Gladly. Thank you for showing interest. I am always willing to help along those who don't know and are wiling to keep themselves up-to-date for the sake of the argument, even if you do ultimately disagree.


No problem. It's understandable. I just want people to start taking up my offers to ask when they don't know or are unclear of what I am referencing, or use the links* I used to provide when basing my argument on top of something else I've previously said

How to Colonize: The basis of the whole thing was that colonization would have to come in phases. It would start with establishing a fortified port town along the north shore. This would serve as the primary base of the colony in its opening years as well as the focal point of the later phases' network. It is believed with what we currently know of the Yetis that a moderate staffing should be enough to hold and repel against any raiders. Furthermore, technology developed during the Winter War would be utilized - and possibly even improved upon with more funding and current access to runes - to keep the heat in the area as well as grow crops (to supplement any fish caught, of course, since griffons are either carnivorous or omnivorous but ponies and yaks might not be).

The next phase would be the railroad system. With a combination of railway development and dynamite to carve paths through the mountains we could create a satellite system of forts interspersed throughout the country and mountainside - think of the tributaries of a river - to better exert a force of control without having to occupy every square inch of the countryside. It will also come in handy with future border control, as well as protecting any mining towns that we develop in the future.

The final phase would be the development of commercial industries and trade. Anything mined can be shipped by the railway to the port, the port could be expanded to a large dock to handle being the central area of the colony, and an airport can be built in the future for airship shipping once we better develop commercial airships within a few years. This would create a healthy local economy as well as further incentivize settlement.

Why to Colonize: There are multiple benefits to colonizing the area. First and foremost, the area will likely be host to many valuable minerals, gemstones, and strategic resources as mountainsides are wont to be. We will continue to be in high demand for strategic resources like iron, coal copper, tin, and orichalcum due to the sheer size of our military. With one of the world's largest militaries (and possibly THE world's largest military depending on what's in the unknown), it will take a lot of metals and coal to properly staff said armies and the logistics for their equipment, rations, and the factories supplying them. Colonizing the area will do a lot to continue feeding the expansion of our war machine beyond what our base resources provide, and our growing civilian industry as well as we continue to advance into our own Industrial Age.

On the minerals and gemstones part, even though we are currently rich in such things, there can never be too many for trade. Developing a near monopoly on such goods for this part of the world (especially with the rich cultural heritage we are developing that could influence fashion) would do us a lot of good on boosting trade income as well as furthering our growing domestic market for it as our middle class begins to build. I had another thing I thought of to put here as well, but seeing as that is based on newly confirmed information and wasn't something I said in previous posts, I will leave it out for now.

I also believe the region would do well to become a new hub for trade, especially with Equestria. Ports along the coast could provide a new trade route along the northern coastline, as well as give refueling stations as we transition over to steam-based ships. Likewise, having an airport on the western side of the continent would do wonders for future shipping and make important transportation convenient, simple, and quick. Commercial airships - which I have argued I wish to keep all airships as owned by the government due to security risks - will take another decade at least before they become truly viable on a mass scale, but even a few early on will be amazing.

Next, continued expansion would do well to better assert the Empire's continental hegemony. Equestria could easily be a rival - though a friendly one - should they ever break from their isolationism and the Yaks, though allies, are stubborn and prideful and unlikely to bow consistently to Imperial guidance. We need to take every opportunity for expansion and growth that we can to make sure we maintain our spot as the preeminent power within our sphere of influence. The world is still young, though stabilizing, so these are rare opportunities that we won't have later on.

Finally, I said before that I do not believe the Yetis will be such a powerful force. They do not appear to be particularly advanced, and more likely are a society of raiders. I believe that we have enough force, organization, and discipline to hold the areas for colonization without heavy effort or expense, even before we actively make some kind of campaign against the Yetis. Equestria only suffers from them as much as they have because they do not appear to have any professional army except for maybe their royal guard, and likely relies on local militia to protect individual villages as would be common for their decentralized, feudalistic model of governance.

I have more than this to say, of course, as there is more to respond to and offer counterarguments against, but this is the summary of everything I've said in previous conversations over the matter. I wish to save new arguments building atop these arguments for a separate, dedicated post. More will also be added or changed to it as we learn more information in recon.

Either way, that is the summary of everything I have said previously, unless I missed something. I hope this is helpful and thank you once more for taking the initiative to ask! :)

*I stopped providing them because it was obvious people never used them even when I made it evident that they had to be read to understand what I am getting at. Instead, I just wait for someone to ask because then I know they will read it due to having shown the initiative and interest
Huh now I want to do the colonization of storm country to
 
I mean, that sort of distributed network is exceedingly vulnerable to rail way lines being cut, or trains being ambushed. You don't want to be shifting military forces through a rail line in hostile territory either as that leaves those forces incredibly vulnerable.

Orichalcum is certainly enough to damage tracks before you factor in how strong yetis are, the constant risk of avalanches or rockslides, and monsters that could attack trains.

We don't need more territory if we're committed to developing and taking at least part of Maretonia, and like others have mentioned- if the only goods we're super interested from them is Orichalcum, we can probably mostly get away with a fortified trade port. If our circumstances drastically change then maybe, but we still have a lot of clay to invest in
 
I mean, that sort of distributed network is exceedingly vulnerable to rail way lines being cut, or trains being ambushed. You don't want to be shifting military forces through a rail line in hostile territory either as that leaves those forces incredibly vulnerable.

Orichalcum is certainly enough to damage tracks before you factor in how strong yetis are, the constant risk of avalanches or rockslides, and monsters that could attack trains.

We don't need more territory if we're committed to developing and taking at least part of Maretonia, and like others have mentioned- if the only goods we're super interested from them is Orichalcum, we can probably mostly get away with a fortified trade port. If our circumstances drastically change then maybe, but we still have a lot of clay to invest in
In regards to the rail cutting, yeah, that would def be a problem. For the whole attacking the trains? not so much, train move really fast, and have a lot of mass.

also sure, we don't need more land, but more land is better, as is more materials.

Edit: as for the avalanches? there are these things called plow trains that are used for clearing snow, and we could set off them before the train comes through
 
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I mean, that sort of distributed network is exceedingly vulnerable to rail way lines being cut, or trains being ambushed. You don't want to be shifting military forces through a rail line in hostile territory either as that leaves those forces incredibly vulnerable.

Orichalcum is certainly enough to damage tracks before you factor in how strong yetis are, the constant risk of avalanches or rockslides, and monsters that could attack trains.

We don't need more territory if we're committed to developing and taking at least part of Maretonia, and like others have mentioned- if the only goods we're super interested from them is Orichalcum, we can probably mostly get away with a fortified trade port. If our circumstances drastically change then maybe, but we still have a lot of clay to invest in
A) I literally mentioned that it's a satellite system of forts. Have you ever heard of the wargame term, "Zone of Control"? It is like that, with said forts being placed in a planned manner to defend specific lines and towns within each zone of control as well as keep track of any apparent movement in a region.

2) I also didn't mention the only interest being orichalcum. Heck, my previous arguments didn't even list it as a central plank, just one interesting thing to mine over a LOT MORE good things we can extract from the area.

3) More territory is always good if we can get it with a sufficient casus belli.
 
In regards to the rail cutting, yeah, that would def be a problem. For the whole attacking the trains? not so much, train move really fast, and have a lot of mass.

also sure, we don't need more land, but more land is better, as is more materials.

Edit: as for the avalanches? there are these things called plow trains that are used for clearing snow, and we could set off them before the train comes through
The fact that trains move really fast only makes it easier to attack by a savvy adversary. A mage with ice or few other specialties could for instance shift or alter the rails, turning the whole transport into a high speed coffin and slam it to the side of a mountain.

And may I ask if you live in a snowy area? Because let me as a simple Finn tell you: you can't brute force snow if it reaches mass quantities. An avalanche will have a high chance to stop a train on its tracks in the type of terrain that is Yeti land.
 
The fact that trains move really fast only makes it easier to attack by a savvy adversary. A mage with ice or few other specialties could for instance shift or alter the rails, turning the whole transport into a high speed coffin and slam it to the side of a mountain.

And may I ask if you live in a snowy area? Because let me as a simple Finn tell you: you can't brute force snow if it reaches mass quantities. An avalanche will have a high chance to stop a train on its tracks in the type of terrain that is Yeti land.
I live in northern Canada, we have these huge snow blower trains, as well as fixed plow trains that clear tracks.

point for the train derailment though, idk how to counter that off the top of my head
 
Keeping a close eye on the tracks would probably help. Which would be facilitated by having forts along the line to protect it as happened to already be stated in the idea...
 
In regards to the rail cutting, yeah, that would def be a problem. For the whole attacking the trains? not so much, train move really fast, and have a lot of mass.

also sure, we don't need more land, but more land is better, as is more materials.

Edit: as for the avalanches? there are these things called plow trains that are used for clearing snow, and we could set off them before the train comes through
That doesn't help if there's obstacles on the tracks, the aforementioned avalanches/rockslides, and a full sized wyvern (given it's probably going to be the size of 2 story house) probably is strong and fast enough to land on and derail a train.

And those plow trains require a lot of engines to push aside the snow (which are going to be some of the most expensive parts) and move slowly to boot. To say nothing of the fact in such a scenario, there could be ambushers hiding along the rail with no one the wiser.

A) I literally mentioned that it's a satellite system of forts. Have you ever heard of the wargame term, "Zone of Control"? It is like that, with said forts being placed in a planned manner to defend specific lines and towns within each zone of control as well as keep track of any apparent movement in a region.

2) I also didn't mention the only interest being orichalcum. Heck, my previous arguments didn't even list it as a central plank, just one interesting thing to mine over a LOT MORE good things we can extract from the area.

3) More territory is always good if we can get it with a sufficient casus belli.
  1. It's rough, hilly and mountainous terrain in constant winter storms. Against natives with a good lay of the land, we can't count on our forts being impossible to bypass. Likewise, we wouldn't even know all the best passes to garrison and control without extensive geographic surveys (which will be a total pain in the ass) or local support (which if we have, we have better options, like trade and playing kingmaker).
  2. Like what? Iron and other mundane ores Gryphus is overflowing with and would be way more expensive to ship across hostile land to a port that needs to ship it around a continent? Like amber or hardwood? Apart from possible luxury materials that may or may not exist there, we only have one valuable and rare enough good to make the immense markup of shipping it across the known world worth it. Orichalcum aside we have no reason to assume Storm country is laden with resources we want. What we're going to want as our industry fires up now is captive markets, that's primarily going to be Equestria and Canterbury.
  3. Land requires effort and resources to cultivate and exploit. The fundamental nature of the industrial revolution is that it opens up more and more ways to exploit the heartland. The fundamental nature of any claims in Maretonia is that we have to massively invest in rebuilding it. Maretonia is rich, valuable, contiguous land that is ruined and depopulated. Building a string of forts in the middle of nowhere, laying tracks, and shipping whole railing stock across a continent to support it will not be cheap or easy. You can claim the storm country is worth claiming, that's arguable. You can claim any land is worth claiming, that's pretty questionable. You can't claim that colonizing the storm country will be cheap and that we lack commitments elsewhere, that's laughable.
Keeping a close eye on the tracks would probably help. Which would be facilitated by having forts along the line to protect it as happened to already be stated in the idea...
You can't consistently watch the entire length of track in hostile territory, and for every fort you complicate your logistics more and more. Even with the techniques we developed during the Winter War, feeding dozens of forts, mining towns, and a fortified port won't be cheap.

Moreover, visualize these fortified railways leading to interior colonies and back to a port- we've literally set ourselves up to have to maximize the surface area we're defending, and if a single fort were to fall- everything past it is suddenly at risk of being cut off and encircled. At worst, we lose everything beyond that, at best we have to fight a field battle to reopen the route and hold it in the face of hostile natives now aware of how fragile our routes actually are.
 
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You can't consistently watch the entire length of track in hostile territory, and for every fort you complicate your logistics more and more. Even with the techniques we developed during the Winter War, feeding dozens of forts, mining towns, and a fortified port won't be cheap.

Moreover, visualize these fortified railways leading to interior colonies and back to a port- we've literally set ourselves up to have to maximize the surface area we're defending, and if a single fort were to fall- everything past it is suddenly at risk of being cut off and encircled. At worst, we lose everything beyond that, at best we have to fight a field battle to reopen the route and hold it in the face of hostile natives now aware of how fragile our routes actually are.
Yeah...
Thinking a bit and your points...
Well, no idea the amount of forts needed to try and protect the rail, which may create it's own problems due to the forts themselves needing supplies, and then there is indeed the many points of possible failure.
Honestly, sticking to lots of airships are likely far less problematic at least to start with...
 
Well, there are mountains everywhere, we can grow stuff underground, the Diamond Dogs are good diggers, and we already need to dig into them for ore; Why don't we make our settlements inside the mountains? Have most of the track underground and have specific locations to have air vents. It makes things more expensive, but prevents skirmishes with the Yetis.

This is all speculation though. We haven't actually explored Storm Country or know the political situation. For all we know, they don't even have a central government or the ones that we met were outliers. Better to get more information before we make long plans based on assumptions.
 
Honestly, sticking to lots of airships are likely far less problematic at least to start with...
We do not have a lot of airships, building airships is currently expensive, and I do not foresee it being viable for a few years to have a beginner's fleet of airships.

Either way, regardless of what problems there may be (which I believe is still being vastly overstated and that Karagus is doing that exact bad faith thing I mentioned that made me write that summary in the first place of people ignoring and not engaging against what I have actually written), that does not devalue the great amount of potential colonizing the area can bring the Empire.
 
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We do not have a lot of airships, building airships is currently expensive, and I do not foresee it being viable for a few years to have a beginner's fleet of airships.

Either way, regardless of what problems there may be (which I believe is still being vastly overstated and that Karagus is doing that exact bad faith thing I mentioned that made me write that summary in the first place of people ignoring and not engaging against what I have actually written), that does not devalue the great amount of potential colonizing the area can bring the Empire.
You can't claim I'm arguing in bad faith while talking around me and refusing to point to examples.

Staying out of the storm countries is not some hill I plan on dying on, but the facts are; mountainous tribal regions were some of the hardest regions to conquer and colonize in our world. Ethiopia (which lasted into the 20th century) and Afghanistan both come to mind. This is before we factor in a more hostile environment, one the magical ponies were convinced was trying to kill them, megafauna predators in nearly the same ballpark as dragons, hostile natives- and yetis implies they're pretty dangerous in their own right. I don't think your plan is wholly unworkable, but it's risky, sounds expensive, and requires us to build rails and forts in territory that by it's very nature is hostile and not fully controlled at that point.

If a window of opportunity appears, and we don't have more pressing concerns, than I might be all for it, but as it stands- we're looking to at least get some piece of the pie of Maretonia- and that's going to require extensive investment. Likewise, we have the dragons to the south of them to consider, and more potential trading partners in the Far East.
 
If one of our allies wants to make a play for it we can help them, but I'd rather not box in the yaks. I'd prefer they take storm country and sell us more orichalcum. This gives them an area to develop while they figure out the whole navy thing, and we don't have to deal with the headache of having their turf between big chunks of ours.
 
Umm again storm country just a lot of snow and Rocks from the description not really a place were a lot of people can live in more importantly want to live in.
 
Thats i said best case scenario would finding some diomond dog tribe and turning them into a proper under- kingdom than just having to ocupying the place ourselves. Its unconfortable to the Yaks too so they wouldnt be in a hurry to colonize it.
Societal inertia is the moto of yakyakstain aftherall
 
I believe that Gryphus actually has the second largest economy in the world right now (based on a QM post.) I don't know who has the first, but we need to meet them to make more money. The government created the first central bank, likely in the world, in order for the economy to keep growing. We've literally changed the whole economic landscape of several nations just so they have better economies for more trade.

If this was the game Civilization, I would expect Gryphus to have the world's largest army but win through an economic victory. I guess this is what you get when your first emperor is a merchant.
I remember that post, and to be clear the QM said that we have either the first or second economy (in the known world).

Basically, it's either US or Equestria.

We have the industry and a strong central authority, and plenty of resources for our mechanization, and plenty of land to expand in. We're also expanding our magic resources.

On the other hand, Equestria has two demi-goddesses as rulers, as much popular approval as WE do (if not more) from the masses, and ALL THE MAGIC.

It's hard to say which of the two has it better, but it's a close comparison as of right now, at least in terms of economy.
no complaints here. It's a simple, but well thought plan. I admit I didn't remember this one being posted before, by the way, or at least not put this clearly.

I can't deny the advantages we'd get out of it. You're obviously right on those.

I think you might be underselling a few disadvantages, mostly on the diplomatic level (we'd be expanding closer to Equestria, basically surrounding the Yaks, and expansionists empires are ALWAYS seen with suspicion by their neighbours), and as I already mentioned I dislike a bit your more cynical approach to politics and to our goals (mostly because I think they're a bit too harsh for this setting).

I'm not necessarily against the colonization effort, though I'd first want to see

1)How Maretonia ends up going. If we, say, annex it all, we just won't have the resources needed for this kind of expansion in the neart future

2)The result of yeti scouting and exploration. We met ONE group of raiders/enslavers/miners. We don't know if they're all like this (probably), how many there are, how united/dangerous/developed they are, if they are willing to talk... and if we were to attack or steal their land without a good justification (and no, a small enslaved group is not enough to send an army in my opinion, not now that they're free and back home at least) that might lose us some of our prestige and excellent reputation.



...so, short version, I'll wait and see, and while I respect your plan, I find it a bit too cynical/pragmatic (depends on the point of view) for my taste... though it's not out of the question, depending on future developments.

2) I also didn't mention the only interest being orichalcum. Heck, my previous arguments didn't even list it as a central plank, just one interesting thing to mine over a LOT MORE good things we can extract from the area.
To be fair, Orichalcum is by far the most important. We HAVE metals and gems (Gryphus, Crystal Protectorate), probably enough for current and near-future needs (and we can likely build more mines in our territories), while Orichalcum is explicitly much rarer, and we EXPLICITLY don't have enough for all we'd want to do (weapons and armours with higher concentrations of it, black steel balls, maybe inhibitors for magic-using prisoners, and whatever we can come up with.

3) More territory is always good if we can get it with a sufficient casus belli.
the casus belli is good to justify the operation, but international reputation is also important. Right now we basically don't have enemies except the Yeti (they barely count) and the changeling (and that's a very special case). Seeming too eager to expand our borders, especially with violence, could make our neighbours nervous. That's why, while stormland colony IS an option to me, it's not one I'd want to take too quickly. Especially because the land is, well, BAD land for farming (so it will require a lot of imported food), and all the mountains mean that digging tunnels and establishing roads and/or railways will NOT be easy, quick or cheap.

Orichalcum is really the only thing that justifies the expenses, and that's because it's basically a military priority (with potential for industry/research in the future I suppose, but right now it's really only for weapons, armours and maybe restraints).

Further buildup in gryphus and Maretonia (if we get it) it's just easier.
 
I mean culturally speaking, Gryphus is the largest and most powerful nation in the world from most of the known world's perspective. We *might* be able to infer the Equestrians have an economy around the same size, but the rest of the world plugged into our economy and trade can't really see that- especially since most trade with Equestria will probably be through our cargo airships.

We see a bit of this with the growing prestige of our nation, and the fact pretty much everyone in Maretonia is pushing for some kind of monarchy. Not only is it what they are all familiar with, but from their perspective the most effective, capable, and benign government is a militaristic enlightened absolute monarchy. As far as most of the world is concerned, our preeminence is established. Our army was a pivotal part of crushing Pegicles- and with seemingly minimal effort slew both him and a legendary monster, our goods grace every market, and we're the most diplomatically involved nation in the world. We need to start considering how we keep this preeminence without being considered the primary threat to be defended against. If we do claim control over all Maretonia, we really need to tread carefully in how everyone else sees us. We'll have control over what seems like a third of the known world, the fastest growing economy, and the world's strongest military- chasing after more clay could easily be painted in a bad light.
 
Do we WANT to deal with MORE of maretonia's bullshit?

I say we keep the borders open, keep an eye on them so they don't start backsliding, and refocus on getting the Emerald Dogs and Caribou into a good place. Maybe expand trade with the minotaurs. Not to mention Shoring up the Yak-Storm border and getting a permanent embassy in Yakyakistan. Also there's the whole changeling/cantebury situation.

Specifically we need to sort out how we want that to break down, I'm interested in how they create grail knights.
 
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