As a note people have been banned over the use of "delanda est " so maybe don't do that
Nod, the institution, must be destroyed.

The Nod class, the power structure, must be destroyed.

if Nod wishes to surrender, we can negotiate dismantling Nod the way we dismantle a building, and leaving the individual people who make up Nod alive and well. The individual humans can all live. The institution is oppressive, cruel, an enemy of peace, and an enemy of efforts to save the world from an overpowering global transformation by tiberium.

There is no race of people called "Nod." There is arguably a culture called "Nod," but it is simply "the culture you get to have when the Nod class is in charge." Most citizens who live in the land of Nod don't want that culture, as demonstrated by their penchant for running away from it.

Speaking of NOD, Yao Qinglian.
She has been avoiding Regency war so far and given how unfavourably war on the ground been going for NOD (with the sole exception of Stahl) I think she will avoid getting dragged in it.

What do you think she will do after war? She has 2 BZ right next to her, so if GDI decides to attack she's in deep trouble. Krukov is fairly far away and he won't be in any shape to help her. Bintang...honestly I'm not sure she has Ground forces to spare.

On the other hand Qinglian positions herself as PRC successor, rather than NOD warlord. Do you think that She might try to defect from NOD and found her own independent faction like Caravanserai did?
I'd be de-fucking-lighted if she did.

I would expect her to make reforms, but I'd be de-fucking-lighted.
 
It would be nice if you would address that point instead of ignoring it.
And it would be nice if you would stop using a historical call to genocide.

I'm not arguing that Nod has done bad shit, but I am arguing against the position that this is a war to the knife and Nod as a bloc are orcs to be crushed under our boots without hesitation or mercy.
 
Regarding the bit about GDI being a "neoliberal hellhole"- here's something Ithillid said in the Discord about that, back in August '21:
Ithillid said:
My rule of thumb is that there should be generally four levels to any story.
How do you tell the story to an elementary student, a high school student, a college student, and a graduate student.
At an elementary level, it is the story that the Initiative is a benevolent caring entity that has made things better for everyone.

Closer to the Graduate level, the Initiative is the neoliberal bootheel of the end of history, and has effectively metastasized its way into being a world government by seizing whatever ounce of power was being offered up.
Because that is the thing. Command and Conquer is grey on black.
But it is grey on black done right.

The system has its failures, the ideals will never be as true as you might like. There are abuses and terrible people holding power that should never be in the hands of anybody. There are hate groups and gangs and every other flaw and failing of human society across the Initiative.
But at the same time. "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."
So.
GDI is very much not perfect - it's a surveillance state to make Orwell's Big Brother jealous, it engages in deliberate, targeted cultural and social engineering, its authority comes from being there, as the nations that created it collapsed. For decades, it focused on holding what it had, not trying to reach out to those in need elsewhere. (Sometimes, that lack of effort was matched by a lack of ability. But only sometimes.)

GDI is trying to do better now, and mostly succeeding. But there is also a large element of truth to the joke that the best thing that happened to GDI in the past 2 decades was Kane destroying Philadelphia station with the previous leadership on it. Was it a hellhole? Not really. But it was profoundly inequitable, and quite willing to be unjust to preserve the power of those at the top.

And.
All that about GDI?
It is irrelevant how bad NOD is, when making that analysis. Saying "NOD is terrible" is a valid statement, but it is not a valid argument against "GDI has done terrible things."
 
I'd like to point out that Kane ringing the dinner bell for Scrin is the only reason we have even a shadow of a chance to create a bootleg TCN to save Earth without the Tacitus (and frankly, even with the Tacitus I'm guessing that Scrin tech is essential in some level to create a proper TCN). Looting Scrin tech is essential to create the ability to save Earth from its inevitable future as a ball of tiberium which will eventually detonate, as well as buying time to evacuate if that is your goal.

And plus the Scrin was lurking in the Sol system anyways waiting for the chance to strike.

It would have been much better if the LT bomb had been detonated in some place well away from population centers. But if your goal is to save Earth as well as humanity someone would have had to detonate the LT bomb to lure the Scrin mining expedition in to beat them up as tech loot pinatas.
 
Last edited:
2. could we increase the quality of life in the MARV shantytowns and fortify them some more similar to the fortress towns

2: I imagine that's part of Tib Harvesting/MARV Hub building, but mostly the people going to a MARV hub only live there for a very short time, before they're sent on for refugee processing and a chance to live in a Blue Zone, or at least safer Green Zone territory.

Regarding this; GDI has reworked the design of MARV hubs in YZ areas so that new MARV hubs in YZ areas include space and easy access to supporting infrastructure for any shanty towns that spring up, along with protocols regarding the refugees there. This is a lesson learned from the SA YZ MARV hub that was build.

GDI citizens, from long experience, are mostly well primed to blame all acts of Nod terrorism on Nod, rather than on GDI.

Notably, so are Nod citizens. Nod on Nod sectarian violence is common in this setting, with Kane literally executing your superior while he is briefing you in TW1, the Hassan-Slavic conflict early in the Nod campaign in TW2, the Firestorm Crisis is literally a Nod on Nod conflict in the Nod campaign, TW3 saw Kilian Qatar framed for treason on account of her irreverence for Kane and the main conflict of TW4 is a religious schism in Nod.

Mehretu murdering members of the Caravanserai in a terrorist campaign is basically completely expected behaviour. I would not be surprised to find out that if there are no major GDI offensives happening, Nod actually inflicts the most military casualties on Nod, rather than exchanges between Nod and GDI.
 
And it would be nice if you would stop using a historical call to genocide.

I'm not arguing that Nod has done bad shit, but I am arguing against the position that this is a war to the knife and Nod as a bloc are orcs to be crushed under our boots without hesitation or mercy.

As Simon_Jester already pointed out, institutions are not people. I could say "Imperial Japan delanda est" or "Nazi Germany delanda est" just as easily. And you're still deflecting. I made actual arguments, and you have addressed precisely none of them.

Eastern Europe is gone. There are millions of people in Nod territory who don't have clean water. Red Zones are advancing steadily, driving refugees before them. The world is dying. Yes, indeed, Nod has done a great deal of "bad shit", and they have shown every sign that they will continue doing that "bad shit" until we "crush them beneath our boots".

If they don't want us to do that, they can follow the Caravanserai's example. Or they can just pull a Qinglian and stop getting in our way as we continue saving the planet. But we are in no way obligated to spare declared enemies of GDI and humanity. We certainly aren't obligated to stop fighting just because they are now losing.

We have treated Nod prisoners of war properly, which is more than Reynaldo or Mehretu or Gideon can say. We have sought to avoid civilian casualties, rather than sending terrorists to target medical personnel caring for refugees. We have waged war as humanely as we could, but we are at war and we will remain at war until Nod is destroyed. Factions who wish to abandon the death cult are welcome to jump ship.

I wrote a canonized sidestory discussing the value of mercy. That sidestory also showed that Nod is drowning in blood. What do you think happened to the people who stood against the cult when Nod was first rising? What do you think happens to "Enemies of the Messiah" now?

"Orcs" is a strawman. Nod's soldiers- especially the leadership- are frequently war criminals and constantly enemies of peace and democracy. In a just world, they would be standing in front of a tribunal. Instead, they're probably going to end up in nice apartments.

Regarding the bit about GDI being a "neoliberal hellhole"- here's something Ithillid said in the Discord about that, back in August '21:

So.
GDI is very much not perfect - it's a surveillance state to make Orwell's Big Brother jealous, it engages in deliberate, targeted cultural and social engineering, its authority comes from being there, as the nations that created it collapsed. For decades, it focused on holding what it had, not trying to reach out to those in need elsewhere. (Sometimes, that lack of effort was matched by a lack of ability. But only sometimes.)

GDI is trying to do better now, and mostly succeeding. But there is also a large element of truth to the joke that the best thing that happened to GDI in the past 2 decades was Kane destroying Philadelphia station with the previous leadership on it. Was it a hellhole? Not really. But it was profoundly inequitable, and quite willing to be unjust to preserve the power of those at the top.

And.
All that about GDI?
It is irrelevant how bad NOD is, when making that analysis. Saying "NOD is terrible" is a valid statement, but it is not a valid argument against "GDI has done terrible things."

I generally agree with this.

Pre-Granger GDI behaved like a "normal" nation-state; it took care of its citizens, and it generally didn't care about everyone else. Civilian deaths outside their territory were Not Their Problem, and collateral damage in military operations was a minor detail. I'm not trying to make pre-Granger GDI out to be some kind of benevolent hegemon.

It's just that Nod is vantablack, not dark grey. We're gradually changing from a selfish nation-state that turns away refugees to an open-handed world government that views ourselves as responsible for everyone; Nod, at best, is gradually changing from a death cult into warlord states that use Kane's ideology as a justification for ongoing military rule.

Nod must be destroyed because there is absolutely no place for theocratic warlord states in the world we seek to create. Especially theocratic warlord states with a long history of trying to kill the planet.
 
Eastern Europe is gone.

Y'know, it's funny since GDI is the organization that fired the ion cannon blast that triggered the liquid Tiberium explosion.

Now, because our (player) perspective is "nearly-omniscient observer", we know the back story behind that.

I bet the "average Joe on the street" does not, and probably neither does anyone who wasn't a part of Kane's inner circle at the time his plan was formulated. And I doubt they're going to be talking to anyone about it.
 
Last edited:
Y'know, it's funny since GDI is the organization that fired the ion cannon blast that triggered the liquid Tiberium explosion.

Now, because our (player) perspective is "nearly-omniscient observer", we know the back story behind that.

I bet the "average Joe on the street" does not, and probably neither does anyone who wasn't a part of Kane's inner circle at the time his plan was formulated. And I doubt they're going to be talking to anyone about it.
The average Joe on the street knows that ion cannon shots don't normally cause tiberium explosions that spread across half a continent.

Boyle was put on very public trial and I'm pretty sure the decision to hit Temple Prime with an ion cannon was discussed. It's not clear to me whether the justification for Boyle's execution was the Temple Prime explosion, the attempt to deploy a liquid tiberium bomb to Italy, or both, but somewhere in that process, I suspect the average Joe realized that the Temple Prime explosion played out the way it did entirely because Kane stashed massive amounts of liquid tiberium under the temple, which realistically means he planned it.

Is this known, no...

...But we know it, and we shouldn't act like we don't.
 
With regards to the PR war. While people can be stupid, it is typically because they tend to draw connections where they might not be any. Who were the losers of the Regency War? Gideon and the Western Australian NOD were the big ones, with the more minor ones being Krukov, Reynaldo, Mondragon and Mehretu. The ones who where for the most part uninvolved where Al-Isfahani, NOD India, and Qinglian. The warlords who showed the most success were Stahl and Bintang. The Caravanserai were fighting Mehretu without overt GDI involvement.

A big question on people's minds is going to be if the GDI was conducting a world wide offensive, why didn't they attack Al-Isfahani, NOD India, and Qinglian? Qinglian especially since its known that her forces aren't very well equipped and there are three Blue Zones very close by to her territory. Similar questions can be asked about Al-Isfahani and NOD India. Its not as though the Plan goals are top secret, people knew that Karachi was very much on the table. The answer people are going to come up with to both of these questions is the same, they didn't directly attack the GDI.

With regards to the Caravanserai vs Mehretu, even if people don't really believe in or trust the truce between GDI and the Caravanserai over Mecca, they would believe that the GDI would let NOD fight itself and focus on other matters. With Mehretu and the Caravanserai fighting it makes no sense for the GDI to step in and complicate the situation and potentially get the two NOD factions to make peace. That the GDI is actually actively ignoring Caravanserai activities and discretely aiding them with ISR missions doesn't apply.

So who has the GDI attacked? Stahl, Gideon, and Krukov were all attacked because they'd attacked blue zones, planned cities, and MARV hubs in the past. Even Reynaldo had the raids on Glacier Mines in the Alps. This narrative makes logical sense. The GDI attacked those who had attacked it in the recent past. It was not successful with all of its attacks, but it was highly successful with the attacks on those who'd tried to do the most damage to the GDI (Gideon and Krukov).

But what about Bintang? She had conducted various attacks against the GDI's convoys and holdings in Western Australia. Well the GDI couldn't really reach her core territory in Indonesia and the Philippines as it didn't have the naval capacity to take the fight to her. But it could (and did) attack and more or less destroy her vassals in the Western Australian NOD. Which neatly explains why the GDI fully took over that region, when it hasn't done that to any other yellow zone.

This is the explanation that counter's any NOD PR about the GDI imperialists coming to take your land and tiberium. Which is, they aren't coming to do that, they are coming to punish attacks on the GDI. If you don't attack the GDI the GDI won't attack you and that was the point behind Steel Vanguard, to punish those who attacked the GDI.

Yes this bit of sophistry ignores how focused parts of the thread were on Karachi, which completely invalidates the above conclusion. But that conclusion fits the available information for the layman who is not privy to all the minute details and debates and neatly explains why the Regency War happened from their point of view.
 
A big question on people's minds is going to be if the GDI was conducting a world wide offensive, why didn't they attack Al-Isfahani, NOD India, and Qinglian? Qinglian especially since its known that her forces aren't very well equipped and there are three Blue Zones very close by to her territory. Similar questions can be asked about Al-Isfahani and NOD India. Its not as though the Plan goals are top secret, people knew that Karachi was very much on the table. The answer people are going to come up with to both of these questions is the same, they didn't directly attack the GDI.
Al-Isfahani is relatively hard for GDI to get at- we're in no position to stage offensives out of BZ-18. India, likewise; the only lines of attack are amphibious and we had our hands full.

I hope, mind you, that Nod's intelligence on our top-level decision-making wasn't so wide-open that they specifically expect Karachi. Though they can read a map and know we must be tempted to try something like that.

This is the explanation that counter's any NOD PR about the GDI imperialists coming to take your land and tiberium. Which is, they aren't coming to do that, they are coming to punish attacks on the GDI. If you don't attack the GDI the GDI won't attack you and that was the point behind Steel Vanguard, to punish those who attacked the GDI.

Yes this bit of sophistry ignores how focused parts of the thread were on Karachi, which completely invalidates the above conclusion. But that conclusion fits the available information for the layman who is not privy to all the minute details and debates and neatly explains why the Regency War happened from their point of view.
This does make sense.
 
Karachi in the next plan will then also support that thesis, as India did put effort into taking over the Himalaya BZ, while Krukov and his supporters cut the logistical support links.

It's not GDI coming over to conquer, necessarily. It's GDI coming over to secure its territory.
 
Al-Isfahani is relatively hard for GDI to get at- we're in no position to stage offensives out of BZ-18. India, likewise; the only lines of attack are amphibious and we had our hands full.

I hope, mind you, that Nod's intelligence on our top-level decision-making wasn't so wide-open that they specifically expect Karachi. Though they can read a map and know we must be tempted to try something like that.

I doubt they knew/know to expect Eastern Paris specifically, but like you say, they can read a map. If I was NOD India, I'd be very concerned about the region between Miani Hor and the Gulf of Kutch. That is the region closest to GDI presence in Oman. The other potential target point would be Sri Lanka, but I'd be less concerned about that thanks to the relative proximity of Bintang's stomping grounds to the east. But those two places would be where I'd expect an amphibious invasion.

I might focus more on Sri Lanka, just because it would be more difficult to get supplies there if GDI attacked in force, but I'd prepare defenses in both locations.

The wild third option is an attack down from the Tibetian Plateau, which is something I would not be expecting at all because of how crazy the logistics issues the GDI would suffer supporting an offensive from that direction. If/when the GDI completes suborbital shuttles and OSRCT, I'd be more concerned about an attack from that direction, but until that point, my big concern is a naval invasion.

But moving back to the coastline from Miani Hor to the Gulf of Kutch, determining exactly where the GDI would choose to land is difficult, because it depends on the underlying motives of the GDI. If the GDI wanted to get a FOB as close to NOD India's heartland as possible for raiding or disruption attacks, while still being supported by BZ-4 the landing zone would favor the Gulf of Kutch, likely targeting Jamnagar. If they wanted a base to attack Red Zone 3 as part of their counter Tiberium efforts they'd favor Miani Hor potentially going as far west as Kund Malir and the Hingol River. Where such a base would be more for defense for future GDI Red Zone Glacier Mines then to act as a FOB. Then there is the Indus River if the focus is to reach North and link up with BZ-18.

Or it could be a combination of those goals. Karachi and area between the Hub and Malir Rivers makes an excellent target if the goal is both BZ-18 and Tiberium Mitigation, it is right on the border with RZ-3 and perfectly positioned to project influence over the mouth of the Indus, even though its a lot further north of the mouth of the river itself. The coastline of the Kutch district is a good target for a balance between relieving BZ-18 and attacking NOD India's heartland.

As Nod India I'd be most concerned about a potential attack against my home infrastructure and factories. Specifically I'd be very worried about how vulnerable Mumbai is on the western coast of India directly across the Arabian Sea from Oman. It is what I'd have nightmares about waking up too, a GDI amphibious invasion of the second largest city in India, and one of the top contenders for my center of power. The other being Delhi which is pretty close to BZ-18 and as a result I might want to keep my capital away from that potential threat, plus with the mouth of the Ganges terminating in a Red Zone Glacier, Delhi might have dwindled in importance comparatively.

In any event I, as NOD India, would be extremely worried about a Bintang Tokyo raid style attack on Mumbai by the GDI. Something not intending to take territory, just intending to do as much damage as possible. Something similar to our first attack on Jacksonville in our fight against Gideon. That is where I must focus my coastal defensive efforts, because losing Mumbai would probably be devastating. This is not to say I wouldn't have defenses further north from Karachi to Surat (and south in and around Sri Lanka), but my worst case scenario would be a direct attack on Mumbai.

A long winded way of saying, as NOD India, unless I had very accurate intel on exactly where the GDI was planning to attack I'd have to focus my defensive efforts where it would hurt the most if they hit. And that place is most likely Mumbai, not Karachi, or wherever I think the GDI is more likely to attack. Simply because I couldn't take the risk.
 
A long winded way of saying, as NOD India, unless I had very accurate intel on exactly where the GDI was planning to attack I'd have to focus my defensive efforts where it would hurt the most if they hit. And that place is most likely Mumbai, not Karachi, or wherever I think the GDI is more likely to attack. Simply because I couldn't take the risk.
I'd also point out the plans for YZ-1 West, YZ-1 South, and Colombo Planned City. The MARV hubs and planned city could point to a need to protect further south, since Colombo would start working to cut India from Bintang, secure more of the Indian Ocean, and threaten eastern India. The MARV hubs help secure the coastline out to Colombo, making it easier to get supplies out to the Planned City (also threaten the heartland with the MARV fleets).

Karachi Planned City I'm not really pointing out, because the reasoning for a Karachi area goal matches up well with the Planned City. Colombo and the MARV hubs, by comparison....
 
I'd also point out the plans for YZ-1 West, YZ-1 South, and Colombo Planned City. The MARV hubs and planned city could point to a need to protect further south, since Colombo would start working to cut India from Bintang, secure more of the Indian Ocean, and threaten eastern India. The MARV hubs help secure the coastline out to Colombo, making it easier to get supplies out to the Planned City (also threaten the heartland with the MARV fleets).

Karachi Planned City I'm not really pointing out, because the reasoning for a Karachi area goal matches up well with the Planned City. Colombo and the MARV hubs, by comparison....

True, the YZ-1 Marvs, plus Colombo and the Marv Hubs of BZ-18, RZ-4 South and RZ-5 South all very much isolate India from the rest of NOD and threaten its heartlands. You'll note especially that YZ-1 West is right on the Gulf of Kutch and Colombo is the modern capital of Sri Lanka, two places I talked a lot about in my previous post. YZ-1 South neatly brackets Mumbai when combined with YZ-1 West. The Marv hubs for BZ-18, YZ-1 East and RZ-4 South block off reinforcement from the North. While RZ-5 South acts as a tripwire for Bintang if she decides to go though the Malacca Strait. There are more potential Hubs in Africa (YZ-16, YZ-17, and RZ-2 South) to hep disrupt reinforcement from there, but with the Caravanserai's recent conquests I am less concerned about that direction.

The scenario NOD India must have prepared for is the naval invasion of India and if they are doing that they must at least consider the chance of an attack on the second most populous city in the subcontinent and the chance that the GDI would be wiling to conduct scorched earth ops. The GDI hasn't conducted such operations, yet. Because of the whole reciprocity thing, but there is a reason why we really want SADN up and running. That reason isn't because we think NOD will keep to the unofficial agreement to not open up canned sunshine over civilian cities. On the other hand, NOD knows that if we could, we'd happily use the space force's smite button on every viable target, so they must be ready for such a scenario.
 
As Nod India I'd be most concerned about a potential attack against my home infrastructure and factories. Specifically I'd be very worried about how vulnerable Mumbai is on the western coast of India directly across the Arabian Sea from Oman. It is what I'd have nightmares about waking up too, a GDI amphibious invasion of the second largest city in India, and one of the top contenders for my center of power. The other being Delhi which is pretty close to BZ-18 and as a result I might want to keep my capital away from that potential threat, plus with the mouth of the Ganges terminating in a Red Zone Glacier, Delhi might have dwindled in importance comparatively.
It is likely that Nod India has shifted its centers of power and manufacturing for exactly those reasons. After all, if you're going to build entirely new infrastructure to produce entirely new and exotic technologies anyway, you might as well put it somewhere it's not in immediate easy range of an enemy coastal descent.

A long winded way of saying, as NOD India, unless I had very accurate intel on exactly where the GDI was planning to attack I'd have to focus my defensive efforts where it would hurt the most if they hit. And that place is most likely Mumbai, not Karachi, or wherever I think the GDI is more likely to attack. Simply because I couldn't take the risk.
Another 'nother way to put it is, India actually has quite a few targets stretched over a wide stretch of coast that it wants to defend, and not a lot of places along its western coast where a GDI amphibious invasion securing a beachhead would be 'harmless,' aside from places GDI would be stupid to attack in the first place.

Thus, their coastal defenses must perforce be stretched at least kinda thin. Which is not to say that they are weak, but they cannot be at their strongest everywhere, nor can they simply concentrate everything they have along two or three fifty-kilometer stretches and then laugh at our stupidity if we try to land anywhere else.

Also, resources spent maintaining a standing army that never actually fights anyone for a decade or more at a time are resources not spent on economy and industry. Since at least part of India's "hat" is having real production capacity and infrastructure more so than some of the other warlords, and being much more like an actual government that just happens to praise Kane rather than a bunch of fanatical loosely affiliated warlords... Well, they're probably under some degree of pressure to economize, that limits just how thick they can slather those fortifications on.
 
Last edited:
India's coastal defenses are likely at least partially dependent on mobile, rapid response forces kept in reserve, and with an effective transportation network to provide enough routes and capacity to move those reinforcements to the needed positions.

Of course, that does imply that if GDI manages to break out, they've got a nice transportation network to coopt.
 
It is likely that Nod India has shifted its centers of power and manufacturing for exactly those reasons. After all, if you're going to build entirely new infrastructure to produce entirely new and exotic technologies anyway, you might as well put it somewhere it's not in immediate easy range of an enemy coastal descent.

I was more thinking they'd try to hide their military factories and strongpoints amongst their population to prevent the GDI from just bombarding them from orbit. Despite NOD propaganda the GDI doesn't care to exterminate everyone in the Yellow Zones. It also has the effect of putting military forces and supplies right in and around key cities, the local populations of which would complicate any GDI advance. Its part of the whole reason urban combat is the worst. Plus putting factories where the people are is cheaper and more efficient then putting them elsewhere. Thats not to say they haven't hidden factory complexes all over India, but not taking advantage of such a large population pool is just wasteful.

Also, resources spent maintaining a standing army that never actually fights anyone for a decade or more at a time are resources not spent on economy and industry. Since at least part of India's "hat" is having real production capacity and infrastructure more so than some of the other warlords, and being much more like an actual government that just happens to praise Kane rather than a bunch of fanatical loosely affiliated warlords... Well, they're probably under some degree of pressure to economize, that limits just how thick they can slather those fortifications on.
India's coastal defenses are likely at least partially dependent on mobile, rapid response forces kept in reserve, and with an effective transportation network to provide enough routes and capacity to move those reinforcements to the needed positions.

Of course, that does imply that if GDI manages to break out, they've got a nice transportation network to coopt.

I think @Hazard has hit the nail on the head here. There is a lot of coast for NOD India to cover, and without a pressing GDI threat its hard to justify a massive army to man coastal fortifications along the entire Indian coast. Its not that the won't have coastal forts, but a lot of the coast is likely just covered by watchtowers to keep an eye on things, with more heavy coastal forts at key locations (Mumbai, the mouth of the Indus, at the mouth of the gulf of Kutch, Goa, along the Gulf of Mannar and the Adams bridge, Surat, and Kochi to name a few). It makes reasonable sense given the enormity of the task of defending India's coast that they have some deal with Bintang or a sizable fleet of their own to isolate any amphibious landing from supply and reinforcement while their mobile army is concentrated to crush the landing force.
 
Also expect things like AShM complexes and the like. India will be expecting that it can beat back a GDI probing attack on the coast, if not necessarily immediately, but while the local defenses stall until reinforcements move in, those reinforcements are not expected to throw back GDI on their own, because India probably respects GDI's competence and military production capabilities.

They'll accept that GDI won't commit without being certain of having a good chance of making it work, which means supplies. Lots of supplies. In ships. Damn close to the shores.

In other words, fat targets for the AShMs to sink in great numbers to deplete the attacker's supply situation while ever more force is concentrated on the beachhead to push GDI back into the surf. It'll be a key component for Nod India when it comes to their coastal defense strategies. If they are not fools, they will have plans for break outs from the beachheads and past the first line defenses, too, but that is a different form of defense to perform.
 
I was more thinking they'd try to hide their military factories and strongpoints amongst their population to prevent the GDI from just bombarding them from orbit. Despite NOD propaganda the GDI doesn't care to exterminate everyone in the Yellow Zones. It also has the effect of putting military forces and supplies right in and around key cities, the local populations of which would complicate any GDI advance. Its part of the whole reason urban combat is the worst. Plus putting factories where the people are is cheaper and more efficient then putting them elsewhere. Thats not to say they haven't hidden factory complexes all over India, but not taking advantage of such a large population pool is just wasteful.
Yeah, but India is really big and has a lot of sizeable population centers. They have plenty of choices. And quite frankly, since GDI does have at least some capability to pierce cloaking and some HUMINT capability, it's probably a good idea not to concentrate everything you have in a handful of locations, because this greatly narrows down the area GDI has to search to find your critical factories.

You can only hide something so well if it's restricted to be within a ten thousand square kilometer area of your millions of square kilometers of land, and if it happens to be the ten thousand square kilometers the enemy would search first.
 
Here I am looking at the discussion about the NOD, and I am glad that we have a quest about the Ministry of Economy and not the government, and the players cannot even theoretically vote the way the muffler tells them in their hearts.
 
Also expect things like AShM complexes and the like. India will be expecting that it can beat back a GDI probing attack on the coast, if not necessarily immediately, but while the local defenses stall until reinforcements move in, those reinforcements are not expected to throw back GDI on their own, because India probably respects GDI's competence and military production capabilities.

They'll accept that GDI won't commit without being certain of having a good chance of making it work, which means supplies. Lots of supplies. In ships. Damn close to the shores.

In other words, fat targets for the AShMs to sink in great numbers to deplete the attacker's supply situation while ever more force is concentrated on the beachhead to push GDI back into the surf. It'll be a key component for Nod India when it comes to their coastal defense strategies. If they are not fools, they will have plans for break outs from the beachheads and past the first line defenses, too, but that is a different form of defense to perform.
See, this is why I want to finish the advanced laser refits. Because arming as many of our ships with really good antimissile lasers, plus advanced ECCM and stealth disruption for any cloaked attack aircraft or missiles, makes it a LOT more likely that we can fend off enemy attacks.

It's also why I want to see the second wave of frigates hit the water before Karachi, because the frigates, as I understand it from @Ithillid , are all going to have the advanced lasers, and having them around as escorts will also help thin out those very predictable antiship missile salvoes.

I don't want too many of our ships going the way of the Moskva in real life.

Here I am looking at the discussion about the NOD, and I am glad that we have a quest about the Ministry of Economy and not the government, and the players cannot even theoretically vote the way the muffler tells them in their hearts.
Well the one thing we CAN do is try to foresee what kinds of forces our enemies will have, and fund procurement programs that are designed to counter the foreseeable threats.

This is something we've sometimes done well and sometimes done poorly. The decision to lean into artillery production was probably a good one, for instance, but (as is widely agreed) we kind of dropped the ball on making sure the Navy was adequately prepared for war against Nod commerce raiders.
 
I think Colombo would be a heavily contested spot, since if we got a foothold there and slapped down the Planned City, that opens up a lot of Indian coastline and SW Pacific area to GDI operations that used to be essentially "safe" waters/coast.

I don't want too many of our ships going the way of the Moskva in real life.
Fortunately, none of our ships will pull a Moskva for two simple reasons.

1. We have trained, competent crews.
2. We actually fucking maintain our ships and systems and supply them.

We've already lost ships to AShM fire regardless of launch source, but our ships will at least make a very serious attempt to stop the missiles first.
 
Fortunately, none of our ships will pull a Moskva for two simple reasons.

1. We have trained, competent crews.
2. We actually fucking maintain our ships and systems and supply them.

We've already lost ships to AShM fire regardless of launch source, but our ships will at least make a very serious attempt to stop the missiles first.
Details. My point is that sailing around a large warship in range of enemy antiship missies is risky, and especially in a threat environment where the enemy has a lot to throw at us (Nod India's resources along these lines are far greater than IRL Ukraine's)... Well, missiles are gonna be coming in a lot. You need good defenses. That's my reason for wanting the lasers and really wanting to get the refit rolling in 2061 if possible, and done before Karachi in any case.
 
Back
Top