WANT? No, our primary objective is already completed, our neighbors are not slavers anymore.
Wouldn't expect you to remember. It was part of a conversation mixing both Maretonia and Yeti talk from back in January. The important thing is that, as I said, you guys actually start telling me when you don't get the reference or don't remember what I am referring to when I say to tell me. It is infinitely important that I know what you guys don't know so that I can amend that to keep the conversation clear, as opposed to you guys ignoring the part where I say to tell me if you guys don't remember and only responding to whatever's in the latest post(s).
Not underselling. I didn't address that point at all because it wasn't a point brought up in the past for me to have said something about it previously. People brought up things like "split the land with the Yaks and/or Equestria" that I argued against in the past but the "boxing them in" was never a major argument point until now. Addressing that point would be part of the post of dedicated points responding to new arguments that I mentioned at the bottom of that post.
1) Well yeah. I have said multiple times in the past that actually dealing with the Yeti situation in full is to be put after Maretonia. Heck, the latest time I said it was literally four days ago.
Didn't think that needed to be repeated given how recent it was, but here we are.
I made an argument that acknowledges that we have plenty of other stuff and says why we would want more and I'd appreciate if you guys actually argued or tried to refute that instead if throwing a fact I already acknowledged back into my face.
If this is your response, I don't really think you understand what a casus belli is. By definition, a casus belli is a face-saving reason to go to war, not just for the domestic scene but also in the international scene. My saying "if we have a casus belli" is literally saying if we have a reason to make it viewed as a "just war" because the term "casus belli" literally originates from a theory of war proposing on how one can wage an honorable war that is seen as justified in all spheres.
I don't disagree that you've acknowledged it but I do think the big thing it seems like folks might have different ideas what asserting hegemony over Maretonia might entail. Rebuilding and modernizing it, laying track, building air fields, and repairing ports to interconnect it with the Empire, repatriating anyone who wants to go back, recultivating the wastelands Pegicles has left, Roam itself, maybe rebuilding or copying Mare-a-thon. I think that's the better part of a decade right there, but I think we have commitments even beyond that- if Maretonia is a protectorate or annexed or what have you- we have an obligation to defend it. And that includes against the literal nation of dragons to the south- I don't think we could exactly fortify the borders and keep a bunch of super heavy fliers out, but we need some kind of strong garrison in Maretonia and a better idea of just what threat we're actually facing to the south. Was 14 dragons a major force? Some idle and listless dragons who collectively decided to raid like a minor caribou warband writ large? Does this mean these are the smaller and weaker dragons ousted and looking for foreign plunder since no wealth is available at home (again like the Caribou)?
Establishing at the minimum an autonomous protectorate (even if it never gets annexed) is a necessity to keep it in our sphere of influence. An independent Maretonia has enough resources, land, and potential population to truly boom into a rival economy and culture once they begin modernizing and recovering from their civil war. That's why a large chunk of my previously-stated plans for integrating Maretonia explicitly listed ways in which to tie them to us culturally and economically so that even if we do the "protectorate for now but referendum later" path, they would still be inexorably tied to us in a way they wouldn't be in an independent recovery.
My point is that while a casus Belli is a "justification" for the war, nations can accept a casus belli "because international politics" while still privately thinking it was barely more than an excuse".
Very well then. Apologies. Thank you for clearing up your part, and I shall do the same in apologizing if I was too forward in saying my own part.
It would, yes. The point I have been getting at is that I have consistently been using the word to refer to situations in which it is accepted internationally, not just excused out of pragmatism as you seem to have been taking my definition. Basically, I am pointing out that part of your criticism was redundant because my definition of what qualifies as a casus belli inherently takes your criticisms into account.
no problem. I get why it might be frustrating. Just... try to not assume malice before just carelessness or forgetfulnes.
yeah, we obviously have been using different definitions. Funny how I was actually using the more cynical definition between the two of us, seeing as one my complaints is that I found some of your points too "cinycal" for my tastes
I did want to mention that we didn't sign a deal with the Guard remnants. We signed a deal with the Guard before it got blown up, and that deal is now void. The terms of that deal were that the Guard not attack the Abolitionists (and consider recognizing them as a legitimate faction, though they didn't have to declare it openly) and allow Imperial humanitarian aid and light Imperial weaponry and training aid to the Abolitionists, in return for not stepping in to Maretonia.
To be fair to both of us, pretty sure that's because most of my points aren't actually cynical. My goals are a lot more ruthless and explicitly self-serving compared to many of you wanting to be friends for its own sake and give up comparative and absolute advantages, but not once have I actually denied that any of the people are friends.yeah, we obviously have been using different definitions. Funny how I was actually using the more cynical definition between the two of us, seeing as one my complaints is that I found some of your points too "cinycal" for my tastes
definitely this. We don't really have any agreement still standing with the current Maretonian factions, or at least not officially.
Not that I've been pushing it THAT much. I mean, I repeatedly stated it's my favourite option, but I don't really argue that much against the other options. But you're right about my reasoning, and that's in many ways a very cynical/pragmatic approach to religion.Likewise, you too have had your own singular take that I find quite cynical. You continue to push the Crystal Heart religion to become the de facto state religion fueled in large part by the benefits it provides. In contrast, I have pushed against said views for the sake of maintaining our balance of religions we promised the empire towards. I'd say "disregarding every other religion unless it personally benefits you" is quite a cynical take while my "disregard potential benefits for the sake of upholding our ideals and agreements" is quite idealistic, wouldn't you say?
)I understand your definitions of rival and enemy, and they make a lot of sense... But I'm not sure about you defining Neighpon as "not a rival" by your own standards.
Wasn't assuming the dragons, though the zebras are possible. The focus of that was this:
My idea is that they are currently exploring a lot more proactively than us, and a lot farther along on the water. Chances are they will make contact with distant factions across the oceans before we do. That could be the zebras, or it could be some other unknown island country or set of factions on an unknown continent beyond Zebrica and our current continent.
These are both shit examples
I'm not personally expecting them to explore that much further than us, and I mostly don't expect there to be island nations close to us... though that's mostly because we just don't have any exploration option other than "far south-dragon" and "far east-zebras".
Once again, you miss the point. I didn't say "close to us." You did. I explicitly said far away interests.
mh.. ok on my misunderstanding the "interest" bit and forgetting the mentions of neighponese actually exploring farther. I think it was them that met the emerald dogs first, now that I think about it, even as we then kind of overtook them to meet the Caribou first.
He's active over on his Spacebattles-Account again, so he's not completely gone or anything. I guess he just took a break from SV.
Oh good because I was freaking out because you know that not visiting the site often in a long while leads to thinking the worse has happen
He's busy, has another quest on SB, and this quest's pretty old at this point. He's come back after months-long hiatuses and older quests typically take longer than newer quests to update, so I'm not worried. Questor will be back when he's back, and I trust he'll say something if he ever decides to end the quest entirely.
If it does end I hope someone else adopts it to continue
This is ignoring the British attempts to conquer Afghanistan, or the Kurds who even now are a problem in Iraq and Turkey. Or the fact that Rome still occasionally had to deal with significant amounts of tribal brigandage in the Alps. I never said mountainous tribal regions are unconquerable, I said they're some of the hardest regions to conquer. And considering that Ethiopia lasted as long as it did and Afghanistan consistently forced the British to pour lives and treasure trying to hold it doesn't undermine my point at all.
