- Location
- The Underdark
Lol, Lmao.
This is what being "done with orbital infrastructure looks like.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
This is what being "done with orbital infrastructure looks like.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The way the Station phases used to work is that each Phase was double the progress needed of the last. Originally, Phase 1 was 0/100, then 200, 400, 800, and 1,600. (Total: 3,100) Phase 1 was eventually discounted down by 15 points to 0/85, making the progression 85, 170, 340, 680, and 1,360. (Total: 2,635) But in Q3 2058, we did the following SCED generated project:
While we've still yet to see the future Satelite projects that the hull paneling gave a discount to, the 'marginal' cost reduction to stations was a flat -5 progress to each phase, for a total savings of 25 points per Station: 80, 165, 335, 675, and 1355 for a total of 2,610. Rather than each phase doubling the progress of the previous, each phase is now 2*x+5 more progress. 80*2+5=165, 165*2+5=355, and so on. Under this new formula, if we build the Station Bay and the Leopard II Factory for a 15 point discount, we get: 65*2+5= 135, then 275, 555, and 1,115, for a total of 2,145. Which is all a very round-about way of explaining how you were already correct and had the right numbers all along.
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I think that there's a theoretical synergy for every bay combination, with Stations/Satellites being a bit more obscure but probably skewing towards making satellites that are huge and have manning requirements and are functionally tiny stations. Likewise the military goods/station combo boosts the OSRCT station capacity and supply lines, while the Fusion/G-drive shipyards produce some truly outrageous behemoth ships, with names like Monolith and Potemkin.
Fusion ships are more short-haul high-thrust vessels in our current regime, while G-drive ships can't land on planetary bodys or accelerate quickly, but have higher maximum speed due to being unencumbered by reaction mass. So a fusion drive shipyard would let us build the 100,000 ton Behemoth class cargo rockets, while the G-drive yard lets us build the Connestoga class deep-space freighter. However, there have been some hints that advanced microgravity materials would allow our G-drive performance to creep up-not to 1g acceleration, but closer to .8 perhaps. Awfully close to Venus' .9g surface gravity.
- Location
- Wall Gazing
Doesn't that not count the +5 dice bonus to stations Seo gets?
And therefore the average dice output would be 50.5 + 26 + 5 = 81.5. 2610/81.5 = 31.84. 2145/81.5 = 26.14.
Thank you for laying it out like this. I appreciate it. I was fairly certain I hadn't misremembered how the cost reductions were supposed to work.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Whoops. It's been so long since we've done a (Station) project that I totally forgot about that. Thanks for correcting me.
- Location
- New England
Well, we have lasers and now we're hopefully going to get balls (organized sports). Therefore, it is time to institute LASERBALL, the ultimate 1980s future sport.
[X] Plan Canned Beans + Scrin Research
[X] Plan Canned Beans + Scrin Research
I don't think the Station Bay will ever lose usefulness. That's like saying that eventually we'll stop making stations. I think the bigger question is whether we'll use lots of gdrive ships to do stuff before we get a gdrive shipyard option in orbital. I would say the same for fusion, but we have Moon mines, etc so that one will be more immediately useful.
So I'm fairly okay with station + fusion, and then would debate over the last bay. Would lean towards advanced materials for narrative options. Though I guess to some extent depends on what options we get once Shala and Columbia are done. It might be better to just straight up build a fusion shipyard station or gdrive shipyard station rather than build a bay, then have the shipyard station option "not long" afterwards.
Hm. I'd probably be okay with Station + Satellite + Adv Mat. Even if we get "done" with earth orbit satellites... I feel like probes could count (or does a propulsion system discount them?
), but regardless there's no reason we can't build sats in Earth orbit and cargo them to other planets for deploying. Adv Mat has narrative options, Mil Bay would be an acceptable alternate.
Again, it feels like it'd really depend on what our station options become once Shala and Columbia are done.
--
Also, I'd love it if we could get Orbital Cleanup done this Plan. Like in Q4 2061, I mean. Both for unlocking Orbital Power Stations, and for the -20 progress needed for Earth Orbit sats.
So I'm fairly okay with station + fusion, and then would debate over the last bay. Would lean towards advanced materials for narrative options. Though I guess to some extent depends on what options we get once Shala and Columbia are done. It might be better to just straight up build a fusion shipyard station or gdrive shipyard station rather than build a bay, then have the shipyard station option "not long" afterwards.
Hm. I'd probably be okay with Station + Satellite + Adv Mat. Even if we get "done" with earth orbit satellites... I feel like probes could count (or does a propulsion system discount them?
), but regardless there's no reason we can't build sats in Earth orbit and cargo them to other planets for deploying. Adv Mat has narrative options, Mil Bay would be an acceptable alternate.Again, it feels like it'd really depend on what our station options become once Shala and Columbia are done.
--
Also, I'd love it if we could get Orbital Cleanup done this Plan. Like in Q4 2061, I mean. Both for unlocking Orbital Power Stations, and for the -20 progress needed for Earth Orbit sats.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
Lol, Lmao.
This is what being "done with orbital infrastructure looks like.
Yes!
Space Rings are cool!
- Location
- USA
I'm very in favor of both shipyards.
We get attacked by nod ufos or scrin again we're going to want as much expertise in space ships as we can get when space combat goes live.
We get attacked by nod ufos or scrin again we're going to want as much expertise in space ships as we can get when space combat goes live.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As the hibernating space person I support taking both shipyards both for the short, medium and long term benefits of having cool and fast space ships, including making the Gdrive better, bringing us ever closer to the magic number of 1g+ needed to just lift off straight out of Earths gravity well.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, eventually, we will get a 1g+ Gdrive developed. At which point Gdrive ships will start to replace Fusion ships. The only question is how long all of that will take, which to some extent depends on how many Gdrive-related projects we do.
I doubt we'll ever fully replace Fusion drives, simply because they don't require noticeable amounts of STUs, while Gdrive ships do.
Which also informs my preferred bay mix: Station, Fusion, Gdrive, *in that order*. Because the fusion ships will likely significantly speed up development of Lunar mines/cities, and to a lesser degree provide long-haul shipping for non-urgent deliveries to Mars/Venus/Asteroid mines.
And I want to get a *lot* of lunar development done.
Nah, that's "a good start."Lol, Lmao.
This is what being "done with orbital infrastructure looks like.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It'll also avoid the even worse problem of "ten slightly different or even significantly different plans with different bay combos, and we only vote on them on the strength of the bay combos, feeling unable to assess their merits in other ways because it's too important to get the right bay combo."
That's the scenario I'm trying to avoid, personally.
Some favor a more simultaneous construction approach for Shala and Columbia even up through Phases 4+5.
Also, I will observe that the Leopard II yard isn't quite us speedrunning to the other two 'crown jewel' stations, because the Leopard IIs' impact on the stations' completion time, while significant, probably won't offset the cost of building the yard. However, there are other good reasons to do the yard. First, it DOES impact the stations, partially offsetting the cost of building it. And it will of course continue to have impact after the stations are done. Furthermore, it's a production facility, so its full impact will not be felt until it's had years to churn out shuttlecraft. Some of those benefits might be pretty good ("a fourth phase of Suborbital Shuttles becomes available"), so having an unlock for them sooner rather than later may pay off, potentially even outside the Orbital category.
I for one support the yard, even if it isn't quite mechanically optimal for the spreadsheet-eer approach of "how do we minimize time to completion on Shala and Columbia?"
...Read other people's posts. The station bay literally saves time. We can get Stationbay+Shala+Columbia done faster, in terms of total Progress cost.
Furthermore, it's very rare for us to be given "do by halfway through the Plan" election targets. And even if we were... We have six Orbital dice. We will be able to afford to fund them starting from very early in the current Plan. These stations only cost about thirty dice a pop to do from start to finish. Going full blast we can finish one before Election Day 2063 quite easily, and if we really need to, be well on our way to a second, even with little or no Free dice investment and a 400-point project done in advance.
The bonus explicitly does double for each successive step. The reason in-game is that being able to design the initial basic skeleton of the station more efficiently also makes it easier to expand the station later. Doing things right now makes it billions and billions of dollars cheaper to finish up properly later, in other words.
To be fair, one of the things we want in the long-term timeframe is "a shitload of really big space stations," a goal the station bay is well suited to helping us with.
For diversification's sake, we're probably going to want to build Lagrange orbital habitats and lunar colonies and probably also Mars colonies too.
My personal preference is to finish it in 2062Q1.
Starbound seems to be putting in work to make sure we get the full value of the moon mining income in the Fourth Four Year Plan. That's going to be very helpful to us, but they're doing it on the understanding that we'll hold up our end of the bargain by using that income to fund space operations. So I want to make damn sure that we fully activate all our Orbital dice in 2062Q1.
At the same time, doing so will be expensive, no way around that... which makes it a good time to do something we were already going to have to do eventually anyway, and take the 10 R/die cleanup option that actively returns some investment to us in the form of R in the 2062Q2 budget.
Sure, in theory we could do that cleanup in 2061Q4... but that's when we'll have actual money and I'll be wanting to spend any surplus Orbital dice on things like the Leopard II yard. Or the station bay, well... I'd want to do that except the part where we may apparently have a big vote coming up at Reapportionment time and it might be bad form to lock in one of the bays before then. Not sure about that, but definitely happy with the idea of doing a bunch of work on the Leopard II yard if we can.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Don't try and threaten me with a good time.Lol, Lmao.
This is what being "done with orbital infrastructure looks like.
- Location
- USA
I'm fine with it.
The second place plan is six votes behind and does pretty much the same thing except doing the captured nod airship instead of scrin dice.
The second place plan is six votes behind and does pretty much the same thing except doing the captured nod airship instead of scrin dice.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
As author of the second-running candidate, I basically already conceded a few pages back. While I don't feel like Derpmind's variant is necessarily strictly superior to mine, it's not strictly worse, and it has one very real and significant advantage over mine that a lot of people care about. Votes since Derpmind's variant was released have overwhelmingly been in favor of her version of the plan, and the only way I can see to reverse things would be to basically make my plan into her plan, giving her the win by default.
So go for it. Imma go run an errand and see how things shape out when I get back.
- Pronouns
- He/his/him
[X] Plan Canned Beans + Scrin Research
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year, Carrier Focus
[X] Plan: All The Research!
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year, Carrier Focus
[X] Plan: All The Research!
Oh boy oh boy
I'm ready to see how the freeze dried food fails again
Vote closed
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Well, glad I wake up early for no reason and happened to see this!
- Location
- The Underdark
Using this one instead.
[X] Plan Canned Beans + Scrin Research
-[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 92/200 (1 Die, 30 R) (42% chance)
-[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 3+4+5) 72/480 (5 Dice, 50 R) (Phase 3, 99% chance of Phase 4, 67% chance of Phase 5)
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 8) 67/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (9% chance)
-[X] Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr 85/320 (2 Dice, 100 R) (8% chance)
-[X] Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Deployment 0/600 (1 Die, 20 R) (1/7.5 median)
-[X] Civilian Support Expansion (Phase 1) 0/250 (4 Dice, 40 R) (86% chance)
-[X] Security Review
-[X] Freeze Dried Food Plants 151/200 (1 Die, 20 R) (91% chance)
-[X] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 1) 0/150 (2 Dice, 30 R) (63% chance)
-[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 2+3) 38/150 (3 Dice, 30 R) (99% chance of Phase 2, 18% chance of Phase 3)
-[X] Harvesting Tendril Deployment (Phase 1) 0/600 (8 Dice, 240 R) (95% chance)
-[X] Tiberium Harvesting Claws Development 0/80 (1 Die, 15 R) (80% chance, with Seo bonus)
-[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 5) 102/1535 (3 Dice, 60 R) (3/17.5 median)
-[X] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1+2) 45/265 (2 Dice, 40 R) (96.5% chance of Phase 1, 12% chance of Phase 2)
-[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 2) 276/310 (1 Die, 20 R) (98% chance)
-[X] Professional Sports Programs 0/250 (1 Die, 10R) (1/3 median)
-[X] Scrin Research Initiatives 0/400 (4 Dice, 120 R) (18% chance)
-[X] Skywatch Telescope System 64/95 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Hallucinogen Countermeasures Development 0/40 (1 Die, 15 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Railgun Munitions Development 38/60 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Deployment 0/225 (2 Dice, 20 R) (9.5% chance)
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Nagoya) 171/240 (1 Die, 20 R) (73% chance)
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Dublin) 0/240 (2 Dice, 40 R) (4% chance)
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (New York) 0/240 (2 Dice, 40 R) (4% chance)
-[X] Conduct Economic Census DC 100/150/200/250 (4+E Dice) (93% chance of DC 250, 99% chance of DC 200)
-[X] Security Review L+CL (1 Die) (85% chance)
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